Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Tournaments and Events => Dominion League => Topic started by: drsteelhammer on May 21, 2016, 05:23:55 pm
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If you want to write about a game you or someone else played during the league, or post links to video coverage, please do so in this thread.
If you've lost a game and want to ask for advice, please post it here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=18.0).
All your questions will be answered.
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vs. Mikey the great
Game 1: Bit of Alchemists vs Ironmongers/Heralds. Lots of Giants come out too.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8PmvlQmLLs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8PmvlQmLLs)
Game 2: Governor game. Still unsure on use of Governor.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDXgkRgkzIY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDXgkRgkzIY)
Game 3: Massive Haggler game. Shanty Town helped me early, Menagerie helped him late.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVrR7jlsCKc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVrR7jlsCKc)
Game 4: Strange one. Ended up Estate dancing at the end.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeYybt3NkWk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeYybt3NkWk)
Game 5: Cool Tournament game in which the Prizes guided our decks in somewhat different directions.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o7ptiOzXXU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o7ptiOzXXU)
Game 6: Most interesting game of the lot to me. Lots of Swamp Hag decisions. Would love to hear thoughts on this one.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh2BiW5fp9g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh2BiW5fp9g)
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Interesting, never heard post-commentary dominion before!
Some comments: Game3: Menagerie over Shanty Town looks a lot better after the first two or three, most of those just became Necros in the lategame.
Game 4: I'm wondering whether you had a win on Turn 15 by playing Necro and either killing Province/Silver or Menagerie/Silver. I think you had it by trashing the Province there.
Game5: After getting Trusty, I think you should have drawn with Steward and gained Princess to lock your opponent out of the game.
Game 6: I think you could have taken some Alchemists early atleast, having 6 Vagrants makes 1-2 curses bearable imo. Otherwise your opponent just gets too far ahead since your turns where you could have bought freely were bad with only 2-3 alchemists. Second potion was good albeit late, though. Also, it will probably take some time until we figure out how Swamp hag has to be played around.
In general, I would like you to post your links above your comment, so I can watch the games spoiler-free first :)
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Thanks drsteelhammer! I do think I overdid the Shanty Towns; I completely missed that play of getting the Princess!; I will post the video links before next time.
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For game 6 you were too afraid of the curses. After taking a ball on a turn with swamp hag in play, the -1 coin token is on the deck for a turn when the hag is likely to be gone. I suspect that the nomad camp/ball opening slowed you down considerably. The second potion comes much sooner when buying alchemists for a large deck.
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Subscribed to you YouTube channel, so I can watch your future videos.
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So this happened: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15565.0
Let me be clear up front. I didn't even ask for my opponent to give me the win or anything like that. I don't think that it was BAD of him to take the win. I think it would have been super nice of him to resign and give me the win, but that's extra nice and not expected (I think).
Wondering what other league members' opinions are on this or league moderators. I guess it will boil down to "let the players sort it out" but I am just wondering how you guys may have sorted this out if you were on either end of this situation.
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So this happened: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15565.0
Let me be clear up front. I didn't even ask for my opponent to give me the win or anything like that. I don't think that it was BAD of him to take the win. I think it would have been super nice of him to resign and give me the win, but that's extra nice and not expected (I think).
Wondering what other league members' opinions are on this or league moderators. I guess it will boil down to "let the players sort it out" but I am just wondering how you guys may have sorted this out if you were on either end of this situation.
In your shoes: I would have accepted the loss without complaining (at least not out loud ;))
In his shoes: I would have given you the win.
He is in no way supposed to give you a win. You simply lost the game you were playing (Dominion on a computer). I know some people (and I am among them) like pretending we are playing some pure form of theoretical Dominion where the interface is just an earthly burden, but this is just in my head. In reality, there are several ways you can win/lose. Playing a better strategy is one of them, actually clicking on the cards you want to click on is another.
And just some nitpicking: what you are describing here is not a misclick. A misclick is a situation where you try to click on X but end up clicking on Y.
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So this happened: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15565.0
Let me be clear up front. I didn't even ask for my opponent to give me the win or anything like that. I don't think that it was BAD of him to take the win. I think it would have been super nice of him to resign and give me the win, but that's extra nice and not expected (I think).
Wondering what other league members' opinions are on this or league moderators. I guess it will boil down to "let the players sort it out" but I am just wondering how you guys may have sorted this out if you were on either end of this situation.
In your shoes: I would have accepted the loss without complaining (at least not out loud ;))
In his shoes: I would have given you the win.
