Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Dominion Videos and Streams => Topic started by: SCSN on May 20, 2014, 04:51:01 am
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I recently started streaming at http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno. Because I've several cool things coming up I decided to make this thread so that everything is neatly together in one place.
UPCOMING BROADCASTS
Next Sunday, League match vs. Mr. Anderson
Regular Streams
Stream I (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4878000)
Stream II (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877991)
Stream III (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877970)
Stream IV (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877863)
Stream V (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877807)
Lessons
Jerni has approached me asking if I'm willing to give him some Dominion lessons. I agreed and we both thought it would be cool to stream the lessons, so that others can benefit as well.
Lesson 1 (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877942)
Lesson 2 (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877925)
Lesson 3 (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877895)
Lesson 4 (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/5059850)
Lesson 5 (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/5178405)
Dominion League
Season 1 - Division A
S01E01 vs. Stef - Part 1 (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877965)
S01E01 vs. Stef - Part 2 (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877957)
S01E02 vs. Mic Qsenoch (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877950)
S01E03 vs. Perry Green (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877936)
S01E04 vs. HvBoedefeld (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877908)
S01E05 vs. AI (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877898)
Season 2 - Division A
S02E01 vs. Mic Qsenoch (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877884)
S02E02 vs. Rabid (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877880)
S02E03 vs. Monsieur X (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877872)
S02E04 vs. Stef (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877848)
Season 3 - Division B
S03E01 vs. Eevee (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/5046380)
S03E02 vs. silverspawn (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/5178391)
S03E03 vs. Qvist (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/5178418)
Special Streams
Streams that don't fit any of the above categories.
Gokodom III final (http://www.twitch.tv/ragingduckd/b/530054953) between AI and Jog with commentary from Mic Qsenoch and me.
Two engine vs. Tunnel games (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877987) against c4master, a match resulting from this thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10887).
Ambassador vs. Big Money (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/c/4877918)
Feedback
I would really appreciate any and all comments on whatever stream I make. Being new to this I expect there to be a large amount of room for improvement, most of which will go to waste if imperfections aren't pointed out to me.
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cool stuff, looking forward to it.
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For the lessons, I think it can be worth it to specify a range of Isotropish levels they are recommended for. For instance, I may look at them, but if I see the first lessons and they are too simple (which seems likely, given that I am currently 30 levels ahead of the person the lessons are directed to) I would probably stop. If next to each video it reads "recommended for levels XX to YY", I know to just watch videos that may be worth it for me. Maybe just recording Jerni's level a week after the lesson or something would be a good enough estimation (and +- 5 or something to get a range).
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For the lessons, I think it can be worth it to specify a range of Isotropish levels they are recommended for. For instance, I may look at them, but if I see the first lessons and they are too simple (which seems likely, given that I am currently 30 levels ahead of the person the lessons are directed to) I would probably stop. If next to each video it reads "recommended for levels XX to YY", I know to just watch videos that may be worth it for me. Maybe just recording Jerni's level a week after the lesson or something would be a good enough estimation (and +- 5 or something to get a range).
I'd probably watch even the ones meant for lower levels, because even if it's simple, SCSN might have something to say about it that I wouldn't have even thought of.
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The immediate goal of each lesson will be to get Jerni to play the kingdom(s) we'll study as well as I'd play them myself. If you can't learn anything from this, it either means that you're already as good as or even better than me, or that my teaching skills suck. In case of the former: I ensure you that I'll do whatever I can to catch up with you and pass you by. In case of the latter: please point out how they might be improved, and I'll work on that.
I'll particularly focus on somewhat difficult kingdoms that I've seen Jerni significantly misplay. If I think they are too difficult to start out with right away, I'll first treat a slightly simpler version to convey the basic idea before moving on to the more convoluted one. There won't be any trivial kingdoms like silly BM-Witch mirrors, as I'll be handpicking the kingdoms to maximally challenge him.
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This sounds wonderful. I would be willing to do my homework also :) Are you going to post the kingdoms in advance maybe?
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I love the lessons idea and I'd tune in every time if possible. I just have to figure out when the hell 19:00 UTC-4 is...
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Wednesday 22-05 @ 01:00 UTC+2 (mine).
Which year is that? Because I'm pretty sure the 22-05 this year isn't a Wednesday.
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I'm sorry, it was meant to be next week but I somehow copied the wrong dates, will correct it now.
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So, you're willing to play at 1:00am on your time, SCSN? That's very generous of you.
