Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Variants and Fan Cards => Topic started by: AdrianHealey on March 21, 2016, 07:59:40 pm
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Hi everyone,
I'll regularly update posts here of fan cards I have tested.
(The Thread will be updated.)
If you can help me find the source of cards, please do so. I forgot some. Will update the thred soon to update the sources of all cards and their makers.
Make not that just because *I* think a card needs some tweaks, that this means it's a bad card or something.
Highly recommended
Charlatan (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581014#msg581014) (Enterprise)
Fountain (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581016#msg581016) (Asper)
Wheelwright (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581117#msg581117) (Enterprise)
Patron (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg582078#msg582078)
Recommended
Alley (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581011#msg581011) (Asper)
Auction (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581126#msg581126)
Leper Village (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581025#msg581025) (Greed)
Nouveau Riche (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581027#msg581027) (Asper)
Prima Donna (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581029#msg581029)
Refurbish (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581030#msg581030) (Enterprise)
Saturnalia (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581115#msg581115)
Town (& Road) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581116#msg581116)
Sunken City (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581118#msg581118) (Asper)
Building Cranes (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg582081#msg582081) (cookielord)
Could use some tweaks/no strong opinion on yet
Floodgate (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581015#msg581015)
Frontier (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581019#msg581019)
Hospital (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg581023#msg581023) (Asper)
Student (from Seasons (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg582075#msg582075) (Asper & Cookielord)
Trade Port (from Seasons (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg582075#msg582075) (Asper & Cookielord)
Gladiator (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14992.msg582079#msg582079)
(http://s9.postimg.org/vffzplcgf/00_Alley_kopie.png)(http://s10.postimg.org/fft8zcpnd/0_Auction_kopie.png)(http://s11.postimg.org/58e409hjz/00_Charlatan_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/58e409hjz/)(http://s22.postimg.org/el5trpa19/0_Floodgate_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/el5trpa19/)(http://s14.postimg.org/9ztz19cjh/1_Fountain_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9ztz19cjh/)(http://s16.postimg.org/m0gabcvwh/0_Frontier_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/m0gabcvwh/)(http://s21.postimg.org/eywi3093n/0_Hospital_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/eywi3093n/)(http://s9.postimg.org/4hvpypnij/Leper_Village.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4hvpypnij/)(http://s14.postimg.org/qzhmohprx/0_Noveau_Riche_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qzhmohprx/)(http://s18.postimg.org/50j65t09x/0_Prima_Donna_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/50j65t09x/)(http://s28.postimg.org/s9vixsdeh/Refurbish_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/s9vixsdeh/)(http://s23.postimg.org/vhascv147/0_Saturnalia_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/vhascv147/)(http://s12.postimg.org/r63orspgp/0_Town_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/r63orspgp/) (http://s21.postimg.org/5uujq6hhv/0_Road_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5uujq6hhv/)(http://s22.postimg.org/hx9bmoln1/0_Wheelwright_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hx9bmoln1/)(http://s7.postimg.org/hn6hyazyf/1_Sunken_City_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hn6hyazyf/)(http://s18.postimg.org/f0w67dhih/Student.jpg)(http://s29.postimg.org/5a8q1rptj/Tradeport.png)(http://s16.postimg.org/4cmq5x8v9/patron.png)(http://s23.postimg.org/x4275tm7v/Gladiator.png)(http://s22.postimg.org/nrgoi9uip/0_Building_Cranes_kopie.png)
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(http://s9.postimg.org/vffzplcgf/00_Alley_kopie.png)
Score: 2/5
Testing: 2/5
Unfortunately, hasn't seen much tested yet. I tried it in a game with Upgrade, so I was hoping for a cool interaction with copper/curse => alley as a one time boost, but there were other stronger options in the game.
Seems a bit niche. Maybe should be tackled onto anther card like the Road/Town interaction?
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(http://s11.postimg.org/58e409hjz/00_Charlatan_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/58e409hjz/)
Charlatan. Fun as hell. Sometimes a bit difficult to forget. I used it in a game with also fountain (+3 actions, +1 buy). I won because I ultimately managed to get a big turn with wheelwright (draw to 7 cards), fountain and bridge. But if I didn't get to 16 (which I did, barely), I had to buy like 7 or 8 useless cards for $0 (hello coppers!).
