Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Non-Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Dsell on July 07, 2014, 04:05:41 pm
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Game 2 Spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QZg8k7PZfKcbZrxxd5VU0Aug0A9chtMFsrrxPh18NNA/edit?usp=sharing)
Apprentice is a game recently designed by me!
It's a resource collection game in which the actions you can take are determined by a moving/blocking game on a grid of tiles. The actions you can take grow stronger-and more expensive-the more times you use a certain building. The goal of the game is to get the most VP by creating potions and learning spells.
This game is still being playtested but I think what it needs at this point is refinement and balancing; overall I'm pleased with how the game is functioning on the whole. The game will be played by spreadsheet and either QT or PM (whichever you prefer) for the limited amount of hidden information. I haven't playtested with 4 players yet, I'm pretty sure it will work, but I'm gonna limit sign-ups to 3 for now.
Sign-ups:
1. mail-mi
2. Jotheonah
3. Ashersky
The rules are attached. When you sign up, pick a color to use for the game. Let me know if there are any ambiguities in the rules or if you have any questions. If any of the players or observers have comments or suggestions for the game or the rules, please let me know. I won't require the players to give feedback but I'm very, very appreciative of any thoughts that you can offer. I won't make any changes during the game (ok, it's extremely extremely unlikely) but I definitely might make changes for future games.
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Some things I'm looking for comments on:
General balance of the buildings, spells, and potions.
Feasibility of the Rapport and coin systems. Not too plentiful (unless you focus on them), not too scarce (unless you overuse them), just a nice balance. This seems ok in my experience but more data can't hurt.
Rules and presentation - specifically the balance of simplicity and specificity. There are cases where I'm not sure what to do, e.g. Laboratory: "Draw 1 Potion." vs. "Draw 1 card from the Potion Deck."
Flavor. A couple of the building names are essentially placeholders, a couple more are inside jokes. I added spell names recently and eventually I'd like to add names for each of the potions, too. Also, the Rapport system is not as thematic as I'd like, but I haven't really come up with anything better.
Game end. I don't love rounds as a measure of game length, although 24 rounds has coincidentally been a perfect length thus far. And I haven't thought of anything else that would work as a timer.
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Just one more thing I can comment on without actually playing the game (sorry for the spam):
Game end. I don't love rounds as a measure of game length, although 24 rounds has coincidentally been a perfect length thus far. And I haven't thought of anything else that would work as a timer.
Some random musings: you can have more than one trigger for the endgame. One player learning X spells, brewing Y potions or reaching Z points could end the game at the end of the turn, for example.
If you want to make the round limit a bit more flexible, you could instead end the game at the end of a round where one player runs out of fame tokens (and have everyone start with 25-30 tokens or whatever). It would mostly be the same than a round limit, because usually you only play one fame token per turn, but using the teleport taxi uses an extra one, so heavy use of the taxi gets you some control over when the game ends (if a player only has 2 fame tokens left, he can use the taxi to end the game without an extra round). Might or might not be a good idea, but at least you don't have to keep track of the number of rounds on a different sheet of paper.
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Instead of a piece of paper for rounds, make a circle thing, like the spinner for Twister. Split the pie into 24 (or however many) slices. Turn the pointer one slice every round.
It'd be fairly easy to make with some cardboard and crafts stuff from a craft store.
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Instead of a piece of paper for rounds, make a circle thing, like the spinner for Twister. Split the pie into 24 (or however many) slices. Turn the pointer one slice every round.
It'd be fairly easy to make with some cardboard and crafts stuff from a craft store.
That's a good idea! During the first game, Fame Cubes and Rapport were done after each turn rather than at the end of the round, and it was really hard (for me) to remember to indicate that a round had happened.
Just one more thing I can comment on without actually playing the game (sorry for the spam):
Game end. I don't love rounds as a measure of game length, although 24 rounds has coincidentally been a perfect length thus far. And I haven't thought of anything else that would work as a timer.
Some random musings: you can have more than one trigger for the endgame. One player learning X spells, brewing Y potions or reaching Z points could end the game at the end of the turn, for example.
If you want to make the round limit a bit more flexible, you could instead end the game at the end of a round where one player runs out of fame tokens (and have everyone start with 25-30 tokens or whatever). It would mostly be the same than a round limit, because usually you only play one fame token per turn, but using the teleport taxi uses an extra one, so heavy use of the taxi gets you some control over when the game ends (if a player only has 2 fame tokens left, he can use the taxi to end the game without an extra round). Might or might not be a good idea, but at least you don't have to keep track of the number of rounds on a different sheet of paper.
Not spam at all! I really, really appreciate the feedback, and the game will be better for it. I think I will try limiting the number of fame cubes for one of our RL games. Maybe try 28. If that works, that puts an excellent timer on the game that's adjustable for different numbers.
Potions or Spells may work, but I'm not sure I can envision that working as well as 24 rounds (or 26-30 fame cubes), because that has been a really excellent length thus far.
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Rules and presentation - specifically the balance of simplicity and specificity. There are cases where I'm not sure what to do, e.g. Laboratory: "Draw 1 Potion." vs. "Draw 1 card from the Potion Deck."
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If you have space, definitely the second one. Allows for you to put things other than Potions in the potion deck. Or lets you have everything in there not named Potion.
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I could do a playtest.
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once you learn a spell, can you cast it at any time? Can you brew potions multiple times?
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Potions or Spells may work, but I'm not sure I can envision that working as well as 24 rounds (or 26-30 fame cubes), because that has been a really excellent length thus far.
I don't particularly care for spell/potion end conditions from a purely theoretic point of view, but I mentioned them because, as the players get better, they will achieve more and more in a set amount of turns, which means that the last turns might become a bit degenerate if 24 rounds end up being too many. Ending the game after a player has learnt and/or brewed X spells and/or potions, independently of the number of rounds left, avoids that particular issue.
Something to keep in mind as the game gets more playtested.
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I could do a playtest.
Awesome! Color preference? And PMs or a QT for your potions?
once you learn a spell, can you cast it at any time? Can you brew potions multiple times?
Spells are learned just once and at that point you simply do what the text on the spell says. Some spells have an immediate effect (Gain $5), whereas some others have a persistent effect (You may move diagonally; whenever you draw from the potion deck, look at one more card). The spells can all be seen on sheets 2-4 of the master spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1inV-u5-biZt51-BLhfT1scp84YEOBL1tjqju09GHhiU/edit?usp=sharing).
Potions are much the same. Each potion is inactive until it's created and is created just once. At the end of your turn you may pay the RSC cost to create the potion and activate the potion's text. Some potions have an immediate effect (Gain 2 Leaves; All other players lose one Rapport) that take place once, whereas some provide variable amounts of VP, which are calculated at the end of the game.
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Rules and presentation - specifically the balance of simplicity and specificity. There are cases where I'm not sure what to do, e.g. Laboratory: "Draw 1 Potion." vs. "Draw 1 card from the Potion Deck."
