Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Elanchana on December 13, 2015, 01:22:13 am
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I'm sure all of us have had at least one game where you're in the middle of your winning turn, you have your plays set up and ready to go, and then... misclick. Out of seemingly nowhere, your treasures are flashing, or your hand is a few cards larger than it should be, or cards are flashing red to be trashed, or whatever. And suddenly this game that you had in the bag is lost forever.
There have been times for me when games like that have ruined my day. Sometimes, when it's bad enough, I ask my opponent to resign and throw the game. I feel like it's not an unreasonable request - if I explain exactly what the problem was and that I was indisputably about to win, they could sympathize and let me have the win that I would have already had anyway. Nobody's taken me up on that so far, and I guess I don't blame them, but... ya know? If someone was about to beat me and botched their turn that badly, I'd kinda have to take pity on them.
So what do you think? Are there any situations where you'd ask for your opponent to throw the game, or where you'd throw a game for them? Is knowing that you had the win before enough or do you want it on record?
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My first answer is to not play online. But that is just my preferred format anyways.
If my opponent sees my play leading to that, or I am able to share a screenshot with them, I may try to convince them to "start over" by resigning. (I also rarely play rated games, so I don't know how bad ratings suffer on resigning.)
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Try not to let it bother you. You know you played better than your opponent that game. Your rating is just a number. The worst consequence of the game being counted as a loss is that you may be matched with players with a slightly lower rating than the players you would've been matched with if it had been a win on your record.
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I don't remember ever losing a game of Dominion just because of a misclick (I've been greatly disadvantaged by misclicks for sure, though).
But, I do remember an Arena game of Hearthstone (@ non-HS players: it costs in-game currency to enter the Arena and you get rewards based on how well you do, so they're actually pretty important games) that I was playing on my friend's account because we play a lot of Arena together because he wants to get better at it so we alternate between whose account we play on. I had lethal damage (i.e. what should have been a guaranteed victory) but accidentally attacked a minion instead of my opponent and then the opponent was able to stabilize and won that game. So it was extra embarrassing because it was an important game, and it wasn't even my own account that I was hurting because of the misclick.
And it was hilarious, we were laughing non-stop for minutes after that, and over the weekend we had a lot of fun because of it.
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Just accept the results. Another opponent will make similar mistakes another time.
I think it is far enough after the time now, so I can mention an A league game where the opponent had won, entirely, and then bought curses with his remaining buys just to ... well invent your own reason. He then lost, perhaps on tied score. It certainly ruined his day and made him feel miserable. What do you do about that? It is more than miss click. There's probably always going to be a grey area about what should be done to 'rectify' a result and unless someone volunteers to do so I don't think you should ask them.
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I play exclusively IRL, so I'll never lose by misclicking.
I have, however, played suboptimally in games I had a strong chance of winning, for various reasons. Sometimes the game is taking longer than expected and I'll try to end the game on piles so I can do something else even if it costs me a win.
And then sometimes I'll try a high-risk strategy knowing there's a good chance I'd win with a less risky one, just to a) try something new and b) make sure my wife doesn't always lose or she'll stop playing with me.
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I would never ever ask my opponent to resign. In my eyes, it is bad manner to do so. Why should someone be punished for my mistakes or why should I be punished for their mistakes?
You win a game not only with better skills in theory but also by solid execution of your game plan in practice. Misclicks are unfortunate, a consequence of unthoughtfulness and maybe you get upset but they are no reason for whining. OK, you can whine about MF's bad Online Dominion User Interface but that's not your opponent's fault. ;)
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Yeah, I don't think asking someone to resign is the correct thing to do. If they see your mistake and realize that it costs you the game and resign on their own initiative, then you know they are a cool person. I just don't think it is fair to put someone in the situation of you asking them to resign.
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Clicking is part of the game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyJU8dpm7hM&t=13m35s)
Edit: had to make a it link so it would go to the correct time.
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Clicking is part of the game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyJU8dpm7hM&t=13m35s)
Edit: had to make a it link so it would go to the correct time.
Nice one! ;D
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If my opponent misclicks in a situation where he would certainly win otherwise, I resign the game. But that's just me, I don't expect this from anyone else (although I don't mind either). I also would be somewhat offended if my opponent explicitly asks for my resignation. You can tell me what happened, the rest is up to me.
