Why is 'unknown' written like that?I guess it'll have to stay unkn[/i]own.
Why is 'unknown' written like that?
Now I understand. And now I hope to be an 'Unkown' character.
I formally request both! at the same time!
oh we're requesting? and we can request two things at once? I'd like to be the assassin and percival at the same time, thanks.
oh we're requesting? and we can request two things at once? I'd like to be the assassin and percival at the same time, thanks.
I'm taking requests for what roles should or shouldn't be in the game, and I interpreted shraeye's request as such. Roles will of course be distributed entirely randomly.
...says the guy who's running VANILLA resistance right now...
...says the guy who's running VANILLA resistance right now...Right. The only cool role in Vanilla Resistance is mod. And I have it.
What!?! So I CAN'T be all the cool roles at the same time??? That's rude rude rude.
Here's a crude but handy little diagram showing what information each power role gets.Let me get this straight: Perceval thinks Merlin or Morgana could be Merlin, right?
(http://i.imgur.com/ngkbl75.png)
Let me get this straight: Perceval thinks Merlin or Morgana could be Merlin, right?
Okay kewl.Let me get this straight: Perceval thinks Merlin or Morgana could be Merlin, right?
That's correct. He will receive two names in his PM and will know one is Merlin and the other Morgana, but not which is which.
Now, normally, I'd just reject any proposal for Mission 1 that I'm not on. It's what I always do.
Since I'm LotL, though...I'm assuming it probably makes more sense to me to be off the mission, then I could potentially check someone out who's on the mission if it fails. So I may consider missions that don't have me on them.
Do people think that me being LotL means that I probably shouldn't go on the first mission?
Hi guys!
How I believe the LotL works (never actually having played with it)
At the end of round 2, TA will pass the token to a player of his choice, at which point he will be told if that player is resistance or spy. That player then will, at the end of round 3, pass the token to a player, and learn their alignment. Once a player uses the token, he will never be eligible to have it used on him again, so TA is never an eligible target.
If either proposal 4 or 5 passes in mission 1, then he'll have or be near hammer for mission 2, and THEN gets to check someone, which if he's a spy, is very not good for us.I'm confused about what this means.
I'll be rejecting all Mission 1 proposals as well since I'm the 5th person in line.no you aren't, I am! :)
Oh, haha you're right! My mistake.I'll be rejecting all Mission 1 proposals as well since I'm the 5th person in line.no you aren't, I am! :)
Hello resistance!
Hey, there's a mission, and I'm not on it! Guess who's rejecting this mission? (hint: his name starts with m and ends with ail-mi.)
I think one of the differences about the first mission in a game this large is that there's 3 people on the mission, not 2.Third person should be the one proposing the mission.
Normally, with 2 people on the mission, it's easy to take the stance of "It's either myself and the guy nominating, or I reject, no questions asked".
With the question of a third person, though, it's a bit more complicated. Sure, it should still be yourself and the guy nominating, no matter your alignment. But who's the third person?
I think Liopoil is a decent choice, given he's the hammer. I think I'd be a decent choice, given I'm LotL. Any other suggestions for who that "third person" should be, or do people think it should be fairly random?
I think one of the differences about the first mission in a game this large is that there's 3 people on the mission, not 2.Third person should be the one proposing the mission.
Normally, with 2 people on the mission, it's easy to take the stance of "It's either myself and the guy nominating, or I reject, no questions asked".
With the question of a third person, though, it's a bit more complicated. Sure, it should still be yourself and the guy nominating, no matter your alignment. But who's the third person?
I think Liopoil is a decent choice, given he's the hammer. I think I'd be a decent choice, given I'm LotL. Any other suggestions for who that "third person" should be, or do people think it should be fairly random?
And there you go.Oh wait. '5' is the total :P
I'd send myself, Dsell, and shraeye.
wait, what, you're doing it wrong. you take a list 8 players, excluding yourself, and roll a d8 and d7, ommiting whatever you rolled on the d8 for the second roll. And why do you want full random?I wouldn't want to do full random, but I'd accept a full random mission since I know that the person sending the mission won't be trying to mislead us. So not really a double standard. But I hate Mission 1 anyway and full random seems the best way to handle it. But then I guess TA is right that there would be no interactions to analyze. But then the mission would be more likely to fail since Spies could have tampered with it. And of course Merlin knows better.