I think it's a great idea. Who doesn't secretly wish they had a mentor? That said, I'll be busy during that time.
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I'd like to play you some time, SCSN, but my scheduling is very ad-hoc.
I like to think that I can be a fair match for any (top) player, but my non consistent playing - I play very few games compared to most players on top of the leaderboard and my skills can be quite rusty at times - has always been a limiting factor.
But I'm pretty sure we can learn from each other. :)
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So, you're willing to play at 1:00am on your time, SCSN? That's very generous of you.
I think it's a great idea. Who doesn't secretly wish they had a mentor? That said, I'll be busy during that time.
I have a pretty nocturnal rhythm so the time isn't a big deal to me :) I'll record the stream so people who miss it can watch later if they want.
I'd like to play you some time, SCSN, but my scheduling is very ad-hoc.
I like to think that I can be a fair match for any (top) player, but my non consistent playing - I play very few games compared to most players on top of the leaderboard and my skills can be quite rusty at times - has always been a limiting factor.
But I'm pretty sure we can learn from each other. :)
Sure, I'd be happy to play you when you're free. You beat me at the nationals so I won't be underestimating you!
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And I even beat you with an engine! TR-IW-Great Hall-Wharf if I remember correctly. :D
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I can't thank SCSN enough for taking the time to do this - I enjoyed it and learned a lot, and I hope everyone else did, too (and that it wasn't too basic). If any of you happen to run into me in a game sometime, please say hi!
jerni
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I enjoyed the first lesson immensely and learned a lot of basic stuff (have a goal for your deck, get only the cards that you need to have...), since I mostly do analyse the deck correctly, but dont know how to build it to that point that it greens fast and efficient. Thank you, SCSN and jerni.
P.S. Very good teaching, SCSN. If ever jerni has no time I would be pleased to fill in :)
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I enjoyed the first lesson immensely and learned a lot of basic stuff (have a goal for your deck, get only the cards that you need to have...), since I mostly do analyse the deck correctly, but dont know how to build it to that point that it greens fast and efficient. Thank you, SCSN and jerni.
P.S. Very good teaching, SCSN. If ever jerni has no time I would be pleased to fill in :)
The same is true for me. Very well done. :)
I have a question left about this wishing well stuff. You told jerni to always play the wells first if you have another cantrip in your hand. I feel like this rule should be broken at least sometimes when you reach the end of your shuffle and you do not want to trigger a shuffle. Or maybe you can leave just two cards on your draw pile before the ww and thus you should be able to know which one is the bottom card. Am I wrong or did you not mention these cases in order to not be too confusing?
edit: Oh, and why didn't you play this rats game? I really feel like I need to learn about that card.
edit2: never mind. I've just seen the other thread where this wishing thing is being discussed. I would alos prefer to play them "next-to-last", e.g. before my last cantrip or towards the end of a shuffle.
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edit: Oh, and why didn't you play this rats game? I really feel like I need to learn about that card.
What game are you referring to? FWIW, a game with Rats in it is rarely a "Rats game". The most important thing one can learn about the card is that you should only very rarely buy it. Strong trash for benefit like Salvager, Butcher and Forge or Watchtower and Vineyards cover the vast majority of the exceptions.
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edit: Oh, and why didn't you play this rats game? I really feel like I need to learn about that card.
What game are you referring to? FWIW, a game with Rats in it is rarely a "Rats game". The most important thing one can learn about the card is that you should only very rarely buy it. Strong trash for benefit like Salvager, Butcher and Forge or Watchtower and Vineyards cover the vast majority of the exceptions.
The Remodel family in general (besides Butcher and Forge) is usually nice with Rats, especially in an engine with expensive components. Also Bishop, Forager (A Forager/Rats opening seems better to trash down quickly than double Forager) and Scrying Pool. Rats is a pretty extreme card, in the sense that when you want it, you usually really want it.
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Forager (A Forager/Rats opening seems better to trash down quickly than double Forager)
No. Remember that Rats doesn't actually trim your deck, it just replaces whatever card you trash with a Rats. So if you have no use for Rats and only plan to trash them later with Forager, you shouldn't get them in the first place because they actually hurt: until they're trashed, Coppers are more useful than Rats, and getting a Rats prevents you from getting a card that's actually good, like another Forager or maybe even a Silver.
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"The only way to increase hand size on this board is with Wishing Well"
he says on a board with both Adventurer AND Scout.
jeez who is this noob <3
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Only goes to show that even the best sill have a lot to learn ;)
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edit: Oh, and why didn't you play this rats game? I really feel like I need to learn about that card.
