Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Puzzles and Challenges => Topic started by: Lekkit on December 07, 2011, 03:07:28 am
-
My friends and I've been thinking about how much a single Copper can be worth. As of now, we have a solution that lets you but (if you have enough buys) to buy all standard Victory Cards in a Colony game, save for one Estate.
[EDIT:] In a single turn. So no Outpost/Possession, unless they are the turns that make the Copper worth all the cash.
-
How much the Copper is worth or how much the value of your treasure changes when you add a Copper?
-
Basically I'm looking for it to give you as much money as possible.
-
And using Bridge/Highway would be cheating I suppose?
Otherwise it's 10 KC'd Coppersmiths for a single Copper to be worth $31.
-
... and you could power up 10 Banks by $1 each, but I don't know if that counts. It's not really the copper, but the Copper is responsible for giving you more money. You can also push HoPs for $1.
-
@Davio: Bridge/Highway let's you buy more stuff with your Copper, however the copper itself does not give you any more money.
And there's a way for the Copper to give you a lot more money.
@DStu: Again, the Copper's value doesn't increase by doing this.
-
@DStu: Again, the Copper's value doesn't increase by doing this.
Yeah, that's why I asked, but you're answer was not clear enough for me, so I think I just mention it and see what happens.
@Bridge/Highway: That's also true, but it would much easier to reach the goal to buy all Victories if they are cheaper. That would then be possible with say $31.
-
Sorry if I was unclear, but the goal is not to buy all Victory Cards. It's to get as high $ as possible in a single turn from one single Copper.
-
Sorry if I was unclear, but the goal is not to buy all Victory Cards. It's to get as high $ as possible in a single turn from one single Copper.
That's clear. But as you already got all but on Victory Card, I don't think that we will be satisfied until we get at least as many...
-
I suspect +$ from discard like Vault/SC also does not count?
-
I guess Vault/Secret Chamber would be legal, but would only count the discarded Copper.
-
In that case, does HT count? It's similar to the above apart from you can't discard only the Copper.
-
I think the highest number is achieved like that
gain the copper with IW: +1
pass it to opponent with masquerade
discard from his hand
TR + 10x KC gives 20 KC'ed actions
10xKC tribute +60
10xKC coppersmith +30
get it back with another masquerade
9x TR vault + 1x normal vault: +19
10x Secret Chamber +10
and finally play it +1
= 121
edit: replace venture (d'oh) with vault
-
I think the highest number is achieved like that
gain the copper with IW: +1
pass it to opponent with masquerade
discard from his hand
TR + 10x KC gives 20 KC'ed actions
10xKC tribute +60
10xKC coppersmith +30
get it back with another masquerade
9x TR venture + 1x normal venture: +19
10x Secret Chamber +10
and finally play it +1
= 121
This is looking good apart from the Throne Roomed Treasure cards.
In fact I'm not sure how Venture helps at all. The rest is good though.
-
In that case, does HT count? It's similar to the above apart from you can't discard only the Copper.
If you have only copper in your hand, you could discard only it to HT.
Golem + copper in hand into HT and Lab
-
In that case, does HT count? It's similar to the above apart from you can't discard only the Copper.
If you have only copper in your hand, you could discard only it to HT.
Golem + copper in hand into HT and Lab
Yep, I thought of that but the first option doesn't work because it leaves you with an empty hand and the second introduces too many additional kingdom piles to be efficient.
-
I guess Vault/Secret Chamber would be legal, but would only count the discarded Copper.
And what about Harvest? Does it count only the single Copper and 3 random different cards for $1 each time?
-
I can't figure out the spoiler bb code, but could you please explain that abbreviation you keep using?
-
[ spoiler ] stuff you want to be spoilered [/ spoiler ]
-
I think one can manage it this way:
11 Kingdom piles:
King's Court
Throne Room
Tribute
Coppersmith
Vault
Secret Chamber (as Bane to Young Witch)
Iron Works
Golem
Horse Trader
Scrying Pool
Black Market
This should raise my previous solution by 30 playing
Golem + Copper -> HT + SP
if we allow to give the copper to my opponent with an Ambassador(?). It might even work without, because we can get a lot of different card drawers from the BM.
As Davio mentioned Harvest could add one additional coin.
-
Horse traders shouldn't count, period. You don't have to discard anything at all to get money from Horse Traders. No wonder I couldn't figure the abbreviation out..
-
As I mentioned to DStu in a game we played, I forgot to say that my solution would enable me to have enough cash to buy almost all the Victory Cards in a 3-4 player game. With either Secret Chamber/Vault it's possible to get all of them (if you have the buys, which I'm not sure you actually can with my solution.
Keep the solutions coming, so far, there's still a lot of difference between mine and your's. Great to see what others are thinking.
-
I don't really understand what you mean by 'with a single copper', but well, e.g.
TR-KC chain playing 20 KC'd possessions (using outpost)
Masquerade them the single copper.
TR-KC chain on each possession turn, playing 10 KC'd coppersmiths.
Total value attained from that copper before the opponent sees a turn:
20*3*31 = 1860
It seems difficult to define what's counted here. If on discard cards is allowed, then what about trash with benefit? With develop, mint and remodel/expand, you can concievably turn that single copper into every (non-potion cost) card in the game in a single turn.
-
@Fangz: First of all, I'm not sure it's possible to do, since you would need a lot of drawing power to be able to pull the final chain off. I don't have the real data, but it seems really hard to be able to play all the necesary card.
And furthermore, What I mean is in a single turn played by one player, how much $ can you get from the Copper.
-
So I tried this out and kinda made it work. I missed some extra coins due to me playing badly, but in theory, I had the chance to make it work.
First of all, KC Coppersmiths so each Copper is worth $31. Make sure to have extra actions. Play Black Market and play the Copper. Now comes the tricky part. Feast a Mandarin to put your Copper on your deck. Draw it with some drawing card. Rinse and repeat. This way you can play the same Copper 11 times (with 10 BM and once in your Buy Phase). This makes it worth a total of $341. In a 4-player game with Colonies all basic Victory Cards sums up to $312. King's Court a Vault and you can add some more to the total value of the Copper.
-
I think that HT (and trade route, if that's your thing) shouldn't count because it's not required that you discard the copper to get the money.
Lekkit, I think you can use the Horn of Plenty/Venture/Mandarin trick to be able to use Black Markets to better effect.
Here's how it might go down.
Black Market: Copper, Horn of Plenty->Mandarin->Copper on top. Venture hits Copper. Horn of Plenty, Venture, etc... (Only use at most 9 Ventures so that you end with the treasures on deck. Then extricate the treasures, pass the Mandarins back with Ambassador, and repeat.
You'll run out of Ambassadors, unfortunately, so you'll only be able to return 2 * 10 * 3=60 Mandarins to the supply. So 60+10 gains of Mandarin total, then a final copper play. This gives a baseline of 2201, assuming you have enough draw to recover all those cards. It comes to around 240 draws since you need to draw Copper, Venture, HoP, and Mandarin once per cycle (should be doable with Counting House/Cellar or Crossroads, though you'd have to be "careful" which Copper is the special one :P)
Edit (Dec 12): 5 KCs were used on Coppersmith so only 2*5*3+2*5*2=50 returns can be made, so, $1891
Edit (Mar 2): For anyone interested, the best way to do this is to use 8 Coppersmiths in the beginning, then do the trick, then TR-KC Ambassador and Coppersmith, then do the trick, then use the last KC. This is the best balance.