So charlatan is a fun counter to +buy tactics. It really forces you to be carefull with your +buy's. No more carelessly playing markets and festivals. But it's not like the card is so strong that you stop buying them all together.
Fun card to play. Definitely would recommend.
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Floodgate
(http://s22.postimg.org/el5trpa19/0_Floodgate_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/el5trpa19/)
Interesting victory card. I used it in a game as a bane for Young Witch, which wasn't the best of all ideas, because that meant the card wasn't bought for it's On Buy effect. So it hasn't gotten the attention it deserves yet. That's a bit unfortunate, but it'll get the love it deserves soon.
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Fountain
(http://s14.postimg.org/9ztz19cjh/1_Fountain_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9ztz19cjh/)
Ah, yes, this one was fun. For some reason, we kept forgetting the 'on buy' effect. Probably because it's not really something you really buy the card for. Even without the on buy effect, you'd still buy the card, especially (or solely?) when there is a strong draw. If that's absend, the card... kind of looses power, but it's still cool.
Use this if you want a village without having a village. Definitely a keeper in my randomizer cards.
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(http://s16.postimg.org/m0gabcvwh/0_Frontier_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/m0gabcvwh/)
I like the concept, and that's why I printed it. But it hasn't quite 'clicked' yet. It's bought very little, and the fact that it empties one supply pile really fast has been really unpopular. I have had some suggestion with the designer, and I am not sure how to make it more fun. One suggestion would be to increase the VP points to $6 (or reduce the price to $4). (Yes, that's a lot of VP for little money, but it's really a drag in your deck.) Another suggestion would be to make it such that this empty pile doesn't count towards victory conditions.
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(http://s21.postimg.org/eywi3093n/0_Hospital_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/eywi3093n/)
Only use this if there is a strong trasher! But when there is a strong trasher, it's a fun card. I used it in a game and put my trashing token (with that one event, I forgot the name) on this card. Gaining coppers, but trashing a copper too (not the same, obviously) was a fun way of playing it. I overdid it though: bought 4 of these, which was too much and other players where quicker to get $8 with lost treasures.
But with a strong trasher, this is a fun card. Probably a great interaction with Money Lender.
I don't think I would buy it in a game without a strong (copper) trasher, though. That's just poisoning your own deck.
My suggestion, to make it a bit more generally useable, would be to add a reaction to it (think Beggar) or something else that it can do at some other time, that isn't too strong, but still oke.
For example:
Hospital
Action-Reaction
$4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a copper and put it into your hand. If you do: +1 VP
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When someone gains a treasure, discard this from your hand. If you do: +1 VP.
or
Hospital
Action-Reserve
$4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a copper and put it into your hand. If you do: +1 VP
Put this on your tavern mat.
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When you gain a card, you may call this. If you do, you may trash a card from your hand.
That way, it has a nice synergy with itself, limiting the amount of coppers, and useable for other cards as well.
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Leper Village
(http://s9.postimg.org/4hvpypnij/Leper_Village.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4hvpypnij/)
Interesting card. It took a few turns before we got use to the 6 card draw, rather than the 5 card draw, but we managed. It's cool that it comes with it's own urchin attack, when people have 6 cards. You often do end up with 5 or even just 4 or 3 cards, though. So this card causes a better shifting, which is something to take into account when you use it. A good draw card is *very* useful. Given that it gives +$1, story teller would be a reasonable choice. The card itself doesn't give you draw, so in a kingdom with no draw, this would be a weird card to have. But it's still a good card, because of the attack.
We played it with a strong engine kingdom, and this card was very useful. At one point I was drawing my deck, causing my opponents to only have 3 cards in hand, because I was able to play all my leper villages. But if they have leper village+draw, it doesn't matter too much. (Which is always present when you have a engine kingdom.)
Maybe I want to play with a kingdom with this card and moat as the only draw and see what happens, haha.
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Heir
(formerly known as Nouveau Riche)
(http://s14.postimg.org/qzhmohprx/0_Noveau_Riche_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qzhmohprx/)
Ah, fun card. One of the favorites in my dominion group. It creates a bunch of new ways to play the game (buying duchies suddenly becomes attractive), alt vp is fun too and getting estates through ambassador is suddenly not that big of a deal anymore. It's a card that seems high skill, because sometimes it cna be an absolute dud, but sometimes you can just keep on engining. Very good design, and a great card to have as an option when preparing kingdoms.
