Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Puzzles and Challenges => Topic started by: Captain_Frisk on December 14, 2011, 01:51:52 pm

Title: Crazy Openings
Post by: Captain_Frisk on December 14, 2011, 01:51:52 pm
I was discussing with theory regarding an upcoming article on Baron, and noticed something interesting:

On the council room openings page, there is the following opening listed:
3.559 ± 21.467      Border Village / Baron   6/4

Without the aide of the game search page: What are the ways in which this can happen?

Not as fiendish as some of the other puzzles in here, but was an interesting diversion.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Kirian on December 14, 2011, 02:15:52 pm
T1:  Opponent buys Noble Brigand, flipping two of your coppers.
T1:  Buy Baron with CCCCE.  Reshuffle and draw Baron-CCCE
T2:  Play Baron for $4, buy BV.  Gain something awesome.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: GendoIkari on December 14, 2011, 04:51:31 pm
Does the opening list show the order in which the cards were bought?
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Captain_Frisk on December 14, 2011, 08:42:13 pm
Does the opening list show the order in which the cards were bought?
I don't think so, it always seems to be "Higher Value -> Lower Value"
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: DG on December 14, 2011, 09:06:59 pm
I know we like these high powered openings but there's probably some poor person who's been given 2/3 as their starting hands by a noble brigand.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Thisisnotasmile on December 15, 2011, 05:01:27 am
I know we like these high powered openings but there's probably some poor person who's been given 2/3 as their starting hands by a noble brigand.

Unfortunately we can't tell that from the openings page on CR as people often buy down with openings like Chapel/Silver.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: brokoli on December 15, 2011, 07:00:40 am
An upcoming article on baron ? Yeah, I love this card  :D
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: rspeer on December 15, 2011, 07:11:39 am
I noticed you asked for "ways", plural. So should we still be trying to think of a different way?

By the way, don't bother trying to come up with a rational explanation for this one:

2.795 ± 23.113      Province / Wharf   8/5

That guy was just blatantly cheating, by spoofing the server in a way that has presumably been fixed long ago.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Lekkit on December 15, 2011, 08:15:10 am
It can "easily" be done in a 5 player game.

Player 1 buys Noble Brigand. Making every other player discard EE and thus giving them a Copper.
Player 2 buys Council Room. Drawing E C C CR C.
Player 3 buys Council Room. Drawing E C C CR C.
Player 4 buys Council Room. Drawing E C C CR C.
Player 5 buys Wharf. Drawing E C C Wharf C.

Player 1 does whaterver.
Player 2 plays CR. Making Player 5 draw C.
Player 3 plays CR. Making Player 5 draw C.
Player 4 plays CR. Making Player 5 draw C.
Player 5 now has E C C Wharf C C C C, playing a Wharf and getting the last two Coppers needed to buy a Province.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: DG on December 15, 2011, 09:52:51 am
I think the guy with the turn 2 province needs to post it up in the "great isotropic moments" thread.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: snappy on December 15, 2011, 12:45:34 pm
i think i have the province/wharf opening ...


player 4's first draw is ccccc, leaving two estates on top of the draw pile.

round 1
player 1 buys noble brigand, flipping 2 cards for everybody. player 4 flips 2 estates and gains a copper
player 2 buys embassy, giving everybody a silver, draws the embassy after the reshuffle
player 3 buys a masquerade, draws last 3 cards (since 2 were flipped), reshuffles, draws masq, silver
player 4 buys wharf, drawing estate and 2 coppers, reshuffles, draws silver, wharf. there are 8 cards (6 coppers, 2 estates) left in draw pile)

round 2
player 1 whatever
player 2 whatever
player 3 plays masq, passes a silver to player 4 (thanks, player 3!), who passes an estate
player 4 now has copper x 2, silver x 2, wharf in hand, plays wharf, draws 2 coppers province!




Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Anon79 on December 20, 2011, 12:39:50 am
How about this one?

