Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion Online at Shuffle iT => Dominion General Discussion => Goko Dominion Online => Topic started by: Awaclus on June 27, 2014, 06:50:59 pm
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http://forum.makingfun.com/showthread.php?4873-Dominion-Development-Update-June-27-2014&p=25626#post25626
In a nutshell, they're going to rewrite the entire Goko code. That will let them make updates faster, since the new code will be simpler. The new system will be ready later in 2014, and until it is, they restart their servers at 8am PDT each Monday. They're going to implement Prince and a bug fix.
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A lot has been going on behind the scenes at Dominion Online in this first half of 2014, and we wanted to give you an update. We have successfully separated out Dominion from the other Goko games and added incremental features, such as:
• Improved card highlighting to help prevent accidental trashing/discarding
• Revised Show All/More Cards user interface that doesn't bury the cards you want to find
• Long-overdue fixes to bugs, including the broken Kick button, the unsorted bot list, rules bugs like those involving Lighthouse and trashing reactions, and more
However, things have not moved as quickly as we would have liked on big issues like site stability. The engineers were new to the project and the process of coming up to speed on the Goko code was prolonged. Ultimately, they were simply unable to solve some of the hard problems. This is because the back-end system is an extremely complicated generic game platform, not Dominion-specific code. It includes dozens of features that some game might use, but Dominion never will. That complexity has become counter-productive to simply delivering a great Dominion experience, which is our primary mission.
As a result, we are rewriting the system from scratch so it is specific to Dominion. With less complexity, we will be in the happy new position of being able to put out improvements much more rapidly.
We have also started over with the mobile (iOS/Android) client that had been in development last year. We are using Unity, a mature technology that has proven itself over and over in the gaming industry. This will allow us to re-launch a more stable web game, and then shortly thereafter launch on tablets and then phones.
We have two improvement / bug-fix releases planned (the second one adding the new Prince promo card), and otherwise we are spending most of our energy on the new system. Until this system is released later in 2014, we will go offline at 8am PDT each Monday to restart the servers for optimal performance. There are great things in store for Dominion Online fans in the future. Thank you for hanging in there with us.
For those too lazy for the link
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...they're going to rewrite the entire Goko code...
Time to quote one of the good old ones.
(http://i.qkme.me/3sk9cg.jpg)
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Well, I think this is both good and bad. I think it is bad because it means likely Salvager will no longer work. So, that means, we will need a Salvager 2.0 because I don't expect automatch or a good rating system or other valued features. However, this is good thing because I have a feeling there won't be any damn lag, and I think MF will provide a better gaming experience.
The real question though is do they expect us to pay again for everything?
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Well, I think this is both good and bad. I think it is bad because it means likely Salvager will no longer work. So, that means, we will need a Salvager 2.0 because I don't expect automatch or a good rating system or other valued features. However, this is good thing because I have a feeling there won't be any damn lag, and I think MF will provide a better gaming experience.
The real question though is do they expect us to pay again for everything?
I wouldn't worry about it. Nobody who says "I don't understand our existing code, so I'm going to rewrite it all from scratch, better!" ever finishes that rewrite.
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My question is how did Goko manage to create such a messy code in the first place.
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My question is how did Goko manage to create such a messy code in the first place.
The outsourced it.
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My question is how did Goko manage to create such a messy code in the first place.
The outsourced it.
Which is interesting, when you think about it. The original plan for Goko was that they would build this HTML5 platform, which would make it easy to implement games on top of it. That way, they could implement all sorts of board games on top of the same HTML5 engine. A while back, if you googled around, they had a developer page where you could request access to the API/platform to build games off of.
Then it turns out either their engine was bad, or it still takes lots of code to use that engine properly. I'd optimistically hope the second was true and was what got outsourced, with the engine made in-house, but this is Goko...that they're moving to Unity instead of trying to use their existing platform means both could be true.
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The new system will be ready later in 2014
I'll believe it when I see it.
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I wouldn't worry about it. Nobody who says "I don't understand our existing code, so I'm going to rewrite it all from scratch, better!" ever finishes that rewrite.
I'm inclined to be skeptical about any rewrite, as you are, and I fully expect the date to slip. Q1-Q2 2015 would not surprise me at all, depending on the resources they manage to marshal. On the other hand, we know that Dominion is not that hard of a project; several people have completed solo implementations in (presumably) their spare time, so even trying to fit into a few unusual constraints (existing player databases, store, need for animations, etc.) a small team of full-timers should be able to tackle the project. Furthermore, we have reason to believe that the existing implementation is unusually bad and poorly-architected, which makes "start from scratch" a more appealing prospect than it otherwise would.
