Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Variants and Fan Cards => Topic started by: Tombolo on August 05, 2015, 07:32:37 am

Title: Trash from the Supply- any of these ideas work?
Post by: Tombolo on August 05, 2015, 07:32:37 am
Wasteland
$4 Victory-Action
+1 Action
You may trash up to three cards that are not victory cards from the supply.
-
Worth 1 VP for every 10 cards in the trash.

Judgment
$0* Action (I don't know how you gain it but there obviously shouldn't be multiples)
You may trash this card.  If you do, trash a pile from the supply.

Missionary
$3 Action
+$2
You may trash up to 3 non-victory cards from the supply.

I figured it was an interesting design space- aside from the obvious concept of accelerating the end of game, you can use it to deny a key card for somebody's engine, or take the sting out of junking attacks.  Trashing Provinces seems a bit too swingy, hence the ban on trashing greens.  I bet somebody's beat me to the idea, but oh well!
Title: Re: Trash from the Supply- any of these ideas work?
Post by: Asper on August 05, 2015, 08:45:39 am
I once did an alt-VP that trashed a Province from the supply when bought, and another VP card that gave points for cards in the trash. It was pointed out counting cards in the trash would behave really different depending on the number of players, which made me stop pursuing the idea further. That's not to say there's no idea to fix it up.

I think trashing an entire pile is too much. Embargo does a similar thing (deny your opponents a card) while being much more reasonable.

I'm not sure Missionary is strong enough, but i think 3 cards are a bit much.
Title: Re: Trash from the Supply- any of these ideas work?
Post by: Jack Rudd on August 05, 2015, 09:37:07 am
These cards look very strong in conjunction with Fortress.
Title: Re: Trash from the Supply- any of these ideas work?
Post by: LastFootnote on August 05, 2015, 10:50:43 am
One big problem with trashing from the Supply is that deciding which cards to trash is time consuming because the decision often matters so little. Which is weird, but there it is. I think there are a few ways around it.

1. Make Supply trashing one option in a choose-X. This way players can ignore the Supply trashing part until it benefits them.
2. Restrict what can be trashed from the Supply (more than non-Action). Like Asper's alt-VP card that trashed a Province from the Supply on-buy.
3. Have the rest of the card provide a strong direction in terms of what you want to trash. I don't have any examples here, unfortunately.

Donald tried an alt-VP card that counted stuff in the trash early on. Based on his experience, I'm convinced that alt-VP card that count non-deck stuff—and are therefore worth the same for everybody—are unlikely to be popular. I mean some concepts can be fixed up, but I think this particular concept is a dud.
Title: Re: Trash from the Supply- any of these ideas work?
Post by: shmeur on August 06, 2015, 01:15:53 am
How about this Peddler/Junk Dealer variant ?

Recycle - Action - $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may trash a card from the kingdom.  If you do +$1
Title: Re: Trash from the Supply- any of these ideas work?
Post by: thespaceinvader on August 06, 2015, 06:33:34 am
How about this Peddler/Junk Dealer variant ?

Recycle - Action - $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may trash a card from the kingdom.  If you do +$1
Usually it's just a £5 peddler, which is pretty lame.  In most kingdoms it's just going to trash coppers and curses and the trashing part will make almost no difference.  IN the kingdoms where it does matter (Fortress, a few other trashing type kingdoms, any kingdom where you can get ahead enough that starting to trash provinces /colonies to speed up the endgame is beneficial) it seems likely to be pretty strong.  SO early in the game, pretty expensive for what it is (Bazaar is the same price, Tournament costs one less and comes with a bigger benefit), late in the game and in certain kingdoms, very cheap.

Basically very situational at best.  Its interaction with things like Trade Route would also need to be clarified.

Trashing from the supply generally seems to be a tough concept to make work, because it most cases it's doing something which doesn't directly benefit the person playing the card - it's likely either to have a similar benefit for everyone, or not to benefit anyone.

It's probably worth a playtest, but I'm not convinced.
Title: Re: Trash from the Supply- any of these ideas work?
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 06, 2015, 09:14:28 am
How about this Peddler/Junk Dealer variant ?

Recycle - Action - $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may trash a card from the kingdom.  If you do +$1
I think the problem with this card is that if you build a good deck, that draws itself every time, you can end the game whenever you're ahead of you have like 5 or 6 of these by just trashing the provinces. End game control is super powerful and I think this gives too much power.
Title: Re: Trash from the Supply- any of these ideas work?
Post by: shmeur on August 07, 2015, 07:00:45 am
How about this Peddler/Junk Dealer variant ?

Recycle - Action - $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may trash a card from the kingdom.  If you do +$1
I think the problem with this card is that if you build a good deck, that draws itself every time, you can end the game whenever you're ahead of you have like 5 or 6 of these by just trashing the provinces. End game control is super powerful and I think this gives too much power.
Aren't Provinces/Coppers/Curses not considered part of the kingdom?  Semantics I guess.  I thought kingdom meant just the 10 (or 11 with YW) cards.  That's what I mean.  Otherwise then just Action cards.  Not sure it makes much difference though.