Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Rules Questions => Topic started by: Alsterschwan on July 24, 2016, 12:58:25 pm
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Have difficulties with "either" when a tie with Triumphal Arch: Dictionary translate that to "both", so 7xA, 4xB, 4xC = 2*4*3 = 24, but Wiki says 12, indicating 1*4*3. Which is correct?
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Have difficulties with "either" when a tie with Triumphal Arch: Dictionary translate that to "both", so 7xA, 4xB, 4xC = 2*4*3 = 24, but Wiki says 12, indicating 1*4*3. Which is correct?
Either doesn't mean "both at the same time", it means "both are equivalent / acceptable". You pick either one of the cards in a tie.
"Should I drive the red car or the blue car?"
"You can drive either car."
This doesn't result in you driving both cars at once :P
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so 7xA, 4xB, 4xC = 2*4*3 = 24, but Wiki says 12, indicating 1*4*3.
I'm really confused by this.
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"both are equivalent / acceptable". You pick either one of the cards in a tie.
Thanks a lot
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so 7xA, 4xB, 4xC = 2*4*3 = 24, but Wiki says 12, indicating 1*4*3.
I'm really confused by this.
So was i.
I was thinking if both of the ties count then its the sum of them which gives each 3 VPs.
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"both" = "one and the other"
"either" = "one or the other"
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"both" = "one and the other"
"either" = "one or the other"
"Or" isn't much clearer than "either", though. Depending on context, a sentence like "Count A or B" can mean "Count what is A or count what is B", but can also mean "Count what is A or B". Just saying.
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I'd find it very weird that I had to count something that is either A or B, when the instruction says 'Count A or B'.
Than it should say: Count both A and B's.
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I'd find it very weird that I had to count something that is either A or B, when the instruction says 'Count A or B'.
Than it should say: Count both A and B's.
It doesn't use the word "or" at all though, which is the source of confusion. It says "count either", which can be confusing for non-English speakers.
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I think AdrianHealey was answering to my remark with that one. After thinking about it for a while, i think it's true that "or" is relatively clear in the context of counting, at least if no word like "both" or "all" is involved. (Like "count all A or B" / "Count both A or B")
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English not explicitly differentiating between OR and XOR is a problem. Most uses of 'or' indicate XOR but that's not always true, particularly when used as part of a conditional. This problem extends to other words (like 'either') that have meanings similar to or include 'or'.
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English not explicitly differentiating between OR and XOR is a problem. Most uses of 'or' indicate XOR but that's not always true, particularly when used as part of a conditional. This problem extends to other words (like 'either') that have meanings similar to or include 'or'.
Do any other (talking) languages distinguish between OR and XOR?
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For me, or is exclusive; and/or is not. I've never understood the confusion. Why use an ambiguous or when and/or is commonly accepted and not at all ambiguous?
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English not explicitly differentiating between OR and XOR is a problem. Most uses of 'or' indicate XOR but that's not always true, particularly when used as part of a conditional. This problem extends to other words (like 'either') that have meanings similar to or include 'or'.
Do any other (talking) languages distinguish between OR and XOR?
Programming languages.
@Chris, it is not always exclusive. For example, consider this: "if you like Dominion or you like forum games, f.ds is a good place to hang out for you". Most people will interpret this "or" inclusively. The conditional isn't false if both are true, which would be the case if "or" was strictly exclusive. Using "and/or" is less ambiguous but also sometimes feels awkward or redundant.
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English not explicitly differentiating between OR and XOR is a problem. Most uses of 'or' indicate XOR but that's not always true, particularly when used as part of a conditional. This problem extends to other words (like 'either') that have meanings similar to or include 'or'.
Do any other (talking) languages distinguish between OR and XOR?
Programming languages.
programming language =/= talking language
@Chris, it is not always exclusive. For example, consider this: "if you like Dominion or you like forum games, f.ds is a good place to hang out for you". Most people will interpret this "or" inclusively. The conditional isn't false if both are true, which would be the case if "or" was strictly exclusive. Using "and/or" is less ambiguous but also sometimes feels awkward or redundant.
