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Archive => 2016 DominionStrategy Championships => Archive => 2011 => Topic started by: theory on November 20, 2011, 09:29:48 am

Title: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: theory on November 20, 2011, 09:29:48 am: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules

1. Starting today, we will accept Kingdom submissions. You may submit any number of Kingdoms for consideration. Submissions close the day before the Grand Final is scheduled.

2. Kingdom is defined as a set of 10 Dominion cards to be used in a game of the Grand Final. If your setup includes Young Witch, please also include a Bane card. If your setup includes Black Market, the Black Market deck will be randomly generated. Please also specify whether Colonies and Platinum are included. The Kingdom is under no other constraint (i.e., you may have Colonies and Platinums in the game even without any Prosperity cards, and you may have just a single Alchemy card).

3. Kingdoms may include any published Dominion card (including promotional cards). Submissions with fan-made cards will automatically be rejected.

4. Kingdoms should be submitted by <a href="mailto:dominionstrategy@gmail.com">email</a> or <a href="http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=1">Private Message to theory</a> on the DominionStrategy Forum.

5. We will select at least seven Kingdoms to be used for the Grand Final (more than seven in case the match requires more than seven games). We will <b>not</b> announce the Kingdoms until the final begins.

6. After the final, voters will be able to vote for their favorite of the seven (or more) Kingdoms. That poll will close one week from the end of the Grand Final; at that point, whoever submitted the winning Kingdom will also receive a copy of <b>Dominion: Hinterlands</b>.

7. You may submit Kingdoms with any intent, and the voters can select whichever Kingdom they like for any reason. That being said, in selecting the final Kingdoms, we will look for Kingdoms that can promote future discussion. The ideal Kingdom will encourage diverse strategies, have no clear dominant approach, and emphasizes skill over luck.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: popsofctown on November 21, 2011, 11:21:35 pm: Could you include more formatting guidelines for your own benefit?

If there's 100 other submissions like mine, then you've got work ahead of you..
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: Loschmidt on November 22, 2011, 12:24:08 am: Is there a maximum number of kingdom submissions per person?

I feel this may be what pops was hinting at. Perhaps he was considering sending in every one of the 3.75 x 10^15 combination of kingdoms?
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: theory on November 22, 2011, 07:58:46 am: There's no maximum. If you are patient enough to send me 3.75 * 10^15 submissions I will quietly admire your dedication while openly mocking your choice of how to spend your free time.

Here's a sample submission:

Title for the set (optional)

Witch
Mountebank
Jester
Torturer
Ghost Ship
Saboteur
Minion
Sea Hag
Young Witch
Black Market

Bane: Ambassador

No Colonies/Platinums

Notes (optional)
This set is a peaceful and quiet set where Big Money will likely thrive.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: Qvist on November 22, 2011, 09:01:00 am: Ok, so is it better or doesn't it mind if I add notes (or a title achieving the same) describing the intention behind this set?
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: theory on November 22, 2011, 09:21:57 am: It doesn't really matter. Probably there's no harm, and probably you had some intent in mind when you came up with the set, but if you attach no notes then we'll look at the set and come to our own conclusions. They may or may not be your conclusions, and they may or may not be more persuasive than your original intent.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: popsofctown on November 22, 2011, 01:46:33 pm: I'm not putting notes because theory is double my rank. Biasing his decision probably wouldn't improve grand finals.

And no, I'm not powerspamming submissions. I put lots of thought into each one.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: Kirian on November 22, 2011, 04:28:25 pm: Quote from: theory on November 22, 2011, 07:58:46 am
If you are patient enough to send me 3.75 * 10^15 submissions I will quietly admire your dedication while openly mocking your choice of how to spend your free time.

I'm sure that writing a [insert your favorite language here] script to ring the changes would be relatively fast. Running the script might take a little long though.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: popsofctown on November 22, 2011, 04:38:48 pm: I think both the manual and automated methods of accomplishing the task are equally outlandish, so theory just picked manual
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: DStu on November 23, 2011, 03:29:02 am: Quote from: Kirian on November 22, 2011, 04:28:25 pm
Quote from: theory on November 22, 2011, 07:58:46 am
If you are patient enough to send me 3.75 * 10^15 submissions I will quietly admire your dedication while openly mocking your choice of how to spend your free time.