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It's perfectly fine to request your opponent's resignation but you gotta be consistent with it. I personally like a T1 "You're going to lose anyway so why not be nice and save us both some time?"
Even if they decline it puts the pressure on them right from the beginning.
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It's perfectly fine to request your opponent's resignation but you gotta be consistent with it. I personally like a T1 "You're going to lose anyway so why not be nice and save us both some time?"
Even if they decline it puts the pressure on them right from the beginning.
"Oh you're just asking to be slow-rolled, aren't you?"
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It's perfectly fine to request your opponent's resignation but you gotta be consistent with it. I personally like a T1 "You're going to lose anyway so why not be nice and save us both some time?"
Even if they decline it puts the pressure on them right from the beginning.
"Oh you're just asking to be slow-rolled, aren't you?"
Now you know why SCSN invented Blitz Dominion.
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It's perfectly fine to request your opponent's resignation but you gotta be consistent with it. I personally like a T1 "You're going to lose anyway so why not be nice and save us both some time?"
Even if they decline it puts the pressure on them right from the beginning.
"Oh you're just asking to be slow-rolled, aren't you?"
Now you know why SCSN invented Blitz Dominion.
Guilty as charged!
The recipe is as simple as it is devious:
1. Get them riled up to the point that their personal pride won't allow the turning down of a simple challenge.
2. Propose a Blitz game.
3. ???
4. Profit.
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Nice responses (the sincere ones anyway). I totally agree that in most cases asking for a resignation is inappropriate, since mostly there's no way for your opponent to know how close you were to winning. It's certainly unnecessary when you misclick outside of a crucial move (same effect as bad luck and you might even recover) and when it's a careless oversight instead of a misclick (even though seeing the forced win a second too late is painful as hell).
About the "why should they be punished for my mistakes" thing though - sure it's not my opponent's fault that the I accidentally hit the wrong button (or even worse, I DID click on the right thing but the click didn't register somehow), but my question is why should they profit from a simple fluke on my part? Stealing a win from an accidentally botched winning move can't not be a bit malicious.
And I should go now before I use another parenthesis.
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Nice responses (the sincere ones anyway). I totally agree that in most cases asking for a resignation is inappropriate, since mostly there's no way for your opponent to know how close you were to winning. It's certainly unnecessary when you misclick outside of a crucial move (same effect as bad luck and you might even recover) and when it's a careless oversight instead of a misclick (even though seeing the forced win a second too late is painful as hell).
About the "why should they be punished for my mistakes" thing though - sure it's not my opponent's fault that the I accidentally hit the wrong button (or even worse, I DID click on the right thing but the click didn't register somehow), but my question is why should they profit from a simple fluke on my part? Stealing a win from an accidentally botched winning move can't not be a bit malicious.
And I should go now before I use another parenthesis.
Eh, there's no actual profit though. Rating? Who cares?
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About the "why should they be punished for my mistakes" thing though - sure it's not my opponent's fault that the I accidentally hit the wrong button (or even worse, I DID click on the right thing but the click didn't register somehow), but my question is why should they profit from a simple fluke on my part? Stealing a win from an accidentally botched winning move can't not be a bit malicious.
This part sounds very selfish to me, like sore loser. No one steals your win, you just give it away. There is no question about profit!
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About the "why should they be punished for my mistakes" thing though - sure it's not my opponent's fault that the I accidentally hit the wrong button (or even worse, I DID click on the right thing but the click didn't register somehow), but my question is why should they profit from a simple fluke on my part?
Why shouldn't they? That's how the game works. Some games, such as FPSs, are entirely based on the concept of clicking on the right things and losing when you don't. In Dominion Online, it's a very minor element of the game, it's probably not intentional, and it doesn't really make it a better game, but it's somewhat present nonetheless. That is the game that Dominion Online actually is, and to quote Sirlin from one of the few good things he has published*,
A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about.
*might actually be the only good thing he has published AFAIK
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Nice responses (the sincere ones anyway).
Eh, the insincere responses are nice too. Jokes are okay and they make my day brighter.
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Separately, my favorite throwing game is Frisbee.
