Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion Online at Shuffle iT => Dominion General Discussion => Dominion Isotropic => Topic started by: rrenaud on January 17, 2012, 02:47:20 pm
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What is this crap?
The level of play on iso is getting pretty damn good.
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What is this crap?
The level of play on iso is getting pretty damn good.
This is the well-known "rating deflation" phenomenon. It tends to happen when you have a close-to-zero-sum rating system applied to a population whose members are mostly improving quickly.
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It seems that, in order to even know that online dominion exists, and to have an account, you seem to have gotten to a point where you know general strategy. Everyone starts on at least a relatively high level. Rarely will I get the level 2 who buys seven secret chambers for no reason.
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What is this crap?
The level of play on iso is getting pretty damn good.
Post the game log at some point.
A while back I lost to a level 1 in a Horn of Plenty game where I'd say I got legitimately outplayed regarding build order. I was kinda puzzled why this guy was level 1 - he's climbed up to the low teens now - but I think the idea was basically that no matter what was out there he was going to try to build some sort of ornate engine. And every now and then the board rewards that.
I suspect that's the main thing. High level players are likely to do reasonably well on most boards. Some low level players will be uniformly mediocre across boards, but some will find lucky boards that play exactly to their strengths where they can be quite good indeed.
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Another explanation could be that these players play a lot in real life and are intricatley familiar with the game and how to choose the best possible strategy, but somehow didn't know about iso, or simply didn't want to play online for some reason.
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Another explanation could be that these players play a lot in real life and are intricatley familiar with the game and how to choose the best possible strategy, but somehow didn't know about iso, or simply didn't want to play online for some reason.
These people don't stay level 1s; they're just underrated by the system. That's not much of a mystery. There are people with hundreds of games logged on isotropic who are not very good but occasionally bust out crazy games.
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Thats not a new phenomenom. Sometimes when I played level 0 players a while ago I only thought "...man, when is he making a mistake finally???" And sometimes they really tend to do the major things like I would play them (not only on BM). Kinda puzzling, but this just happens sometimes :-)
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The level is a lot higher now. It's not just good players with dummy accounts. These forums might even have something to do with it.
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The level is a lot higher now. It's not just good players with dummy accounts. These forums might even have something to do with it.
Yeah. I've had LOTS of people I don't recognize/haven't heard of wishing me luck in the tournament as I played games against them today...
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The level is a lot higher now. It's not just good players with dummy accounts. These forums might even have something to do with it.
Yeah. I've had LOTS of people I don't recognize/haven't heard of wishing me luck in the tournament as I played games against them today...
Ditto that.
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The level is a lot higher now. It's not just good players with dummy accounts. These forums might even have something to do with it.
Yeah. I've had LOTS of people I don't recognize/haven't heard of wishing me luck in the tournament as I played games against them today...
Ditto that.
Lol. Hi :P I was one of the level 0s playing really well recently. Just climbed up to level 17. Also, thanks for the games WW and RJ. Good luck in the tournament to you both ;)
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Lol, I was pretty recently Level 0 too. Maybe in the last few weeks I began reading DS and I'm OK now.
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Also remember that "Level 0" equates to "Level 25 +- 25." Someone as good as a level 30 will play their first 100 or so games getting to level 20 (unless they get extremely lucky). So playing a level 6 might mean you're really playing someone who is 29 +- 23.
The good news is, if you play someone who is 29 +- 23, your ratings change is based on the 29 rather than on the "6."
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Also remember that "Level 0" equates to "Level 25 +- 25." Someone as good as a level 30 will play their first 100 or so games getting to level 20 (unless they get extremely lucky).
It doesn't take that long.
There was another thread on "how long does it take you to reach your level if you had to start anew" and the answer given was that it should be very fast, because that's how the rankings are supposed to work. The empiricist in me decided that I needed to actually try it... check out "half125" on the isotropic leaderboard. There was one bad loss via Ambassador where I really should have done better, but for the most part I think you get to level 20 in far less than 100 games. About 20-30 games should do it.
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The level is a lot higher now. It's not just good players with dummy accounts. These forums might even have something to do with it.
That's somewhat where I'm at. I was stuck at around level 10-15 for the longest time, but have gotten my level up to 20 playing just 2-3 games a night the last week after reading everyone's thoughts and rankings in the rankings thread.
That thread alone has really helped me re-evaluate all the cards.
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The level is a lot higher now. It's not just good players with dummy accounts. These forums might even have something to do with it.
That's somewhat where I'm at. I was stuck at around level 10-15 for the longest time, but have gotten my level up to 20 playing just 2-3 games a night the last week after reading everyone's thoughts and rankings in the rankings thread.