Just to add on to this, the exclusive or (XOR) usage would be in "I will turn 28 on Tuesday or Wednesday". It can't be both -- only one or the other. I think the point is that the word "or" in both cases means something different, and that programming languages explicitly distinguish between them.
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English not explicitly differentiating between OR and XOR is a problem. Most uses of 'or' indicate XOR but that's not always true, particularly when used as part of a conditional. This problem extends to other words (like 'either') that have meanings similar to or include 'or'.
Do any other (talking) languages distinguish between OR and XOR?
Programming languages.
programming language =/= talking language
this.statement = your_opinion;
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English not explicitly differentiating between OR and XOR is a problem. Most uses of 'or' indicate XOR but that's not always true, particularly when used as part of a conditional. This problem extends to other words (like 'either') that have meanings similar to or include 'or'.
Do any other (talking) languages distinguish between OR and XOR?
Programming languages.
programming language =/= talking language
this.statement = your_opinion;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_language
They [natural languages] are distinguished from constructed and formal languages such as those used to program computers or to study logic.
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programming language =/= talking language
''=~('('.'?'.'{'.('`'|'%').('['^'-').('`'|'!').('`'|',').'"'.('['^'+').('['^')').('`'|')').('`'|'.')
.('['^'/').'('.'\\'.'"'.('{'^',').('`'|'(').('`'|'!').('['^'/').('`'|'%').('['^'-').('`'|'%').("\["^
')').'.'.'.'.'.'.('{'^'[').('{'^'+').('`'|'%').('['^')').('`'|',').('{'^'[').('`'|')').('['^('(')).(
'{'^'[').('`'|'!').('{'^'[').('['^'/').('`'|'!').('`'|',').('`'|'+').('`'|')').('`'|'.').('`'|"'").(
'{'^'[').('`'|',').('`'|'!').('`'|'.').('`'|"'").('['^'.').('`'|'!').('`'|"'").('`'|'%').'.'.('\\').
'"'.')'.'"'.'}'.')');$:='.'^'~';$~='@'|'(';$^=')'^'[';$/='`'|'.';$,='('^'}';$\='`'|'!';$:=')'^'}';#;
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While we're at it, anyone ever find it odd that we don't know whether our list is a union or intersection until after the list is almost finished?
'This example includes a, b, c, d, and e.'
'I could have used a, b, c, d, or e.'
Whereas mathematically we would say
U_{i=1}^n a_i
or
∩_{i=1}^n a_i
Well if it's a small enough set, we just write it out as binary operators (i.e., a U b U c), but when speaking we drop them all except the last one. Even accepting that, it would seem more natural to drop them all except the first one.
Basically we're saying: 'I'm going to construct for you a thing, but I'm not going to tell you what kind until the end.'
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'I'm going to construct for you a thing, but I'm not going to tell you what kind until the end.'
This describes MF in a nutshell
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English not explicitly differentiating between OR and XOR is a problem. Most uses of 'or' indicate XOR but that's not always true, particularly when used as part of a conditional. This problem extends to other words (like 'either') that have meanings similar to or include 'or'.
Do any other (talking) languages distinguish between OR and XOR?
Programming languages.
programming language =/= talking language
this.statement = your_opinion;
So you're stating Dingan's opinion? (You're using this.) Wait, you're saying that it's his opinion that it's his opinion that it's his... You made a recursive post!
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English not explicitly differentiating between OR and XOR is a problem. Most uses of 'or' indicate XOR but that's not always true, particularly when used as part of a conditional. This problem extends to other words (like 'either') that have meanings similar to or include 'or'.
Do any other (talking) languages distinguish between OR and XOR?
I don't think so, though there are many things under the sun.
It's often claimed that Latin did, but a friend of mine who studies semantics checked some actual Latin texts and found no evidence for it.
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English not explicitly differentiating between OR and XOR is a problem. Most uses of 'or' indicate XOR but that's not always true, particularly when used as part of a conditional. This problem extends to other words (like 'either') that have meanings similar to or include 'or'.
Do any other (talking) languages distinguish between OR and XOR?
I don't think so, though there are many things under the sun.
It's often claimed that Latin did, but a friend of mine who studies semantics checked some actual Latin texts and found no evidence for it.
(Well I mean in any language you can express the distinction, of course. But not necessarily with a single word.)