Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Puzzles and Challenges => Topic started by: theory on December 06, 2011, 11:49:35 am
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E.g., playing Chapel to trash 0 cards, or King's Court and choosing no other action, but you're not limited to just those two examples. Let's get a comprehensive list going. This is my attempt, but perhaps there are more.
Generally these assume that you have Actions to spare. Ranked in approximate decreasing order of likelihood.
1) Lowering the cost of Peddler
2) Increasing the Horn of Plenty gain
3) Activating Conspirator chains
4) Activating Shanty Town
5) Eliminating duplicity from hand for Menagerie
6) Being able to draw more from Watchtower/Library/Jack
7) Put it in play so your Scheme can pick it back up.
8) If you're going to trigger a reshuffle later (e.g., Minion / Venture) and you're trying to manipulate the draw deck
9) With King's Court and Hunting Party ... maybe you want to waste one but not skip over the other one? I have no idea where I'm going with this.
10) Emptying your hand so:
a) You can set aside Island by itself, instead of with your Action
b) You can play Salvager / Bishop / Trade Route / Apprentice* for their alternative benefit without trashing your card
c) You can play Masquerade and pass 0 cards, assuming you have no cards left to draw
d) You can play Mandarin without putting the card back on your deck
*The alternative benefit of Apprentice being ... this list
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Well, I can add 10e: with an empty deck, to avoid having to put the action on your deck with courtyard
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You can add Horse Traders to 10b.
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You can add Horse Traders to 10b.
I thought that at first, but that refers to trashing, not discarding. There's little difference between playing a card that does nothing and discarding it. Unless you are also adding on one of the other reasons already listed, like wanting an empty deck for Masquerade.
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Steward, Trading Post, and Farmland are relevant. So are Expand, Remodel, Develop, Transmute, Upgrade for the same reasons as Apprentice
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If you have an action you can't play this turn, and you're playing a Courtyard, wouldn't you WANT to save it for next turn? Unless, I suppose, you're planning to do more drawing afterward. But then wouldn't you want to save the action in case you drew whatever it is you needed? I don't see it.
How about this?
Because you're on Iso and you want your opponent to know you just drew all 3 KCs together with no other actions. (Maybe you're having a 'my shuffle luck is worse than your shuffle luck' competition in the chat box.)
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Steward, Trading Post, and Farmland are relevant. So are Expand, Remodel, Develop, Transmute, Upgrade for the same reasons as Apprentice
I disagree about Farmland, or perhaps I misunderstand your post; my thinking is you absolutely want something in hand for Farmland to improve, otherwise you're spending $6 on something worse than a Duchy.
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Unless the Duchies are out, then it makes sense. A bit of a stretch perhaps, but I guess that's why it works for the list!
I don't really disagree any more, with the caveat that Duchies are exhausted :p
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Steward, Trading Post, and Farmland are relevant. So are Expand, Remodel, Develop, Transmute, Upgrade for the same reasons as Apprentice
I disagree about Farmland, or perhaps I misunderstand your post; my thinking is you absolutely want something in hand for Farmland to improve, otherwise you're spending $6 on something worse than a Duchy.
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Unless the Duchies are out, then it makes sense. A bit of a stretch perhaps, but I guess that's why it works for the list!
I don't really disagree any more, with the caveat that Duchies are exhausted :p
Or you need to boost your Fairgrounds I guess? (Aside: I keep seeing Fairgrounds on Isotropic and thinking it's Farmland, or vice versa.)
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A minion/golem deck might see an ineffective action played rather than have it discarded by the minion and drawn by the golem.
You've played throne/throne/witch and drawn ambassador, chapel, platinum, platinum, preferring to use the chapel.
Can you play multiple outposts just to get them out of your deck for your outpost turn?
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E.g., playing Chapel to trash 0 cards, or King's Court and choosing no other action, but you're not limited to just those two examples. Let's get a comprehensive list going. This is my attempt, but perhaps there are more.
I'm trying to think of the cards that allow you to do this and am getting stuck:
- Smugglers
- Shantytown
- Chapel/Cellar/Secret Chamber (for 0 cards)
- Throne room/KC
- Card drawing with nothing in your deck
- Library/Watchtower/JoaT (when you have a big hand)
- Coppersmith (with no coppers)
I know there are more.