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The new system will be ready later in 2014
I'll believe it when I see it.
That's very generous, it would take a lot to convince me I'm not dreaming or hallucinating.
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If it's just a back-end rewrite (as they seem to imply, although it's not clear), then Salvager will still work. It's plausible to me that the rewrite could be worth doing because they say the existing backend is excessively generic and that's why it's hard to work with.
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[quote ]
The expansions and promo cards you own here online will transfer over so you won't need need to buy anything over again. Your account info, including your Dominion ratings will transfer over. We will not call the new system's hard currency Gokoins anymore, but we convert all your Gokoins to the new currency.
[/quote]
Looks like Gokoins will be going away.
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If it's just a back-end rewrite (as they seem to imply, although it's not clear), then Salvager will still work. It's plausible to me that the rewrite could be worth doing because they say the existing backend is excessively generic and that's why it's hard to work with.
There is plenty of front-end code that is really messy and excessively generic. I'm not too optimistic about Salvager continuing to work right away.
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Man, the extent of Goko's failures have been nothing if not fascinating
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One day we will have to write a history book of online dominion.
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If it's just a back-end rewrite (as they seem to imply, although it's not clear), then Salvager will still work. It's plausible to me that the rewrite could be worth doing because they say the existing backend is excessively generic and that's why it's hard to work with.
If they're actually rewriting it in Unity, mods aren't going to work. Like, I don't think it's possible to write a mod for a Unity game.
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It's of course sad that all the work put into Salvager will be obsolete if they rewrite the code. On the other hand, not even Salvager can fix the stability issues we've been seeing on Goko. If the rewrite results in a more stable product, then it's worth it.
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If it's just a back-end rewrite (as they seem to imply, although it's not clear), then Salvager will still work. It's plausible to me that the rewrite could be worth doing because they say the existing backend is excessively generic and that's why it's hard to work with.
If they're actually rewriting it in Unity, mods aren't going to work. Like, I don't think it's possible to write a mod for a Unity game.
I'm hoping that they mean that the framework will be used for the mobile client, and that the web version will remain HTML and JS. I've managed to use the same machine for 8 years now, and I don't want a Dominion rewrite to be the thing that finally forces me to upgrade.
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If it's just a back-end rewrite (as they seem to imply, although it's not clear), then Salvager will still work. It's plausible to me that the rewrite could be worth doing because they say the existing backend is excessively generic and that's why it's hard to work with.
If they're actually rewriting it in Unity, mods aren't going to work. Like, I don't think it's possible to write a mod for a Unity game.
I'm hoping that they mean that the framework will be used for the mobile client, and that the web version will remain HTML and JS. I've managed to use the same machine for 8 years now, and I don't want a Dominion rewrite to be the thing that finally forces me to upgrade.
It states they are first launching the Unity version for web browsers and then later as an app.
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It's of course sad that all the work put into Salvager will be obsolete if they rewrite the code. On the other hand, not even Salvager can fix the stability issues we've been seeing on Goko. If the rewrite results in a more stable product, then it's worth it.
Agreed about stability, but the question is what features will be gone? Will we no longer have automatch? Will we no longer have a way to stack cards? Will we no longer have a log we can see at all times without to click a button to read it? Will we no longer have a prettified log that is easy to read and sorts everything by color? What about the VP counter? Will that be gone too? I'm not 100% sure I would trade stability for all of these features. Also, we now have chat on the side. We get a little ding when someone joins our games. We have a black list. We have a kingdom generator.
Hopefully, MF implements most to all of these features with the new rewrite. If not, then we might be in for another "Dark Ages," although not as bad as when Goko first came around and isotropic shut down.
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If it's just a back-end rewrite (as they seem to imply, although it's not clear), then Salvager will still work. It's plausible to me that the rewrite could be worth doing because they say the existing backend is excessively generic and that's why it's hard to work with.
If they're actually rewriting it in Unity, mods aren't going to work. Like, I don't think it's possible to write a mod for a Unity game.
I'm hoping that they mean that the framework will be used for the mobile client, and that the web version will remain HTML and JS. I've managed to use the same machine for 8 years now, and I don't want a Dominion rewrite to be the thing that finally forces me to upgrade.
It states they are first launching the Unity version for web browsers and then later as an app.
That does indeed seem to be what they're saying.
Well, damn.
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It's of course sad that all the work put into Salvager will be obsolete if they rewrite the code. On the other hand, not even Salvager can fix the stability issues we've been seeing on Goko. If the rewrite results in a more stable product, then it's worth it.