He is in no way supposed to give you a win. You simply lost the game you were playing (Dominion on a computer). I know some people (and I am among them) like pretending we are playing some pure form of theoretical Dominion where the interface is just an earthly burden, but this is just in my head. In reality, there are several ways you can win/lose. Playing a better strategy is one of them, actually clicking on the cards you want to click on is another.
And just some nitpicking: what you are describing here is not a misclick. A misclick is a situation where you try to click on X but end up clicking on Y.
Cool, good to hear these thoughts. They all make sense (even correcting my use of misclick) and are basically what I did (unless you count this post as "complaining" but I am really just curious of other opinions and don't fault my opponent at all). Is there a better word for this? Other example that comes up a lot is when you play Swindler on an opponent's estate and then it auto-swindles them an estate because there aren't any other 2 costs but the blue + still shows up on the estate because of the 2 coins from Swindler so you click on that ending your turn and buying an estate when you mean to give it to him. I was trying to click on estate so it isn't a "misclick" but I just was wrong about the current state of the game (not in my swindler phase but in my buy phase).
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I'd totally still call it a misclick, but you could probably call it a misplay and it would be more accurate. You intentionally clicked on the Woodcutter, but what you "intended" to click on was your Coppers despite the fact that you did not realize at that moment that it was what needed to happen to make your intended play.
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I'd totally still call it a misclick, but you could probably call it a misplay and it would be more accurate. You intentionally clicked on the Woodcutter, but what you "intended" to click on was your Coppers despite the fact that you did not realize at that moment that it was what needed to happen to make your intended play.
It's a meta missclick
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I'd totally still call it a misclick, but you could probably call it a misplay and it would be more accurate. You intentionally clicked on the Woodcutter, but what you "intended" to click on was your Coppers despite the fact that you did not realize at that moment that it was what needed to happen to make your intended play.
I think misclick is a good enough descriptor of what happened, and better than misplay.
Misplay makes me think of an "intentional error", as in "I really misplayed that board - yet getting a fifth Chapel sounded like such a good idea at the time!"
Here, ravi knew what he wanted but unfortunately didn't manage to "drive" the UI safely to destination.
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My first season in the League, I had a match (against MtMagus I believe) that ended 3.5 - 2.5). Here's the game that ended in a tie:
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160226/log.0.1456455696564.txt (http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160226/log.0.1456455696564.txt)
Long story short, if you look at my last buy before the game ended, I bought a Silver instead of an estate. I was at the end of my shuffle, and I thought "hey, Estates aren't going to matter, it's going to come down to who can spike that extra province, so I want a silver". I overlooked that I just emptied the third pile, and an estate would have given me the win. So we tied.
This is not a misclick, it's not even quite the same as the example you provided, this is more my fault and not the fault of some strange quirk that happens in MF. But my point is that in an IRL game, it's much more apparent that there's 3 empty piles, and I probably make the right decision. Probably my opponent also will just acknowledge that I win.
In a league game though, it's a tie, there's nothing I can do. My opponent said "what happened? You could've bought an estate and won?" I told him what happened, and part of me wanted him to say "you know what, we'll give you the win, because you should've won that game", but he didn't, and shouldn't have, and even if he had, I would've told him no, it's a tie, it's my mistake. I had another league game recently, I can't remember the situation exactly, but my opponent lost because he misclicked a Tournament and was forced to gain a Duchy, which emptied the third pile, and he lost. He would have otherwise won the game. We discussed it afterwards, ya that sucks, but I wasn't giving him the win (and he didn't ask for it). That's just the way things go. Sometimes you don't get the wins you deserve, or you get wins you don't deserve. All you can do is try and learn from your mistakes.
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Pretty much what Stef said.
Such situations happen from time to time and if opponent gives you a win, well everybody's happy, if no, you can't blame him too.
One thing I disagree with is making such things public, but maybe it's just me.
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Man, I can't even begin to count how many times I headshotted my opponents in my mind!
Sadly, my mouse isn't as fast as my eyes... :(
Online Dominion is different from offline Dominion, we have to accept this.
Sometimes, this is a nuisance, because we can't modify our inputs after we've sent them to the server.
But it helps us too, because we can let the server count VPs for us, count cards in our draw pile, etc.
Being the best at online Dominion means being the best at online Dominion, not being the best at abstract Dominion.
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Man, I can't even begin to count how many times I headshotted my opponents in my mind!