I do want TA to go on the mission.. I think he should because he's the LOTL, and having him on the mission could be an incentive for spies not to fail, which is good.
Myself is obvious enough.
Lio was a pretty arbitrary choice. I don't expect this mission to pass, so didn't put much thought into it and pretty much just picked someone.
I do want TA to go on the mission.. I think he should because he's the LOTL, and having him on the mission could be an incentive for spies not to fail, which is good.I thought that incentive was tied to Twisted being able to check the others on the mission, which happens after round 2 and not this round. Right now I'm reading things and just trying to form up some solid thoughts. The only thing that I have is a suspicious feeling for Twisted's posts. Right now there are two people who keep jumping in with "Hey guys, this is helpful" attitudes. That's Tables and Twisted. Reading both of their posts, Tables looks informative, Twisted looks "helpful" in that special sort of scum way.
Myself is obvious enough.
Lio was a pretty arbitrary choice. I don't expect this mission to pass, so didn't put much thought into it and pretty much just picked someone.
Yeah, it does, so it's not as helpful as it would be if it is round 1. Still, I have no reason to trust any player over any other at this point except for TA, since I know he's the LOTL. And I think it makes more sense to put him on than off. 2/3 of the time it will help, and 1/3 of the time it will hurt.. may as well play the odds.Why is Twisted haveing LOTL a reason to trust him?
If it does go to the 5th mission, then arch will be the first leader next round, and nkirbit will be the 5th. I agree that the 5th leader for mission 2 should be in mission 1, for the most part. So unless I see a good reason not to, my proposal will be myself, nkirbit, and one other person, perhaps TA because he is LotL.I think you should wait until you're up to decide this. There will be plenty of reasons to change your proposal, based on what everybody is saying; and also based on the missions that have been suggested and voted on.
I do want TA to go on the mission.. I think he should because he's the LOTL, and having him on the mission could be an incentive for spies not to fail, which is good.I thought that incentive was tied to Twisted being able to check the others on the mission, which happens after round 2 and not this round. Right now I'm reading things and just trying to form up some solid thoughts. The only thing that I have is a suspicious feeling for Twisted's posts. Right now there are two people who keep jumping in with "Hey guys, this is helpful" attitudes. That's Tables and Twisted. Reading both of their posts, Tables looks informative, Twisted looks "helpful" in that special sort of scum way.
Myself is obvious enough.
Lio was a pretty arbitrary choice. I don't expect this mission to pass, so didn't put much thought into it and pretty much just picked someone.
Yeah, it does, so it's not as helpful as it would be if it is round 1. Still, I have no reason to trust any player over any other at this point except for TA, since I know he's the LOTL. And I think it makes more sense to put him on than off. 2/3 of the time it will help, and 1/3 of the time it will hurt.. may as well play the odds.Why is Twisted haveing LOTL a reason to trust him?
well yeah, that's not set in stone or anything of courseIf it does go to the 5th mission, then arch will be the first leader next round, and nkirbit will be the 5th. I agree that the 5th leader for mission 2 should be in mission 1, for the most part. So unless I see a good reason not to, my proposal will be myself, nkirbit, and one other person, perhaps TA because he is LotL.I think you should wait until you're up to decide this. There will be plenty of reasons to change your proposal, based on what everybody is saying; and also based on the missions that have been suggested and voted on.
I agree with Tables. I know in the last game we didn't have it, but we really should have.OMGOSH failing = obvspy!! vote: arche!
I'm also failing the proposed mission.
SCUMSLIIIIIIIIPI agree with Tables. I know in the last game we didn't have it, but we really should have.OMGOSH failing = obvspy!! vote: arche!
I'm also failing the proposed mission.
Anyway, I think TA should be on the mission because he is LOTL.
Assassin: Come at me bro.Ok
agree 100%
In fact, when a mission is approved, I STRONGLY advise radio silence until the result.
But see, you said exactly that...so that's why I'm confused.Yeah, it does, so it's not as helpful as it would be if it is round 1. Still, I have no reason to trust any player over any other at this point except for TA, since I know he's the LOTL. And I think it makes more sense to put him on than off. 2/3 of the time it will help, and 1/3 of the time it will hurt.. may as well play the odds.Why is Twisted haveing LOTL a reason to trust him?