Agreed about stability, but the question is what features will be gone? Will we no longer have automatch? Will we no longer have a way to stack cards? Will we no longer have a log we can see at all times without to click a button to read it? Will we no longer have a prettified log that is easy to read and sorts everything by color? What about the VP counter? Will that be gone too? I'm not 100% sure I would trade stability for all of these features. Also, we now have chat on the side. We get a little ding when someone joins our games. We have a black list. We have a kingdom generator.
Hopefully, MF implements most to all of these features with the new rewrite. If not, then we might be in for another "Dark Ages," although not as bad as when Goko first came around and isotropic shut down.
This set of questions is probably worth posting to the MF forums.
Granting here that they already have my money, so it's not as though I can make a meaningful threat to leave... but we can definitely generate even more negative press.
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There's no point asking a supplier to rely on 3rd party software that they have no control over and is generally unknown to prospective customers. Making Fun need to make their own product into something good enough to bring in new customers.
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It's of course sad that all the work put into Salvager will be obsolete if they rewrite the code. On the other hand, not even Salvager can fix the stability issues we've been seeing on Goko. If the rewrite results in a more stable product, then it's worth it.
Agreed about stability, but the question is what features will be gone? Will we no longer have automatch? Will we no longer have a way to stack cards? Will we no longer have a log we can see at all times without to click a button to read it? Will we no longer have a prettified log that is easy to read and sorts everything by color? What about the VP counter? Will that be gone too? I'm not 100% sure I would trade stability for all of these features. Also, we now have chat on the side. We get a little ding when someone joins our games. We have a black list. We have a kingdom generator.
Hopefully, MF implements most to all of these features with the new rewrite. If not, then we might be in for another "Dark Ages," although not as bad as when Goko first came around and isotropic shut down.
This set of questions is probably worth posting to the MF forums.
Granting here that they already have my money, so it's not as though I can make a meaningful threat to leave... but we can definitely generate even more negative press.
Actually, I was thinking the same thing, and after posting here, I went straight to their forums and posted the same thing, except in bullet points.
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There's no point asking a supplier to rely on 3rd party software that they have no control over and is generally unknown to prospective customers. Making Fun need to make their own product into something good enough to bring in new customers.
Agreed, these ought to be things that don't need a third party.
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It's of course sad that all the work put into Salvager will be obsolete if they rewrite the code. On the other hand, not even Salvager can fix the stability issues we've been seeing on Goko. If the rewrite results in a more stable product, then it's worth it.
Salvager is indeed great, but this is no consideration for me. It's actually great if Salvager will be obsolete. I hope that Salvager (or something like it) won't be needed at all in the future. Making Fun would be wise to look at Salvager to see some of the features players like.
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Will we no longer have automatch? Will we no longer have a way to stack cards? Will we no longer have a log we can see at all times without to click a button to read it? Will we no longer have a prettified log that is easy to read and sorts everything by color? What about the VP counter? Will that be gone too? I'm not 100% sure I would trade stability for all of these features. Also, we now have chat on the side. We get a little ding when someone joins our games. We have a black list. We have a kingdom generator.
The intention last I heard is to replace the lobbies with something close to the automatching plan I outlined here somewhere a few months ago. The plan includes some kingdom generation and a black list.
I okay'd a VP counter; I don't know if/when on that or always-visible log/chat.
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It's of course sad that all the work put into Salvager will be obsolete if they rewrite the code. On the other hand, not even Salvager can fix the stability issues we've been seeing on Goko. If the rewrite results in a more stable product, then it's worth it.
Agreed about stability, but the question is what features will be gone? Will we no longer have automatch? Will we no longer have a way to stack cards? Will we no longer have a log we can see at all times without to click a button to read it? Will we no longer have a prettified log that is easy to read and sorts everything by color? What about the VP counter? Will that be gone too? I'm not 100% sure I would trade stability for all of these features. Also, we now have chat on the side. We get a little ding when someone joins our games. We have a black list. We have a kingdom generator.
Hopefully, MF implements most to all of these features with the new rewrite. If not, then we might be in for another "Dark Ages," although not as bad as when Goko first came around and isotropic shut down.
This set of questions is probably worth posting to the MF forums.
Granting here that they already have my money, so it's not as though I can make a meaningful threat to leave... but we can definitely generate even more negative press.
Actually, I was thinking the same thing, and after posting here, I went straight to their forums and posted the same thing, except in bullet points.
Here is the response I got on their forum: Unfortunately, you are correct that this will be incompatible with Salvager. We don't want any kind of downgraded experience, so we will look at adding these on a case-by-case basis.
So, this seems somewhat hopeful, but I'm a little worried about the whole case-by-case basis.