Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: silverspawn on August 01, 2014, 04:55:49 pm
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So, in a game earlier today I realized the following: when you have horse traders in hand and your opponent plays a minion, you can choose between this hand and a new hand (since if you do reveal horse tradres, minion attack doesn't affect you because you only have a 4card hand). however, when you choose not to reveal horse traders in order to get rid of a bad hand, your opponent can choose not to let you discard.
so, it should also be possible to fake a bad hand by not revealing horse traders, possibly stopping your opponent from doing more in his turn because he doesn't want to help you. this only works because of goko's implementation, you know that your opponent has horse traders in hand even if he doesn't use it, but it seems interesting. anyone ever done it?
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Horse Traders is an awesome counter for Minion for just this reason, sure. I'd have to say, though, that when I'm deciding between discarding or money with minion it rarely has to do with whether I think I'm going to hurt my opponent with the attack; it's more about whether I'm going to benefit from it. In minion games your opponent will likely end up with a Minion in hand anyway, so the attack isn't likely to be all that powerful. It might come up once in awhile though.
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HT works well with minion for yourself too, since you can discard to the HT and then "discard" to the minion to draw up again (provided you have a free action and at least 4 cards in hand).
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also, although ADK is correct that other considerations are usually foremost, you shouldn't disregard the discard attack of minion completely.
It's probably not as powerful as militia, but I don't think the difference is really that much.
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also, although ADK is correct that other considerations are usually foremost, you shouldn't disregard the discard attack of minion completely.
It's probably not as powerful as militia, but I don't think the difference is really that much.
the problem is probably rather the fact that it takes a considerate amount of balls to not reveal HT if you have a good hand
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also, although ADK is correct that other considerations are usually foremost, you shouldn't disregard the discard attack of minion completely.
It's probably not as powerful as militia, but I don't think the difference is really that much.
the problem is probably rather the fact that it takes a considerate amount of balls to not reveal HT if you have a good hand
I think the chance that your opponent will overreact and screw themselves over isn't worth not having a 6-card hand.
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also, although ADK is correct that other considerations are usually foremost, you shouldn't disregard the discard attack of minion completely.
It's probably not as powerful as militia, but I don't think the difference is really that much.
the problem is probably rather the fact that it takes a considerate amount of balls to not reveal HT if you have a good hand
I think the chance that your opponent will overreact and screw themselves over isn't worth not having a 6-card hand.
Obviously, ignoring the case where your hand is four green cards and HT.
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Obviously, ignoring the case where your hand is four green cards and HT.
but that's a bad hand, in that case if you don't reveal HT, you aren't trying to trick him.
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So, in a game earlier today I realized the following: when you have horse traders in hand and your opponent plays a minion, you can choose between this hand and a new hand (since if you do reveal horse tradres, minion attack doesn't affect you because you only have a 4card hand). however, when you choose not to reveal horse traders in order to get rid of a bad hand, your opponent can choose not to let you discard.
so, it should also be possible to fake a bad hand by not revealing horse traders, possibly stopping your opponent from doing more in his turn because he doesn't want to help you. this only works because of goko's implementation, you know that your opponent has horse traders in hand even if he doesn't use it, but it seems interesting. anyone ever done it?
totally off topic, but your signature says "rest in peace in peace."
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totally off topic, but your signature says "rest in peace in peace."
i thought this was a more common joke, but it may also be an insider. #rip in piece
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also, although ADK is correct that other considerations are usually foremost, you shouldn't disregard the discard attack of minion completely.
It's probably not as powerful as militia, but I don't think the difference is really that much.
I think that on average, it's definitely stronger than Militia. Especially early on, Militia is likely to be just like Cutpurse, because often they'll discard Estate and Copper. Or they might even discard 2 Eatates. In mid game, either they get to keep enough treasure to buy gold (if playing BM) or enough cards to start the draw (If playing engine). But with Minion, you can easily skip over their best cards, and leave them with a completely screwed hand. Of course you will sometimes also help them. But on average, I'd rather have the best 3 of 5 cards than have 4 average cards.
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totally off topic, but your signature says "rest in peace in peace."
i thought this was a more common joke, but it may also be an insider. #rip in piece
It sounds like something you should say about someone who was killed while using an ATM machine.
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Because they entered the wrong PIN number? While earning a PhD in philosophy?
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totally off topic, but your signature says "rest in peace in peace."
i thought this was a more common joke, but it may also be an insider. #rip in piece
It sounds like something you should say about someone who was killed while using an ATM machine.
no, he transformed into free energy.
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this only works because of goko's implementation, you know that your opponent has horse traders in hand even if he doesn't use it
This can work IRL too, if you have a good poker face. "Wait hold on, before you decide... no, never mind, go ahead..."
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this only works because of goko's implementation, you know that your opponent has horse traders in hand even if he doesn't use it
This can work IRL too, if you have a good poker face. "Wait hold on, before you decide... no, never mind, go ahead..."
You don't even actually need the HT in your hand IRL.
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this only works because of goko's implementation, you know that your opponent has horse traders in hand even if he doesn't use it
This can work IRL too, if you have a good poker face. "Wait hold on, before you decide... no, never mind, go ahead..."
You don't even actually need the HT in your hand IRL.
you're right, and this is actually useful. your opponent plays minion, you have a good hand. just pretend to have a HT in hand and choose not to reveal it. chances are he's going to let you discard anyway, but it's at least possible that he wont
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this only works because of goko's implementation, you know that your opponent has horse traders in hand even if he doesn't use it
This can work IRL too, if you have a good poker face. "Wait hold on, before you decide... no, never mind, go ahead..."
You don't even actually need the HT in your hand IRL.
Bonus points if your poker face is good enough to convince your opponent you have HT... even with HT not in the kingdom (or the Black Market).
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this only works because of goko's implementation, you know that your opponent has horse traders in hand even if he doesn't use it
This can work IRL too, if you have a good poker face. "Wait hold on, before you decide... no, never mind, go ahead..."
You don't even actually need the HT in your hand IRL.
That's what I was getting at.
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Is this really how that combo works? I would think that after an opponents minion, even if I reveal HT, I would still have to discard my hand because I had 5 cards in hand when the attack was played. The HT helps us recover after an attack, not prevent it from happening.
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Is this really how that combo works? I would think that after an opponents minion, even if I reveal HT, I would still have to discard my hand because I had 5 cards in hand when the attack was played. The HT helps us recover after an attack, not prevent it from happening.
No, cards that react to an attack being played are revealed as soon as the card is played, before any of the text on the card (other than the word "attack") is looked at at all. If it worked the way you are thinking, then Moat would simply not work at all, as the person hadn't revealed Moat yet when the attack was played.
You are correct that HT does NOT prevent an attack from happening. You would still gain a Curse from Witch, and you would still discard your hand if you had 5 cards in hand after discarding HT. (If you had drawn a card before from Council Room or Governor).