Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Puzzles and Challenges => Topic started by: Rubby on September 29, 2014, 07:47:48 pm
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(This is a pure Dominion puzzle - no outside-world knowledge required - and is not art-related.)
Name the one card that completes this set, and identify the common trait:
[EDIT: For a probably better, though easier, version of this, see the amended list in my 6th post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11838.msg425275#msg425275).]
Beggar
Horse Traders
Lighthouse
Moat
Secret Chamber
Squire
Hint: It is NOT Urchin!
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Scrying Pool. The common trait is that they counter Knights.
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Scrying Pool. The common trait is that they counter Knights.
squire does not counter knights. How does scrying pool counter knights anyway?
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Scrying Pool. The common trait is that they counter Knights.
squire does not counter knights. How does scrying pool counter knights anyway?
Squire costs $2 and gains Silvers. It's certainly better at countering Knights than Horse Traders. Scrying Pool costs $2P and usually benefits from having lots of $2 cards in your deck.
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Surely there must be other cards that counter knights similarly. EDIT: Fortress, rats, cultist, bank, vineyards, feodum
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And my personal favorite, Platinum
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And my personal favorite, Platinum
Really? My favorite is Colony.
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Countering Knights is not the trait. The answer is more straightforwardly factual and not subject to such debate.
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Vague thoughts: Something about the card having a part that only does something if there's another card that you can't guarantee will be in the kingdom/supply? Because all of these cards have a bit that's worthless unless there's an Attack card, whereas Urchin can be its own trigger. However, the only other such trigger I can think of is cards with an on-trash effect that can't trash themselves (or other cards of their kind), but there are more than one of those. Maybe Prince, that presumes the existence of a sub-$4 Action?
EDIT: But then there's also Golem, which presumes the existence of a non-Golem Action card.
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Vague thoughts: Something about the card having a part that only does something if there's another card that you can't guarantee will be in the kingdom/supply? Because all of these cards have a bit that's worthless unless there's an Attack card, whereas Urchin can be its own trigger. However, the only other such trigger I can think of is cards with an on-trash effect that can't trash themselves (or other cards of their kind), but there are more than one of those. Maybe Prince, that presumes the existence of a sub-$4 Action?
EDIT: But then there's also Golem, which presumes the existence of a non-Golem Action card.
Along those lines, tunnel presumes a way to discard other than during the clean-up phase, which isn't guaranteed to be on the board.
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Vague thoughts: Something about the card having a part that only does something if there's another card that you can't guarantee will be in the kingdom/supply? Because all of these cards have a bit that's worthless unless there's an Attack card, whereas Urchin can be its own trigger. However, the only other such trigger I can think of is cards with an on-trash effect that can't trash themselves (or other cards of their kind), but there are more than one of those. Maybe Prince, that presumes the existence of a sub-$4 Action?
EDIT: But then there's also Golem, which presumes the existence of a non-Golem Action card.
Good thoughts, but there would definitely be more than one other card fitting that description.
I'll post another hint soon.
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I found the solution. Don't look at it if you want to figure it out yourself!
They are all either Beggar, Horse Traders, Lighthouse, Moat, Secret Chamber, Squire, or Hermit. The card that completes the list is Hermit.
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Name the one card that completes this set, and identify the common trait:
Beggar
Horse Traders
Lighthouse
Moat
Secret Chamber
Squire
Hint: It is NOT Urchin!
I'm pretty sure you're wrong, it is Urchin. ;)
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I found the solution. Don't look at it if you want to figure it out yourself!
They are all either Beggar, Horse Traders, Lighthouse, Moat, Secret Chamber, Squire, or Hermit. The card that completes the list is Hermit.
I must admit that this is an irrefutable alternative answer!
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They all have a clause which relies on the presence of attack cards.
Urchin can rely on itself so it doesn't work.
I guess the missing card is (far fetched) Black Market/Knight, since Black Market can put one Knight into the Black Market deck and the "If a Knight is trashed by this, trash this card." will never trigger.
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I think the answer is Tunnel, because all the cards can react to an attack card that the opponent plays or that it is the target of.
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Well, Trader and Watchtower can react to an attack the opponent plays, and they are as specific to the attack as Tunnel is.
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Is it Moat?
(Does anyone else miss Ozle?)
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"NOT Urchin".
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I guess the missing card is (far fetched) Black Market/Knight, since Black Market can put one Knight into the Black Market deck and the "If a Knight is trashed by this, trash this card." will never trigger.
But you can say the same thing about Urchin. Cultist too. No, the answer does not involve Black Market.
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Here's another hint. A slightly less restrictive version of the set, which actually might have made for a better puzzle, would also include Quarry and Vineyard.
The amended list -
Beggar
Horse Traders
Lighthouse
Moat
Quarry
Secret Chamber
Squire
Vineyard
is still missing one and only one card.
