Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Rules Questions => Topic started by: TheMirrorMan on April 20, 2014, 07:01:06 am
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Don't know if this has been answered in the secret histories ... Or any other thread. But here goes.
Does anybody understand why we only get a coin token in the beginning with Baker on the board ? But not with Butcher, candlestick maker or any other Guilds card etc. ...
Why would Baker be so special ?
Also, according to dominion online, if Baker is in the black market deck, we get an extra coin token. I'm wondering if this is correct.
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Also, according to dominion online, if Baker is in the black market deck, we get an extra coin token. I'm wondering if this is correct.
Yes you do, it's in the Setup rules on Baker card, so you do it.
It's the same as with many other cards with setup rules on the card, if they are in Black Market deck i.e.:
Young Witch- Add Bane Card
Tournament- Add Prizes
Pirate Ship/Island/Native Village\Trade Route\ any VP token giver (Bishop, Goons, Monument)- Get the mats out
Looters (e.g Marauder/ Death Cart)- Add Ruins Deck
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Why would Baker be so special ?
For the same reason why Coppersmith is the only card that increases Copper's value by $1 and King's Court is the only card that plays another Action card three times, I assume.
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I know, but those are effects of the cards themselves. What is the deal if you omit "Each player starts with a coin token" on the Baker card ?
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There's not a "deal" per se; you could do that if you wanted to. It's just something to make the game play differently that game. If every guilds card did that, then Baker would be less unique.
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Baker is the least interesting of the three coin token cards. If you're looking for somewhere to hang an extra effect it's the natural place to start.
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Baker is the least interesting of the three coin token cards. If you're looking for somewhere to hang an extra effect it's the natural place to start.
Baker isn't really less interesting than Candlesticker Maker.
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Don't know if this has been answered in the secret histories ... Or any other thread. But here goes.
Does anybody understand why we only get a coin token in the beginning with Baker on the board ? But not with Butcher, candlestick maker or any other Guilds card etc. ...
Why would Baker be so special ?
Also, according to dominion online, if Baker is in the black market deck, we get an extra coin token. I'm wondering if this is correct.
I wanted a card that made players start with a coin token. The idea wasn't that all games with coin tokens would have you start with one, the idea was that some of them would. That kind of variety is like a premise of the game.
The card wanted to be a simple one that used coin tokens - simple to fit the text, involving coin tokens so that it felt less tacked on. Butcher had too much text, and Plaza did too at the time (it let you pay a coin token to draw a card). Merchant Guild already had a dividing line. It could have been Candlestick Maker instead. It's Baker.
If Baker is in the Black Market deck, players start with a coin token. That's stupid but consistent. There may be setup rules you absolutely have to do for a card in the Black Market deck; so, you just always do the setup rules.
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For it being in the black market, it just says "in games using this". You're using it when it's in the black market.
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Baker is the least interesting of the three coin token cards. If you're looking for somewhere to hang an extra effect it's the natural place to start.
Baker isn't really less interesting than Candlesticker Maker.
Baker does nothing but gives you a coin token. At least Candlestick Maker replaces one of the cards in your hand with a +buy in addition to that.
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For it being in the black market, it just says "in games using this". You're using it when it's in the black market.
It doesn't actually say "in games using this"; it just says "setup:". (It could have said "if Baker is in the supply…" or something, I suppose.)
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For it being in the black market, it just says "in games using this". You're using it when it's in the black market.
It doesn't actually say "in games using this"; it just says "setup:". (It could have said "if Baker is in the supply…" or something, I suppose.)
I hate it when I recall a card from memory and get it wrong...
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Baker does nothing but gives you a coin token. At least Candlestick Maker replaces one of the cards in your hand with a +buy in addition to that.
CSM also costs $2, which is neat in and of itself.
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Baker does nothing but gives you a coin token. At least Candlestick Maker replaces one of the cards in your hand with a +buy in addition to that.
CSM also costs $2, which is neat in and of itself.
The starting coin token ensures that, apart from obscure edge cases, you will always be able to open with a $5 and never be stuck opening with a $2. For that reason, it is more interesting for the card to cost $5 versus costing $2.
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Baker does nothing but gives you a coin token. At least Candlestick Maker replaces one of the cards in your hand with a +buy in addition to that.
CSM also costs $2, which is neat in and of itself.
The starting coin token ensures that, apart from obscure edge cases, you will always be able to open with a $5 and never be stuck opening with a $2. For that reason, it is more interesting for the card to cost $5 versus costing $2.
I don't think there are any edge cases to that one, are there? Ok, 11 player game, and players 1-10 opened Baker, so there's no $5s left. But in a game with 6 or less players, I don't believe that it is possible to be unable to open Baker if you wish, even with strange Noble Brigand shenanigans.
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Baker does nothing but gives you a coin token. At least Candlestick Maker replaces one of the cards in your hand with a +buy in addition to that.
CSM also costs $2, which is neat in and of itself.
The starting coin token ensures that, apart from obscure edge cases, you will always be able to open with a $5 and never be stuck opening with a $2. For that reason, it is more interesting for the card to cost $5 versus costing $2.
I don't think there are any edge cases to that one, are there? Ok, 11 player game, and players 1-10 opened Baker, so there's no $5s left. But in a game with 6 or less players, I don't believe that it is possible to be unable to open Baker if you wish, even with strange Noble Brigand shenanigans.
If I open with a $2 hand as second player, and my opponent opens with Noble Brigand revealing two Coppers, then I could end up with a $3 hand again during turn 2. So in neither of my first two hands was I able to buy a $5.
But perhaps more importantly, first player buying Noble Brigand already causes you to shuffle at the end of turn 1, so you don't have the traditional demarcation that distinguishs your opening from the game proper.
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The starting coin token ensures that, apart from obscure edge cases, you will always be able to open with a $5 and never be stuck opening with a $2. For that reason, it is more interesting for the card to cost $5 versus costing $2.
This is not what I meant at all when I said that CSM is interesting because it costs $2.
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Cheap, easy to spam sources of +Buy are best sources of +Buy! For some definition of best.
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Cheap, easy to spam sources of +Buy are best sources of +Buy! For some definition of best.
In Soviet Dominion, CSM spams you!