Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Game Reports => Topic started by: svenisntb on January 26, 2015, 12:02:56 am

Title: How to beat Stef in 8 turns...
Post by: svenisntb on January 26, 2015, 12:02:56 am
Kingdom:
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7f/Mining_Village.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Mining Village) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/70/Rats.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Rats) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/2b/Remake.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Remake) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/9/98/Library.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Library) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/3b/Possession.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Possession)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/d/df/Hamlet.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Hamlet) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/79/Squire.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Squire) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/70/Sage.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Sage) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/e/e7/Swindler.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Swindler) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/76/Ironworks.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Ironworks)
Code: [Select]
Hamlet, Squire, Sage, Swindler, Ironworks, Mining Village, Rats, Remake, Library, Possession

Log: http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20150124/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1422150906779.txt

Viewer: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150124/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1422150906779.txt

Answer, perfect shuffle luck and swindler hits. As my first time playing anyone in the top 10 this was a pretty fun experience.

As I was looking more closely though, I was thinking about the possibility of using Possession to piggy back my deck. My thought was play through the whole deck, discarding only victory and treasure cards. Reshuffle mid-turn and draw until there are only 5 cards left in the draw pile. At that point I will draw a garbage hand and as long as he can play possession every turn I will be permanently locked out of my own deck. I don't think there was enough time for Stef to recover and get a possession focused engine up before I could get 50% of the VP, but I think there is a chance. Also, possessed swindlers help him by letting him undo at least some of the damage I had been doing.

On a different note, library turn 3 seemed a bit early to me, just because I wanted to gain a lot of hamlets and squires, so I went ironworks. Thoughts?

Also, is hamlet strictly better in these kinds of decks? Or does squire have a place as well, mostly because of the +1 coin?
Title: Re: How to beat Stef in 8 turns...
Post by: Dingan on January 26, 2015, 08:31:03 am
Quote from: svenisntb on January 26, 2015, 12:02:56 am
Answer, perfect shuffle luck and swindler hits

Anyone can beat anyone with these 2 things.  Especially gotta love it when this happens:
Stef - plays Swindler
Svenisntb - reveals Overgrown Estate

Well played though.  I wonder if opening Swindler/Ironworks is better than Swindler/Remake here though.  Other than that, pretty flawless on both sides, just difference in luck.
Title: Re: How to beat Stef in 8 turns...
Post by: Seprix on January 27, 2015, 12:12:56 am
I believe you want an Ironworks ASAP, to the point where I'd consider Ironworks/Swindler. Why? Because Hamlet/Library is a thing. You can buy up a bunch of cantrips, and just get a few Swindlers (+actions with Hamlet and Library draw) to feed your eventual 3-pile, I would think. But then again, thinning is hwinning, so Remake is probably good on first turn after all, especially since you are playing with ruins for Estates, which means free Hamlets later on.

You can buy Squires for +buy (and the coin), and to possibly trash into Swindlers for piling. This board seems kind of fun.

Is Possession a thing here? Seems worth investing in after you've cleaned up your deck, but Swindler might hit that Potion into a Rats. That would suck.

I see that Rats can be trashed by Remake into Libraries or Duchies later on, but that's pretty flamboyant and slow, so eh. I still will find a use for those blasted Rats yet!!!!!!!
Title: Re: How to beat Stef in 8 turns...
Post by: flies on January 27, 2015, 01:20:19 pm
Quote from: svenisntb on January 26, 2015, 12:02:56 am
Viewer (Not working for me): https...

replace https with http.  i dno't know why this hasn't been fixed, as it's been wrong for a while, but the workaround isn't too cumbersome.
Title: Re: How to beat Stef in 8 turns...
Post by: svenisntb on January 27, 2015, 09:37:44 pm
Quote from: Dingan on January 26, 2015, 08:31:03 am
Quote from: svenisntb on January 26, 2015, 12:02:56 am
Answer, perfect shuffle luck and swindler hits

Anyone can beat anyone with these 2 things.  Especially gotta love it when this happens:
Stef - plays Swindler
Svenisntb - reveals Overgrown Estate

Right, perfect luck and a good strategy will beat awful luck and an optimal strategy on most boards. Him hitting the Overgrown Estate was a nice bonus for sure. Especially when it was followed immediately by:
Svenisntb - trashes Overgrown Estate
Svenisntb - draws Ironworks

Drawing the Ironworks there not only let me play it a turn earlier, but also prevented it from missing the reshuffle!