One interesting thing: it starts really strong, but the more cards you have, the weaker it becomes, because it's harder to line it up with victory cards. So you also need to invest in victory cards, but they hurt other synergies in your deck (usually).
If I would change one thing, I think I would change the second clause from 'you may discard a duchy' to 'you may discard a victory card, worth at least $4' to make it even more compatible with Alt Vp, something this card can really use.
But even as it is, it's a great card. Definitely would recommend.
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(http://s18.postimg.org/50j65t09x/0_Prima_Donna_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/50j65t09x/)
Ah, Prima Donna!
I think I got this card from just googling 'dominion fan cards' and downloading everything I found, because the way it's phrased isn't particularly great. That said, if you use a bit common sense, I think I have used the card as intended.
So you 'damage' yourself this turn and next turn for +$2, but you also get +$3, so in fact, it's something like a lighthouse (getting 1$ this turn and next turn) and in the mean time: everyone who wants to buy a card needs to pay $2 more. Don't underestimate this. Suddenly having to pay $5 for a village, $8 for a gold or $10 for a province can be annoying. (Sometimes, you just breeze right through it, though.)
We had it in a game with Charlatan, which basically was a defense against it. If you increased the price of coppers to $2, you can't use all your buys anymore that Charlatan mandates, so that was cool. I am curious to having it in a game without charlatan, though. Maybe even in a game where it's harder to get to higher numbers.
It's also not stupidly overpowered and it's fun to use. Even if you 'suffer' from it, you can still advance your deck in reasonable ways. The player playing it, also has to make a sacrifice, so it doesn't feel overpowered in that regard either.
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(http://s28.postimg.org/s9vixsdeh/Refurbish_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/s9vixsdeh/)
Ah, refurbish. The rich man's Coppersmith, comes with a way of gaining silver (as a slow trasher) ànd a +buy. Which is pretty amazing.
It's a very slow card (similar to miser, I think), but damn, it can create good value, if you can enable it. (I had it with a superturn with native village, buying the remaining 3 provinces and 5 dutchies, and winning that game with 33 to 32 (I still had an estate left).)
It's not always good, but it does what it needs to do. It's also a slow trasher, which is a nice bonus. The original version was mandatory trashing, but that was just annoying. This version is way more fun to use, but not overpowered and quite decent.
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Why, thanks for trying out and reviewing a few of my cards :)
I'm glad you like Fountain, i'm rather happy with it. The on-buy is nice in the beginning to trash Estates, but only after you built a bit or can exchange the Estate for a decently good $2 (Moat is actually pretty good for this). You can technically gain a Copper for your Estates, but a Fountain too early is about as bad as an Estate.
Alley is an old card, but it sticks around for being simple and fun. It seems niche, but it's surprisingly often you have asome interaction with it. Fountain would be one, for example.
I admit Hospital is very good with strong trashing, and not that good otherwise. I'm not that involved in taking care of my cards right now, so i'm not going to alter it all too soon.
Same goes for Nouveau Riche. I agree discarding any $4 VP card would make it stronger, but i went the Duchy route nonetheless. Maybe it becomes too weak too fast...
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Why, thanks for trying out and reviewing a few of my cards :)
I'm glad you like Fountain, i'm rather happy with it. The on-buy is nice in the beginning to trash Estates, but only after you built a bit or can exchange the Estate for a decently good $2 (Moat is actually pretty good for this). You can technically gain a Copper for your Estates, but a Fountain too early is about as bad as an Estate.
Alley is an old card, but it sticks around for being simple and fun. It seems niche, but it's surprisingly often you have asome interaction with it. Fountain would be one, for example.
I admit Hospital is very good with strong trashing, and not that good otherwise. I'm not that involved in taking care of my cards right now, so i'm not going to alter it all too soon.
Same goes for Nouveau Riche. I agree discarding any $4 VP card would make it stronger, but i went the Duchy route nonetheless. Maybe it becomes too weak too fast...