7.057 ± 19.754  Platinum / Platinum 9/9
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Qvist on December 21, 2011, 08:41:03 am
I think no-one did reply because no-one has any plan how you could open Platinum/Platinum.
I think there are rare side cases you would be able to buy Platinum on turn 2. But how on earth anyone could open double Platinum???
Is there any way to check the respective log?
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: GendoIkari on December 21, 2011, 10:02:29 am
I think no-one did reply because no-one has any plan how you could open Platinum/Platinum.
I think there are rare side cases you would be able to buy Platinum on turn 2. But how on earth anyone could open double Platinum???
Is there any way to check the respective log?

I think there was a puzzle asking what it would take to buy a Colony on your first turn. It is possible, but you need like 8 players or something. With sufficient Masquerade tricks, they can pass you what you need before your first turn. I doubt it could ever happen without perfect shuffle luck, though.

Does Iso allow more than 6 player games?
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Voltgloss on December 21, 2011, 10:14:00 am
I think there was a puzzle asking what it would take to buy a Colony on your first turn. It is possible, but you need like 8 players or something. With sufficient Masquerade tricks, they can pass you what you need before your first turn.

I'm confused.  How can anyone play a Masquerade on their first turn? 
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Lekkit on December 21, 2011, 10:14:24 am
I could see it being done on the second turn, but I have no idea how you're supposed to get to play your first buy before everyone has played their first turn. It basically means that one player has to take two turns before the last player takes his first. Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: GendoIkari on December 21, 2011, 11:40:13 am
I think there was a puzzle asking what it would take to buy a Colony on your first turn. It is possible, but you need like 8 players or something. With sufficient Masquerade tricks, they can pass you what you need before your first turn.

I'm confused.  How can anyone play a Masquerade on their first turn?

Oops! Yeah, the puzzle was for second turn. I guess with sufficient players, and Nobel Brigand type stuff, you can have any number of coppers in your deck on your first turn, but you could never start your first turn with more than 5 cards. My mistake.

Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Thisisnotasmile on December 21, 2011, 11:43:55 am
Embassy can give you Silvers before your first turn, but I still can't find a way to get them into your hand...
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Anon79 on December 22, 2011, 05:26:47 am
I'm wondering whether the opening is really Turn 1 Platinum followed by Turn 2 Platinum, or if it is Turn 1 nothing followed by Turn 2 Platinum + Platinum (Talisman maybe?)
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: rspeer on December 22, 2011, 12:34:51 pm
How about this one?

7.057 ± 19.754  Platinum / Platinum 9/9

It's the same cheating dude.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: rspeer on December 22, 2011, 02:04:53 pm
Here's the game log of the Platinum/Platinum hax opening: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110210-131456-d0bf5b5e.html

Nothing about this game makes any sense.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: theory on December 22, 2011, 02:08:40 pm
Here's the game log of the Platinum/Platinum hax opening: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110210-131456-d0bf5b5e.html

Nothing about this game makes any sense.

Quote
--- bdhcompany's turn 1 ---
bdhcompany plays 3 Coppers.
bdhcompany buys a Platinum.
(bdhcompany draws: 4 Coppers and an Estate.)

--- bdhcompany's turn 3 ---
bdhcompany plays 2 Coppers and a Platinum.
bdhcompany buys a Gold.
(bdhcompany draws: 4 Coppers and an Estate.)
I'm so confused.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Voltgloss on December 22, 2011, 02:17:44 pm
It gets worse:

Quote
--- bdhcompany's turn 10 ---
bdhcompany plays a Copper and a Platinum.
bdhcompany buys a Colony.
(bdhcompany draws: a Copper, 2 Platinums, an Estate, and a Silver.)

Not to mention the turn 35 Sea Hag buy.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: theory on December 22, 2011, 03:33:58 pm
No, I mean, if with 3 Coppers you can buy a Platinum, why would you buy a Gold with 2 Coppers and a Platinum? 
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Kahryl on December 22, 2011, 03:46:07 pm
No, I mean, if with 3 Coppers you can buy a Platinum, why would you buy a Gold with 2 Coppers and a Platinum?

Because (3 coppers = $3) * (3 of a kind) = $9

But (2 coppers = $2) * (2 of a kind) + (1 gold = $3) is only $7
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Voltgloss on December 22, 2011, 03:58:47 pm
No, I mean, if with 3 Coppers you can buy a Platinum, why would you buy a Gold with 2 Coppers and a Platinum?

