Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Puzzles and Challenges => Topic started by: Seprix on December 16, 2014, 02:32:05 pm
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How many Estates can you possibly get in one turn playing only one action? Curses? What if you had two actions? What would change then? Please note that the Estate and Curse pile are infinite. If you can gain 100 estates, then it's possible.
LIMITS:
Your hand must only have 5 cards in it at the start of the turn. No turn shenanigans like Possession or Caravan or Outpost.
You can set your draw deck to be anything you want, and the discard pile is empty.
Playing KC and TR counts as one action.
Playing Golem counts as one action, and any actions played via Golem count as well, making Golem (as far as I can tell) moot.
Standard rules apply here, meaning that if you use a Terminal first, you're out of actions.
You do not start with any coin tokens, pirate coins, etc. Think of this turn like it is your first turn.
Embargo tokens are not applicable except if you have an Embargo card in hand and apply it before buying.
For Estates (one action), I have conceived of this scenario:
HAND: Hunting Grounds, Hunting Grounds, Hunting Grounds, Hunting Grounds, Chapel
Total: 12 Estates
For Estates (two actions), I have conceived of this scenario:
HAND: Hunting Grounds, Hunting Grounds, Hunting Grounds, Hunting Grounds, Chapel
Total: 12 Estates
I do not think that 12 Estates can be improved upon with this scenario, so the first question is this: Will the answer change with 3 actions played? Did I miss something with 2 actions that gives more than 12 possible Estates? Remember that Talisman and Stonemason do not work as they gain non-victory cards (or at least for Stonemason, action cards).
As for curses...
Curses (one action):
HAND: Talisman, Talisman, Talisman, Talisman, Sir Martin/Squire
Play Sir Martin/Squire with 2 buys. With each buy, you gain an extra 4 curses with every curse buy.
Total: 10 Curses
Can you top that? Note that since Talisman only forbids Victory cards, and Curses are NOT Victory cards, it stands to reason that Talisman can work in this instance.
Curses (with 2 actions):
HAND: King's Court, Sir Martin/Squire, Talisman, Talisman, Talisman
You King's Court a Sir Martin/Squire with 2 buys, and the Talisman count is at 3 curses per 6 buys.
Total: 24 curses
The second question here follows the first question in scope. Is there a better possible Curse gaining function for 1 or 2 actions? If not, there remains some interesting follow-ups with 3 actions. Obviously King's Court comes into play, and you would likely King's Court a Squire (which is the better buy at this point over Sir Martin for it's Action giving ability) to gain +4 buys and +2 Actions, leading into the next card in your hand (with Talisman, Talisman, and Hunting Grounds), to play Hunting Grounds for 4 Talismans, leading to a 6 Talisman count per 4 buys, meaning a count total of 28 Curses. So my second question here is thus: Is it possible to gain more curses than a standard KC/Squire/Talisman/Hunting Grounds deck with every subsequent action increase?
In conclusion, the questions posed here are:
1. Can you gain more Estates in a 1-2 action setting than I proposed?
2. Can you change the total of Estates gained with 3 actions? With 4?
3. Can you gain more curses in a 1-2 action setting than I proposed?
4. Can you gain more Curses than a simple KC/Squire/Talisman/Hunting Grounds deck (using at least one different action) as you increase the number of Actions allowed? Remember that Using Golem uses 1 action by itself, and any actions it uses count as actions as well.
I bet this could all be solved with Math and Logic. :p
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I can get 40 estates with two actions:
Action 1: Scrying pool, drawing 10 catacombs and 10 HG and forge
Action 2: Forge everything.
Curses: Note that your scenario allows for playing treasures and buying, and also gets 15. I can get 105:
Hand: 4 talisman, squire. Curses are embargoed 30 times. Each time I buy a curse I get 34 more.
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I can gain 40 estates with 0 actions. Use my 4857638476259346798567 coin tokens, overpay for Doctor, trash 10 Catacombs and 10 Hunting Grounds.
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I can gain 40 estates with 0 actions. Use my 4857638476259346798567 coin tokens, overpay for Doctor, trash 10 Catacombs and 10 Hunting Grounds.
Okay, okay. I'll make a clause for zero coin tokens. I forgot that bit.
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4857638476259346798567
You mean 23? I mean, that's just wasteful.