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Nice responses (the sincere ones anyway). I totally agree that in most cases asking for a resignation is inappropriate, since mostly there's no way for your opponent to know how close you were to winning. It's certainly unnecessary when you misclick outside of a crucial move (same effect as bad luck and you might even recover) and when it's a careless oversight instead of a misclick (even though seeing the forced win a second too late is painful as hell).
About the "why should they be punished for my mistakes" thing though - sure it's not my opponent's fault that the I accidentally hit the wrong button (or even worse, I DID click on the right thing but the click didn't register somehow), but my question is why should they profit from a simple fluke on my part? Stealing a win from an accidentally botched winning move can't not be a bit malicious.
And I should go now before I use another parenthesis.
Eh, there's no actual profit though. Rating? Who cares?
If you consider the amount of wins you get from an opponent's misclick, then you might find it all balances out anyway, and maybe your opponent doesn't bother telling you about them.
I consider misclicking potential as "part of the game", since all players are subject to it. You say your opponents don't deserve the win in the cases you describe, but is that really a fair assessment when they put in the effort not to misclick thrmselves?
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A mis-click is the same as any other mental blunder. People lose things far more substantial than Dominion games with ridiculous mental blunders all the time. Awarding the person who committed such a blunder is far more unfair to the one who didn't commit the blunder than it is the other way around.
American Football example that happened last year: University of Utah versus University of Oregon. Utah receiver has clear path to a touchdown but decides to start celebrating before he reaches the endzone and drops the ball at the one yard line. He clearly was going to score with an unimpeded path. Oregon picks up the ball and runs 99 yards the other way for a touchdown. Should Oregon now refuse to take the points and give Utah the points? Not really how it works.
I would find it laughable if someone asked me to Resign from a game that they were about to win and didn't because of a mental, or physical, error on their part. If the game was close enough that it hung in the balance of that particular turn, you better finish it off.
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I've told this story before, but back on Isotropic, I misclicked and passed my opponent a Colony. I didn't ask him to resign or anything, but I told him that it was a misclick. And, on the next Masquerade play, he passed me one back. Great sportsmanship.
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I'll agree with others here. You can tell them it was a mis-click, and what your situation was...and if they offer to resign or do something to compensate, well, that's very sporting of them. But asking, complaining, or otherwise pressuring them to do so would be impolite. You take your lumps, and click more carefully next time.
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Clicking is part of the game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyJU8dpm7hM&t=13m35s)
Edit: had to make a it link so it would go to the correct time.
WanderingWinder's evil laugh. I rest my case. (Though he did offer to throw it for you!)
For considering the opponents to be profiting off misclicks, I guess I'm the minority. It does look like a few of you are willing to give it to them, but... eh.
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I generally don't resign if someone demands for me to, but if they ask politely or don't say anything at all I might. It depends on the situation, and I definitely wouldn't ask anyone else to throw a game.
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I used to have really unstable internet, which often would result in me being unable to move and the game effectively frozen. I'd almost always resign, even if I was far ahead and it was clear I was going to win. Trying to convince the opponent to resign didn't seem worth the effort and also kinda rude.
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For considering the opponents to be profiting off misclicks, I guess I'm the minority. It does look like a few of you are willing to give it to them, but... eh.
To frame it another way:
- You can't make them resign, so your ability to get your desired outcome is entirely dependent on their goodwill.
- Asking or pressuring them to resign is likely to cost you their goodwill.
- Goodwill is a lot harder to earn than rating points.
Therefore, sacrificing goodwill for a slim chance of getting a few rating points is a bad play.
Make the good play.
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If you are skilled enough, or play often enough, the ratings should be only minimally affected by mis-plays.
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I have asked on a T1 misclick (discarding my $5 opener) when I tabbed back into Dominion if they would be willing to just wait until T3 to actually start the game (i.e. neither of us buy anything until T4). When they refused I resigned because they clearly cared much more about points than I did.
I will tell my opponents about misclicks, not so much to get the win, but so we can, maybe, try to mitigate the click and undo the damage if they want a challenging game more than the win. E.g. I have had and have offered to opponents to buy nothing this turn when we are both drawing deck when they misclick & play draw before village.
Winning is far less interesting than a challenging game, but at least the interface seems to be improving so this isn't as common.