Quote from: Dingan on January 26, 2015, 08:31:03 am
Well played though.  I wonder if opening Swindler/Ironworks is better than Swindler/Remake here though.  Other than that, pretty flawless on both sides, just difference in luck.

I think thinning has to be better than gaining more villages with Ironworks at first, especially because shelters go into hamlets/squires with remake. This is even more so because there were 2 piles of 2 cost villages. Villages aren't going to be the choke point. The game is basically going to go to whoever starts cycling consistently through their deck first and I think trashing out the coppers (and curses) is going to be huge for that.
Title: Re: How to beat Stef in 8 turns...
Post by: svenisntb on January 27, 2015, 09:52:35 pm
Quote from: Seprix on January 27, 2015, 12:12:56 am
I believe you want an Ironworks ASAP, to the point where I'd consider Ironworks/Swindler. Why? Because Hamlet/Library is a thing. You can buy up a bunch of cantrips, and just get a few Swindlers (+actions with Hamlet and Library draw) to feed your eventual 3-pile, I would think. But then again, thinning is hwinning, so Remake is probably good on first turn after all, especially since you are playing with ruins for Estates, which means free Hamlets later on.

You can buy Squires for +buy (and the coin), and to possibly trash into Swindlers for piling. This board seems kind of fun.

Yes, Library/Hamlet is a thing. Hamlets give you the +actions and +buys, are cantrips in a pinch and can reduce your handsize by up to 2 if you want. The reason I like squires too though is sometimes engines with just hamlets and libraries can turn into a kind of village idiot scenario, where you draw through your whole deck no problem, but have no payload. The squires you play along the way also reduce your handsize but ensure there is some economy left in the deck.

Also, squires are a soft counter to Swindlers, you hit my squire? I'll take a Swindler.

Quote from: Seprix on January 27, 2015, 12:12:56 am
Is Possession a thing here? Seems worth investing in after you've cleaned up your deck, but Swindler might hit that Potion into a Rats. That would suck.

I don't know. I don't know if the game is going to last long enough for possessions to be worth it. My plan was just to get 5 swindlers or something and try to damage his deck faster than he could repair it. Copper => Curse, Hamlet => Estate, Swindler => Sage, Remake => Rats, Library => Duchy.

Quote from: Seprix on January 27, 2015, 12:12:56 am
I see that Rats can be trashed by Remake into Libraries or Duchies later on, but that's pretty flamboyant and slow, so eh. I still will find a use for those blasted Rats yet!!!!!!!

Yeah, rats probably too slow here. There just isn't going to be anything you want to trash if you remake early and often. By turn 8 I have just 2 copper in my deck that I'd want to get rid of, literally every other card in my deck is better than Rats. Good luck finding a use for Rats, when you find one, let me know... :P
Title: Re: How to beat Stef in 8 turns...
Post by: svenisntb on January 27, 2015, 09:54:21 pm
Quote from: flies on January 27, 2015, 01:20:19 pm
Quote from: svenisntb on January 26, 2015, 12:02:56 am
Viewer (Not working for me): https...

replace https with http.  i dno't know why this hasn't been fixed, as it's been wrong for a while, but the workaround isn't too cumbersome.

Thanks!
Title: Re: How to beat Stef in 8 turns...
Post by: dondon151 on January 27, 2015, 10:40:55 pm
Quote from: Seprix on January 27, 2015, 12:12:56 am
I believe you want an Ironworks ASAP, to the point where I'd consider Ironworks/Swindler.

No you wouldn't. Remake trashes Shelters into $2s and you'll still have $2 to buy something with.