I'm sure that writing a [insert your favorite language here] script to ring the changes would be relatively fast. Running the script might take a little long though.

Especially, once you ran it, you somehow must transmit the games to theory. Assuming 100 Bytes per set and a 1GBit/sec-connection, this would take about 95 years.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: Thisisnotasmile on November 23, 2011, 11:54:37 am: Quote from: DStu on November 23, 2011, 03:29:02 am
Quote from: Kirian on November 22, 2011, 04:28:25 pm
Quote from: theory on November 22, 2011, 07:58:46 am
If you are patient enough to send me 3.75 * 10^15 submissions I will quietly admire your dedication while openly mocking your choice of how to spend your free time.

I'm sure that writing a [insert your favorite language here] script to ring the changes would be relatively fast. Running the script might take a little long though.

Especially, once you ran it, you somehow must transmit the games to theory. Assuming 100 Bytes per set and a 1GBit/sec-connection, this would take about 95 years.

Send the script over and get him to run it himself.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: Kirian on November 23, 2011, 04:54:06 pm: Quote from: Thisisnotasmile on November 23, 2011, 11:54:37 am
Quote from: DStu on November 23, 2011, 03:29:02 am
Quote from: Kirian on November 22, 2011, 04:28:25 pm
Quote from: theory on November 22, 2011, 07:58:46 am
If you are patient enough to send me 3.75 * 10^15 submissions I will quietly admire your dedication while openly mocking your choice of how to spend your free time.

I'm sure that writing a [insert your favorite language here] script to ring the changes would be relatively fast. Running the script might take a little long though.

Especially, once you ran it, you somehow must transmit the games to theory. Assuming 100 Bytes per set and a 1GBit/sec-connection, this would take about 95 years.

Send the script over and get him to run it himself.

OK, I actually LOLd at that. Awesome.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: theory on November 26, 2011, 06:54:32 pm: Update: we've gotten 50 submissions so far. They're great, and we'd love to see even more.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: popsofctown on November 26, 2011, 07:35:13 pm: Submissions go all the way into like halfway through the tournament though right?

Are we allowed to stalk theory's councilroom logs and make setups that emphasize cards he's recently won with :P
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: theory on November 26, 2011, 09:51:58 pm: They basically go up until the finals start.

You can! But half the decisionmaking will be made by rrenaud, and we have very different playstyles, to say the least.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: jotheonah on November 27, 2011, 02:08:16 pm: I'm really excited to see what people come up with! Wish I were in theory and rrenaud's shoes.

On the note of "no dominant approach." If I have a set that pretty much screams "Gardens," but there are about 7 different ways for the players to enable Gardens, does that qualify as a good Kingdom or is it too railroady? Is it necessary that they be able to win without Gardens?
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: theory on November 27, 2011, 02:54:30 pm: Quote from: jotheonah on November 27, 2011, 02:08:16 pm
I'm really excited to see what people come up with! Wish I were in theory and rrenaud's shoes.
After we select the 7 or so, we'll make public the other submissions.

Quote
On the note of "no dominant approach." If I have a set that pretty much screams "Gardens," but there are about 7 different ways for the players to enable Gardens, does that qualify as a good Kingdom or is it too railroady? Is it necessary that they be able to win without Gardens?
That's fine. The key is to allow different strategies, even if it still involves the same card. Submitting a board where DoubleJack clearly beats all other options is a bad idea because it will lead to a boring game where both players have essentially-identical decks. On the other hand, there are plenty of good boards around Goons/Mountebank/etc. where players have various ways to shape their deck around the dominant card.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: popsofctown on November 27, 2011, 05:33:52 pm: just make sure that dominant card has favorable scores on theory and rrenaud's councilrooms ;)
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: 16hp on November 30, 2011, 06:22:35 am: Have you thought about how to tell the finalists which cards to play with? To me there seems to be a practical problem on how to let them know the setup without giving them time to test the setup.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: DStu on November 30, 2011, 06:29:57 am: You could just post them in the chat in Secret Chamber?
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: Jimmmmm on November 30, 2011, 06:33:04 am: Or you could challenge them both to a game and then cancel.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: theory on November 30, 2011, 07:52:18 am: Either of these plans sound good. (Assuming we can find a time that works with the two players + one of me or rrenaud.)
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: AJD on November 30, 2011, 08:50:44 am: Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 30, 2011, 06:33:04 am
Or you could challenge them both to a game and then cancel.