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If you have space, definitely the second one. Allows for you to put things other than Potions in the potion deck. Or lets you have everything in there not named Potion.
Ok. I'll see what I can do to make the spacing work on the spreadsheet. On a notecard it's no big deal, I'd just prefer not to use size 8 font if possible.
It's an interesting idea to put not-potions in the potion deck. There are already a lot of different effects running around the game between potions and spells, but, something to consider.
Potions or Spells may work, but I'm not sure I can envision that working as well as 24 rounds (or 26-30 fame cubes), because that has been a really excellent length thus far.
I don't particularly care for spell/potion end conditions from a purely theoretic point of view, but I mentioned them because, as the players get better, they will achieve more and more in a set amount of turns, which means that the last turns might become a bit degenerate if 24 rounds end up being too many. Ending the game after a player has learnt and/or brewed X spells and/or potions, independently of the number of rounds left, avoids that particular issue.
Something to keep in mind as the game gets more playtested.
That's a good point. I am hoping that the Rapport/Fame Cube system will keep things from getting too degenerate since the really big actions are very Rapport-expensive, but who knows at this point.
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I could do a playtest.
Awesome! Color preference? And PMs or a QT for your potions?
Blue, I guess. And PMs.
once you learn a spell, can you cast it at any time? Can you brew potions multiple times?
Spells are learned just once and at that point you simply do what the text on the spell says. Some spells have an immediate effect (Gain $5), whereas some others have a persistent effect (You may move diagonally; whenever you draw from the potion deck, look at one more card). The spells can all be seen on sheets 2-4 of the master spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1inV-u5-biZt51-BLhfT1scp84YEOBL1tjqju09GHhiU/edit?usp=sharing).
Potions are much the same. Each potion is inactive until it's created and is created just once. At the end of your turn you may pay the RSC cost to create the potion and activate the potion's text. Some potions have an immediate effect (Gain 2 Leaves; All other players lose one Rapport) that take place once, whereas some provide variable amounts of VP, which are calculated at the end of the game.
At least with spells, that might be a little bit of a flavor fail. Intuitively, it seems like learning a spell should let you cast it later, rather than it being a one time action that creates the spell's effect.
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once you learn a spell, can you cast it at any time? Can you brew potions multiple times?
Spells are learned just once and at that point you simply do what the text on the spell says. Some spells have an immediate effect (Gain $5), whereas some others have a persistent effect (You may move diagonally; whenever you draw from the potion deck, look at one more card). The spells can all be seen on sheets 2-4 of the master spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1inV-u5-biZt51-BLhfT1scp84YEOBL1tjqju09GHhiU/edit?usp=sharing).
Potions are much the same. Each potion is inactive until it's created and is created just once. At the end of your turn you may pay the RSC cost to create the potion and activate the potion's text. Some potions have an immediate effect (Gain 2 Leaves; All other players lose one Rapport) that take place once, whereas some provide variable amounts of VP, which are calculated at the end of the game.
At least with spells, that might be a little bit of a flavor fail. Intuitively, it seems like learning a spell should let you cast it later, rather than it being a one time action that creates the spell's effect.
Well, more than half the spells are a permanent bonus for the remainder of the game.
How I'd envisioned it is that the old Sorcerer has given you 24 hours to go out and do these tasks and has made you drink some sort of potion so you don't have to sleep (let's be real, it's a Four Loko) while you run around visiting all these shops. At the library, you've got maybe an hour so you study real hard. At the end of an hour, you're ready to try your spell and - voila! the lump of lead that was part of the my-first-spell kit is now five shiny gold coins. Or, wow! you're invisible now! That'll be great for sneakin'. When you're in a mad dash for the graveyard you're not so much thinking about re-doing the spell from a few hours back, man, you don't even have your spellbook. Plus, it's better not to try the patience of whoever's in charge of the realm you summoned those imps from.
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I think a timer for turns could add to the frantic-ness you are seeking flavor-wise.
Maybe a spell that introduces a minute-glass?
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I think a timer for turns could add to the frantic-ness you are seeking flavor-wise.
Maybe a spell that introduces a minute-glass?
This is a neat idea but becomes downright cruel at the end. Apprentice crescendoes HARD: the first few rounds are simple and rote, but the last few can become very brain-burning. I've spent way more than a minute considering options for those last few rounds. Limiting it to a minute or even 90 seconds would definitely take some of the enjoyment out of it for people like me who like to puzzle over the optimized solution.
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I think a timer for turns could add to the frantic-ness you are seeking flavor-wise.
Maybe a spell that introduces a minute-glass?
This is a neat idea but becomes downright cruel at the end. Apprentice crescendoes HARD: the first few rounds are simple and rote, but the last few can become very brain-burning. I've spent way more than a minute considering options for those last few rounds. Limiting it to a minute or even 90 seconds would definitely take some of the enjoyment out of it for people like me who like to puzzle over the optimized solution.
I really like the "I only have 24 hours to do this!" thing. Maybe a spell that affects everyone's next turn only. It's a drawback for yourself, too, so maybe has a bonus for learning it.
Just an idea. I can be your third play tester.
Maroon/QT.
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Woohoo Ashersky! We'll get this up and running as soon as mail-mi's available.
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once you learn a spell, can you cast it at any time? Can you brew potions multiple times?
Spells are learned just once and at that point you simply do what the text on the spell says. Some spells have an immediate effect (Gain $5), whereas some others have a persistent effect (You may move diagonally; whenever you draw from the potion deck, look at one more card). The spells can all be seen on sheets 2-4 of the master spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1inV-u5-biZt51-BLhfT1scp84YEOBL1tjqju09GHhiU/edit?usp=sharing).
Potions are much the same. Each potion is inactive until it's created and is created just once. At the end of your turn you may pay the RSC cost to create the potion and activate the potion's text. Some potions have an immediate effect (Gain 2 Leaves; All other players lose one Rapport) that take place once, whereas some provide variable amounts of VP, which are calculated at the end of the game.
At least with spells, that might be a little bit of a flavor fail. Intuitively, it seems like learning a spell should let you cast it later, rather than it being a one time action that creates the spell's effect.
Well, more than half the spells are a permanent bonus for the remainder of the game.
How I'd envisioned it is that the old Sorcerer has given you 24 hours to go out and do these tasks and has made you drink some sort of potion so you don't have to sleep (let's be real, it's a Four Loko) while you run around visiting all these shops. At the library, you've got maybe an hour so you study real hard. At the end of an hour, you're ready to try your spell and - voila! the lump of lead that was part of the my-first-spell kit is now five shiny gold coins. Or, wow! you're invisible now! That'll be great for sneakin'. When you're in a mad dash for the graveyard you're not so much thinking about re-doing the spell from a few hours back, man, you don't even have your spellbook. Plus, it's better not to try the patience of whoever's in charge of the realm you summoned those imps from.
I like 24 rounds a lot better now that I know a round = an hour. That actually makes it go from a wtfrandom number to a very easy-to-remember intuitive number. In the printed version, you could track it on a spinner that looks like a clock.