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I can get 40 estates with two actions:
Action 1: Scrying pool, drawing 10 catacombs and 10 HG and forge
Action 2: Forge everything.
Curses: Note that your scenario allows for playing treasures and buying, and also gets 15. I can get 105:
Hand: 4 talisman, squire. Curses are embargoed 30 times. Each time I buy a curse I get 34 more.
Smart, smart. Embargo tokens. I need to remove those as well from the equation. I knew I was missing some stuff.
Scrying pool play, very smart. I've discovered actual interplay with Counterfeit and Talisman, with Counterfeit giving an extra buy as well to boot.
Hunting Grounds is probably the main way to gain Estates.
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Okay, so with question one and two, everything is resolved. Estates can be gained quite quickly with the right tools, as you al have surmised.
The question now is, is there a better way to gain curses with the preset rules than what I have already listed?
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I can get 40 estates with two actions:
Action 1: Scrying pool, drawing 10 catacombs and 10 HG and forge
Action 2: Forge everything.
Curses: Note that your scenario allows for playing treasures and buying, and also gets 15. I can get 105:
Hand: 4 talisman, squire. Curses are embargoed 30 times. Each time I buy a curse I get 34 more.
Smart, smart. Embargo tokens. I need to remove those as well from the equation. I knew I was missing some stuff.
Scrying pool play, very smart. I've discovered actual interplay with Counterfeit and Talisman, with Counterfeit giving an extra buy as well to boot.
I don't recall what HG is though.
HG = Hunting Grounds
When you play counterfeit on talisman the talisman is trashed, so it is not in play, so you don't gain extra curses.
Even if you outlaw coin tokens, a hand of 5 plats can overpay for doctor without playing any actions similarly.
How many silvers can you get? No masterpiece or embargo allowed. I can get 9 without playing any actions. With one action I can get 27 (you can probably guess that I use squire to do the first part 3 times, but it is actually a bit trickier to do...).
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No actions?
Hand is Trader, Watchtower, Venture, Quarry, Talisman
Venture into Ventures and Contraband.
Buy 2 Border Villages, gaining 4, gaining 4 Feoda, trashing them, gaining 12 Silvers.
Trade the 4 BVs for 4 Silvers.
16 Silvers total.
Or just overpay for Doctor to trash 8 Feoda for 24 Silvers. Trade the Doctor for 25 Silvers total. Actually you can go Trader Counterfeit Counterfeit Venture and dig up a lot of Treasure to get extra buys and gains for Trader, getting like 40 Silvers total.
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No actions?
Hand is Trader, Watchtower, Venture, Quarry, Talisman
Venture into Ventures and Contraband.
Buy 2 Border Villages, gaining 4, gaining 4 Feoda, trashing them, gaining 12 Silvers.
Trade the 4 BVs for 4 Silvers.
16 Silvers total.
Or just overpay for Doctor to trash 8 Feoda for 24 Silvers.
I get it, Silvers are pretty much like Curses.
EDIT: Quoted the wrong post, but oh well, this one is still on the same subject.
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Good call with the +buy treasures and feodum...
Hand: Trader, watchtower, venture, contraband, Plat
Venture into 9 ventures and a counterfeit on a plat, play contraband. Coins: 10 + 1 + 3 + 10 = 24, three buys.
Stonemason overpay by six 3 times for 24 coins. Gain 6 BV, 6 Feoda, Stonemason. Watchtower the feoda, trader the BV and stonemason, watchtower 25 silvers on the deck, buy province next 5 turns :D.
Or you can do the doctor thing... heh
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Good call with the +buy treasures and feodum...
Hand: Trader, watchtower, venture, contraband, Plat
Venture into 9 ventures and a counterfeit on a plat, play contraband. Coins: 10 + 1 + 3 + 10 = 24, three buys.
Stonemason overpay by six 3 times for 24 coins. Gain 6 BV, 6 Feoda, Stonemason. Watchtower the feoda, trader the BV and stonemason, watchtower 25 silvers on the deck, buy province next 5 turns :D.
A clever* opponent would bar you from buying the stonemason.
*By clever, of course I mean obnoxious and forum-reading
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EDIT: I've changed this a lot to reach 140 Silvers. Look Further down in the thread to see that post.