No worries, it's the greatest fun: trying out new cards. :)
I hope my feedback was, to an extend, useful. If there is anything that can make the feedback better, let me know! *If* you take another look at Hospital and Nouveau Riche ('heir'), I hope my suggestions might help with that.
Nouveau Riche is fun - don't get me wrong - but it really looses some power. And it's not a huge buff to make it able to use any alt-vp or provinces for the +$3. It's still worth having a duchy or two in your deck, on the way to provinces.
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(http://s23.postimg.org/vhascv147/0_Saturnalia_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/vhascv147/)
Saturnalia!
Doesn't work well with Champion, haha. Although: when do you get the +1 Action from Champion? In the beginning or at the end? Because it matters for Saturnalia.
Either way: it's a *really* strong card, because of the chaining effect. It's almost an engine in itself, if you have strong trashing. Pretty sure people would still buy it at $7. It's that good. (It's a gold that gives you an extra card, an extra buy and you can play one of these again?)
Good card, fun, well designed.
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(http://s12.postimg.org/r63orspgp/0_Town_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/r63orspgp/) (http://s21.postimg.org/5uujq6hhv/0_Road_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5uujq6hhv/)
Town & Road.
I used Town & Road in a game with a fan card of my own, where you can choose: +2 Actions, +2 Cards, +2 Buys or +$2. (But when you buy it, you can get 2 of these at the same time, and there are 20 in the supply.) The guy managed to put the +1 Action token with teacher on this card and then with road could draw his deck relatively consistently (and won accordingly.)
So Road can be absolutely absurd and frustrating, but it's in itself not bad designed, I think. Although I am curious to see it in a game with Champion, it's probably just absurd there, because even if you have the sloggiest deck in the world, you can still put your entire deck in your hand.
But outside of that, it's ok. It's usually not overpowered, but a normal card. Still needs some more playtesting.
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(http://s22.postimg.org/hx9bmoln1/0_Wheelwright_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hx9bmoln1/)
Ah, Wheelwright. I put it in a game with Moneylender, so I was al to happy to get an additional copper in my hand. I am not sure outside of that kind of niche contexts, when you'd want to put a copper in your hand. Wheelwright itself is a good shifter, especially when you have villages. It's a pretty powerful draw/shifter card, and the effect on your opponents is a fun extra, to take into account when devising strategies. (Imagine what you can do if you put your +1 Action token on this card!)
Plays very different from other draw cards, which is fun.
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(http://s7.postimg.org/hn6hyazyf/1_Sunken_City_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hn6hyazyf/)
Sunken City
People have mentioned the tracking issues, and it's not completely untrue, but ultimately, it's not that difficult. It's a bit of a risky card, and usually, when it's starts becoming worth it to buy it, you have other options, so it ends up not being bought all that much. Or that's my limited experience.
One fun addition would be, I think, to add an on-buy clause, whereby you get an additional buy if you buy this card. A little bit like events. That way, this card will definitely get much more love than it's getting now, as it should. (Maybe a clause like: 'If this is the first Sunken City you buy this turn, + 1 buy for a card other than Sunken City' to make sure people don't just empty the entire supply in one go with sufficient money.)
But when you have it, it's a nice card. A bit risky, but you can make your own luck by having lot's of action cards and little treasures or other cards.
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(http://s10.postimg.org/fft8zcpnd/0_Auction_kopie.png)
Nice design! A bit confusing sometimes (discarding your whole hand is a bit counter intuïtive, and we forgot it sometimes), but the reaction is pretty strong. Might need a small buff, such as providing +$1 anyway or that you can choose how many cards you discard, in our limited experience. Needs more playtesting for sure.
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It might be a good idea to list the creator of the card. A ranking on a scale of 1-10 would be much appreciated as well! Don't take this as nitpicking, just some ideas!
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(http://s12.postimg.org/r63orspgp/0_Town_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/r63orspgp/) (http://s21.postimg.org/5uujq6hhv/0_Road_kopie.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5uujq6hhv/)
Town & Road.
I used Town & Road in a game with a fan card of my own, where you can choose: +2 Actions, +2 Cards, +2 Buys or +$2. (But when you buy it, you can get 2 of these at the same time, and there are 20 in the supply.) The guy managed to put the +1 Action token with teacher on this card and then with road could draw his deck relatively consistently (and won accordingly.)