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once you learn a spell, can you cast it at any time? Can you brew potions multiple times?
Spells are learned just once and at that point you simply do what the text on the spell says. Some spells have an immediate effect (Gain $5), whereas some others have a persistent effect (You may move diagonally; whenever you draw from the potion deck, look at one more card). The spells can all be seen on sheets 2-4 of the master spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1inV-u5-biZt51-BLhfT1scp84YEOBL1tjqju09GHhiU/edit?usp=sharing).
Potions are much the same. Each potion is inactive until it's created and is created just once. At the end of your turn you may pay the RSC cost to create the potion and activate the potion's text. Some potions have an immediate effect (Gain 2 Leaves; All other players lose one Rapport) that take place once, whereas some provide variable amounts of VP, which are calculated at the end of the game.
At least with spells, that might be a little bit of a flavor fail. Intuitively, it seems like learning a spell should let you cast it later, rather than it being a one time action that creates the spell's effect.
Well, more than half the spells are a permanent bonus for the remainder of the game.
How I'd envisioned it is that the old Sorcerer has given you 24 hours to go out and do these tasks and has made you drink some sort of potion so you don't have to sleep (let's be real, it's a Four Loko) while you run around visiting all these shops. At the library, you've got maybe an hour so you study real hard. At the end of an hour, you're ready to try your spell and - voila! the lump of lead that was part of the my-first-spell kit is now five shiny gold coins. Or, wow! you're invisible now! That'll be great for sneakin'. When you're in a mad dash for the graveyard you're not so much thinking about re-doing the spell from a few hours back, man, you don't even have your spellbook. Plus, it's better not to try the patience of whoever's in charge of the realm you summoned those imps from.
I like 24 rounds a lot better now that I know a round = an hour. That actually makes it go from a wtfrandom number to a very easy-to-remember intuitive number. In the printed version, you could track it on a spinner that looks like a clock.
I love the idea of a clock if it stays at 24 rounds. Yeah, the 24 just started as a very easy number that fit in with the flavor I had in mind for the game, but it has worked out really perfectly so far. I had initially thought it would just be the end condition until I could figure something better out, and that may still be the case, but I also think I may have been too biased against a fixed end-game condition. It seems to create tension when everyone knows how exactly how much time they have left.
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/tag! This game looks really fun, Dsell!
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/tag! This game looks really fun, Dsell!
Thanks! Hope you can get in on the next game I run, assuming there's enough interest.
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Game 2 Spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QZg8k7PZfKcbZrxxd5VU0Aug0A9chtMFsrrxPh18NNA/edit?usp=sharing)
Starting potions going out soon, and then it will be jotheonah up to pick a starting location.
Edit: mail-mi, I'll send your starting potions by PM but if you would rather have a QT to keep track of potions just let me know!
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hehehehehe
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Potions sent, game is on!
Jotheonah is up first to pick a location, followed by mail-mi, and then finally Ashersky.
After initial placements Round 1 will happen, which is simply using the buildings you're on. I'll automate the ones that don't require a choice; let me know what your choice is for the ones that do. From Round 2 on, you'll move and then use the building, telling me your choice if necessary.
Also, Ash, could you move this to the non-mafia forum games thread?
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Moved, can't really work on this until Sunday forum time, though.
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Moved, can't really work on this until Sunday forum time, though.
Thanks! And no problem.
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I'll start on the Greenhouse.
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should I go now or wait for you to update?
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should I go now or wait for you to update?
I've updated, just didn't post in the thread. Go for it. You can always take your turn before I update, I'll catch up. Just make sure you're not moving onto on occupied location.
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I'll start on the morgue
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(Spreadsheet updated, ashersky's turn to choose)
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Cult of the Newt
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Since there is no movement and none of the buildings require choices, I've automated Round 1.
Round 2 start!
Jo's up.
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So we all gained 1 rapport and place a fame cube on our buildings?
This round we can stay put and use the building, or do we have yo move?
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So we all gained 1 rapport and place a fame cube on our buildings?
This round we can stay put and use the building, or do we have yo move?
Correct. During Round 1 you used the buildings you were on and at the end of the round, gained 1 Rapport and placed a Fame Cube on the building you're on.
At the beginning of all future rounds, you must move (either to an adjacent unoccupied building or by using the Teleport-Taxi and moving to an unoccupied building) and then use the building.
The only exception is if there are no unoccupied adjacent buildings and you cannot afford the Rapport cost of the T-T. In this case (or if you cannot afford the cost (in Rapport or $) of the building you're on), you forfeit the building's action and gain 1 Rapport instead.
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I'll go to the library and learn alchemy.
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Updated.
Mail-mi's turn.
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greenhouse.
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shouldn't I have 2 rapport now? I didn't spend one last turn
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shouldn't I have 2 rapport now? I didn't spend one last turn
No, you start with none and get one at the end of each round; you'll get another at the end of this round.
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oh, I was thinking end of turn. k. also, my only options next turn will be the wand shop and the teleport taxi, right?
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oh, I was thinking end of turn. k. also, my only options next turn will be the wand shop and the teleport taxi, right?
Correct, depending on Ashersky's move.
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It's kind of annoying, I was looking at the master spreadsheet, not the game 2 one, when I picked my starting square. But I might have chosen it anyway.
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It's kind of annoying, I was looking at the master spreadsheet, not the game 2 one, when I picked my starting square. But I might have chosen it anyway.
Ah, sorry. Yeah, the buildings are randomized each game. Since there are 2 game spreadsheets now, I can remove the links to the master and just use it when creating new games. That should aid with the confusion, at least in the future.
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Laboratory
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Spreadsheet updated.
Round 3 start!
jotheonah's turn.
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teleport taxi to emporium
buy 1 leaf
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greenhouse.
by going to something, does that automatically mean I use the building, or do I have to have to do a separate action to use it?
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greenhouse.
by going to something, does that automatically mean I use the building, or do I have to have to do a separate action to use it?
You automatically use that building. Just saying the building is enough unless that building requires a choice.
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Spreadsheet updated.
mail-mi's turn.
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Spreadsheet updated.
mail-mi's turn.
cool.
magic storehouse/
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I dunno if I can just go, but [edited to not give ashersky information because I accidentally went out of turn]
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Edit: Spreadsheet updated with mail-mi's move.
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Maybe you can edit it out of your quote? Or maybe that's silly.
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Maybe you can edit it out of your quote? Or maybe that's silly.
No problem. :)
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Already saw it...
In real life with friends, I definitely would block.
But teleport to transmogrification station, copy library, learn swiftness.
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Already saw it...
In real life with friends, I definitely would block.
But teleport to transmogrification station, copy library, learn swiftness.
Processed, but I feel I should point out that the Library was open and $2 cheaper. I'm assuming you realize this and have a plan, but just in case. (I'll give you a mulligan if you didn't realize and want to do that instead.)
Round 4 start!
