Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Variants and Fan Cards => Topic started by: gambit05 on July 17, 2014, 03:33:41 pm
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Maybe:
Bomb(Action)---(0)
+1 Buy
Trash a card from your hand.
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+1 Buy is not thematic, though. What if it did a weak attack, like
Each opponent with at least four cards in their hand discards a card. Trash a card from your hand.
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I would have gone with something like,
"Put one card from your hand on top of your deck. Trash this and every card in your hand."
You can save one card, but the bomb blows up everything else. This is enough trashing that it may actually be useful even if you have to buy a Potion-equivalent to get it.
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I would have gone with something like,
"Put one card from your hand on top of your deck. Trash this and every card in your hand."
You can save one card, but the bomb blows up everything else. This is enough trashing that it may actually be useful even if you have to buy a Potion-equivalent to get it.
but that isn't actually a terrible idea. isn't that beside the point?
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I would have gone with something like,
"Put one card from your hand on top of your deck. Trash this and every card in your hand."
You can save one card, but the bomb blows up everything else. This is enough trashing that it may actually be useful even if you have to buy a Potion-equivalent to get it.
but that isn't actually a terrible idea. isn't that beside the point?
This is in the variants section, but not in the bad idea thread.
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I would have gone with something like,
"Put one card from your hand on top of your deck. Trash this and every card in your hand."
You can save one card, but the bomb blows up everything else. This is enough trashing that it may actually be useful even if you have to buy a Potion-equivalent to get it.
That version should clearly cost $5/9.
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I would have gone with something like,
"Put one card from your hand on top of your deck. Trash this and every card in your hand."
You can save one card, but the bomb blows up everything else. This is enough trashing that it may actually be useful even if you have to buy a Potion-equivalent to get it.
That version should clearly cost $5/9.
Not exactly right since bomb2 is also self trashing, but I appreciate the subtlety.
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This is in the variants section, but not in the bad idea thread.
indeed, well it's not exactly an original idea. donald x has tried trashers who trash themselves before. we got a bunch. It definitely needs to trash more than one card, otherwise it's too close to island. I have a self trashing card in my set, so I do think it can work. but it probably needs to be more than "trash x cards then trash this"
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You could try something with overpay. Like
Bomb(Action) -- $0P
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand, then trash this card.
---------------
When you buy this, you may put your deck into your discard pile.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $2 you overpaid, search your discard pile for a card and trash it. Then, trash this card.
I think in this form, it would be pretty OP, because it lets you selectively trash. But, just having the Doctor overbuy would be too weak.
Maybe it would be slightly less powerful without the putting the deck into the discard phrase, but you'd just end up waiting for it, and I personally dislike waiting for shuffles. But something could be done with a one-off, on-buy trash.
I think it fits the theme of a bomb well. It costs potion because, well, you use chemicals to make bombs. More of a late game, get rid of exactly the 3 cards you need to for the cost of Possession.
And hey, if you ever find a way to get it into your deck(Swindle a Transmute?), it still at least does what the original did. Also, I think the way I worded it, you could still buy it normally at $0P and have it go into your deck.
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I would have gone with something like,
"Put one card from your hand on top of your deck. Trash this and every card in your hand."
You can save one card, but the bomb blows up everything else. This is enough trashing that it may actually be useful even if you have to buy a Potion-equivalent to get it.
Maybe you could make it so it can save more than one card. If you put them on your deck, you're still delaying a bit, so that might even it out.
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New attempt:
Bomb (Action)---(0)
Choose one:
+1 Card;
or discard a card;
or take a card from your discard pile
of your choice into your hand.
Choose one:
Put this bomb in your hand;
or on your discard pile; or on your deck;
or leave it in play. Trash all cards,
including this bomb, in that part of
your play area or hand.
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Too much text!
Bomb
Put any number of cards on your deck, then trash your hand.
That's my ideal version and it could still cost $0P, because you can't open with it (barring the usual exceptions) and thus have to delay your first trashing to turn 5 at the earliest. A Chapel you could play on turn 3 for instance.
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Bomb
Put any number of cards on your deck, then trash your hand.
I put all the Victory cards in the supply on my deck.
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;D From you hand obviously.
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Bomb
Put any number of cards on your deck, then trash your hand.
This misses the point of the card. It has to trash itself, yes?
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I would have gone with something like,
"Put one card from your hand on top of your deck. Trash this and every card in your hand."
You can save one card, but the bomb blows up everything else. This is enough trashing that it may actually be useful even if you have to buy a Potion-equivalent to get it.
That version should clearly cost $5/9.
Can someone explain the joke? (To make it funnier, of course).
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I would have gone with something like,
"Put one card from your hand on top of your deck. Trash this and every card in your hand."