Call of Duty: Dominion Warfare
Misclicks are misclicks. If they happen, they are your fault, or whoever did them at the time. Yes, it can suck, but it's part of Online Dominion.
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vs. drsteelhammer
Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vTmbvTF1qI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vTmbvTF1qI)
Neat interaction with Horse Traders and Alms
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EBF3JUJTpY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EBF3JUJTpY)
More Swamp Hag lessons
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ8INrYy3A4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ8INrYy3A4)
Horse Traders exhibition
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB_biGafxmI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB_biGafxmI)
Artificer and Tactician? That's not a question!
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQ6bmNly3E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQ6bmNly3E)
Exemplary Madman megaturn
Game 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7ZO1h4JLJY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7ZO1h4JLJY)
The wisdom of Sages
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vs Dingan
Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH2TB81VayE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH2TB81VayE)
Saving Rebuild
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSxmZnBuLnw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSxmZnBuLnw)
Base showcase
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpS5r-WpMzE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpS5r-WpMzE)
So many terminals
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSqtr7nxs6Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSqtr7nxs6Q)
Minions and Goons in the Fortress
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcXnQKz_VZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcXnQKz_VZs)
The Taxman Razes
Game 6:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U-OYfZg9Oc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U-OYfZg9Oc)
Cultists in the Trove
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Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpS5r-WpMzE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpS5r-WpMzE)
So many terminals
Not excited about Black Market here. There's decent trashing, good draw, a village and the best payload on the board. I'd try to skip Black Market here, maybe go for it later if I think it's to scary to grant all of the BM cards to my opponent. What's the opening then? Double Amulet, is that good? I guess Amulet/Silver, trying to hit an early Butcher.
Nice last turn, though
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vs. MVP
Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRUKPaCXE7k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRUKPaCXE7k)
Out of nowhere
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0edxfN7aKw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0edxfN7aKw)
All your eggs in two baskets
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnQkbF2snB4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnQkbF2snB4)
Treasure Map pile is empty?!
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmbVP7HMoN0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmbVP7HMoN0)
Bit of contrast
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tLCPBRVuW4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tLCPBRVuW4)
Hax
Game 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYDYXmIpygk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYDYXmIpygk)
Wandering Minstrel shines
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B2 Match I vs. E.Honda:
https://youtu.be/qlzmvfpn73Y
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B2 Match I vs. E.Honda:
Game 3: don't buy golds with swamp hag in play. Curse +gold pushes your money density to 1.5 which is pretty bad (5*1.5) olny = 7.5 also you get a curse which will be -1point
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B2 Match II vs. Rabid:
https://youtu.be/RUCPKQBqxGE
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vs. Mikey the great
Game 1: Bit of Alchemists vs Ironmongers/Heralds. Lots of Giants come out too.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8PmvlQmLLs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8PmvlQmLLs)
Game 2: Governor game. Still unsure on use of Governor.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDXgkRgkzIY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDXgkRgkzIY)
Game 3: Massive Haggler game. Shanty Town helped me early, Menagerie helped him late.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVrR7jlsCKc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVrR7jlsCKc)
Game 4: Strange one. Ended up Estate dancing at the end.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeYybt3NkWk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeYybt3NkWk)
Game 5: Cool Tournament game in which the Prizes guided our decks in somewhat different directions.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o7ptiOzXXU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o7ptiOzXXU)
Game 6: Most interesting game of the lot to me. Lots of Swamp Hag decisions. Would love to hear thoughts on this one.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh2BiW5fp9g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh2BiW5fp9g)
Game 1:
I am not much convinced about engine as opening hermit jack and then getting ironmonger bm would get 6 provinces before giant becomes problem as its too slow.
Game 2: You missed golden opportunity at opening which was bridge troll. With it you could trash with forager and alms two governors. Also you should pick gear after second forager and gain more gold with governors early instead of drawing as one who first junks opponent with silver usually wins.
Game 3: Of course menageries here are great and sucky town is most of times necropolis as usual. Here minion is weak as it helps trigger opponents menageries. I would get two hagglers first and then get nobles/fortress/menageries and crossroads once you get few nobles. You could add some minions or cartographers.
Game 5: This should be cultist game. While you could get thin you couldn't get thin fast enough. One needs extra 3-5 bad turns to get rid of ruins, I would do just light trashing of estates then get cultists and transmorgrify. If opponent tries to get engine I would transmorgrify silver into tournament to deny princess. I would also mill provinces/ cultist->cultist+3cards tricks with it.