Processed Jo's move as well, assuming it's the same as what you wanted to do earlier.
mail-mi's turn.
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it is! for the record, More Bank for your Buck(TM)
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so, do fame cubes make things more expensive, or do they allow you to get better things?
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so, do fame cubes make things more expensive, or do they allow you to get better things?
Both. They make the buildings more expensive because you have to pay Rapport equal to the number of Fame Cubes on the building to use it. But, each building's action gets stronger as you add Fame Cubes. The left-most column of numbers on each building is the number of your Fame Cubes on the building; the more Fame Cubes, the stronger the associated action.
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Already saw it...
In real life with friends, I definitely would block.
But teleport to transmogrification station, copy library, learn swiftness.
Processed, but I feel I should point out that the Library was open and $2 cheaper. I'm assuming you realize this and have a plan, but just in case. (I'll give you a mulligan if you didn't realize and want to do that instead.)
Round 4 start!
Processed Jo's move as well, assuming it's the same as what you wanted to do earlier.
mail-mi's turn.
Yeah, but money serves no endgame purpose and isn't required for everything, and I don't want to be that with a bunch of money and no points. Plus this gets me a discount later.
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Shouldn't my taxi be one less cube?
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Can i move fame cubes off the taxi with the witching room?
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Already saw it...
In real life with friends, I definitely would block.
But teleport to transmogrification station, copy library, learn swiftness.
Processed, but I feel I should point out that the Library was open and $2 cheaper. I'm assuming you realize this and have a plan, but just in case. (I'll give you a mulligan if you didn't realize and want to do that instead.)
Round 4 start!
Processed Jo's move as well, assuming it's the same as what you wanted to do earlier.
mail-mi's turn.
Yeah, but money serves no endgame purpose and isn't required for everything, and I don't want to be that with a bunch of money and no points. Plus this gets me a discount later.
Ok, great. Just wanted to make sure you were aware of your options.
Shouldn't my taxi be one less cube?
Everyone starts with 1 cube on the taxi.
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Can i move fame cubes off the taxi with the witching room?
Ah, good question. No. The taxi is not a "building" so anything that refers to "buildings" is not referring to the taxi. It just functions like one. I need to make sure that's clear in the rules.
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But I learned Swiftness, which reduced fame cost by 1, I thought.
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Can i move fame cubes off the taxi with the witching room?
Ah, good question. No. The taxi is not a "building" so anything that refers to "buildings" is not referring to the taxi. It just functions like one. I need to make sure that's clear in the rules.
Okay.
Witching Room, move fame cube on Magic Storehouse to Graveyard.
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But I learned Swiftness, which reduced fame cost by 1, I thought.
Yes, but you used the taxi before learning Swiftness. Anytime you use the taxi in the future, it'll cost you one less Rapport.
Perhaps Swiftness could be simplified by making it say "Remove 1 Fame Cube of your color from the Teleport-Taxi." That would serve the same function and you wouldn't have to remember.
I think I'll make that change for future games.
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wow, our last two posts were exactly the same timestamp. i didn't even get a warning.
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cult of the newt
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wow, our last two posts were exactly the same timestamp. i didn't even get a warning.
Weird!
And updated. Ashersky's turn.
Edit: Ash beat me to it, by virtue of me leaving this reply open while adjusting the spreadsheet. :P
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Updated through Ashersky.
Round 5 start!
Jo's up.
(I love how quick this is going! :D)
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Greenhouse
And then I believe I have enough Leaves to brew a potion.
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Greenhouse
And then I believe I have enough Leaves to brew a potion.
You do indeed! I went ahead and did it for you, hope that's what you were wanting.
Updated, mail-mi's turn.
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Graveyard
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ok, I have to go for now, so our speedy streak ends. but since ash can't affect it anyway, my next move is the magic storehouse
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Graveyard
Updated, Ash's turn.
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ok, I have to go for now, so our speedy streak ends. but since ash can't affect it anyway, my next move is the magic storehouse
Which RSC will you want?
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ok, I have to go for now, so our speedy streak ends. but since ash can't affect it anyway, my next move is the magic storehouse
Which RSC will you want?
won't he just get $3?
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ok, I have to go for now, so our speedy streak ends. but since ash can't affect it anyway, my next move is the magic storehouse
Which RSC will you want?
won't he just get $3?
Yes! My bad, looked at the wrong spreadsheet for a moment.
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ok, I have to go for now, so our speedy streak ends. but since ash can't affect it anyway, my next move is the magic storehouse
Could I not have used the taxi to go to the Magic Storehouse?
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ok, I have to go for now, so our speedy streak ends. but since ash can't affect it anyway, my next move is the magic storehouse
Could I not have used the taxi to go to the Magic Storehouse?
You could and can.
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Laboratory
Learn Dimension Door
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Laboratory
Learn Dimension Door
Wait, can I only learn spells if I'm at the Library? If so, this is not the move I want to take.
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Laboratory
Learn Dimension Door
Wait, can I only learn spells if I'm at the Library? If so, this is not the move I want to take.
Still Lab
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You're correct, library is the only place to learn spells.
I'll continue processing things, but I'm away from my computer for the rest of the night, so expect it to be slower.
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Ash, you can pick your potion in your QT.
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let's say i am on the morgue. does that mean i have to pay one rapport and one dollar to get 2 eyes? or are rapports just for the taxi?
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let's say i am on the morgue. does that mean i have to pay one rapport and one dollar to get 2 eyes? or are rapports just for the taxi?
You are correct. Anytime there is a Fame Cube of your color on a building, that represents how much Rapport you have to spend to use that building. Fame Cubes on the taxi work the same way, except that you place the Fame Cube as soon as you use it, rather than at the end of the round.
If there are no Fame Cubes of your color on the building, you can use it and you will have a net gain of Rapport for the round but you'll be taking a more basic action. As you use buildings with more fame cubes, you'll have a net loss of Rapport but take a more powerful action.
The cost in coins is an additional and separate cost from the Rapport cost. It has nothing to do with Fame Cubes and is determined exclusively by the building.
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Alrighty. Spreadsheet updated through jo.
Round 6 start!
mail-mi's up.
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how come mail-mi's going first all of a sudden? I was going first at the start, but we don't seem to be switching off every round...
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how come mail-mi's going first all of a sudden? I was going first at the start, but we don't seem to be switching off every round...
He's not going first, I just already processed your move to the magic storehouse you requested earlier.
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ohhhhh, silly me.
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TT to the Morgue, gain 2 eyes, use 3 eyes and 1 leaf to complete a potion.
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mail-mi created the potion that causes all other players to lose 1 Rapport.
Spreadsheet updated.
Ashersky's turn.
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magic storehouse
-
magic storehouse
Jo is already there, sorry.
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If I port to the library, I won't spend cash since I don't have rsc, right?
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If I port to the library, I won't spend cash since I don't have rsc, right?
Correct. If you can't afford the Rapport cost or the cost in coins of a building, you forfeit the action and instead gain 1 rapport.
Using the Taxi would use your last Rapport.