You can save one card, but the bomb blows up everything else. This is enough trashing that it may actually be useful even if you have to buy a Potion-equivalent to get it.
That version should clearly cost $5/9.
Can someone explain the joke? (To make it funnier, of course).
There's a card in dominion which costs $5. It does one of 9 things. One of which is (basically) the proposed effect of Bomb.
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I would have gone with something like,
"Put one card from your hand on top of your deck. Trash this and every card in your hand."
You can save one card, but the bomb blows up everything else. This is enough trashing that it may actually be useful even if you have to buy a Potion-equivalent to get it.
That version should clearly cost $5/9.
Can someone explain the joke? (To make it funnier, of course).
There's a card in dominion which costs $5. It does one of 9 things. One of which is (basically) the proposed effect of Bomb.
ohh i didn't get that either. that's actually really funny. *upvote*
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You guys are clearly overthinking this card. Below is my publication ready set of 2 cards to fix all of the issues of this card.
Miner (Action) - $3
+1 Action
+$1
Trash a Bomb from your hand or reveal a hand without a Bomb and gain a bomb.
Bomb (Action) - This card is not in the supply
Trash a card from your hand
When this card is trashed, return it to the pile and +3 Cards and trash any number of cards from your hand.
I have not balanced or playtested but this is clearly good enough for publication as I have thought about it for 10 minutes. When using my awesome card make Potion represent Bomb and Mint to represent Miner. This way you don't have to print anything to play these great cards. Just grab the cards that you already have and you can play with this awesome pair of cards.
(I say the above in Jest, but I would love comments on the idea)
I really like pairs of cards ala Hermit/Madman and Urchin/Mercenary. Does this idea above have credence. I'm not experienced in fan cards so I don't want to assume anything. Ideally a pair should fit together thematically and I think these cards do that (with a nod to Stratego).
Miner is a weak card on its own. +1 Action, +$1 is clearly a very weak version of pawn. The bonus is that with Miner you gain a bomb. I thought about doing +2 Cards for the Bomb trash bonus but realized that the Miner/Bomb combo would be net hand-size neutral thus I added the extra card for the Bomb on trash making the combo of the two result in a +1 Action, +2 Card, +$1 type of card that additionally allows for trashing any number of cards.
Other questions, should you gain be able to gain a Bomb and trash a Bomb on one play of Miner? Bomb is clearly very weak played as an action by itself. However it does combo with other TfB cards.
I dunno, I started this post rather jokingly but now I am rather interested in refining my idea.
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Bomb:
Action, $0
Trash this and another card from your hand.
——————————————————
When you buy this, +1 Buy
This pile contains 20 cards.
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Bomb:
Action, $0
Trash this and another card from your hand.
——————————————————
When you buy this, +1 Buy
This pile contains 20 cards.
the game now ends on a 2pile. that's kind of problematic.
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Bomb:
Action, $0
Trash this and another card from your hand.
——————————————————
When you buy this, +1 Buy
This pile contains 20 cards.
the game now ends on a 2pile. that's kind of problematic.
I don't know why you're trying to rework what is clearly already a finished product...
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Bomb:
Action, $0
Trash this and another card from your hand.
——————————————————
When you buy this, +1 Buy
This pile contains 20 cards.
the game now ends on a 2pile. that's kind of problematic.
I made a card for one of the fan contests and put in a clause that increased the cost of the card for every card bought. It solved the self-pile drive problem while still allowing the concept of paying for an extra buy.
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(http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/4/40549/2635754-trollthreads.jpg)
no seriously is this a troll thread?
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Miner (Action) - $3
+1 Action
+$1
Trash a Bomb from your hand or reveal a hand without a Bomb and gain a bomb.
Bomb (Action) - This card is not in the supply
Trash a card from your hand
When this card is trashed, return it to the pile and +3 Cards and trash any number of cards from your hand.
okay, let's see. a copper at play and you gain a bomb. If they collide you gain the effect of 2 labs, a chapel, and a peddler. pretty sure that's too strong, because even though you need to build a lot to make it work, the payoff is just so good, and neither card is dead if they don't collide.
but something with this concept could probably work. it's not a terrible idea.
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no seriously is this a troll thread?
It's half parody thread and half serious discussion, as far as I can tell.
This is mostly a continuation of this thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11402.0), where a poor, misguided soul posted his bad expansion idea and then proceeded to aggressively ignore the torrent of helpful advice. The commentary was respectful at first, but the author's attitude quickly turned it around. He eventually got banned for some rather uncivil behaviour, both in the thread and in report PMs to theory.
One of the most obviously terrible cards in the expansion was Bomb. This thread has some serious discussion about similar cards that might actually work, as well as some less serious comments based on the original thread.