What game are you referring to? FWIW, a game with Rats in it is rarely a "Rats game". The most important thing one can learn about the card is that you should only very rarely buy it. Strong trash for benefit like Salvager, Butcher and Forge or Watchtower and Vineyards cover the vast majority of the exceptions.
Remake isn't quite in the "Remodel family", but if you want a lot of 5s, Remake can really enable Rats. I played a fun game with Rats, Remake, and Duke in gokodom; there was even Baker, to enable the Rats/Remake opening!
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140405/log.516d31dbe4b082c74d7b3391.1396722376184.txt
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Remake isn't quite in the "Remodel family", but if you want a lot of 5s, Remake can really enable Rats. I played a fun game with Rats, Remake, and Duke in gokodom; there was even Baker, to enable the Rats/Remake opening!
I definitely consider Remake a Remodel variant. BTW, this is of the top of my head, but maybe you want to open double Rats in that scenario. You really want to turn all your starting cards into Rats and then into Duchy/Duke. Each play of Rats turns a single card into a Rats. Each play of Remake turns two Rats into Duchies/Dukes.
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You are screwed if you fail to hit $4 for a Remake.
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You are screwed if you fail to hit $4 for a Remake.
Well, that's true, but I think the other point is you want multiple Remakes, which means you need some Silvers at some point. You want to be Remaking your Estates into Silver on the first shuffle, and you'll have gained a second Rats by then. If you open double-Rats, then even if you do manage a Remake you'll have too many Rats by the next shuffle: one Remake for four Rats means your deck will just get rattier and rattier, and you'll never be able to buy or gain a second Remake.
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edit: Oh, and why didn't you play this rats game? I really feel like I need to learn about that card.
What game are you referring to? FWIW, a game with Rats in it is rarely a "Rats game". The most important thing one can learn about the card is that you should only very rarely buy it. Strong trash for benefit like Salvager, Butcher and Forge or Watchtower and Vineyards cover the vast majority of the exceptions.
Remake isn't quite in the "Remodel family", but if you want a lot of 5s, Remake can really enable Rats. I played a fun game with Rats, Remake, and Duke in gokodom; there was even Baker, to enable the Rats/Remake opening!
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140405/log.516d31dbe4b082c74d7b3391.1396722376184.txt
Why did you remake Dukes into Harems? This seems really weird to me. Other than that, nice game. :D
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http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140405/log.516d31dbe4b082c74d7b3391.1396722376184.txt
Why did you remake Dukes into Harems? This seems really weird to me. Other than that, nice game. :D
At that point I had lost on any reasonable plan. I figured maybe I could get lucky and buy some Provinces with the money from Harem, while only losing 1VP per Harem.
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I enjoyed your stream yesterday very much, SCSN. Jerni is such a good pupil and your explanations are really fresh, insightful and full of strategic advice. I very much enjoy your combo and that you tell Jerni what he shouldnt do and what was just done without a plan. So thank you for sharing this with us.
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I'm glad you liked the lesson and that others than Jerni are getting something out of it as well :)
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By the way, I have some really misbehaving brothers that often go for green instead of what I watch the good players do, building engines and emptying piles. I would really like to know how to react to such a kind of thing.
I mean, I just watched the embassador game from the stream and I played it against the "Banker bot" and he won 46 to 35. So: when and how do you best switch to greening with the kind of deck you had (consisting merely of bazaars, bridges and 2 ambassadors) and the other player going for money? I am a little lost.
Deck: trade route, bridge, bazaar, market, expand, secret chamber, ambassador, fortune teller, scheme, swindler
at 1:45:00
http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/b/537309945
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http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/b/537457194
Goko decided to save the log (http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140611/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1402491484648.txt) as well, so that was a surprising bonus :)
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Good lord, that is a more detailed reply than I expected. Thank you so much. So it is mostly about speed and focus, buying cantrips. My problem was, that this kind of deck greens badly.
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In Jerni's Lesson 2, in the Border Village/Wharf game, I don't think that getting too many terminals is as much of a problem as you make it sound like. If you have ten Border Villages and ten Wharves, you can play ten Border Villages every turn, but only five Wharves, leaving you with plenty of extra actions.