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more bank
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Updated.
Round 7 start!
Jo's turn.
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greenhouse
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Emporium for 1 eye
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Updated.
Ashersky's turn.
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wand shop - eye
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library, learn Spontaneous Generation
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Updated.
Round 8.
mail-mi's turn!
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Cult of the Newt
-
Updated.
Ash's turn.
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morgue
-
morgue
Also, learn the 2 eyes/1 newt potion.
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Spreadsheet updated.
Round 9 start!
jotheonah's turn.
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I still have my RSC? Do they not get used up by the potion creation?
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I still have my RSC? Do they not get used up by the potion creation?
My mistake, thanks for catching that. Fixed now.
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Wand shop, transform my leaf into an eye.
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Updated.
mail-mi's turn.
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TS as library, learn the spell that costs one newt. swiftness i think
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If you happened to be watching the spreadsheet, you might have noticed that I made and then subsequently fixed a mistake with your move. Anyway, we're up to date!
Ashersky's turn.
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Emporium --> Newt
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Round 10 start!
jotheonah's turn.
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back to the library, learn clairvoyance
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Updated.
mail-mi!
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Game update (won't affect ongoing forum games): I'm making a couple small tweaks to hopefully improve balance. None of these have been tested yet, but should be within a couple days.
Witching Room: The first two actions are swapped. Now with 0 cubes you swap 2 buildings and with 1 cube you move fame cubes. Hopefully this will lead to a bit more swapping of buildings (hopefully not so much that things get out of control) and will let you move a larger number of fame cubes.
Wand Shop: The first two actions remain unchanged, but the third action becomes "Draw 1 card from the Potion Deck, then transform 2 RSC." This ought to be stronger and introduces another way to get potions into the game. Being able to draw a potion and then immediately get what you need for it is super nice.
The potions have names!! I actually will add these to the spreadsheets. These aren't set in stone, still open to suggestions.
Purely cosmetic, but the Taxi is gonna be a different shape from the rest of the buildings to help avoid confusion.
I'm wondering about buffing Clairvoyance. I'm not sure that it needs it (it might be better at higher skill levels) but it seems to be a bit less desirable than the other green spells. Gonna keep this one in mind.
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Graveyard
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morgue
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Updated.
Round 11 start!
jotheonah's turn.
Reminder: I'll have limited availability starting tonight until Monday. I'll keep up with this as well as I can, but remember that you can keep playing and I'll catch up when possible. Just be extra aware of your location, Rapport, money, etc.
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greenhouse
and then brew my other potion!
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greenhouse
and then brew my other potion!
Updated, but you don't have quite what you need for the other potion yet.
mail-mi's turn.
-
oh, I forgot I used my eye already to learn clairvoyance. no matter!
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Graveyard--sorry, been gone and couldn't really access the spreadsheet.
-
bump
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I'm back. Spreadsheet updated with mail-mi's move.
Ashersky's turn!
-
wand shop, eye to leaf
-
Updated.
Round 12 start!
jo's turn.
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storehouse, get an eye
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and then brew that potion!
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Updated.
mail-mi's turn!
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laboratory
-
Updated.
Ashersky's turn.
-
Bank for Buck
-
Updated.
Round 13 start!
Jo's turn.
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Witching room, move 2 fame cubes from the Magic Storehouse to the laboratory.
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Updated.
mail-mi's turn.
-
magic storehouse
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emporium, leaf and eye
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I'l just jump in. Graveyard
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me too! greenhouse
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Awesome!
Updated through mail-mi.
Round 14.
Ashersky's up.
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Cult of the Newt, learn 2 Newts/2 Leaves/1 Eye spell
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Cult of the Newt, learn 2 Newts/2 Leaves/1 Eye spell
I meant brew potion, there.
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Cult of the Newt, learn 2 Newts/2 Leaves/1 Eye spell
I meant brew potion, there.
Which teaches me Alchemy.
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Updated!
Round 15 start!
Jo's up.
-
Laboratory. Don't forget I get to look at an extra card because of Clairvoyance.
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Updated. (Jo gained a newt due to Spontaneous Generation)
mail-mi's turn.
-
Is my rapport total correct?
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Is my rapport total correct?
No it wasn't. I rushed into drawing cards for you from the lab and forgot to have you pay the Rapport cost. Thank you for noticing, fixed now. (You have 2 Rapport)
-
T-T to cult of newt
-
T-T to cult of newt
wait, change this to emporium, gain 2 eyes.
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T-T to cult of newt
wait, change this to emporium, gain 2 eyes.
and nvm make it 1 eye 1 newt
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question: can you learn a red spell before you learn the green and yellow spells underneath it?
-
question: can you learn a red spell before you learn the green and yellow spells underneath it?
Yes. (Assuming you have at least two Fame Cubes on the library)
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question: can you learn a red spell before you learn the green and yellow spells underneath it?
Yes. (Assuming you have at least two Fame Cubes on the library)
okay cool.
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Updated.
Ashersky's turn.
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If I go Tramsmog, do I do the second level X since I have a fame cube there?
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If I go Tramsmog, do I do the second level X since I have a fame cube there?
Yeah, you'll be able to do the "1" of any building.
-
Transmog library, learn diagonal movement.
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Updated.
Round 16 start! (8 rounds remain)
Jo's turn.
-
Cult of the Newt
-
Updated.
mail-mi's up.
-
more bank
-
Ashersky's up.
-
Taxi, greenhouse
-
Updated.
Round 17 start!
jotheonah's turn.
-
Emporium, two eyes
-
Updated.
mail-mi's turn.
-
what happens if i don't have enough money to get do the X on a building?
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what happens if i don't have enough money to get do the X on a building?
Then after you take your movement action, you forfeit the building action and gain 1 Rapport.
-
ok. lab
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Spreadsheet updated.
Ashersky's turn.
-
can I go ahead and brew one of my new potions now? (the 2 eye, 2 newt one) Or did I technically have to do that on my turn?
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can I go ahead and brew one of my new potions now? (the 2 eye, 2 newt one) Or did I technically have to do that on my turn?
Yeah, potion brewing is at the end of your turn. You can brew multiple potions in the same turn though. Let's wait for your turn, I hope that doesn't screw up your plans.
-
Magic Storehouse
-
Updated.
Round 18 Start! (7 rounds to go)
jo's up.
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More bank then brew potion
-
Updated.
mail-mi's turn.
-
Graveyard and brew my newest potion
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Updated!
Ashersky's turn.
-
greenhouse for 2 leaves.
-
Updated.
Round 19 Start! (6 to go)
Jotheonah's turn.
-
Can I go to a tile and not do the action even if I am able?
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Can I do cheaper tile actions if I have more fame cubes? Like, can I do a 1 action with 2 cubes?
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Can I go to a tile and not do the action even if I am able?
No, you must do the action if you're able.
If you can't afford the Rapport cost or cost in coins, you take 1 Rapport instead of doing the action. Otherwise, you must do the action of the building you're on.