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Is it Moat?
(Does anyone else miss Ozle?)
yes
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Is it Moat?
(Does anyone else miss Ozle?)
yes
No, it is not Moat.
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Diadem. All of them have non action text that require another action card that is not a copy of itself to work.
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Diadem. All of them have non action text that require another action card that is not a copy of itself to work.
Actually, all Prizes, Urchin, Mercenary, Spoils, and all Ruins require an Action not a copy of themselves to work.
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Diadem. All of them have non action text that require another action card that is not a copy of itself to work.
Actually, all Prizes, Urchin, Mercenary, Spoils, and all Ruins require an Action not a copy of themselves to work.
Other prize, spoils and ruins don't have non action texts that reference any action card. Urchin can wok with another urchin.
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Diadem. All of them have non action text that require another action card that is not a copy of itself to work.
Actually, all Prizes, Urchin, Mercenary, Spoils, and all Ruins require an Action not a copy of themselves to work.
But there's not a clause on the card itself saying so.
But, Diadem doesn't work because you can always have one action...
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Diadem. All of them have non action text that require another action card that is not a copy of itself to work.
But Tunnel and all Dark Ages cards with on-trash effects also have this trait.
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Other prize, spoils and ruins don't have non action texts that reference any action card. Urchin can wok with another urchin.
I mean Madman, not Urchin, sorry. The rulebook requires other Action cards for those cards to work.
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Diadem. All of them have non action text that require another action card that is not a copy of itself to work.
But Tunnel and all Dark Ages cards with on-trash effects also have this trait.
They works with venture and farmland.
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Diadem- they all reference a card type that they don't have.
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Diadem. All of them have non action text that require another action card that is not a copy of itself to work.
But Tunnel and all Dark Ages cards with on-trash effects also have this trait.
They works with venture and farmland.
Good point - not sure if I can think of another counterexample! Let's just say the trait is a little more straightforward and not dependent on defining a term such as "non action text" - although that answer is not at all unreasonable, I must say.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure how the card you named uniquely has the property that you cited...?
EDIT 2: Because you can't gain it without Tournament? Princess also has "non action text" in the same sense as Lighthouse. Anyway, the answer is more straightforward.
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Diadem- they all reference a card type that they don't have.
Lots of other cards have this property.
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University?
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Here's another hint. A slightly less restrictive version of the set, which actually might have made for a better puzzle, would also include Quarry and Vineyard.
The amended list -
Beggar
Horse Traders
Lighthouse
Moat
Quarry
Secret Chamber
Squire
Vineyard
is still missing one and only one card.
The problem with puzzles like this is that while it may seem obvious to you that there's one and only one card that completes this set, chances are high that other people could come up with multiple cards that completed the set according to that same reasoning. Therefore, even if someone guesses the reasoning you are using, they won't think they've got the puzzle right because there will be multiple cards that could go along with this set.
University?
This might be the solution if the logic is "cards that have multiple functions, at least one of which is useless in a Kingdom with no action cards in the rest of the Kingdom." But Festival satisfies that logic too (and Vineyard's claim to satisfy that logic is tough, it could power up Silk Roads, for example).
If anyone posts "the common element of the current set is X, and therefore the unique card that completes the set is Y", either A) there's an argument that not all of the current cards have element X, or B) there's an argument that more than one card could be added to the set.
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The problem with puzzles like this is that while it may seem obvious to you that there's one and only one card that completes this set, chances are high that other people could come up with multiple cards that completed the set according to that same reasoning. Therefore, even if someone guesses the reasoning you are using, they won't think they've got the puzzle right because there will be multiple cards that could go along with this set.
Only if I made a factual error, which I was careful not to do.
University?
This might be the solution if the logic is "cards that have multiple functions, at least one of which is useless in a Kingdom with no action cards in the rest of the Kingdom." But Festival satisfies that logic too (and Vineyard's claim to satisfy that logic is tough, it could power up Silk Roads, for example).
Thus that logic is not the solution.
If anyone posts "the common element of the current set is X, and therefore the unique card that completes the set is Y", either A) there's an argument that not all of the current cards have element X, or B) there's an argument that more than one card could be added to the set.
That is not true of this puzzle. The common element is straightforwardly, objectively factual.
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Band of Misfits
Each of them has a property which is useless if the kingdom contains no actions other than that card. (For vineyard and quarry, "no actions other than that card" means simply "no actions", because those card aren't actions.
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Band of Misfits
Each of them has a property which is useless if the kingdom contains no actions other than that card. (For vineyard and quarry, "no actions other than that card" means simply "no actions", because those card aren't actions.
Throne Room.
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Band of Misfits
Each of them has a property which is useless if the kingdom contains no actions other than that card. (For vineyard and quarry, "no actions other than that card" means simply "no actions", because those card aren't actions.