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Game 2: You missed golden opportunity at opening which was bridge troll. With it you could trash with forager and alms two governors.
Alms works once per turn. I had not considered the Bridge Troll/Alms interaction though (also did not think about any BM strategy in Game 1). Thanks for all the feedback!
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B2 Match II vs. Rabid:
Thanks for recording, always nice to watch the match from the other side.
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160609/log.0.1465504046025.txt
Pillage game end.
I took 3 great halls hoping you don't draw herald.
If you dud and buy province.
Then I can at least tie with develop $4 into greathall + duchy.
(caravan + develop known to be in my next 3 cards)
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B2 Match III vs. DG:
https://youtu.be/aGMvbZcU9Sc
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01AeMf090Ig
I'll post this because I am curious about pretty much how I played all of these games.
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B2 Match IV vs. gamesou:
https://youtu.be/UCRqeG7dqUo
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B2 Match IV vs. gamesou:
Game 1 you missed two Scouting Parties (you realized the third one), the one on Turn 7 was crucial since you just triggered a bad shuffle
Game 2: I agree with you, Workshop looks nicer than Uni, but afterwards you made your own shuffle luck man, after the second or third minstrel they got worse than nothing since they prevented you from colliding moneylender and copper. Pearl Divers would have been a better choice than that. Or Caravans! Also, that Silver was quite useless aswell, you will hit five once for the contraband with caravans+moneylender.
I like your play in game four except the one gear play with cost you one turn and the last turn, obviously ;)
Game 5: I would have liked to see a T4 Estate trashing hovel over the csm, so you don't get as many csm from remake.
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B2 Match IV vs. gamesou:
Game 1 you missed two Scouting Parties (you realized the third one), the one on Turn 7 was crucial since you just triggered a bad shuffle
Game 2: I agree with you, Workshop looks nicer than Uni, but afterwards you made your own shuffle luck man, after the second or third minstrel they got worse than nothing since they prevented you from colliding moneylender and copper. Pearl Divers would have been a better choice than that. Or Caravans! Also, that Silver was quite useless aswell, you will hit five once for the contraband with caravans+moneylender.
I like your play in game four except the one gear play with cost you one turn and the last turn, obviously ;)
Game 5: I would have liked to see a T4 Estate trashing hovel over the csm, so you don't get as many csm from remake.
Game 1: Yeah I noticed on the rewatch. gamesou also mentioned later that it might have been smart to buy Scouting Party instead of Silver in turn 2 already.
Game 2: I realized it too late, I wanted the actions to play a lot of Workshops to get all the Throne Rooms and Caravans, also it filters and gets me to Workshop faster. But I should have definitely switched to Caravan much earlier.
Game 4: Yeah, I'm glad it didn't cost me the game. It makes me kind of sad that I miss 3piles still so often no matter how much experience you have.
Game 5: Well, I want 2 CSMs anyway I think, the ones that I get from Hovel and OGE, they smooth out buys and such. I figured I rather get one now and trash a Hovel or an OGE rather with Forager than Remake. Maybe that's terrible, I don't know.
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vs. e
Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muaXNiPi3os (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muaXNiPi3os)
A Rebuilding Tournament
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdBG9IucsdQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdBG9IucsdQ)
Please mind the gap between the Supply and game end
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4NhT3H97Xk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4NhT3H97Xk)
Gaining Golems
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VmwS9tfipQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VmwS9tfipQ)
Knights Knockout
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjvTDo0WF3w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjvTDo0WF3w)
'e's on a Mission
Game 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcGZb3SrCWE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcGZb3SrCWE)
Catacombs-BM
Thank you all for watching and contributing throughout the season!
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B2 Match V vs. Geronimoo (a tense match about demotion):
https://youtu.be/IemOa0roD7g
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In that Golem/artificer/masquerade game, you hardly ever gained anything from artificer. Did you consider, on hands where you played artificer with masquerade in hand, not discarding anything and gaining a curse to pass to your opponent? I counted around 7+ times where you could have done that, including turn 19 where you didn't play your masquerade for fear of not having anything to pass.
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In that Golem/artificer/masquerade game, you hardly ever gained anything from artificer. Did you consider, on hands where you played artificer with masquerade in hand, not discarding anything and gaining a curse to pass to your opponent? I counted around 7+ times where you could have done that, including turn 19 where you didn't play your masquerade for fear of not having anything to pass.
That's a good point. I didn't consider that, thanks.