Can I do cheaper tile actions if I have more fame cubes? Like, can I do a 1 action with 2 cubes?
No, you must do the action associated with the number of fame cubes on the tile.
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Ashersky cut me off! I guess I'll taxi to the Library, learn Summon Imps. Get as many leaves as possible. Then brew my last potion.
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Updated. Since mail-mi had no RSC, you didn't steal anything there. You stole 1 Leaf from Ashersky and took 3 leaves from the bank, giving you 5 total, enough to brew your potion.
mail-mi's turn.
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Basically, tiles work like:
First visit = do the 0 action
Second visit = do the 1 action
Third visit = do the 2+ action
For gameplay ease, I'd change it. Order the actions as "arrive on tile, place fame cube, follow instructions." That way, it's:
First visit = 1 cube action
Second visit = 2 cube action
Third visit = 3+ cube action
The numbers align that way.
-
taxi to more bank
-
Magic Storehouse - Leaf
-
Greenhouse, forfeit turn, gain a rapport
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Basically, tiles work like:
First visit = do the 0 action
Second visit = do the 1 action
Third visit = do the 2+ action
For gameplay ease, I'd change it. Order the actions as "arrive on tile, place fame cube, follow instructions." That way, it's:
First visit = 1 cube action
Second visit = 2 cube action
Third visit = 3+ cube action
The numbers align that way.
The rapport cost structure would be thrown off. Since you don't start with any rapport, this would actually make it impossible to do anything on the first turn, as written. This could be fixed by paying 1 rapport less than the number of your fame cubes there, but that seems needlessly confusing.
To fix it, it'd have to be "arrive on tile, follow instructions, place a fame cube," which I realize sort of defeats the purpose of your suggestion since the actions would have to be labelled from 0. Incidentally, though, this is pretty similar to how the game first started. It was actually "arrive on tile, follow instructions (including paying rapport), place fame cube, gain a rapport." It ended up being really fiddly. It was too much to do on your turn: having to remember to pay rapport, then place a fame cube, then gain rapport. And that's in addition to your movement and action. Since the game was measured in rounds anyway, it made a lot of sense to simplify it and better demarcate rounds by placing a fame cube and gain rapport at the end of the round.
Let me know if I'm missing something.
Edit: Maybe you meant, "arrive on tile (paying rapport cost), place fame cube, follow instructions." Rapport cost structure would still work that way. However, I think that's not as great because you can't look at a tile, look at the number of cubes there, and immediately determine the action you can take. You have to add 1. Maybe that's not so bad, but the current method eliminates that potential confusion as well as the fiddlyness of placing a fame cube during your turn.
Also, updated!
Round 20 start! (Five to go)
jo's turn.
PPE: Updated through jo now.
mail-mi's turn.
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emporium for three newts
-
Updated.
Ashersky's up.
-
taxi to transmog
Learn summon imps
Steal newt from mail-mi, eye and 2 leaves from bank.
Learn 2 leaves, 2 eyes potion.
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Updated.
Round 21 Start! (4 rounds to go)
Jotheonah's up.
(My math has been bad in updating how many rounds "to go"... I've fixed it now but I apologize for any confusion. To be clear, the game will end after round 24)
-
magic storehouse
-
Updated.
mail-mi's up.
-
cult of the newt
-
do you get any vp for money or rapport at the end of the game?
-
Updated.
Ashersky's turn.
do you get any vp for money or rapport at the end of the game?
No, just potions and spells.
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I don't think my Rsc are right.
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It's right, nvm.
Graveyard.
-
Updated.
Round 22 start!! (3 rounds to go!)
Jo's up.
-
Greenhouse
-
Updated.
mail-mi is up.
-
Transmorg as library, learn Wondrous Aura
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Transmorg as library, learn Wondrous Aura
You don't have enough money for that. You have $2, that takes $4.
-
Transmorg as library, learn Wondrous Aura
You don't have enough money for that. You have $2, that takes $4.
it says $2, do any other X. doesn't it?
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Transmorg as library, learn Wondrous Aura
You don't have enough money for that. You have $2, that takes $4.
it says $2, do any other X. doesn't it?
Yes, but the library also costs $2. Perhaps I need to be clearer on that somehow. But essentially, you pay your rapport and $2 to the station and it becomes an exact copy of another building with rapport prepaid. You still have to pay any additional costs.
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Transmorg as library, learn Wondrous Aura
You don't have enough money for that. You have $2, that takes $4.
it says $2, do any other X. doesn't it?
Yes, but the library also costs $2. Perhaps I need to be clearer on that somehow. But essentially, you pay your rapport and $2 to the station and it becomes an exact copy of another building with rapport prepaid. You still have to pay any additional costs.
oh okay. then taxi to more bank
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Hope that confusion didn't mess your plans up too much.
Updated!
Ashersky's turn.
-
Magic StoreHouse --> Newt
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Confirm for me again, you are able to take the action associated with the number of fame cubes on a tile when you arrive. So if you arrive and there is 1 cube, you can do the 1 cube action. You don't put down the 2nd cube until the end of the round, right?
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Confirm for me again, you are able to take the action associated with the number of fame cubes on a tile when you arrive. So if you arrive and there is 1 cube, you can do the 1 cube action. You don't put down the 2nd cube until the end of the round, right?
Correct. Since you're the last person each round, I do all of the round end stuff after your turn. (So I can see why the order might be confusing.)
Updated.
Round 23 start! (2 rounds remain)
jo's turn.
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Well you guys are jerks. Would I be right in thinking library is my only option here?
If so, library. Learn nothing?
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Well you guys are jerks. Would I be right in thinking library is my only option here?
If so, library. Learn nothing?
Unfortunately so...
Updated.
mail-mi's up.
-
taxi to transmog, now do it.
-
Updated.
Ashersky's turn.
-
witching room
Move 1 fame cube off:
Magic storehouse
Transmog
Cult of the newt
And put 2 on library and 1 on graveyard.
-
I thought you could only move cubes from one building to one other building.
-
I thought you could only move cubes from one building to one other building.
I read it as as many cubes from building to building, but not from one to two or more.
-
Jo's interpretation is correct. One building to one other building.
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That's unfortunate. I'd reword that building for sure, as I built my entire strategy around what I thought was synergy with that potion. I saw "any number" and assumed incorrectly. One building to another read as one way movement to me.
I guess I'll do one from transmog down to graveyard.
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I think safer wording is "rearrange the fame cubes of any pair of buildings."
Another critique is that a few of the tiles are lacking thematic consistency. To me, each visit to a tile should increase my reward. Like, 1 Rsc > 2 Rsc > 3 Rsc.
The storehouse and witching room just change rewards, which can turn you off from visiting more than once.
I think thematically, maybe $3 > $2 + 1 Rsc > $1 + 1 Rsc + 1 Rapport works better. Or keep $ the same and add something to each level.
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Sorry about that, Ashersky. I like your terminology suggestion and I'll do my best to make sure it's clear in the future.