It's not a reason to trust him. It's just the fact that if a spy is on a mission with TA, they may choose to not fail it because they're afraid of TA outing them later. I want to make sure TA is on at least one of the two missions.. putting him on this is a good way to start.
Assassin: Come at me bro.Oh man i so wish I could +1 this.
But see, you said exactly that...so that's why I'm confused.Yeah, it does, so it's not as helpful as it would be if it is round 1. Still, I have no reason to trust any player over any other at this point except for TA, since I know he's the LOTL. And I think it makes more sense to put him on than off. 2/3 of the time it will help, and 1/3 of the time it will hurt.. may as well play the odds.Why is Twisted haveing LOTL a reason to trust him?
It's not a reason to trust him. It's just the fact that if a spy is on a mission with TA, they may choose to not fail it because they're afraid of TA outing them later. I want to make sure TA is on at least one of the two missions.. putting him on this is a good way to start.
hmmmmm. I'm not sure..... on one hand, I want to be on the mission, and by rejecting, there is a chance a proposal will be passed in 2-4 without me on it. on the other hand, there are also fewer things to look at if we accept this.Could you show your final thought process when you decided to accept?
I am curious why nkirbit chose to reject his mission?
Two, I want the fifth proposal here to be accepted, so I will be in line to be the fifth player the next time around.Why would you want to be the 5th player in line?
Two, I want the fifth proposal here to be accepted, so I will be in line to be the fifth player the next time around.Why would you want to be the 5th player in line?
I know the last mission is an auto-pass, but why should it be you that does it?Two, I want the fifth proposal here to be accepted, so I will be in line to be the fifth player the next time around.Why would you want to be the 5th player in line?
Last player gets to be the one to force the mission through, should it come to that. It means I can put me on the mission, because I trust me!
I know the last mission is an auto-pass, but why should it be you that does it?Two, I want the fifth proposal here to be accepted, so I will be in line to be the fifth player the next time around.Why would you want to be the 5th player in line?
Last player gets to be the one to force the mission through, should it come to that. It means I can put me on the mission, because I trust me!
Lio's vote is the only one there that strikes me as a little odd, but I don't think I can really consider it suspicious - it doesn't seem like a good time to vote yes if he's Resistance, and it doesn't seem like a good time to vote no if he's a spy.But then his vote would be bad-resistance play, but good spy-play? Did you mix up words there?
Why not? I've been getting a resistance-ish read on you, so I'll propose mail-mi, Dsell, and TAI know the last mission is an auto-pass, but why should it be you that does it?Two, I want the fifth proposal here to be accepted, so I will be in line to be the fifth player the next time around.Why would you want to be the 5th player in line?
Last player gets to be the one to force the mission through, should it come to that. It means I can put me on the mission, because I trust me!
Well, his point is that it's in his best interest for it to be him, ie why he voted against his own mission. Which, sure, could make some sense if he thought it was unlikely to pass anyway.
Also, mail-mi, I would like to be on the mission!
Man, I still don't like having Twisted on this mission. Is it really that important?no, it's not essential, but why don't you want him on the mission?
His posts off the bat felt very disingenuous to me.Man, I still don't like having Twisted on this mission. Is it really that important?no, it's not essential, but why don't you want him on the mission?
The only [thought] that I have is a suspicious feeling for Twisted's posts. Right now there are two people who keep jumping in with "Hey guys, this is helpful" attitudes. That's Tables and Twisted. Reading both of their posts, Tables looks informative, Twisted looks "helpful" in that special sort of scum way.
TA shouldn't be given a clear pass to be put on every mission. But putting him on proposals is fine. I'm beginning to get a somewhat suspicious read on him, especially because that last post is EXACTLY what the spies want, while Resistance want a clean team, not one they're on.
Yes you do. There's four pages of discussion, people have said things, there's one set of voting. Same logic applies that applies in mafia. There's info there, and you can get some vague reads on people based on it, already. We're out of the "RVS" of Resistance, if such a thing exists.
I have a read on you. I am suspicious. I would say there's at least a 50% chance you're a spy, from my point of view.
Can you explain your read on Dsell, mail-mi?I start off with a resistance-ish read on everyone at the start. And he requested it.
