Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Mr.Oatmeal on October 25, 2014, 11:10:58 pm
-
because I play so much online, and none of my friends and family do, I inevitably crush them most games IRL (at least when it's only 2 player).
I still love playing IRL games with them, but is there some way to slightly even the playing field so they will continue to have fun and keep playing with me?
I've thought of differing the starting decks (zaps style), giving them some bonus card to start, or even just talking them through what strategies I see as possibilities on the board before we begin.
Have you guys tried any of these? How well has it worked?
-
It's tough. I have settled on just watching them improve or casually musing on my reasons for making plays / the reasons their plays failed. Even with handicaps you know the game better, so you might as well play on an even field.
-
In my playgroup, it has been established that people can ask me for tips during the game and then I will give them tips. And then I win every game anyway. But it's a lot more fun losing the game when you at least have some idea what you're doing.
-
I think walking them through strategies sounds like no fun for them. Likewise, starting them with extra cards is going to alter their perception of how the game works (how fast decks get going, what you can open with, etc.). Handicapping your own starting deck seems like it could work.
Alternatively, you could just challenge yourself each game. Identify a key card and try to win without buying it. Attempt outlandish strategies that would never work against expert players. That sort of thing.
-
Aside from the obvious "give them duchy instead of estate" perhaps you can give them a head start? First two turns are free? Much more than that will change the game itself.
-
My (very casual) irl playgroup does two handicap things: firstly the player to the left of the winner of the previous game always starts, secondly after each game the winner replaces an estate with a curse (or a copper with a curse if it's gone that far) and the outright looser replaces an estate with a copper. This isn't very balanced but it does give a handicap and can be quite fun just seeing ridiculous stuff happen because of it.
-
The main problem is that any handicapping makes them learn the game wrong. There's someone I play with that wouldn't play with me unless I explained a lot of strategy around each card in the kingdom. They stopped playing with me anyway because I pulled off an amazing engine against them :(
-
I think walking them through strategies sounds like no fun for them. Likewise, starting them with extra cards is going to alter their perception of how the game works (how fast decks get going, what you can open with, etc.). Handicapping your own starting deck seems like it could work.
Alternatively, you could just challenge yourself each game. Identify a key card and try to win without buying it. Attempt outlandish strategies that would never work against expert players. That sort of thing.
My Scout-Tunnel-Secret Chamber engine is ready to go.
-
I think walking them through strategies sounds like no fun for them. Likewise, starting them with extra cards is going to alter their perception of how the game works (how fast decks get going, what you can open with, etc.). Handicapping your own starting deck seems like it could work.
Alternatively, you could just challenge yourself each game. Identify a key card and try to win without buying it. Attempt outlandish strategies that would never work against expert players. That sort of thing.
So much wisdom in this post, I agree 100% with it. I usually try to do overly complicated strategies when teaching the game, because in my experience that is the way where we all have the most fun; handicapping their starting hand is a big nono for me, and giving them a precise strategy guide on the board would be a big turnoff for a lot of my friends (if there is a really strong card in the kingdom, I do point it out to even out the field a bit, but that's it).
Something else that might work is playing 4 player games. That will both show more "strategies" at once, so they will learn faster, and will tend to shorten games, so they will understand the importance of not buying every action card that looks cool; it also lowers the chances that the super experienced player will win just because of sheer dumb luck, so it can make it more fun for them too.
It won't really help them for the 2 player game, but it's a nice stepping stone.
-
If I'm playing with people IRL, there is always open discussion about strategy. With newer players I'll tell what I plan on doing in about 10 seconds, such as "I'll be making a deck with Village and Smithy to draw a lot of cards." No need to go into payloads or anything else, then they can try what I'm doing or do what they want and experiment. And because I only say the basics of what I'm doing they still feel like they are playing their own cards since they chose to pick up that militia and those markets.
-
If I'm playing in person, I'm playing to socialize. Which means I sandbag.
Exception : playing against fDS people or tournaments, or if people want strategy discussion.
-
At the beginning of your buy phase, name 2 cards and ask your opponent (rotate in multiplayer) to pick one of them; you can only buy that card or nothing. Do this until you feel the playing field is adequately leveled.
-
A relatively easy way that hasn't been mentioned is to always let them go first. This won't make up all of the skill difference, but it will help. Other than that, my IRL games are usually 3P and I try to play a little less seriously: not keep track of the score, try something I don't necessarily think is the strongest. I usually ask beforehand whether my opponent(s) would like any tips on the kingdom. I think this is really a matter of who you're playing against. Some people hate being told what to do, but some people really appreciate a few strategy tips. Especially if you point out something like "Being able to play more than one Goons is really good" (or "Goons grow quadratically," if you're playing against a mathy person).
-
For me, my mom and her playgroup are more into the social aspect and get upset if I play competitively and "ruin" the fun. So, either I don't play, or just do weird nonsensical stuff. One time, I bought nothing but Graverobbers and remolded them into Provinces. I still won that game. I actually remember my mom being slightly upset because my strategy was unfun and "competitive." lol I was actually trying to play poorly by just going for Graverobbers
-
Like GeoLib, I mostly play 3P IRL and not all that seriously (except for the Dutch nationals tournament).
3P is more of a free for all fest, you can't really control it like 2P, so you're likely to be less dominant even if you are the best player at the table. You're also less likely to have the best draws (if it's 50% in 2P, it's 33% in 3P), so this too works in favor of less skilled players. The combos themselves are harder to pull off, because there are less Minions for your stack or less Fool's Golds, etc..
Instead of pointing out combos and strategies, I mostly let other players discover them either themselves or through what I'm buying. Just make sure they read all the cards and understand what they do. Most other players will try to copy you if they're paying attention anyway.
-
It really depends on the people you're playing with, too. Some people like having their hands held so they can be competitive, and some people will be insulted if you give them anything less than your a-game. When I teach new people I usually ask them how much help they want.
-
A relatively easy way that hasn't been mentioned is to always let them go first.
I want to second this for sure. When playing IRL, I always go last for the first game of the evening.
-
I have an interesting case where I used to play once a week, 3 player games, with randomized kingdoms from all the decks. For about a year or two we were all about equal in skill. However now we haven't had time to play every week. While I have read more articles, watched hundreds of YouTube videos, and played more then a 1000 games online in the past year, they only still play when we get together.
Here's what normally happens.
1. I recognize its clearly a BM board, go for it, win easily, but we all still have fun because its fast paced
2. I try a crazy engine that should never work and doesn't, I lose, We all still have fun because someone beat me even though the game might have been tedious.
3. I go for a complex but winning engine, everyone hates me because my turns took 5 minutes each and they stood no chance the whole game.
SO to avoid such situations as the last one you just have to play boring winning strategies, or complex and fun losing strategies. Of course number 3 has been coming up more and more these days haha
-
This is another reason I never play 3P online. I actively don't want to spend time learning 3P strategy, so I can still play casual 3P IRL.
-
This is another reason I never play 3P online.
Familiar games must suck for you then.
-
Thanks for all of your thoughts, guys. Based on all of this, I will probably stay away from changing up the starting decks and just try some weird strategy for myself.
-
Take a shot for every 10 iso levels you have before a game.
-
Take a shot for every 10 iso levels you have before a game.
I have also played dominion against my friends while I was somewhat drunk. I still won. It was a little embarrassing for them. I was kind of a dick about it too.