Moving fame cubes is pretty strong, it'd be too good (not to mention making Prestige Potion way too strong) if it let you rearrange any way you wanted.
As for the Storehouse and Witching Room, I was hoping to have a couple of buildings that mixed things up since that adds another dimension of planning to the game, especially for actions that are more interesting but less essential to the core of the game. That's a pretty good description of Witching Room, but not so much the Storehouse. I'll consider changing it to your suggestion, try a couple of games the way you suggested.
The Storehouse was created because I felt that there should be another way to get money and another way to get resources. It worked from the start and, well, if it ain't broke don't fix it. It hasn't changed, but that doesn't mean it's the best it could be. Thanks for the suggestion!
Anyhow, updated.
Round 24 start!! Final Round!
Jo's turn.
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Actually I was thinking maybe the storehouse could give you first money, then money and a resource, then money, a resource, and rapport.
I'm pretty sure it does not matter what I do with my turn. I'll just try to teleport somewhere inconvenient. Let's say the laboratory.
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Updated.
mail-mi's up.
Actually I was thinking maybe the storehouse could give you first money, then money and a resource, then money, a resource, and rapport.
This is pretty similar to what Ash was suggesting. I think it sounds like a good idea!
Edit: fixed a mistake on the spreadsheet, forgot to give mail-mi his Rapport for Wondrous Aura.
-
taxi to morgue, create the 2 eyes 1 newt potion
i should have enough rapport because t-t costs 1 less.
-
taxi to morgue, create the 2 eyes 1 newt potion
i should have enough rapport because t-t costs 1 less.
Yep, exactly enough. :)
Updated.
Ashersky's up to make the last move of the game!!
-
I'm short one dollar...so taxi to the transform Rsc one, change the newts to make my final potion.
-
And...Game Over!!
The final scores are:
mail-mi: 23
Ashersky: 29
And the winner, with 31 points...jotheonah!! Congratulations!
Thanks for playing guys!!! I really appreciate it and I hope you all had fun. Sorry about the confusion along the way, I hope it wasn't too bad.
I'm happy to hear any more suggestions for or critiques of the game, I appreciate your contributions along the way. Also, I'd love to hear your overall impressions of the game and whether you'd play again.
Congrats again to jo for the win!
-
Oh, also, the game has had some changes since this was posted. Some terminology has changed (all the potions have names! Rapport is now Favor, etc.) and the rules have been updated. Some of the buildings and potions have had some changes based on feedback. If I run a new game (or if anybody requests it) I'll share the current state of the game.
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If witching room worked the way I thought, I would have won, I think.
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I liked the game. The playing experience was unique and distinct from other games I've played. A few times it felt like between rapport, money, and RSC there were too many resources to manage, but I think in person, with actual chits to trade in for money and rapport, that wouldn't be such a big problem.
There's some variance in which potions you get and how well they synergize with each other, but it's no worse than, say, the variance in Ticket to Ride based on what tickets you draw. And having spells to learn helps mitigate it.
Has anyone learned invisibility in a practice game yet? Having played once (and been blocked from my plans several times) invisibility suddenly seems much stronger than it did when I first looked at the board. Once you get it, the game becomes largely non-interactive and you can simply follow your own plan. That might actually be too strong/unfun because it keeps other players from trying to mobilize to stop the leader from winning.
-
You also might consider making the teleport taxi free in cases where the player is forced to use it. That makes getting boxed in a little less feel bad.
-
Oops, I thought I had responded to this earlier.
Thanks for the comments! I'm really glad you liked it.
I liked the game. The playing experience was unique and distinct from other games I've played. A few times it felt like between rapport, money, and RSC there were too many resources to manage, but I think in person, with actual chits to trade in for money and rapport, that wouldn't be such a big problem.
There's some variance in which potions you get and how well they synergize with each other, but it's no worse than, say, the variance in Ticket to Ride based on what tickets you draw. And having spells to learn helps mitigate it.
I'm so happy that it was a unique gaming experience! I was concerned while conceiving it that there was sure to be a game out there with similar mechanics that I was simply unfamiliar with. Still could be.
There are kind of a lot of resources. After the first game, I thought about trying to eliminate coins. Instead, I ended up making things a bit less finicky and it seemed to work out after that. Now that I've played a bunch more games, things feel like they interlock well.
Glad to hear the potion variance didn't seem over the top. There are definitely some good combos in there, but I've tried to mitigate bad luck by allowing players to look at extra cards in a lot of situations. I've also toyed with the idea of making the potion deck smaller or maybe removing panacea altogether to reduce variance. But I like the potion effects so I'm resistant to the idea. I thought of a change to Telepathy earlier (changing "Draw 3 potions" to "Draw a potion every time you learn a spell") that might also help smooth out draws.
Has anyone learned invisibility in a practice game yet? Having played once (and been blocked from my plans several times) invisibility suddenly seems much stronger than it did when I first looked at the board. Once you get it, the game becomes largely non-interactive and you can simply follow your own plan. That might actually be too strong/unfun because it keeps other players from trying to mobilize to stop the leader from winning.
Yes, Invisibility has been learned a lot, it's a favorite of my group's (although my style is to try to go without it). It's strong, to be sure. Initially, it was a green spell, but that changed after the first game because it was clearly too strong and also made the game less interactive much sooner. And it definitely does reduce interaction (but remember that just because you cannot be blocked does not mean you can't block) and ganging up, but it's also an expenditure of resources to get Invisibility that could have been used for something else.
I've proposed the idea of making it a red spell, but people didn't like that. Maybe that's just my play group, who seriously have a thing for it, but it seems like it'd just be too late to matter. Something else would have to be tacked on, and maybe that's ok. In fact, maybe I should try to switch Invisibility with the new top half of Telepathy from above.
Overall, my personal opinion is that it's not bad the way it is. Aside from a couple people I've playtested with loving it maybe too much, it doesn't seem like it's been learned substantially more than the other yellow spells, and I've seen success with it and without it. It's pretty satisfying to win after not learning Invisibility when both opponents had it. Plus, even though it removes some interaction, I think that fits with the flow of the game, which moves from a lighter, "take that!" style game to a puzzler towards the end. Kinda tricks people into having a deeper experience than they thought. This whole paragraph is just my opinion though, based on my style as a gamer. Certainly not everyone will agree. I guess my best advice would be, play another game and try Invisibility. See what you think.
Oh and one last thing about Invisibility that I just thought of and don't love, is that it changes a lot with different player counts. It's way more important in 4 player than 2. So maybe this is a good reason to consider scrapping it, maybe it's a good reason to swap it with Telepathy, I don't know. But it's something to keep in mind.
You also might consider making the teleport taxi free in cases where the player is forced to use it. That makes getting boxed in a little less feel bad.
This is totally brilliant. Idk if it'll be a situation that arises often enough for it to matter, but I want to try the game this way. It just gives a perfect out, in fact a strong advantage, to someone who's getting ganged up on too much. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Does anyone have any suggestions for the spreadsheet? Anything I could do to make it better or easier to read if I were to run the game again? I know there's a fair amount to keep track of so I'd like to make it as accessible as possible.