I have a read on you. I am suspicious. I would say there's at least a 50% chance you're a spy, from my point of view.
Could you expound?
Can you explain your read on Dsell, mail-mi?I start off with a resistance-ish read on everyone at the start. And he requested it.
I'll be declining this mission by the way. If I had to pick someone, mail-mi would be my top Resistance read purely because of how different he is this game from the last.
They are very unrelated. But I was already making a post telling everyone I was failing the mission, so I might as well through in my top Resistance read. Especially since TA mentioned this different behavior just a post above me. Conserving space and all that.I'll be declining this mission by the way. If I had to pick someone, mail-mi would be my top Resistance read purely because of how different he is this game from the last.
Are these two statements unrelated? They sound unrelated.
So you would rather someone besides your top resistance read lead a mission? You are not going to be a leader for mission 1.I'd rather mail-mi be on the mission, yes. As well as TA since he's LotL. But I'd rather gather information than pass a mission with someone on it who may or may not be Resistance.
So you would rather someone besides your top resistance read lead a mission? You are not going to be a leader for mission 1.I'd rather mail-mi be on the mission, yes. As well as TA since he's LotL. But I'd rather gather information than pass a mission with someone on it who may or may not be Resistance.
And besides, Resistance members can be wrong. See Twistedarcher from last game.
No, haha. I meant mail-mi specifically. Even though he is my top Resistance read it doesn't mean that I'm going to auto pass any mission he's on. That would be ridiculous! What I'm saying is that I'd rather have information about people's votes than try and pass a mission with mail-mi on it - who may not even be Resistance!So you would rather someone besides your top resistance read lead a mission? You are not going to be a leader for mission 1.I'd rather mail-mi be on the mission, yes. As well as TA since he's LotL. But I'd rather gather information than pass a mission with someone on it who may or may not be Resistance.
And besides, Resistance members can be wrong. See Twistedarcher from last game.
Ok, yes, but...every proposal, especially for mission 1, is going to have someone on it who "may or may not be Resistance." Like...that is everybody man. XD
Expecting to run to proposal 4 or 5 each time is a dangerous play: In particular it lets spies always vote no until those missions because 'it wasn't going to go ahead anyway'. Every proposal should be considered on it's own merit, but with knowledge of how many proposals still to come there are and in particular who has them. The "knowledge of how many proposals still to come" part should be a significant factor, but not the biggest of all.
Expecting to run to proposal 4 or 5 each time is a dangerous play: In particular it lets spies always vote no until those missions because 'it wasn't going to go ahead anyway'. Every proposal should be considered on it's own merit, but with knowledge of how many proposals still to come there are and in particular who has them. The "knowledge of how many proposals still to come" part should be a significant factor, but not the biggest of all.agree; good point
Look I know voting is important to analyze, especially online, but I am unconvinced that it is worth waiting and waiting until we are down to one of our final proposals and then forcing something through. So, I approve of this mission and will continue advocating for it. (And I am likely to say the same about any future proposal that includes me+TA since I agree with the LOTL theorizing.)What about the thirdperson on eht mission? Who do you want?
Look I know voting is important to analyze, especially online, but I am unconvinced that it is worth waiting and waiting until we are down to one of our final proposals and then forcing something through. So, I approve of this mission and will continue advocating for it. (And I am likely to say the same about any future proposal that includes me+TA since I agree with the LOTL theorizing.)What about the thirdperson on eht mission? Who do you want?
Hey Qvist, put me on the mission!
Hey Qvist, put me on the mission!I may or may not pass this one. I will probably pass 4 and 5.
I don't find the mission votes surprising or concerning at all. I don't see how we're going to get better reasoning than what we had. The mission leader is in all likelihood going to vote for their mission from now on, I think it makes sense to have TA on the mission, and it's not surprising to me that he'd approve a mission he's on. And then there has to be another person. That person is frankly a bit lucky, and I think it makes sense for that person to approve the mission since there's no guarantee they'd make it on to the next mission (unless their the next leader). Most every round 1 mission is going to look like this unless TA is replaced by a "random" someone. And I don't happen to think it's too early to pass something (look at the pace we're going).
Hey Qvist, put me on the mission!I may or may not pass this one. I will probably pass 4 and 5.