So Road can be absolutely absurd and frustrating, but it's in itself not bad designed, I think. Although I am curious to see it in a game with Champion, it's probably just absurd there, because even if you have the sloggiest deck in the world, you can still put your entire deck in your hand.
But outside of that, it's ok. It's usually not overpowered, but a normal card. Still needs some more playtesting.
About Road: Try a game without +1Action tokens or Champion. They let practically any terminal draw get absurd.
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About Road: Try a game without +1Action tokens or Champion. They let practically any terminal draw get absurd.
That's the idea. :)
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(http://s16.postimg.org/r24ycqx39/Schermafbeelding_2016_03_22_om_16_53_29.png)(http://s30.postimg.org/r56drbvwx/Schermafbeelding_2016_03_22_om_16_53_40.png)
The new cards I've printed today.
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Student
(http://s18.postimg.org/f0w67dhih/Student.jpg)
So, I played two games today with trade port and (the first version of) student.
Take everything what I say here with the necessary 'first impression' caveat. So no need to make any definitive calls.
The first student gave:
Spring: +$1
Summer: +1 Action
Fall: +1 buy
Winter: +1 Card
The new student:
Spring: +1 Action
Summer: +1 Card
Fall: +1 buy
Winter: +$1
We played with the first version and it felt really weak. So weak, I would even say that even the new student will feel pretty weak. You have to play him every season, so you need to buy multiple, but it doesn't get good until really late. We haven't tested the second student yet - which is obviously better - but even there you *have* to buy multiple, to make sure you play them once every season.
I *think* that I would give student +1 action, +$1 from the get go. So that ultimately, you end up with +2 actions, +1 card, +$1, +1 buy.
That looks strong, but you really have to *work* the card to get there. Otherwise it never gets better than a bazaar/worker village; and you don't get it from the get go. In order for it to be attractive, there needs some sort of bonus for it.
I think that the order I would use, if you do that:
Spring: +1 Action (2 actions and a coin)
Summer: +1 Buy (2 actions, a coin and a buy)
Fall: +$1 (2 actions, $2 coins and a buy)
Winter: (2 actions, $2 coins, a buy and a card)
If you do this, you could also bring the price to $4, maybe. That's a strong card, but remember: it's not that you can use it a lot.
I like the mechanic, but the way it's done with the first student, felt very weak. But again: maybe the second student is already sufficiently better.
Addendum: the designers (Asper & Cookielord) agreed that the card was slow, but that it's not necessary to buy multiple, as long as you can play one a season. They also recommend the second version (with which I haven't played yet).
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Trade port
(http://s29.postimg.org/5a8q1rptj/Tradeport.png)
Trade port is the other card, and that one just felt very weak. Maybe I didn't use it right, but the fact that it stops being useful in winter is really hard. I mean, if I can open $5/$2, I'd buy it, but after that... it stops being attractive really fast. I definitely has a niche, but it's really not a strong card. One thing I'd consider would be something like:
+$1.
+1 buy, except in winter.
I mean, it needs more testing, but the first experience was that it was pretty weak. But again, more testing is always required. But that was our first experience.
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Patron
(http://postimg.org/image/i6b2uz1gh/3d24d3c8/)
WHAT A GREAT CARD! There are so many different things you can do with this, and it doesn't feel overpowered in any of them, but it's fun to do some cute tricks with it.
For example: in the game today there was a Miser involved. Someone had 4 coppers on his tavern mat. Play miser, react with patron and BAM those 4 coppers are now a province. (Similar to a throne roomed Miser, of course.) Use patron, react with patron, gain a $5 card. Have $1 short? Let Patron take care of it, and don't gain another useless $4 card!
Tremendous design. Absolutely loved it.
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Patron
(http://s16.postimg.org/4cmq5x8v9/patron.png)
WHAT A GREAT CARD! There are so many different things you can do with this, and it doesn't feel overpowered in any of them, but it's fun to do some cute tricks with it.
For example: in the game today there was a Miser involved. Someone had 4 coppers on his tavern mat. Play miser, react with patron and BAM those 4 coppers are now a province. (Similar to a throne roomed Miser, of course.) Use patron, react with patron, gain a $5 card. Have $1 short? Let Patron take care of it, and don't gain another useless $4 card!