EDIT 2: On the 2nd page of this thread I've found (thanks to luser) a solution giving 422 Silvers.
110 Silvers with 0 actions:
Kingdom:
Black Market (contained Trader and Bank and contains Young Witch)
Counterfeit
Venture
Tunnel
Doctor
Cultist
Market Square
Feodum (empty)
Hunting Grounds (empty)
Catacombs
Death Cart
Hand: Trader, 2 Counterfeits, 1 Venture and 1 Bank.
Play Counterfeit, Counterfeit, Venture discarding 9 Tunnels and hitting 8 Ventures and a Counterfeit (playing nothing), reveal Trader for all the Tunnel golds to get 9 Silvers.
Play Venture again, reshuffle, hit the 9 Tunnels again to get 9 Silvers and hit a Silver.
Play Bank twice, getting 14$ each time.
Total: 44$ and 5 buys.
Buy Doctor, overpay by 32$ and trash 3 Cultists (drawing 9 Market Squares discarding them for golds on the later trashes), 10 Feodums, 10 Hunting Grounds, 9 Catacombs (gaining Death Carts). For everything you get that isn't a Silver except for Death Cart, apply Trader and get Silver instead. Total: 87 Silvers.
Buy Death Cart gaining 2 Ruins applying Trader to get 2 Silvers.
Buy 3 Curses revealing Trader to get 3 Silvers instead.
Total: 110 Silvers.
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90 Curses with 1 action:
Hand: Apprentice, Colony and 3 Counterfeits.
Play Apprentice, trash Colony, draw 2 Counterfeits and 9 Talismans.
Play the Counterfeits on eachother to get 9 buys.
Play 9 Talismans.
Buy 9 Curses gaining 9 extra for each to get 90 Curses.
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Jesus, fucking Counterfeit-Counterfeit is the new Procession-Procession.
I was going to ask where the 10th Talisman came from but you only mention 9 extra Curses per Curse so that sounds like a typo rather than an oversight?
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46 Estates with 0 actions:
Hand: 4 Counterfeits and 1 Venture.
Play the 4 Counterfeits and the Venture hitting 8 Ventures and a Bank (gaining 14$).
Play Venture again and hit a Bank (gaining 15$).
Total: 45$ and 7 buys.
Buy Doctor overpaying with 20$ and trash 10 Hunting Grounds and 10 Catacombs to get 40 Estates.
Buy 6 Estates.
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Jesus, fucking Counterfeit-Counterfeit is the new Procession-Procession.
I was going to ask where the 10th Talisman came from but you only mention 9 extra Curses per Curse so that sounds like a typo rather than an oversight?
Yes that was a typo, I've corrected it to play 9 Talismans.
I've also edited the Silver solution a few times. First I had it at 111, but there was 3 empty piles.
Then I realised that adding Death Cart to the supply instead of Squire gave 1 extra Silver.
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With two actions you could also get 339 curses by extending scrying pool trick. and more silver with trader in hand
Step 1: play scrying pool drawing 19 rats, 9 cultists, 9 catacombs, gaining 9 curses
Step 2: use forge to draw 10 talismans, 10 counterfeits and 9 contrabands.
by counterfeiting contrabands you get 30 buys, which due to talismans yields 330 curses.
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With two actions you could also get 339 curses by extending scrying pool trick. and more silver with trader in hand
Step 1: play scrying pool drawing 19 rats, 9 cultists, 9 catacombs, gaining 9 curses
Step 2: use forge to draw 10 talismans, 10 counterfeits and 9 contrabands.
by counterfeiting contrabands you get 30 buys, which due to talismans yields 330 curses.
Don't forget to draw Overgrown Estate with scyring pool! :D Okay, you could have just drawn the first talisman, but that isn't half as fun!
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EDIT: On the 2nd page of this thread I've found (thanks to luser) a solution giving 422 Silvers.
140 Silvers with 0 actions:
Kingdom:
Black Market (contained Venture, Philosopher's Stone and all possible non-treasure cards)
Counterfeit
Tunnel
Doctor
Cultist
Market Square
Feodum
Hunting Grounds
Catacombs
Death Cart
Squire
All non-treasure supply piles have 1 card left except Tunnel and Hunting Grounds that are empty.
Hand: Trader, 3 Counterfeits and Venture.