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Great synopsis, it's even more fun if you read it in Don LaFontaine's voice.
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Miner (Action) - $3
+1 Action
+$1
Trash a Bomb from your hand or reveal a hand without a Bomb and gain a bomb.
Bomb (Action) - This card is not in the supply
Trash a card from your hand
When this card is trashed, return it to the pile and +3 Cards and trash any number of cards from your hand.
okay, let's see. a copper at play and you gain a bomb. If they collide you gain the effect of 2 labs, a chapel, and a peddler. pretty sure that's too strong, because even though you need to build a lot to make it work, the payoff is just so good, and neither card is dead if they don't collide.
It's only 1 Lab plus Peddler and Chapel (your handsize increases only by one due to trashing Bomb), and you can at best collide every second Miner since you need the first Miner to gain the Bomb; so Miner effectively alternates between being just a Copper and being Lab+Peddler+Chapel even if you have perfect shuffle luck. You can also collide Bomb with any trasher to get an additional Lab+Chapel. Since Chapel on turn 5+ is not that strong, just make Miner cost $4, then you usually can't "drop the Bomb" before turn 5.
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Miner (Action) - $3
+1 Action
+$1
Trash a Bomb from your hand or reveal a hand without a Bomb and gain a bomb.
Bomb (Action) - This card is not in the supply
Trash a card from your hand
When this card is trashed, return it to the pile and +3 Cards and trash any number of cards from your hand.
okay, let's see. a copper at play and you gain a bomb. If they collide you gain the effect of 2 labs, a chapel, and a peddler. pretty sure that's too strong, because even though you need to build a lot to make it work, the payoff is just so good, and neither card is dead if they don't collide.
It's only 1 Lab plus Peddler and Chapel (your handsize increases only by one due to trashing Bomb), and you can at best collide every second Miner since you need the first Miner to gain the Bomb; so Miner effectively alternates between being just a Copper and being Lab+Peddler+Chapel even if you have perfect shuffle luck. You can also collide Bomb with any trasher to get an additional Lab+Chapel. Since Chapel on turn 5+ is not that strong, just make Miner cost $4, then you usually can't "drop the Bomb" before turn 5.
At $4, Miner would become exceptionally weak. Especially when you consider that you could only open Miner/Something. Get a single bomb in you deck on turns 3 and 4. You are then obligated to get another Miner or two in turns 3 and 4 in order to actually have a good chance of colliding your single bomb.
The thing is, once your first bomb, you trash your hand making subsequent bombs easier to hit. Perhaps move 1 card from the bomb trash to the Miner. That would make it a Peddler with a potential bonus which fits nicely for a $4-cost card. It makes it harder to get consistent bomb hits because its harder to amass Miner. The bonus for Miner is turning it into a Lab/Chapel, that is at least a $6/$7 card value. You can only get it every other Miner play and the bonus is conditional however failure to hit on a given reshuffle increases it's chance of success on subsequent shuffles.
You can compare to Caravan which is a $4-cost delayed Lab. Tournament is Peddler with potential for gaining a Prize or Duchy. Any thoughts on this change?
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Ideally a pair should fit together thematically and I think these cards do that (with a nod to Stratego).
This Stratego concept could be actually quite interesting. One could have a mixed pile with the following cards:
Spy (obviously needs a different name): Inspects (reveals the top card of) a second “Stratego”-pile face down. May remove those revealed cards or not (like the existing Spy)
Miner: Disarms (trashes) bombs.
Colonel: Beats (trashes) Spy, Flag, Miner, any potentially army unit of lower ranks.
Maybe other Army units, weaker and/or stronger than Colonel.
The 2nd “Stratego” pile contains the same cards and in addition:
Bomb (of course): Blows up (trashes) any card, except Miner, that revealed this card.
Flag: If revealed, gives a bonus to the player.
Cards in the face down pile come in different quantities, as in Stratego.
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Two plays of miner in the same turn are equivalent to a lab and two peddlers once you get your deck going; and they will get your deck going because they also get you superlative trashing, albeit a bit late. If they don't collide nicely, they're at worst two peddlers. Compare that with smithy + 4$ village, which are equivalent to two labs when they collide and not much at all when they don't (smithy will likely draw a lot of actions in that kind of deck).
The reworked miner seems way too strong for a 1 card combo IMHO.
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Miner (Action) - $3
+1 Action
+$1
Trash a Bomb from your hand or reveal a hand without a Bomb and gain a bomb.