Tremendous design. Absolutely loved it.
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Gladiator
(http://s23.postimg.org/x4275tm7v/Gladiator.png)
In two games, it was used only once. The 6 card, 2 action start in your next turn is nice, though. Maybe I underestimated the card, and should I have bought more and used it as a delayed village. Not sure.
The jury is not out yet, though.
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Building Cranes
(http://s22.postimg.org/nrgoi9uip/0_Building_Cranes_kopie.png)
Great design, but when there is +buy available, it gets silly really fast. I was able to buy 5 (because I had students who provided +buy and a festival) and 3-pile if I wanted too. (I wasn't ahead in provinces, so I didn't, but still.) I was able to buy 5, because I had put 3 back on the supply that particular turn.
When there is +buy, it's almost a necessity. We didn't play a game yet where there wasn't +Buy, but I can't imagine that this card would be picked up much in games like that. We'll see.
If I had to make some design suggestions, I think something like this would be my suggestion:
Building Cranes
$5
action
+3 cards
+1 Action
Return this to the supply. If you do, BC cost $2 less but not less than $1.
Make it slightly more expensive, so that you still have to sacrifice some coins to get additional versions.
Either way, still curious for more testing, but man, that card can be strong if there are additional buys.
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Patron
(http://s16.postimg.org/4cmq5x8v9/patron.png)
WHAT A GREAT CARD! There are so many different things you can do with this, and it doesn't feel overpowered in any of them, but it's fun to do some cute tricks with it.
For example: in the game today there was a Miser involved. Someone had 4 coppers on his tavern mat. Play miser, react with patron and BAM those 4 coppers are now a province. (Similar to a throne roomed Miser, of course.) Use patron, react with patron, gain a $5 card. Have $1 short? Let Patron take care of it, and don't gain another useless $4 card!
Tremendous design. Absolutely loved it.
I assumed there were a lot of cards that interact very weirdly with Patron, but somehow i only got this: If i play a normal and a Patroned Highway, what is the minimum cost? Is it $0 or $1?
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Depends which O-symbol you increase in value, right?
I would increase the cost reduction value, so min value is still $0.
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Depends which O-symbol you increase in value, right?
I would increase the cost reduction value, so min value is still $0.
Well, sure. What if i don't do that, though? For example because i want to trash Coppers or Curses to Bishop?
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So you play one highway without patron and one with patron, and then you wonder if cards can go below 1 or nor?
I'd say: last played card counts.
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It really depends whether you'd say the "but not less than (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/5d/Coin0.png/16px-Coin0.png)"-part of the card is actually the card's effect or a rule that should be printed in the rulebook rather than on the actual card. With cards usually costing (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/5d/Coin0.png/16px-Coin0.png), the rule "cards cannot cost not less than (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png)" makes no sense as it does not increase the cost itself.
That text should avoid issues with negative money (Poor House) or negative costs (do I get (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6d/Coin.png/16px-Coin.png) when I buy it), so in my opinion, the second (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/5d/Coin0.png/16px-Coin0.png) on Highway, Bridge etc. should not be a valid target for Patron.
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So you play one highway without patron and one with patron, and then you wonder if cards can go below 1 or nor?
I'd say: last played card counts.
I'd say it's very clearly always $1. The Patroned Highway would read (other effects aside): "While this is in play, cards cannot cost less than $1". That is a clear instruction, and playing a normal Highway does not contradict it "Card cannot cost less than $0" is always fulfilled if cards cannot cost less than $1. The other Highway also cannot decrease the value of a card costing $1 since Patroned Highway says that's impossible.
By the way, I think Patron needs to specify how long the coin increase lasts. "Until that card leaves play" seems to work. Otherwise you could assume that the increase is permanent, which is untrackable. It would also have some unresolved issues with Reserves (can I or can I not use this to gain $7 cards with Duplicate?)
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So you play one highway without patron and one with patron, and then you wonder if cards can go below 1 or nor?
I'd say: last played card counts.
I'd say it's very clearly always $1. The Patroned Highway would read (other effects aside): "While this is in play, cards cannot cost less than $1". That is a clear instruction, and playing a normal Highway does not contradict it "Card cannot cost less than $0" is always fulfilled if cards cannot cost less than $1. The other Highway also cannot decrease the value of a card costing $1 since Patroned Highway says that's impossible.