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Shanty Town does give you a benefit.
Spice Merchant (and many others) has "You may ... if you do" text on it.
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JoaT also gives you a benefit unless the Silver pile is empty, you have no cards in deck OR discard AND you have no non-treasure cards in hand that you want to trash. Funnily enough, the only thing you might think that you need but you actually DON'T need, is a "big hand". You're already not going to draw cards because you require the deck and discard to be empty to get no benefit from the deck inspection.
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Moneylender.
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I'm trying to think of the cards that allow you to do this and am getting stuck
The cards that can be played for no benefit include card gainers with none of that card in the supply (and that can include forging no cards for unavailable copper and curse), cards like tribute that work on the opponent's draw deck when the opponent has no draw deck or discard pile, cards that only provide a benefit from other cards in hand but there are no cards in hand.
There is also a potential sub-category where you play a card to no effect since later in the turn it would be played for an effect you don't want. An example might be playing a moneylender with no copper in hand, so that you don't play it later and trash your last copper from a fairgrounds deck. I suspect this is still falls under the general question of "why play the moneylender at all?".
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There is also a potential sub-category where you play a card to no effect since later in the turn it would be played for an effect you don't want. An example might be playing a moneylender with no copper in hand, so that you don't play it later and trash your last copper from a fairgrounds deck. I suspect this is still falls under the general question of "why play the moneylender at all?".
Because your Golem drew Smithy and Moneylender and you know (or think) the Smithy will draw a Copper. Alterntively, because you have TR-TR- in play and Smithy and Moneylender in hand.
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Shanty Town does give you a benefit.
So you are looking for cards that can functionally read "Play this action card. Do nothing." (like chapel for nothing) not just "Play this action card. Do nothing useful" (like playing a second tournament after your opponent has already revealed a province).
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Shanty Town does give you a benefit.
Spice Merchant (and many others) has "You may ... if you do" text on it.
I would argue that if you have Shanty Town and exactly 1 other non-drawing action in your hand, and no Diadem, then playing the Shanty Town is equivalent of playing Chapel and trashing nothing. Same goes for Nobels, if you have it in hand with 1 non-drawing action and you use it for +2 actions.
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An answer to the original question: When it's a boneheaded play.
An answer to the latest question:
I played Harvest, when my entire deck was in my hand…
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You could play a couple of cards that interact with other player's decks which doesn't work if they only have 5 cards (due to Chapel or something):
- Tribute
- Thief
- Saboteur
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You could play a couple of cards that interact with other player's decks which doesn't work if they only have 5 cards (due to Chapel or something):
- Tribute
- Thief
- Saboteur
Sea Hag when Curses are gone and your opponent has no cards in his deck. Masquerade when your deck is empty, it is your last card in hand, and your opponent has no cards in hand. I can't think of any others like that though...
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A couple of other cases:
11. To clear the hand in case of mandatory golem actions. E.g. I have nobles, golem & a curse in hand and a remake in the deck. I might get two useless actions out of nobles in order to be safe from the mandatory trash.
12. Mostly contrived, but I could see playing something like vault (with nothing left to draw or wish to discard) in order to induce your opponent to discard garbage so you have better odds of getting a better card from masquerade.
13. Likewise, I could in theory see playing a dead council room or other opponent aiding card (vault, dead hags with horse traders in play, etc.) to help the next player buy the last province instead of the guy after him to seal my victory. E.g. I have 4 provinces & a duchy, next player has 3 provinces, and last guy has 3 provinces & 2 duchies, then I'll play a dead council room hoping that the next player hits 8 coin and ends the game.
14. I could see playing a dead council room to muck with an opponent's reshuffles. E.g. I have a hand of council room, gold, gold, minion, nothing else playable (discard or deck), and + coin from earlier fishing villages. My opponent meanwhile has a lot of good cards in hand with all his green in the discard, and nothing in the draw deck. I might drop the council room to trigger his reshuffle and then minion him to make his power cards miss the shuffle.
15. Very contrived, I could see playing governor even when golds are exhausted in order to either slow down hot decks with silver or to provide treasure feed for pirate ships (maybe the opponents are running really small TR/Remodel decks?).