I don't find the mission votes surprising or concerning at all. I don't see how we're going to get better reasoning than what we had. The mission leader is in all likelihood going to vote for their mission from now on, I think it makes sense to have TA on the mission, and it's not surprising to me that he'd approve a mission he's on. And then there has to be another person. That person is frankly a bit lucky, and I think it makes sense for that person to approve the mission since there's no guarantee they'd make it on to the next mission (unless their the next leader). Most every round 1 mission is going to look like this unless TA is replaced by a "random" someone. And I don't happen to think it's too early to pass something (look at the pace we're going).
He said he's going to decline my proposal because I'm suspicious of him. How is it not?What? no. We just have different views, so I will most likely not accept your mission.
He said he's going to decline my proposal because I'm suspicious of him. How is it not?
But the problem with that is that Tables and I seem to not see eye to eye and he's the leader for the next proposal, so I'm probably going to decline the mission he proposes
You're attributing a lot to that little quote, Tables.TA and lio were in the last game.
But I agree with your reasoning regarding picking people who've asked.
Btw can anyone else confirm or deny that mail-mi is acting very different than last game when he was a spy? I was not following that game.
OKAY srsly? you guys are accusing me of being a spy because i put someone on the mission that asked to instead of goingfull random? RLY?with a slight read?
Just read how ridiculous that sounds.
Hey, I just got my internet back post-move.
Tables, lio...could you say me what you think about Twisted? I'd prefer to keep him off the first mission, but it's nice to have a reduced variable by being on the mission myself.
Also, I'm concerned that if Tables' mission is passed, then Twisted will be the 5th proposal for #2 as well as having LotL. That seems like a lot of power for one person to have.
Well, I just voted to accept the mission. I could be wrong about thinking Twisted is evil, which is best. If he's spy, at least he won't control LotL AND the 5th proposal of the next mission.Oh, that's a good idea.
Still waiting for a vote? Generally it's a good idea to send reminders to people who haven't voted after 24 hours.
*quickly checks the sign up list* That would be...Qvist!Still waiting for a vote? Generally it's a good idea to send reminders to people who haven't voted after 24 hours.
I've sent two. The player in question hasn't been on the forum for a few days.
A tumbleweed slowly tumbles by...
resistance=townSHHH don't tell him that?
spies=scum
resistance=townSHHH don't tell him that?
spies=scum
Does your PM say spy or resistance? This will help us.
votes are via PM. the current leader makes a proposal, then everyone sends Jimmmmm a PM with their vote. we're waiting for you to vote.
So then, the people who make up the mission, if it is approved, tell the mod if it passes or fails, right? One fail kills the mission, except for the last one which requires two fails.
Both town and scum have the option to pass or fail, or does town auto-pass?
In theory, we can use failed mission team make-up to scum hunt?
How does voting for or against a mission tell us anything? I'm confused on how to scum hunt outside of pass/fail mission stuff.
Both town and scum have the option to pass or fail, or does town auto-pass?
resistance=townSHHH don't tell him that?
spies=scum
Does your PM say spy or resistance? This will help us.
It said Merlin. What does that mean?
resistance=townSHHH don't tell him that?
spies=scum
Does your PM say spy or resistance? This will help us.
It said Merlin. What does that mean?
Hold on a second. I'm Merlin. Are you sure you aren't Percival and your PM just had the words Merlin next to me?
Anyway mail-mi, why the yes vote? I'm suspicious.
Propose Mission 1.4: Tables, nkirbit, Dsell
Me because I trust myself. nkirbit I've already mentioned, slight resistance read on. I agree with most things he's been saying and he voted down his first proposal, which is a slightly resistance thing to do. Dsell I'm not so confident on, but his voting pattern is fine, he's late in proposal order next mission so information on him = good and he was proposed on a mission by nkirbit who is currently my biggest scumread, which is somewhat a good sign.
Lio: Which group do you plan on proposing if the vote gets to you?you know, I don't think I should say that. I want to maximize the chance of this mission being rejected, yes? Well, if I say, "my mission will be me, player X, and player Y" then only player X and Y will reject this for sure, the others who aren't on either mission will decide which they like better.
I do not like that yes vote by mail-mi at all. he's the guy who rejects almost everything he isn't on!In last game.... when I was a spy... which I'm not here.