By the way, I think Patron needs to specify how long the coin increase lasts. "Until that card leaves play" seems to work. Otherwise you could assume that the increase is permanent, which is untrackable. It would also have some unresolved issues with Reserves (can I or can I not use this to gain $7 cards with Duplicate?)
Fair explanation. I played Patron as if it said 'until that card leaves play', because it just felt obvious. Probably the maker should have included it. (It's not my card.)
Also: If I remember correctly, you don't *play* reserve cards, you *call* them. Patron specifies that you can only use it when a card is *played*, which is not the same, right?
I think you are right in the first explanation.
The question is: if I raise that coin, does that mean that curses and coppers now cost $1? I think they should, reading it as two separate clauses:
(1) All cards cost one less
(2) no card costs less than $0 (=> $1)
Another way of reading it would be
(1) all cards cost one less and (1B) this effect can not cause cards to cost less than $0 (=> $1)
the latter reading would imply that cards that already cost $0 do not need to be raised though.
What reading would you prefer?
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What reading would you prefer?
I think of it as going step by step through the card text.
So this is what I feel would happen if you played a "normal" Highway.
Step 1: All cards cost 1$ less. Copper now costs -1$.
Step 2: Check if any card costs less than 0$. If yes, adjust price.
With that reading, Patroned Highway would make Coppers cost $1. I can see how you would interpret it differently though.
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What reading would you prefer?
I think of it as going step by step through the card text.
So this is what I feel would happen if you played a "normal" Highway.
Step 1: All cards cost 1$ less. Copper now costs -1$.
Step 2: Check if any card costs less than 0$. If yes, adjust price.
With that reading, Patroned Highway would make Coppers cost $1. I can see how you would interpret it differently though.
That's how I would read it too. But yes, I can imagine reading it differently too. We need a FAQ on this. :D
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I am agreeing with MrAnderson that the rule should be in the rulebook and always set to $0. I am not agreeing this means you can't apply Patron to it. I think it means you have to reword Patron to avoid the issue in the first place.
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Fair explanation. I played Patron as if it said 'until that card leaves play', because it just felt obvious. Probably the maker should have included it. (It's not my card.)
Also: If I remember correctly, you don't *play* reserve cards, you *call* them. Patron specifies that you can only use it when a card is *played*, which is not the same, right?
It doesn't matter if the effect only lasts until the card leaves play. But if it lasts longer, then you could presumably use Patron when you play the Reserve card and apply the effect at that time. Then the card goes to the Tavern mat and retains the Patron effect until called. That would make for some rough tracking.
BTW, if Patron isn't your card, whose is it? Credit should always be given...
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No idea
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Patron (Action-Reaction) 4$
Gain a card costing up to $4.
When you play a card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, add 1 to the number in one [coin icon] on that card until it has been resolved.
With Patron, you can turn a Remodel into an Expand, double the effect of a Bridge/Highway, add +1 to a +coin, etc. Also combines well with itself.
The reaction part is something I've never seen before and I think will be a lot of fun. At worst, this card is a copper.
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Fair explanation. I played Patron as if it said 'until that card leaves play', because it just felt obvious. Probably the maker should have included it. (It's not my card.)
Also: If I remember correctly, you don't *play* reserve cards, you *call* them. Patron specifies that you can only use it when a card is *played*, which is not the same, right?
It doesn't matter if the effect only lasts until the card leaves play. But if it lasts longer, then you could presumably use Patron when you play the Reserve card and apply the effect at that time. Then the card goes to the Tavern mat and retains the Patron effect until called. That would make for some rough tracking.
BTW, if Patron isn't your card, whose is it? Credit should always be given...
Eh, the harder to track part would be play the card, apply the bonus, then shuffle it back in your deck with the bonus still applied. As long as the effect doesn't end, that would be possible, but completely impossible to track.
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Fair explanation. I played Patron as if it said 'until that card leaves play', because it just felt obvious. Probably the maker should have included it. (It's not my card.)
Also: If I remember correctly, you don't *play* reserve cards, you *call* them. Patron specifies that you can only use it when a card is *played*, which is not the same, right?