Throne Room.
Throne Room can technically target other throne rooms. Though Procession can't gain an action cards costing exactly one more if it's the only action card...
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Band of Misfits
Each of them has a property which is useless if the kingdom contains no actions other than that card. (For vineyard and quarry, "no actions other than that card" means simply "no actions", because those card aren't actions.
Throne Room.
Throne Room can technically target other throne rooms. Though Procession can't gain an action cards costing exactly one more if it's the only action card...
University would also be in the set if that were the trait.
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Band of Misfits
Each of them has a property which is useless if the kingdom contains no actions other than that card. (For vineyard and quarry, "no actions other than that card" means simply "no actions", because those card aren't actions.
Tunnel, Market Square, University, Golem, Feodum, Catacombs, Hunting Grounds
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Any village. Golem.
Ninjaed. Venture can trigger tunnel though.
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Is this to do with protection against a masquerade pin? The defensive cards will do that and the squire will add a card to a deck when trashed. I can't see how vineyards and quarry fit into that though. So is the extra card the unlikely Sir Vander?
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Band of Misfits
Each of them has a property which is useless if the kingdom contains no actions other than that card. (For vineyard and quarry, "no actions other than that card" means simply "no actions", because those card aren't actions.
Tunnel, Market Square, University, Golem, Feodum, Catacombs, Hunting Grounds
Venture (as mentioned) can activate Tunnel. Farmland can activate MS, Feodum, Catacombs, HG. Golem could play (one) necropolis, which isn't a kingdom card.
And TR/KC can play more TR and KC. But Procession and University are solid counterexamples.
I'll try again.
The first list (Beggar, Horse Traders, Lighthouse, Moat, Secret Chamber, Squire) is a list of Kingdom Action cards that have this property: each card X on the list references a card type (in each case it happens to be Attack) that is not necessarily in the Kingdom when X is in the Kingdom. The second list (adding Quarry and Vineyards) is a list of Kingdom (not necessarily Action) cards with the same property.
Vagrant (which references Ruins, but does not add Ruins to the Kingdom) completes both lists. I can't think of another card that has that property.
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I'll try again.
The first list (Beggar, Horse Traders, Lighthouse, Moat, Secret Chamber, Squire) is a list of Kingdom Action cards that have this property: each card X on the list references a card type (in each case it happens to be Attack) that is not necessarily in the Kingdom when X is in the Kingdom. The second list (adding Quarry and Vineyards) is a list of Kingdom (not necessarily Action) cards with the same property.
Vagrant (which references Ruins, but does not add Ruins to the Kingdom) completes both lists. I can't think of another card that has that property.
dereeder wins!
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I'll try again.
The first list (Beggar, Horse Traders, Lighthouse, Moat, Secret Chamber, Squire) is a list of Kingdom Action cards that have this property: each card X on the list references a card type (in each case it happens to be Attack) that is not necessarily in the Kingdom when X is in the Kingdom. The second list (adding Quarry and Vineyards) is a list of Kingdom (not necessarily Action) cards with the same property.
Vagrant (which references Ruins, but does not add Ruins to the Kingdom) completes both lists. I can't think of another card that has that property.
dereeder wins!
I guess type saves it. A Knight or Rats from the Black Market have that property too.
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Band of Misfits
Each of them has a property which is useless if the kingdom contains no actions other than that card. (For vineyard and quarry, "no actions other than that card" means simply "no actions", because those card aren't actions.
Tunnel, Market Square, University, Golem, Feodum, Catacombs, Hunting Grounds
Venture (as mentioned) can activate Tunnel. Farmland can activate MS, Feodum, Catacombs, HG. Golem could play (one) necropolis, which isn't a kingdom card.
Ack, misread your post as saying that it was the only card, not only action card. My bad. And Necropolis is clever.
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Quarry decreases the cost of Necropolis to 0, which matters for Black Market and then TfB. Also, Vineyards does count Necropolis, though it would still be worth 0 VP without Masquerade passing, which implies either Masquerade or Black Market in the Kingdom. You need to word the trait in a way that is really not about the effect but about the text referencing Kingdom cards's types.
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Quarry decreases the cost of Necropolis to 0, which matters for Black Market and then TfB. Also, Vineyards does count Necropolis, though it would still be worth 0 VP without Masquerade passing, which implies either Masquerade or Black Market in the Kingdom. You need to word the trait in a way that is really not about the effect but about the text referencing Kingdom cards's types.
dereeder did.
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That is not true of this puzzle. The common element is straightforwardly, objectively factual.
I stand corrected. Really interesting puzzle!
One key is that while there are a number of Action cards that refer to Actions, by definition there is always an action card in the Kingdom when such a card is in it.