Play the 3 Counterfeits and the Venture hitting 10 Tunnels, discarding them to get 10 Silvers, then hit a Philosopher's Stone (gaining 68$).
Play Venture again reshuffle, hit the 10 Tunnels again to get 10 Silvers, discard all the cards that aren't mentioned before the reshuffle, and then hit a Silver.
Total: 77$ and 6 buys. (note that we're only using 68$, so even if I've miscounted a little for Philosopher's Stone it still works).
Buy Doctor, overpay by 57$ and trash 3 Cultists (drawing 9 Market Squares discarding them for golds on the later trashes), 9 Feodums, 10 Hunting Grounds, 9 Catacombs (gaining, Feodum and 8 Death Carts), 9 Squires (gaining Cultists), 6 Cultists (drawing 9 Silvers (reshuffle) and 9 Market Squares), 1 Feodum (discarding the 9 Market Squares), and 10 Tunnels (discarding them for golds). For everything you get that isn't a Silver except for Death Cart, apply Trader and get Silver instead. Total: 113 Silvers.
Buy 2 Death Carts, applying Trader to the Ruins to get 4 Silvers.
Buy 3 Curses revealing Trader to get 3 Silvers instead.
Total: 140 Silvers.
This is the best solution to a puzzle I've ever made. Finally it's me doing something like this :)
Please check to see if I've made any mistakes or if you can find a better solution.
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lol, I like how this went from a Curse/Estate to a Silver thing.
How about gaining the most amount of Duchies with 1 action?
Chapel 4 HG in your hand for 4 Duchies. Or....
Have 3 Platinums and 2 Counterfeits in hand, Play the two Counterfeits on 2 Platinums for a total of 27 bucks, Overpay with Doctor to trash 10 HG as you draw them (13 used), and with 14 left, buy 2 Duchies to gain a total of 12 Duchies. I was one coin short of gaining a third coin, so maybe you all could help with that.
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lol, I like how this went from a Curse/Estate to a Silver thing.
How about gaining the most amount of Duchies with 1 action?
Chapel 4 HG in your hand for 4 Duchies. Or....
Have 3 Platinums and 2 Counterfeits in hand, Play the two Counterfeits on 2 Platinums for a total of 27 bucks, Overpay with Doctor to trash 10 HG as you draw them (13 used), and with 14 left, buy 2 Duchies to gain a total of 12 Duchies. I was one coin short of gaining a third coin, so maybe you all could help with that.
Swapping out one Platinum for a Venture should bring up the count.
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Swapping out one Platinum for a Venture should bring up the count.
Brilliant. I always think of these elaborate things but always forget one thing. Not just with Dominion. Dumb brain.
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Now I could get 200+ curses, could be improved with doctor overpay.
Starting hand is watchtower, talisman, horn of plenty.
Play talisman then horn of plenty gaining squire, trash it for cultist to draw talisman, horn of plenty, counterfeit. Repeat ten times and buy curses with 10 counterfeits and 10 tailsmans.
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My first thought at Duchies with 0 and 1 actions are something like this. The actual number of Duchies depends on how much money we can get from Philosopher's Stone:
Duchies with 0 actions:
Hand: 3 Counterfeits, Contraband and Venture.
Play the 3 Counterfeits, Contraband and Venture, hitting a Philosopher's Stone.
Play the Venture again hitting 9 Ventures and a Contraband.
Overpay for Doctor with 10$ to trash 10 Hunting Grounds.
Buy Stonemasons overpaying with 6 to get 2 Border Villages and 2 Duchies.
Duchies with 1 action:
Hand: Apprentice, Colony, 3 Counterfeits
Play Apprentice, trash Colony, draw 4 Counterfeits, 6 Contrabands and Venture.
Play the 7 Counterfeits, 6 Contrabands and Venture and hit a Philosopher's Stone, 9 Ventures and Contraband.
Buy Doctor, overpaying with 10 to trash 10 Hunting Grounds.
Buy Stonemasons overpaying with 6$ to get 2 Border Villages and 2 Duchies.
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Now I could get 200+ curses, could be improved with doctor overpay.
Starting hand is watchtower, talisman, horn of plenty.