Do I have a problem with this mission? No. Will I vote yes? Probably.why though?
I'm fine with Tables, and want to see him on a mission for now. Dsell seems neato, and I don't recall too much from nkirbit. I'll look up some voting stuff, then make my decision. Possible accept/ possible decline.Do I have a problem with this mission? No. Will I vote yes? Probably.why though?
I don't really have a problem with nkirbit or dsell on the mission. tables I am a bit worried about. He keeps claiming merlin... which, I dunno, not neccessarily scummy, but it makes me uneasy.
Dsell seems neato
I think the LotR should be on the mission. Which one was that?
This is an intriguing decision for me. On one hand, I want to be the fifth leader next time around, and I am a supporter of the putting TA on this mission plan, so I want to deny it.This is too many words. Why do you want TA on the mission?
But, I am on this mission, and that's a big, big plus. I'm not guaranteed to be on Lio's mission (although it seems possible that he would put me on). And there's no guarantee that TA is put on the mission next time around.
If I could be guaranteed that Lio would put TA/Myself/Lio next time, I would obviously accept the mission. But I can't be sure of that, and being on a mission is good enough for me, so I'm going to accept it.
The reason to have the LotR on the mission is, if it fails AND the LotR is Round Table, he can investigate one of the other two on the mission to figure out who sabotaged, right?
So that makes sense to me. He needs to be on a mission so he can do the checking.
The reason to have the LotR on the mission is, if it fails AND the LotR is Round Table, he can investigate one of the other two on the mission to figure out who sabotaged, right?
So that makes sense to me. He needs to be on a mission so he can do the checking.
The reason to have the LotR on the mission is, if it fails AND the LotR is Round Table, he can investigate one of the other two on the mission to figure out who sabotaged, right?
So that makes sense to me. He needs to be on a mission so he can do the checking.
LotL cannot be used until after round 2. Also, why are you answering for nkirbit?
Obviously they don't. It'd be extremely spy sided if they did, since they could co-ordinate fails and the like too easily. Not to mention Oberon is in the game.
I'm curious about your read on DSell. I've seen you say only one thing about him all game, and I don't even understand that. What makes you so confident on him?
To be clear, Ashersky, there's only a pair of scum who know each other. The third scum isn't known by and doesn't know of the other two.:'(
I have no issue with Dsell's statement. Pretty much my only read at this point is a slight spy read on mail-mi. The lack of reads this early in a resistance game isn't out of the ordinary.. if we were playing in person, we'd be about 3-5 minutes into the game.
but I remember I was suspicious of [Tables] for something.Well work on remembering it; then tell us.
Looked back. He said I was OMGUS'ing him when I really wasn't. Nothing much, but its something.but I remember I was suspicious of [Tables] for something.Well work on remembering it; then tell us.
Who else needs to vote. Let's get a move on already.i have.
Shraeye, why did you accept this? Was it pretty much exactly what you were saying earlier, or did something else come into play?Because I realized TA wasn't on the mission. I would really like TA to be on this mission, but if he isn't I can't really reject this mission, right? If he is not on this mission I can hope He's on the next one.
Mail-mi, you had said previously that you would likely accept this mission. What changed?
I don't get to use LotL until after THIS mission, right?
So we should send the same people again, right?
So we should send the same people again, right?
So we should send the same people again, right?
That's what I want to see happen.
Still just three on the 2nd mission? When does it go up to 4?
The proposal is entirely expected and is entirely getting voted down by me for hopefully obvious reasons.
The proposal is entirely expected and is entirely getting voted down by me for hopefully obvious reasons.
Because you aren't on it? Or because you think Archetype is mafia?
I'd rather have my own mission go through, but if not I'd be willing to go with TA's almost blindly. It is sort of putting all of our eggs in one basket, but there's a 50% chance of him being Town. Which isn't as likely as I'd like it to be, but its fairly likely.What do you mean by this?
awesome!
you guys are great. Last game I had to put in a bunch of effort to get the people who passed the first mission also on the second mission. although to be fair, the first mission had 2 people that time.
I'm going to be rejecting this one. Just want more information, and I don't think there's any pressing need for me to accept one of these proposals at this point.
I'd hope not nkirbit... you have the 5th proposal!
I'm accepting though. I have no problem with arch being the 4th member of the mission.