Bomb (Action) - This card is not in the supply
Trash a card from your hand
When this card is trashed, return it to the pile and +3 Cards and trash any number of cards from your hand.
okay, let's see. a copper at play and you gain a bomb. If they collide you gain the effect of 2 labs, a chapel, and a peddler. pretty sure that's too strong, because even though you need to build a lot to make it work, the payoff is just so good, and neither card is dead if they don't collide.
It's only 1 Lab plus Peddler and Chapel (your handsize increases only by one due to trashing Bomb), and you can at best collide every second Miner since you need the first Miner to gain the Bomb; so Miner effectively alternates between being just a Copper and being Lab+Peddler+Chapel even if you have perfect shuffle luck. You can also collide Bomb with any trasher to get an additional Lab+Chapel. Since Chapel on turn 5+ is not that strong, just make Miner cost $4, then you usually can't "drop the Bomb" before turn 5.
At $4, Miner would become exceptionally weak. Especially when you consider that you could only open Miner/Something. Get a single bomb in you deck on turns 3 and 4. You are then obligated to get another Miner or two in turns 3 and 4 in order to actually have a good chance of colliding your single bomb.
You don't need a second Miner if you can buy any other (Action) trasher. Opening e.g. Forager/Miner (and maybe adding another Forager or Miner on T3/T4) is good enough to almost guarantee a collision with Bomb on the third shuffle.
The point of increasing the price to $4 was that you can't open double Miner, which would probably be far better than double Urchin IMO. (Colliding Miner/Bomb gives you twice the trashing and a better bonus than Mercenary, which is already strong.)
The thing is, once your first bomb, you trash your hand making subsequent bombs easier to hit. Perhaps move 1 card from the bomb trash to the Miner. That would make it a Peddler with a potential bonus which fits nicely for a $4-cost card. It makes it harder to get consistent bomb hits because its harder to amass Miner. The bonus for Miner is turning it into a Lab/Chapel, that is at least a $6/$7 card value. You can only get it every other Miner play and the bonus is conditional however failure to hit on a given reshuffle increases it's chance of success on subsequent shuffles.
You can compare to Caravan which is a $4-cost delayed Lab. Tournament is Peddler with potential for gaining a Prize or Duchy. Any thoughts on this change?
But "Peddler with a bonus" always costs $5, like Market, Treasury, Venture etc.
Tournament is NOT just a "Peddler with potential bonus", it also has a significant malus if your opponent reveals Province, then it's just a Ruined Village. (And even so, it's one of the strongest $4 cards.)
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Ooooh I know, change it to "when you discard this card, Trash it". That way you can be Prince of Bombs and play it every turn~! (I think.. you can choose "Set Aside" from Prince to happen before Trashing, right?)
Or how about Time Bomb. Does something nominal. When you discard it, trash your discard pile.
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Ooooh I know, change it to "when you discard this card, Trash it". That way you can be Prince of Bombs and play it every turn~! (I think.. you can choose "Set Aside" from Prince to happen before Trashing, right?)
Or how about Time Bomb. Does something nominal. When you discard it, trash your discard pile.
combos with streetswiper!
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Ooooh I know, change it to "when you discard this card, Trash it". That way you can be Prince of Bombs and play it every turn~! (I think.. you can choose "Set Aside" from Prince to happen before Trashing, right?)
Or how about Time Bomb. Does something nominal. When you discard it, trash your discard pile.
combos with streetswiper!
I don't know the reference :(
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Ooooh I know, change it to "when you discard this card, Trash it". That way you can be Prince of Bombs and play it every turn~! (I think.. you can choose "Set Aside" from Prince to happen before Trashing, right?)
Or how about Time Bomb. Does something nominal. When you discard it, trash your discard pile.
combos with streetswiper!
I don't know the reference :(
*sweeper (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=114.0)
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Ha, cool.
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What about something like Masquerade?
Bomb - $1G
Action
+2 Cards
Trash any number of cards from your hand and Bomb
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Okay, so my current vision of Miner/Bomb is too strong.
At present it is,
Miner (Action) - $4
+1 Action
+1 Card
+$1
______________________________________
When you play this trash a Bomb from your hand or reveal a hand with no Bomb cards and gain a Bomb
Bomb (Action) - $0*
Trash a card from your hand.
____________________________
When you trash this, +2 Cards and trash any number of cards from your hand. When this card is trashed, return it to the pile.
Maybe the following options could be considered.
1.) Price Miner at $5 - This would make it a Peddler/Lab/Chapel when connected with Bomb which could only be every other play. At $5 it would also limit how early you could obtain them and how quickly you could amass lots of Miners/Bombs.
2.) Remove the +Card from Miner - This would represent a significant nerf as a connected Miner/Bomb would only be a Peddler/Chapel. My gut is that this would be weak.
Any other thoughts? I'm sure that a rework could be done, but these are just the quick tweaks that I can see.