Play talisman then horn of plenty gaining squire, trash it for cultist to draw talisman, horn of plenty, counterfeit. Repeat ten times and buy curses with 10 counterfeits and 10 tailsmans.
Nice, but doesn't that only give 11 buys * 11 Curses = 121 Curses?
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Now I could get 200+ curses, could be improved with doctor overpay.
Starting hand is watchtower, talisman, horn of plenty.
Play talisman then horn of plenty gaining squire, trash it for cultist to draw talisman, horn of plenty, counterfeit. Repeat ten times and buy curses with 10 counterfeits and 10 tailsmans.
Nice, but doesn't that only give 11 buys * 11 Curses = 121 Curses?
You can Counterfeit a Counterfeit.
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Now I could get 200+ curses, could be improved with doctor overpay.
Starting hand is watchtower, talisman, horn of plenty.
Play talisman then horn of plenty gaining squire, trash it for cultist to draw talisman, horn of plenty, counterfeit. Repeat ten times and buy curses with 10 counterfeits and 10 tailsmans.
Nice, but doesn't that only give 11 buys * 11 Curses = 121 Curses?
You can Counterfeit a Counterfeit.
Lol. I've done this so many times in my own posts, and then I forget it in yours :)
20buys * 11 Curses = 220 Curses.
You could overpay for a Doctor to trash 9 Catabombs, but that wouldn't be worth it using a buy on.
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Now I could get 200+ curses, could be improved with doctor overpay.
Starting hand is watchtower, talisman, horn of plenty.
Play talisman then horn of plenty gaining squire, trash it for cultist to draw talisman, horn of plenty, counterfeit. Repeat ten times and buy curses with 10 counterfeits and 10 tailsmans.
I hate you so much right now (not really, just kidding). This method can be used to gain more Silvers than my solution had, and it's a much simpler solution.
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Now I could get 200+ curses, could be improved with doctor overpay.
Starting hand is watchtower, talisman, horn of plenty.
Play talisman then horn of plenty gaining squire, trash it for cultist to draw talisman, horn of plenty, counterfeit. Repeat ten times and buy curses with 10 counterfeits and 10 tailsmans.
Add in a few Ventures and Contraband, maybe? Also, start with a 5 card hand, so 2 more cards can be added.
Starting with 10 Talismans, 4 Counterfeits, 4 Contraband, and 4 Ventures in hand:
Counterfeit a Counterfeit(3 times) leaving 4 more Counterfeit plays
Counterfeit 4 Ventures, playing 6 Ventures, 6 Counterfeits(4 of which Counterfeit Contraband), and 2 Contrabands.
Playing Talisman 10 times, Venture 14 times, Counterfeit 13 times and Contraband 10 times, for a total of +23 buys and 67 coins. So 264 Curses.
Or, buy 253 Curses and a Doctor overpay by 64, trashing 10 Catacombs for 10 Curses and trashing 50 other cards. So 263 Curses, and Doctor overpay isn't really worth the extra buy when going for Curses.
For other puzzles:
Buy Estate 23 times for 46 coins, leaving a 20 overpay on Doctor trashing 10 HG, 10 Catacombs for a total of 253+40=293 Estates
Swap out a Contraband for a Trader, so down to 22 buys. Buy Curse 20 times revealing Trader, overpay Doctor by 32 trashing 10 HG, 10 Catacombs, and 12 Feoda, revealing Trader on the gained Doctors and Estates, overpay Masterpiece by 31 for 31 Silvers, revealing Trader on the gained Masterpieces, for a total of 220+76+41=337 Silvers. I think you can do better with Bank and Masterpiece, though.
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Thanks to luser I can now get 422 Silvers with 0 actions:
Kingdom:
Black Market (contained Venture, Watchtower, Quarry and contains Young Witch)
Counterfeit (empty)
Tunnel
Doctor
Cultist
Feodum
Hunting Grounds
Contraband
Talisman (empty)
Horn of Plenty
Catacombs
Hand: Watchtower, Horn of Plenty, Counterfeit, Counterfeit and Quarry.
Play Quarry.
Counterfeit chain:
Play Counterfeit.
Do this 4 times:
Play Counterfeit.
Play Horn of Plenty, gain Cultist, trash with Watchtower, draw Counterfeit, Talisman and Contraband.