I accepted this mission for several reasons: It's essentially similar to what mine would be at this point, I do think we want the LotL to be on the second mission, and I would rather be the leader on mission 3 than mission 2.
I accepted this mission for several reasons: It's essentially similar to what mine would be at this point, I do think we want the LotL to be on the second mission, and I would rather be the leader on mission 3 than mission 2.
I mean, having Archetype instead of you is pretty different, right?
If you assume that Myself, TA, and Lio are resistance, there are six players left in the game, three of whom are spies. If you're resistance, that means that out of Archetype, Shraeye, Mail-mi, Tables, and Ashersky, there are 3 spies. 60% chance for a random player who wasn't on the last mission to be a spy.
So I think that the difference between having yourself and having Archetype on the mission is big enough that they're not "essentially the same".
Propose: Dsell, liopoil, TwistedArcher, nkirbitwow. this makes me think that either shraeye is resistance or one of his spy buddies is on the mission. I lean towards the former.
Propose: Dsell, liopoil, TwistedArcher, nkirbitwow. this makes me think that either shraeye is resistance or one of his spy buddies is on the mission. I lean towards the former.
Propose: Dsell, liopoil, TwistedArcher, nkirbitwow. this makes me think that either shraeye is resistance or one of his spy buddies is on the mission. I lean towards the former.
Why towards the former? As a resistance member this is EXTREMELY risky of a proposal. As a spy, it's entirely in his favour if it passes. Unless Shraeye can come up with a very good explanation for this proposal, he's jumping right to the top of my scumdar.
Propose: Dsell, liopoil, TwistedArcher, nkirbitwow. this makes me think that either shraeye is resistance or one of his spy buddies is on the mission. I lean towards the former.
Why towards the former? As a resistance member this is EXTREMELY risky of a proposal. As a spy, it's entirely in his favour if it passes. Unless Shraeye can come up with a very good explanation for this proposal, he's jumping right to the top of my scumdar.
Propose: Dsell, liopoil, TwistedArcher, nkirbitwow. this makes me think that either shraeye is resistance or one of his spy buddies is on the mission. I lean towards the former.
Why towards the former? As a resistance member this is EXTREMELY risky of a proposal. As a spy, it's entirely in his favour if it passes. Unless Shraeye can come up with a very good explanation for this proposal, he's jumping right to the top of my scumdar.
as a spy it is not in his favor if it passes unless he knows his buddy is on the mission, which seems unlikely. as resistance, it makes sense because if he sent himself it probably would be rejected, sending dsell might be more likely.
as a spy it is not in his favor if it passes unless he knows his buddy is on the mission, which seems unlikely. as resistance, it makes sense because if he sent himself it probably would be rejected, sending dsell might be more likely.Finally, why are you answering for him? It sounds like you know more than you're letting on.
At this point, my only reads are resistance on Lio and TA and spy on mail-mi. Everyone else is still null.:'( do you have reasons I can refute?
At this point, my only reads are resistance on Lio and TA and spy on mail-mi. Everyone else is still null.:'( do you have reasons I can refute?
1) cuz I had no problem with the mission (shraeye, Dsell, and liopoil, I believe. It's been a while and I'm on phone), but someone pointed out that 2) LotL wasn't on the mission, and that changed my mind for me.
Okay I was getting my time line wrong.1) cuz I had no problem with the mission (shraeye, Dsell, and liopoil, I believe. It's been a while and I'm on phone), but someone pointed out that 2) LotL wasn't on the mission, and that changed my mind for me.
No! This is not what happened!
What actually happened:
#174: Mail-mi says he will probably accept proposal 4.
#237: Tables proposes' the group for proposal 4.
What I'm talking about you saying that you would pass proposal 4 well before it was even proposed. Your explanation said "you had no problem with who was on the mission"... but you didn't even know who was going to be on the mission at that point!
Ah. Shraeye voting no for this suddenly makes him look a lot better in my eyes. It also makes DSell and TA look very suspicious, since they need to trust more people than necessary to think this mission would succeed.
Propose: Dsell, shraeye, TA, nkirbitWhy do you think that?
I think shraeye's last proposal was resistance-y.
This isn't the same mission as 2.2.
Propose: Dsell, shraeye, TA, nkirbitWhy do you think that?