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If you have 10 BVs and 10 Wharves then you're right, but the argument doesn't scale. If you're far removed from drawing your deck anyway (as Jerni was for the entire game), reliability is very important. You want your average turn to be at least decent. Adding more terminals (Marauder) that don't draw and produce even other cards (Spoils) that don't draw either, is really disastrous. In theory you might have enough Villages to do whatever you want, but in practice your engine ends up really sputtering, as could be seen in the video.
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If you have 10 BVs and 10 Wharves then you're right, but the argument doesn't scale. If you're far removed from drawing your deck anyway (as Jerni was for the entire game), reliability is very important. You want your average turn to be at least decent. Adding more terminals (Marauder) that don't draw and produce even other cards (Spoils) that don't draw either, is really disastrous. In theory you might have enough Villages to do whatever you want, but in practice your engine ends up really sputtering, as could be seen in the video.
In that specific situation, I definitely agree that buying the extra terminal was a mistake, especially since it was a Marauder. But generally, in games like that, you should be more concerned with getting as many Wharves as possible than caring about terminal collision, because Wharf is in your hand less often than most terminals, which allows you to get slightly more terminals than normally, given that those terminals are actually useful for you.
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For sure, I never said he shouldn't be getting as many Wharves as possible.
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Going live (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno)
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Wanna play?
My current rating probably doesn't meet your criteria, but I don't get many chances otherwise. :)
Oh, you're playing a series.
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On your third lesson, around 1:50-2:00 you taught jerny to upgrade a Copper and buy a Haggler. there was only one Menagerie left and jerny had 2 Estates in his hand. I would have upgraded one Estate into the last Menagerie and still bought the Haggler. This would have given him a 6:4 split on Menageries, which is, in my opinion, better than thinning down one of his last 4 Coppers. Is that correct?
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I think SCSN is correct here.
Maybe it's better to have 5 Menageries drawing on average 2 cards than 6 Menageries drawing on average 1.5 cards? Mathematically this is obvious, but I pulled the numbers out of thin air, so I don't know for sure.
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I think SCSN is correct here.
Maybe it's better to have 5 Menageries drawing on average 2 cards than 6 Menageries drawing on average 1.5 cards? Mathematically this is obvious, but I pulled the numbers out of thin air, so I don't know for sure.
It's not so much about your own deck, but rather about denying your opponent his key cards. You can just thin down th Coppers on your upcoming turn(s), but you cannot deny him the Menagerie any more.
For your own deck (~20 cards): If you have 6 Menageries, but you need only 4 activated to draw your deck, you're likely to succeed. If you start with three Menageries in your hand, you can affort to play one of them as a cantrip, if you have to. Starting with exactly two Menageries in your hand is actually very strong. But if you only have 4 in your whole deck and need all 4 to draw your deck, you're likely to not start with any and thus have a stall turn.
So I think having 6 Menageries is not a bad thing and denying one is very strong.
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registrated to say thanks for the lessons and the other cool stuff!
i think your streams are great and i hope we get more :)
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registrated to say thanks for the lessons and the other cool stuff!
i think your streams are great and i hope we get more :)
Thanks! There will be more, not too sure yet when, but likely soon.
On your third lesson, around 1:50-2:00 you taught jerny to upgrade a Copper and buy a Haggler. there was only one Menagerie left and jerny had 2 Estates in his hand. I would have upgraded one Estate into the last Menagerie and still bought the Haggler. This would have given him a 6:4 split on Menageries, which is, in my opinion, better than thinning down one of his last 4 Coppers. Is that correct?
You're probably right.
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registrated to say thanks for the lessons and the other cool stuff!
i think your streams are great and i hope we get more :)
Thanks! There will be more, not too sure yet when, but likely soon.
As promised: I'll be streaming my league match against Rabid tonight at 19:00 UTC+2
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Going live (http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno)
Grabbing popcorn!
I really hate it when sites use Facebook as the only SSO option though, not every one of the 7 billion people on earth have Facebook.
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registrated to say thanks for the lessons and the other cool stuff!
i think your streams are great and i hope we get more :)
Thanks! There will be more, not too sure yet when, but likely soon.
As promised: I'll be streaming my league match against Rabid tonight at 19:00 UTC+2
Thanks! Tough matches.
Juggling with menageries is great. Nice to see tricks like gaining cards, then drawing and playing them on the same turn :)
I have to learn a lot. I would think in a board with forager, moneylender, loan, ironmonger, great hall, conspirator you can ignore ambassador, or just buy a single.