Play Horn of Plenty again, gain Cultist, trash with Watchtower, draw Counterfeit, Talisman and Horn of Plenty.
Play Counterfeit.
Play Horn of Plenty, gain Cultist, trash with Watchtower, draw Talisman, Contraband and Trader.
Play Horn of Plenty again, gain Cultist, trash with Watchtower, draw Talisman, Contraband and Venture.
Play 4 Counterfeits and 5 Contrabands.
End of Contraband chain.
Play Venture, discard 9 Tunnels, reveal Trader to get 9 Silvers, hit and play Contraband.
Play 10 Talismans.
Play Contraband.
Total: 65$ and 32 buys.
Buy Doctor, overpay by 36$ and trash 9 Feodums, 9 Hunting Grounds, 9 Catacombs (reshuffle) and discard 9 Tunnels. Apply Trader to the Estates and Golds to get Silvers instead. Total: 72 Silvers.
Buy 31 Curses, gain 10 copies for each Curse, apply Trader to all of them to get 31 * 11 = 341 Silvers.
Total: 422 Silvers.
Any ideas how to improve this?
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By drawing Contraband instead of Trader and not buying Doctor, the same method can be used to gain 33 * 11 = 363 Curses.
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I think you can do better with Bank and Masterpiece, though.
Philosopher's Stone is better than Bank.
Masterpiece isn't allowed.
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Any ideas how to improve this?
You could look into gaining a Mandarin with Horn of Plenty at some point to replay your treasures later.
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Any ideas how to improve this?
You could look into gaining a Mandarin with Horn of Plenty at some point to replay your treasures later.
Well, just the ones that weren't trashed.
But still, there might be something there... It really is on-gain, so you can trigger it while you're in the middle of playing Treasures and just keep playing them. That's brilliant.
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Any ideas how to improve this?
You could look into gaining a Mandarin with Horn of Plenty at some point to replay your treasures later.
Could somebody call CC to empty the supply without an action?
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All of this debate is intense. Wow. Just wow. You can do just about anything with no actions. So...
Let's up the ante. How many Colonies can you gain with no actions?
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Any ideas how to improve this?
You could look into gaining a Mandarin with Horn of Plenty at some point to replay your treasures later.
I think this will work best with Mandarin instead of Contraband. I don't need the Contrabands to get buys when I can play the Counterfeits again. Doing this I should also look at putting Rats in the Kingdom instead of Catacombs for extra draw. It looks very promising.
There were also at least 1 other card I wanted Doctor to hit, but there weren't enough spots in the Kingdom. I can put 1 of each in the Black Market.
I'm going to bed now (it's way too late for me) and will look at it tomorrow.
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All of this debate is intense. Wow. Just wow. You can do just about anything with no actions. So...
Let's up the ante. How many Colonies can you gain with no actions?
A lot. You can play a lot of inflated Philosopher's Stones to get a lot of money.
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Just how inflated can P-stone get again?
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Just how inflated can P-stone get again?
I had a solution for 140 Silvers on the previous page that used Philosopher's Stone. I counted it at 68$, but that solution didn't allow for it to count treasure cards (other than the 10 gained Silvers), because I needed help from Venture to trigger a reshuffle. Adding Rats to the kingdom will also increase it a little.
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Just how inflated can P-stone get again?
I had a solution for 140 Silvers on the previous page that used Philosopher's Stone. I counted it at 68$, but that solution didn't allow for it to count treasure cards (other than the 10 gained Silvers), because I needed help from Venture to trigger a reshuffle. Adding Rats to the kingdom will also increase it a little.
There is an unlimited supply of Estates, Curses, Silvers and now Colonies. Can't it get as inflated as you want?
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We can just agree that you can play a single Treasure card which provides as much $ as you need.
The buys and gains from the Treasures are more important.
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I didn't use enough time on it today to finish it, but I've found a great combo to start with that is only limited by the supply piles. This combo can be used for anything that requires a lot of buys and/or $:
Needed supply piles to make the combo:
Watchtower/Black Market
Quarry/Black Market
Counterfeit
Venture
Horn of Plenty
Rats
Cultist
Mandarin
Hand: Watchtower, 3 Counterfeits and Venture.
Play Counterfeit.
Loop:
Play Counterfeit.
Play Venture, hit all remaining Ventures except 1 and hit Quarry.