-
I'll give my impressions tomorrow. I will say, overall a really positive experience and I think I'd play it irl for sure.
-
I'll give my impressions tomorrow. I will say, overall a really positive experience and I think I'd play it irl for sure.
Thank you! I love to hear that. :D
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So, I think the game loses something in the pbf format, and I can really see it being much better with big tiles, funny art, and sitting around a table with friends. I hope you go that route (and not boring, serious tiles).
I think there's probably still a few balance tweaks, but nothing too major. One thing I felt like I was lacking during the game was a good sense of where we were points-wise. In Dominion, for example, even without the points counter, I have a sense of who's leading, who's got how many Provinces, etc. Here, I just didn't know. I guess I could have tried to figure it out, though.
I think I agree a bit with Jo that tracking multiple types of resources (3 RSC, fame cubes, Rapport, money) is a bit much. Maybe it's not so bad in person with different things to hold, but pbf-wise it was tough.
It'd be neat if there was a way to earn VP each turn.
I gave you my wording suggestions for a few of the tiles. It'll be good to see how that works out.
I know this sounds like a list of criticisms, but I'm just looking at it from a playtester perspective. I think it's a good game, and would be fun in person for sure. I really want funny, colorful tiles, though.
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So, I think the game loses something in the pbf format, and I can really see it being much better with big tiles, funny art, and sitting around a table with friends. I hope you go that route (and not boring, serious tiles).
Yes, definitely! This is my vision for the game. The theme is fun, I want the game to be fun, and when the theme is connected to the game, usually everybody's happy. Yay.
I think there's probably still a few balance tweaks, but nothing too major. One thing I felt like I was lacking during the game was a good sense of where we were points-wise. In Dominion, for example, even without the points counter, I have a sense of who's leading, who's got how many Provinces, etc. Here, I just didn't know. I guess I could have tried to figure it out, though.
All the points are public in spells or played potions (potions that are withheld until the end of the game..that's obviously harder to know), but it is kind of a pain to check on the spreadsheet.
I think I agree a bit with Jo that tracking multiple types of resources (3 RSC, fame cubes, Rapport, money) is a bit much. Maybe it's not so bad in person with different things to hold, but pbf-wise it was tough.
Yeah, especially for the play-by-forum, I wish it was slightly simpler. In person, everything is different so it doesn't feel so bad. I...am not sure what to do about this to make it easier. Very possibly there isn't anything I can do, and if that's the case, I do apologize. Maybe it's just not ideal for a forum setting.
It'd be neat if there was a way to earn VP each turn.
Do you have any specific ideas for this? I'm hesitant to add VP tokens to the game, because more tokens.
I know this sounds like a list of criticisms, but I'm just looking at it from a playtester perspective. I think it's a good game, and would be fun in person for sure. I really want funny, colorful tiles, though.
Not at all, I appreciate your input! I'm really glad you like it. I will definitely take your wording changes to heart, there are a lot of small tweaks I need to make.
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I guess a lot of the VPs are counted up at the end of the game, like my VPs per 2 fame cube tiles, or just 5 VP on a spell learned.
I was thinking a potion you could learn that just generates a VP every round after you learn it -- it'd have to cost a lot, though, or it could get out of hand. Instead, how about a potion you could learn that gives you an extra rapport a turn, or an RSC each round? Those already have tokens. Is there one that does that already? Or one that gives you a dollar every round.
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I guess a lot of the VPs are counted up at the end of the game, like my VPs per 2 fame cube tiles, or just 5 VP on a spell learned.
I was thinking a potion you could learn that just generates a VP every round after you learn it -- it'd have to cost a lot, though, or it could get out of hand. Instead, how about a potion you could learn that gives you an extra rapport a turn, or an RSC each round? Those already have tokens. Is there one that does that already? Or one that gives you a dollar every round.
I really like that idea, especially potions that give you extra Rapport or coins every turn. I wanted to design potions with more incentive to create them early rather than holding on to them. I'm not sure which potion effects I'd replace for this, and also it kind of sucks to draw this towards the end of the game. It'd still be good for vp though. Hmmm. Seems tricky to balance, but I love that sort of effect, something simple that lets you build up over time.
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I guess a lot of the VPs are counted up at the end of the game, like my VPs per 2 fame cube tiles, or just 5 VP on a spell learned.
I was thinking a potion you could learn that just generates a VP every round after you learn it -- it'd have to cost a lot, though, or it could get out of hand. Instead, how about a potion you could learn that gives you an extra rapport a turn, or an RSC each round? Those already have tokens. Is there one that does that already? Or one that gives you a dollar every round.
I really like that idea, especially potions that give you extra Rapport or coins every turn. I wanted to design potions with more incentive to create them early rather than holding on to them. I'm not sure which potion effects I'd replace for this, and also it kind of sucks to draw this towards the end of the game. It'd still be good for vp though. Hmmm. Seems tricky to balance, but I love that sort of effect, something simple that lets you build up over time.
What's good about, say, +1 Rapport every turn, is that while it affects what you can do each turn, it doesn't actually add points to track. You can limit it, like "Gain 1 Rapport every turn, unless you have 5 or more Rapport."
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I guess a lot of the VPs are counted up at the end of the game, like my VPs per 2 fame cube tiles, or just 5 VP on a spell learned.
I was thinking a potion you could learn that just generates a VP every round after you learn it -- it'd have to cost a lot, though, or it could get out of hand. Instead, how about a potion you could learn that gives you an extra rapport a turn, or an RSC each round? Those already have tokens. Is there one that does that already? Or one that gives you a dollar every round.
I really like that idea, especially potions that give you extra Rapport or coins every turn. I wanted to design potions with more incentive to create them early rather than holding on to them. I'm not sure which potion effects I'd replace for this, and also it kind of sucks to draw this towards the end of the game. It'd still be good for vp though. Hmmm. Seems tricky to balance, but I love that sort of effect, something simple that lets you build up over time.
What's good about, say, +1 Rapport every turn, is that while it affects what you can do each turn, it doesn't actually add points to track. You can limit it, like "Gain 1 Rapport every turn, unless you have 5 or more Rapport."
That's a perfect limiter. I'm not sure which potions to change to try this on, though. You're right that it ought to be tough enough that it can't be done right away.
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You could easily enough add "points so far" to the player sheets on the spreadsheet for the Pbf version.
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You could easily enough add "points so far" to the player sheets on the spreadsheet for the Pbf version.
I thought about doing this, but I'd either have to ignore the "at the end of the game" stuff or have to keep track of a lot of extra stuff each turn. The first risks heavily misrepresenting the score and the second risks me making mistakes, so I just decided against it. If you guys think it would help, though, I'd absolutely do one of the two for all future games.
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I really liked the game, I'd post more comments but I'm on phone.
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I really liked the game, I'd post more comments but I'm on phone.
Glad you enjoyed it! :D