That thread alone has really helped me re-evaluate all the cards.
Hm, rrenaud. So basically it seems this is my fault. ;)
But seriously, this forum really helps a lot, it helped me and will help other players too.
Or, it was a high level player who got a new account.
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The level is a lot higher now. It's not just good players with dummy accounts. These forums might even have something to do with it.
That's somewhat where I'm at. I was stuck at around level 10-15 for the longest time, but have gotten my level up to 20 playing just 2-3 games a night the last week after reading everyone's thoughts and rankings in the rankings thread.
That thread alone has really helped me re-evaluate all the cards.
(Re-)Evaluating cards is an evolutionary thing.
I know I evaluated cards differently after my first 100 games from when I was starting out. Then again after my first 1000 games. And again after the 2000 game mark.
Ambassador: Wait, it gives no money and doesn't draw anything? What good is this?
I've gotten new found love for Explorer however.
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Watching WW stomp someones Governor deck's face with double Merchant Ship was an eye opener for me. This site is good for all of us.
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stomp, really?
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Watching WW pull out a win over Fabian's Governor deck with double Merchant Ship was an eye opener for me. This site is good for all of us.
FYP
I do think Merch ship was right there, but man, it was close.
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<a href=http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120108-190412-7328fea6.html>Stop being modest.</a> The fact that it was against Fabian only makes it that much more impressive.
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I'm $1 from winning that game on turn 13. I think "man, it was close" is a more accurate description of the game.
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My apologies, I stand corrected. Double Merchant winning from second position against an excellent player who opens Governor? Noteworthy, at the least.
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I'm $1 from winning that game on turn 13. I think "man, it was close" is a more accurate description of the game.
If you bought the province on your turn 13, WW would've won on his turn 13 by buying the last province (4 provinces each, WW up by 3 fairgrounds). WW led by at least a province for the whole game.
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He could have Governed one Gold into a Province and bought the last one, for a narrow win. I completely missed this until it was pointed out.
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I'm $1 from winning that game on turn 13. I think "man, it was close" is a more accurate description of the game.
If you bought the province on your turn 13, WW would've won on his turn 13 by buying the last province (4 provinces each, WW up by 3 fairgrounds). WW led by at least a province for the whole game.
He means $1 from getting two provinces. After his first 2 governor draws, he has a governor, gold, 2 silver, and 3 copper. If he trashes the gold, he has 2 silver+3copper = $7 and $1 away from winning the game. The fact he had draws a gold/governor the next turn shows that he had the goods to make that big turn.
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I'm $1 from winning that game on turn 13. I think "man, it was close" is a more accurate description of the game.
If you bought the province on your turn 13, WW would've won on his turn 13 by buying the last province (4 provinces each, WW up by 3 fairgrounds). WW led by at least a province for the whole game.
He means $1 from getting two provinces. After his first 2 governor draws, he has a governor, gold, 2 silver, and 3 copper. If he trashes the gold, he has 2 silver+3copper = $7 and $1 away from winning the game. The fact he had draws a gold/governor the next turn shows that he had the goods to make that big turn.
It also shows that I play bad and deserve to lose (the right play pretty clearly is to draw with the third Governor, as the endgame is pretty much hopeless for me anyway the way I played). If I play like a non-idiot, I win on that turn 60% anyway (if Governor is in the top 3 cards of that 5 card hand from turn 14).
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Counterpoint to this thread: I played this rather straightforward game (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/22/game-20120122-215039-36f9afcc.html) against a Level 26 today. Here's the transcript of our chat:
23:46 A_S00: hi, gl hf
23:46 wangler: you too
23:49 wangler: oh i see
23:50 A_S00: gg
23:50 wangler: nice game
23:50 wangler: cool strat
23:50 A_S00: IW/G is way better than workshop, imo
23:51 wangler: i've actually never seen either
23:51 wangler: but yeah
23:51 wangler has returned to the lobby.
...wat.
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Counterpoint to this thread: I played this rather straightforward game (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/22/game-20120122-215039-36f9afcc.html) against a Level 26 today. Here's the transcript of our chat:
23:46 A_S00: hi, gl hf
23:46 wangler: you too
23:49 wangler: oh i see
23:50 A_S00: gg
23:50 wangler: nice game
23:50 wangler: cool strat
23:50 A_S00: IW/G is way better than workshop, imo
23:51 wangler: i've actually never seen either
23:51 wangler: but yeah
23:51 wangler has returned to the lobby.
...wat.