Wouldn't that leave them stuck with 12 provinces and so on?
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: DStu on November 30, 2011, 08:54:57 am: Quote from: AJD on November 30, 2011, 08:50:44 am
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 30, 2011, 06:33:04 am
Or you could challenge them both to a game and then cancel.

Wouldn't that leave them stuck with 12 provinces and so on?

I think if you challange them and reject before they accept, the game is proposed to these two players. As only two player enter the game, there are only 8 Provinces.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: AJD on November 30, 2011, 08:57:21 am: Quote from: DStu on November 30, 2011, 08:54:57 am
Quote from: AJD on November 30, 2011, 08:50:44 am
Quote from: Jimmmmm on November 30, 2011, 06:33:04 am
Or you could challenge them both to a game and then cancel.

Wouldn't that leave them stuck with 12 provinces and so on?

I think if you challange them and reject before they accept, the game is proposed to these two players. As only two player enter the game, there are only 8 Provinces.

Oh, I see. Yes, I misunderstood your suggestion (or it's too early in the morning for me to think clearly).
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: DStu on November 30, 2011, 09:09:42 am: Quote from: AJD on November 30, 2011, 08:57:21 am
Oh, I see. Yes, I misunderstood your suggestion (or it's too early in the morning for me to think clearly).

Wasn't mine suggestion. But it's early...
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: painted_cow on December 13, 2011, 05:21:01 pm: Btw, is there any way that the Finals are counted in the leaderboard then, when they are played with constraints then? This question just entered my mind 8)
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: theory on December 13, 2011, 05:29:53 pm: Haha, I suppose not.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: Thisisnotasmile on December 14, 2011, 05:33:03 am: If the finalists really care about having the matches on the leaderboard they could have 7 unconstrained matches after the tournament's over where the respective loser of each match forfeits.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: painted_cow on December 14, 2011, 09:10:18 am: Good Idea, they only have to agree on this before the game.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: Tables on December 15, 2011, 06:55:56 pm: I doubt they're going to care that much about getting the results on the leaderboard. They did just win an entire tournament (or lost, in which case they still don't want them on the board).
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: WanderingWinder on December 28, 2011, 09:11:05 am: Just submitted ~30 kingdoms.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: popsofctown on December 29, 2011, 03:35:09 pm: Quote from: WanderingWinder on December 28, 2011, 09:11:05 am
Just submitted ~30 kingdoms.

*pushes king over*
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: theory on December 29, 2011, 03:52:09 pm: There's a chance none of them will be used anyway, if WW makes it to the final. As far as I can tell, he's the only one left in the tournament who had submitted a kingdom.

After the final, I'll make all the other submissions public as well, along with comments, if you guys are interested in playing some custom sets when in real life.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: popsofctown on December 29, 2011, 05:36:24 pm: ooh i should put on my thinking cap then.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: pvtforlife on January 19, 2012, 04:56:17 am: Quote from: theory on December 29, 2011, 03:52:09 pm
There's a chance none of them will be used anyway, if WW makes it to the final. As far as I can tell, he's the only one left in the tournament who had submitted a kingdom.

After the final, I'll make all the other submissions public as well, along with comments, if you guys are interested in playing some custom sets when in real life.

Do you have a link to the submitted sets. My wife and I have only been playing a couple months but would love to play with the sets that more experienced players have put together. To get us to see more card interactions among all the sets.

I was unable to find them through searching. Perhaps a word document or Excel file or something like this.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: theory on January 19, 2012, 05:04:22 am: They aren't public yet, because we haven't chosen the sets for the final yet.

As soon as we do, the rest of the sets will be published on this site.
Title: Re: 2011 DominionStrategy.com Kingdom Design Challenge Rules
Post by: timchen on January 19, 2012, 10:23:53 am: Isn't it better to have all the kingdoms published after the final? That way, there will be no one saying "hey, now I know my kingdom is selected because I didn't see it published yet!"