Play Venture again, hit Horn of Plenty, gain Rats, trash with Watchtower, draw Horn of Plenty.
Trash Venture.
Play Counterfeit.
Play Horn of Plenty, gain Cultist, trash with Watchtower, draw 2 Counterfeits and a Venture.
Play Horn of Plenty again, gain Mandarin, put all treasures on top of your deck.
This can be done 10 times. If the supply piles were infinite, it would be possible to continue it infinitely.
The plan for my Silvers solution now is to start with this a lot of times. Then move on to gaining Rats with Counterfeited Horn of Plentys to get some more draw.
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I thought this combo was a known thing. well, I've heard of it before at least.
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Mandarin / HoP is a known thing, but it has never been worked out to this extent.
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I made a puzzle a year ir two ago - most coins fron only treasure. that used HoP/Cultist/mandarin
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Let's try something else then.
How many Estates can you gain using only one action, and one special treasure? The definition of a Special Treasure is any treasure with words on it that require you to do something or can do something like it is an action/reaction card.
All Special Treasures:
(Diadem, Spoils, Fool's Gold, Loan, Masterpiece, Philosopher's Stone, Quarry, Talisman, Cache, Contraband, Counterfeit, Horn of Plenty, Ill-Gotten Gains, Royal Seal, Stash, Venture, Hoard, and Bank)
Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Potion, and Harem are not Special Treasures.
You can still buy special Treasure if it gives you usages (such as Masterpiece), but only one special treasure can be in your deck at the start of your turn.
A second rule is that you MUST USE the Treasure in question. If you say you're doing the Ill-Gotten Gains treasure but don't actually use it, it isn't the best possible combination with that card. It must not only be in your deck, but you must also use it. I recognize that a lot of the cards will have the same solution, but with a plethora of action cards to choose from, this could be an interesting thing to try for at least a few solutions.
What would be cool is the best combo that you can possibly do with each Special Treasure.
I'll try it out in a second.
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Diadem
Hand: Squire, Watch Tower, Diadem, Platinum, Platinum
Play Squire as +2 Buys. Play Diadem and Platinums for $13. (Not +1$ for Watchtower, since Diadem works with Actions, not Action Cards). Buy two HG and trash for 6 Estates.
Spoils
Hand: Squire, Watch Tower, Spoils, Platinum, Platinum
Play Squire as +2 Buys. Play Spoils and Platinums for $14. Buy and trash out HG for +6 Estates and +1 Estate buy. I feel like this is going to be all of them pretty much.
Fool's Gold
Hand: Squire, Watch Tower, Fool's Gold, Platinum, Platinum
Play Squire as +2 Buys. Play Fool's Gold and Platinums for $12. Buy and trash out HG for +6 Estates. Eh.
Loan
Same as Fools Gold.
Masterpiece
Same as Fool's Gold.
Philosopher's Stone
With this, you can theoretically use Squire and buy up to 3 HG to trash for +9 Estates.
Quarry
You can buy 3 HG for +9, which seems to be the limit for most of these cards.
Cache
Same as Spoils.
Contraband
Extra buy on Contraband can be used with Margrave to draw enough money to get 3 HG to trash.
Counterfeit
Squire +Buy, Counterfeit the Platinum for a +3Buy and $21. That's 3 HG and an Estate. 10 Estates.
Horn of Plenty
This could be used for an extra Estate gain, but not HG without using Margrave for the extra +Buy.
Ill-Gotten Gains
Same as Fool's Gold.
Royal Seal
Same as Diadem.
Stash
Same as Diadem.
Venture
Extra Platinum doesn't matter, same as Fool's Gold.
Hoard
Same as Diadem.
Bank
Extra money doesn't matter all that much, still only a +HG gain.
Or you could just overpay Doctor by +20 with the hand of x4 Platinum and Special Treasure with almost every single card to trash every single HG and Catacombs for a total of 40 Estates plus or minus a few Estates, depending on your Special Treasure's cost and
buy count.
While showcasing Counterfeit's power, overall, this absolutely sucks. No real fun. There has to be a way to just have a different strategy with every single Treasure Card without having more or less the same strategy with every card.
Hrm.. Silver Gain would be better to try out, but it would be the same thing with every Treasure. This is quite the dilemma. Ugh.