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I will tell my opponents about misclicks, not so much to get the win, but so we can, maybe, try to mitigate the click and undo the damage if they want a challenging game more than the win. E.g. I have had and have offered to opponents to buy nothing this turn when we are both drawing deck when they misclick & play draw before village.
Winning is far less interesting than a challenging game, but at least the interface seems to be improving so this isn't as common.
What I would like to see is an "Undo" feature, that lets the active player back out their plays as long as those plays have not revealed any new information to that player.
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I will tell my opponents about misclicks, not so much to get the win, but so we can, maybe, try to mitigate the click and undo the damage if they want a challenging game more than the win. E.g. I have had and have offered to opponents to buy nothing this turn when we are both drawing deck when they misclick & play draw before village.
Winning is far less interesting than a challenging game, but at least the interface seems to be improving so this isn't as common.
What I would like to see is an "Undo" feature, that lets the active player back out their plays as long as those plays have not revealed any new information to that player.
Oh cool, I also like science fiction! What do you think of Asimov? He's one of my favourite writers.
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I will tell my opponents about misclicks, not so much to get the win, but so we can, maybe, try to mitigate the click and undo the damage if they want a challenging game more than the win. E.g. I have had and have offered to opponents to buy nothing this turn when we are both drawing deck when they misclick & play draw before village.
Winning is far less interesting than a challenging game, but at least the interface seems to be improving so this isn't as common.
What I would like to see is an "Undo" feature, that lets the active player back out their plays as long as those plays have not revealed any new information to that player.
Don't we ALL. If only the MF team didn't (apparently) need to destroy the entire program to put that in.
Someone smack me and yell "RATING POINTS ARE BS AND STOP BASING YOUR MOOD OFF THEM, ELA!" It's not like I feel much sense of accomplishment when I beat someone who misclicks or misses a forced win or something, so the only thing that's keeping me from not minding being screwed over by the interface when I otherwise play pretty dang well is that stupid number.
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I will tell my opponents about misclicks, not so much to get the win, but so we can, maybe, try to mitigate the click and undo the damage if they want a challenging game more than the win. E.g. I have had and have offered to opponents to buy nothing this turn when we are both drawing deck when they misclick & play draw before village.
Winning is far less interesting than a challenging game, but at least the interface seems to be improving so this isn't as common.
What I would like to see is an "Undo" feature, that lets the active player back out their plays as long as those plays have not revealed any new information to that player.
Oh cool, I also like science fiction! What do you think of Asimov? He's one of my favourite writers.
This is no sci-fi! If I slap down a Candlestick Maker and then think better of it and take him back, what information have I gained?
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What I would like to see is an "Undo" feature, that lets the active player back out their plays as long as those plays have not revealed any new information to that player.
Oh cool, I also like science fiction! What do you think of Asimov? He's one of my favourite writers.
I write CAD software in my day job. It has Undo capabilities. If we can undo CAD modifications in a model, MF should be able to undo a card play; it's just a matter of checkpointing the state...and the state of a Dominion board is a heck of a lot smaller than the state of a CAD model.
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So, I was the only one disappointed there was nothing about knives, midgets, or dunk booths in here?
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What I would like to see is an "Undo" feature, that lets the active player back out their plays as long as those plays have not revealed any new information to that player.
Oh cool, I also like science fiction! What do you think of Asimov? He's one of my favourite writers.
I write CAD software in my day job. It has Undo capabilities. If we can undo CAD modifications in a model, MF should be able to undo a card play; it's just a matter of checkpointing the state...and the state of a Dominion board is a heck of a lot smaller than the state of a CAD model.
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Apparently the joke didn't get through, sorry. I meant that MF won't ever implement it, not that that would be hard/impossible given the state of the art of programming.
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<smack>
RATING POINTS ARE BS AND STOP BASING YOUR MOOD OFF THEM, ELA!
(I can't believe no one did this yet)
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<smack>
RATING POINTS ARE BS AND STOP BASING YOUR MOOD OFF THEM, ELA!
(I can't believe no one did this yet)
Uhhh, in the second reply, you said it:
Try not to let it bother you. You know you played better than your opponent that game. Your rating is just a number.
:P