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SCSN, just finally started watching your stream archive yesterday (twitch doesn't work on my iPhone 4 for some reason). Kudos to you and thanks for putting this up here. Regarding your lessons with jerni, these are amazing and I took notes. I have a passion for teaching and rant constantly about how the quality of training is going downhill in my profession. Through that lens, your teaching technique with jerni is superb. Well done!
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Thanks for the kind words. I think the main factor is that it's something I enjoy doing rather than see it as a chore I'm happy to half-ass.
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Dear SCSN,
I immensely enjoyed your last teaching video. All the tactics sounds so clear, when you explain them to jerni. That is wonderful. However I found that you were overloaded on some games watching both your deck and jernis. Maybe it is better to play big money yourself and focus on a win for jerni, telling him the best strategical play. How ever you are going to continue this I am sure it will be wonderful.
Greetings,
SD
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Thanks, that's quite a neat solution to a problem I've been struggling with a bit. Especially that Upgrade/Fortress game was a horrible trainwreck. It won't always be the way to go because sometimes you want to focus on the specific dynamics of a mirror, but I'll certainly try it out as a default.
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Mic and I are going live in (hopefully) a few minutes for this thing where he's always P1 and I can see his hand.
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Thanks for the videos, I found them to be very helpful.
I would love to see you play a couple games against bots, I know it's probably completely boring for you but I play almost exclusively against bots and it would be fun to see how you crush them :-)
Thanks again for the amazing videos and putting your time into this!
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Thanks for the videos, I found them to be very helpful.
I would love to see you play a couple games against bots, I know it's probably completely boring for you but I play almost exclusively against bots and it would be fun to see how you crush them :-)
Thanks again for the amazing videos and putting your time into this!
Thank you for the kind words, I appreciate them!
As for playing games against bots, I'm afraid I have to disappoint you: it's something I simply don't enjoy. I'd much rather just play you some time, if you're interested :)
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Thanks for the videos, I found them to be very helpful.
I would love to see you play a couple games against bots, I know it's probably completely boring for you but I play almost exclusively against bots and it would be fun to see how you crush them :-)
Thanks again for the amazing videos and putting your time into this!
Thank you for the kind words, I appreciate them!
As for playing games against bots, I'm afraid I have to disappoint you: it's something I simply don't enjoy. I'd much rather just play you some time, if you're interested :)
That would be fantastic! I will PM :-)
Thanks again!
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Starting another jerni lesson 50 minutes from now.
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Dear SCSN,
the game 4 against Fergesser from your Dom-league war great (crossroads Harem engine) at 29:15.
http://www.twitch.tv/shecantsayno/b/607920280
I enjoyed to watch the stream a lot. Thanks.
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Thanks for the videos, I found them to be very helpful.
I would love to see you play a couple games against bots, I know it's probably completely boring for you but I play almost exclusively against bots and it would be fun to see how you crush them :-)
Thanks again for the amazing videos and putting your time into this!
Thank you for the kind words, I appreciate them!
As for playing games against bots, I'm afraid I have to disappoint you: it's something I simply don't enjoy. I'd much rather just play you some time, if you're interested :)
That would be fantastic! I will PM :-)
Thanks again!
Starting this within 10 minutes from now.
Nope, vetoed by Goko.
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4th Lesson with Jerney
I really enjoy your lessons even though I can very often guess what you're about to say. It's a very good exercise to predict your advise. :D
However, I disagree with you on the first game of lessen 4, that's Double Tactician vs. Alchemist Stack.
Since there is no other draw on the board, double Tac is limited to generate at most 8 Coin Tokens per turn (if you don't buy any green cards and get 8 Candlestick Makers. Alchemist, on the other side can easily generate 12-14 Coins per turn. I think, you misplayed that.
I believe, a start with Candlestick maker / Moneylender would be better because you need to erase the Coppers. Next would be Potion and then get Alchemists, if possible, and maybe Ironmongers and up to 4 Golds ( with the extra buys). You might want a second Candlestick Maker, but probably not a third one. I don't think, there is place for a Pawn before your first Ironmonger and even afterwards it's still questionable since you want Islands to erase your Estates. Your goal should be to get to a deck like this:
Province - Island - 2 CandleStick Makers - Moneylender - 4 Golds - 6 Alchemistes - any number of Ironmongers
Then you can easily buy Province + Island each turn, play it and keep clean. You can then score at least 10 points per turn. I'm not good enough to actually estimate whether that is quick enough to win against double Tactician (because it takes probably some more turns to set up), but the payload is just way higher and it can easily be increased to double Province in the end, since you're saving tokens due to Ironmongers generating a few Coins maybe.