It doesn't matter if the effect only lasts until the card leaves play. But if it lasts longer, then you could presumably use Patron when you play the Reserve card and apply the effect at that time. Then the card goes to the Tavern mat and retains the Patron effect until called. That would make for some rough tracking.
BTW, if Patron isn't your card, whose is it? Credit should always be given...
Eh, the harder to track part would be play the card, apply the bonus, then shuffle it back in your deck with the bonus still applied. As long as the effect doesn't end, that would be possible, but completely impossible to track.
Well yeah, but presumably it would not last forever for that very reason. Having it last until discarded sounds plausible, which is where it lasting while in the Tavern is a consideration.
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Adrian Healey, I think it's nice and helpful of you to collect and share your experiences with fan cards with the community, but could you please give me credit for including my card Building Crane in this thread? It's been a part of my set Roots and Renewal (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11563.0) for ca. 1.5 years.
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Happily, I lost track of all the sources of all the cards, but I understand this is important. Will be more pro active on this.
Edit: my apologies for neglecting that fact until now.
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Sources:
Patron is by beri (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13800.msg520371#msg520371), as pointed out by yuma.
Auction and Floodgate are by LastFootnote, and i think they are part of Enterprise (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2114.0).
Town (& Road) are by me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9231.0).
Frontier is part of Fragasnap's Greed (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12756.msg473253#msg473253).
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Auction and Floodgate are by LastFootnote, and i think they are part of Enterprise (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2114.0).
I believe that all of LFN's fan cards are part of Enterprise.
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Updates today on: (1) Plantation (Asper/Cookielord, Seasons), (2) Student version 1 (we played again with it), Conclave (looking for origin), Mill (looking for origin).
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Conclave is mine! Though in the most recent version you put the other cards back rather than discarding them.
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Mill is my Cornucopia-fied take at beri's dice-based Gambling Den.
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Ok, Mill is good. Got it slightly later in the game, and gaining $5's for a $3 is pretty good.
Alley was fun, in a game with festival and worker's village.
Band of merry men is a great gainer *and* junker.
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Ok, Mill is good. Got it slightly later in the game, and gaining $5's for a $3 is pretty good.
Alley was fun, in a game with festival and worker's village.
Band of merry men is a great gainer *and* junker.
Did you play with the version of Mill that reveals 6 cards? I settled with that one being the "real" one, partly because after your feedback I put it to the test and felt it might really be too weak with just 5. That was still decent, but I think a Cornucopia-esque card can afford being more than just "decent" when you build the right deck. Menagerie is that way, too.
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Ok, Mill is good. Got it slightly later in the game, and gaining $5's for a $3 is pretty good.
Alley was fun, in a game with festival and worker's village.
Band of merry men is a great gainer *and* junker.
Did you play with the version of Mill that reveals 6 cards? I settled with that one being the "real" one, partly because after your feedback I put it to the test and felt it might really be too weak with just 5. That was still decent, but I think a Cornucopia-esque card can afford being more than just "decent" when you build the right deck. Menagerie is that way, too.
I played the 'reveal 5' card again. But my deck was... very diverse.
(It was a 4 player game, and well, with a 4 player game, I add a couple of houserules: (1) the kingdom is always designed that different engines/strategies are possible (so by design, no slogs and what not), (2) there is one stack that is 20 cards of 2 villages shuffled together (in this case: worker's village and farming village) and (3) there are 12 kingdom cards. (Next time I am also going to add colonies without platinum's. Sure, it's a different game, but it's just as fun. The reason of rule 1 is: If I am going through the trouble of getting out the cards, and sleeving fan cards, this better be a fun game. And engines are generally more fun than slogs or big money.)
But given this kind of kindom, it wasn't that hard to reveal 5 different cards. It's probably still a good idea to have it reveal 6 in a 'normal' kingdom.
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Ok, Mill is good. Got it slightly later in the game, and gaining $5's for a $3 is pretty good.
You might want to look for another name there.
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Ok, Mill is good. Got it slightly later in the game, and gaining $5's for a $3 is pretty good.
Alley was fun, in a game with festival and worker's village.
Band of merry men is a great gainer *and* junker.
Ok, Mill is good. Got it slightly later in the game, and gaining $5's for a $3 is pretty good.
You might want to look for another name there.
It's called Sawmill since the second editions came out.