Because (3 coppers = $3) * (3 of a kind) = $9

But (2 coppers = $2) * (2 of a kind) + (1 gold = $3) is only $7

And yet later on...

Quote
--- bdhcompany's turn 8 ---
bdhcompany plays 3 Coppers.
bdhcompany buys a Silver.
(bdhcompany draws: 2 Coppers, 2 Platinums, and an Estate.)

This game should go in the Greatest Moments list as "Isotropic Gone Mad."
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Elyv on December 22, 2011, 04:00:01 pm
How does a game where someone opens platinum/platinum, even assuming they don't cheat the rest of the game, last 36 turns?
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: rspeer on December 22, 2011, 04:22:23 pm
How does one opponent put up with this nonsense for 12 turns and then resign, while the other one plays it straight, buys an Estate on turn 3, and then plays a reasonable KC/Wharf/money strategy for the rest of the game? The questions go on and on.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Elyv on December 22, 2011, 04:53:57 pm
A list of things against the rules in that log:

Code: [Select]
--- bdhcompany's turn 1 ---
bdhcompany plays 3 Coppers.
bdhcompany buys a Platinum.

--- bdhcompany's turn 2 ---
bdhcompany plays 4 Coppers.
bdhcompany buys a Platinum.

--- bdhcompany's turn 4 ---
bdhcompany plays 4 Coppers.
bdhcompany buys a Platinum.

--- bdhcompany's turn 5 ---
bdhcompany plays 3 Coppers and a Platinum.
bdhcompany buys a Platinum.

--- bdhcompany's turn 7 ---
bdhcompany plays 2 Coppers, a Platinum, and a Gold.
bdhcompany buys a Colony.

--- bdhcompany's turn 10 ---
bdhcompany plays a Copper and a Platinum.
bdhcompany buys a Colony.

--- bdhcompany's turn 12 ---
bdhcompany plays 4 Coppers and a Platinum.
bdhcompany buys a Colony.

--- bdhcompany's turn 18 ---
bdhcompany plays 2 Coppers, a Platinum, and a Gold.
bdhcompany buys a Colony.

--- bdhcompany's turn 19 ---
bdhcompany plays 2 Platinums.
bdhcompany buys a Colony.

Not that anything else actually makes sense either.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Razzishi on December 30, 2011, 01:41:47 am
Given that later in the game he pretty much sticks to the rules with increasingly rarer deviations, it almost looks like it could be that two of the guys Coppers are actually worth $7.  Then he buys a Colony with 2 Platinums.  I'm very confused.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Ferrouswheel on January 09, 2012, 02:34:28 pm
If you're just blatently cheating, why don't you just buy colonies from the get go? I can't think of a strategy that would beat someone buying a colony every turn starting turn one.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Young Nick on January 09, 2012, 03:50:42 pm
Somehow use Mint, King's Court, Saboteur and some other stuff to clear your deck and destroy his simultaneously? (If you are cheating, as well, this is.)
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Thisisnotasmile on January 09, 2012, 04:00:07 pm
If you're just blatently cheating, why don't you just buy colonies from the get go? I can't think of a strategy that would beat someone buying a colony every turn starting turn one.

I'm pretty sure Puzzle 1 (http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/05/05/dominion-puzzle-1-solution/) would beat it.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Elyv on January 09, 2012, 06:42:28 pm
If you're just blatently cheating, why don't you just buy colonies from the get go? I can't think of a strategy that would beat someone buying a colony every turn starting turn one.

I'm pretty sure Puzzle 1 (http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/05/05/dominion-puzzle-1-solution/) would beat it.
Well, that requires perfect shuffle luck.
Title: Re: Crazy Openings
Post by: Ferrouswheel on January 09, 2012, 09:06:55 pm
If you're just blatently cheating, why don't you just buy colonies from the get go? I can't think of a strategy that would beat someone buying a colony every turn starting turn one.

I'm pretty sure Puzzle 1 (http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/05/05/dominion-puzzle-1-solution/) would beat it.

Or I suppose cheating better, after all you couldn't beat a person who cheated to buy all the cards on their first turn, unless you did it first.