And yet Im struggling to get to level 10 :(
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And yet Im struggling to get to level 10 :(
Take heart! You're on these forums (which are excellent, BTW) and you're shoing a keen interest in improving (judging from the posts you've made in the "Help!" area). With time, you will improve. Patience is required, though ...
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And yet Im struggling to get to level 10 :(
Take heart! You're on these forums (which are excellent, BTW) and you're shoing a keen interest in improving (judging from the posts you've made in the "Help!" area). With time, you will improve. Patience is required, though ...
I'm at level 17 after trying hard to improve. I actually took a break during the summer months+some of September and went from level 0 to the 10's in no time. Some times a nice break can do wonders for the mind when you come back and look at everything with a fresh view.
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Hey, I'm level 4 and just won a game where I managed to get 5 provinces on turn 11. :)
Late last year I was around level 15, but around the holiday season my ability to play dropped drastically because I got busy, so the 30-day limit on games dropped me all the way back down to level 0 and I'm working my way back up. When I first started playing on Isotropic (last fall) I had no idea about how deep this game really was, and had only really played it a few times, mostly at conventions like Dragon*Con. I lost a LOT at first, and my overall record is still pretty crappy, but I've definitely been improving. Sometimes I still get a board that I just don't know what to do with, or my opponent busts out a strategy that I didn't see and which totally trumps mine, but I think I'm improving a lot. Finding this blog and these forums totally changed how I think about the game.
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The level is a lot higher now. It's not just good players with dummy accounts. These forums might even have something to do with it.
Yeah. I've had LOTS of people I don't recognize/haven't heard of wishing me luck in the tournament as I played games against them today...
Ditto that.
Lol. Hi :P I was one of the level 0s playing really well recently. Just climbed up to level 17. Also, thanks for the games WW and RJ. Good luck in the tournament to you both ;)
It's a competition? :D
Ok, I joined isotropic because I've heard about a "big dominon tournament" on Theory Blog (which I was following).
I was playing a lot with friends both in real life and on BretSpielWelt (now I usually can't play with my friends because I always win -.-'')
I registered on isotropic and just played 3-4 matches in order to understand how the interface works... I was not trying to play good, just asking to people how to use the interface, and obviously I lost all games, no problems.
I registered to the big tournament that is going to end now and I discovered that the initial seed depends of ranking... 6.952... LOL!!
My first (and unique) turn was against a 40 level player (nomnomnom) and I was beaten 4-1 (let's say 2 matches he won was well fighted and with better luck I could have been 3-2 for him or, with good luck 3-2 for me)
I started to play a lot and now I'm level 27, ascending every day, skill 36.309. In that tournament I will be ranked today 46, giving me 2 "virtually easy" turns.
It was fun, when I was low-level, to fight against some mid level players that don't expect I'm underrated... and now I usually don't play against player who are not in +-10 or 15 levels from me (except great, over 40 players... yesterday I had the honor of losing a game against WanderingWinder while watching one of his great videos ^_^)
My next goal is level 30 and, obviously, next big tournament!
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6 Provinces in 15 turns by a level 0 (7.716 ± 9.886) guy??? What the hell???
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/27/game-20120127-173451-8a1eb16b.html
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Here's a nice one by a lvl 10:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/17/game-20120217-094139-c9a00eb9.html
4 Provinces and a Duchy in 12 turns... I could have Expanded my Gold into a Province and bought a Duchy the turn before instead of buying the Province, but I was sure the game was going to last a little longer and I'd be needing that Gold... ouch
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Doesn't it work that if you dont play for so long you drop back down as it only looks at last 30 days or something?
So could be an awesome player making a big come back?
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Here's a nice one by a lvl 10:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/17/game-20120217-094139-c9a00eb9.html
4 Provinces and a Duchy in 12 turns... I could have Expanded my Gold into a Province and bought a Duchy the turn before instead of buying the Province, but I was sure the game was going to last a little longer and I'd be needing that Gold... ouch
I don't know why, but I really like that he could have either Upgraded an Expand or Expanded an Upgrade for that last province. I think it would have taken me a couple minutes to decide.
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Here's a nice one by a lvl 10:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/17/game-20120217-094139-c9a00eb9.html
4 Provinces and a Duchy in 12 turns... I could have Expanded my Gold into a Province and bought a Duchy the turn before instead of buying the Province, but I was sure the game was going to last a little longer and I'd be needing that Gold... ouch
I don't know why, but I really like that he could have either Upgraded an Expand or Expanded an Upgrade for that last province. I think it would have taken me a couple minutes to decide.
We can't see what he drew but Upgrading the expand gives you an extra card to use so it's generally better if you dont expect to see either card again.