I think shraeye's last proposal was resistance-y.
wow. you really think that shraeye is more likely to be resistance than me? okay...
I think first mission passing with 3 people means... more.
Haha.
TA: We have 6 players to choose from, if you plan on sticking to the TA/Nkirbit/Lio plan.
Mail-mi, Dsell, Shraeye, Tables, Ashersky, and Archetype.
I obviously prefer not to send mail-mi.
I prefer not to send Dsell, since that's bad if either Dsell is a spy or Shraeye is a spy (since Shraeye was okay sending Dsell and us.). They both could be resistance, but I don't think that we should send a mission that requires us to trust two people when we can send one that requires us to trust one.
I'd prefer the fourth to come out of Shraeye, Tables, Ashersky, and Archetype.
What are people's suspicions right now? I've already mentioned mine - TA from early voting patterns and voting yes to mission 2.2, DSell slightly for voting yes to 2.2 and then proposing the same thing. Mail-mi for... things (uh been a while, might have to re-read him I guess).
Haha.Why do you have a (incorrect) scum read almost every day we play together? Ugh, anyway send me!
TA: We have 6 players to choose from, if you plan on sticking to the TA/Nkirbit/Lio plan.
Mail-mi, Dsell, Shraeye, Tables, Ashersky, and Archetype.
I obviously prefer not to send mail-mi.
I prefer not to send Dsell, since that's bad if either Dsell is a spy or Shraeye is a spy (since Shraeye was okay sending Dsell and us.). They both could be resistance, but I don't think that we should send a mission that requires us to trust two people when we can send one that requires us to trust one.
I'd prefer the fourth to come out of Shraeye, Tables, Ashersky, and Archetype.
I think the bit from all this that had me most suspicious was Tables' reacting with suspicion when I sent Dsell instead of myself, but then ending up ok with me because I downvoted it. Then when Dsell sent a team, Tables thought it was the same team that got sent before. An explanation of what's in your mind right now would help, Tables.
...since I have done nothing to earn suspicion this round besides approve missions that I've been on.
...since I have done nothing to earn suspicion this round besides approve missions that I've been on.
You say this like it's not a good reason to suspect someone. A mission isn't made by it's strongest member but it's weakest. Voting yes purely because you're on mission is pro-spy.
Proposal: Twistedarcher, Nkirbit, Liopoil, Mail-mi
I have much higher resistance-reads on Nkirbit and Liopoil than on anyone else. It's not a guarantee that spies fail the first mission, and I think anyone on the first mission, when the first mission passed, has a much higher chance of being spy than anyone else.
Proposal: Twistedarcher, Nkirbit, Liopoil, Mail-mi
I have much higher resistance-reads on Nkirbit and Liopoil than on anyone else. It's not a guarantee that spies fail the first mission, and I think anyone on the first mission, when the first mission passed, has a much higher chance of being [c]spy[/c]Resistance than anyone else.
This paragraph doesn't seem to jive? I think I know what you mean but care to explain yourself?
Boo!? I don't follow.
Fos TA for telling us not to talk in a message starting with the word no
Boo!
Fos TA for telling us not to talk in a message starting with the word no
Boo!? I don't follow.
Fos TA for telling us not to talk in a message starting with the word no
Ah.Boo!? I don't follow.
Fos TA for telling us not to talk in a message starting with the word no
Starting the post about not talking with the word "no" could be signaling in and of itself.
Do we have lotl info now? How does that work exactly?
Not sure. I've never played with LOTL before now.
The reason to have the LotR on the mission is, if it fails AND the LotR is Round Table, he can investigate one of the other two on the mission to figure out who sabotaged, right?
So that makes sense to me. He needs to be on a mission so he can do the checking.
It sounds logical in theory, but this is literally the least helpful thing you can do with LotL. It's a lot more helpful to get resistance reads from LotL than it is to get scum reads (this isn't mafia where you're finding scum, this is Resistance where you want to find Resistance). And on top of that, the person you check gets LotL so you want them to be Resistance, so they can get a useful read as well, instead of it being 'wasted' from there. And if you keep it in resistance hands long enough, you get a chain of trust, where person 1 (if they're a rebel) knows person 2 is a rebel, who knows person 3 is a rebel, who knows person 4 is a rebel, so person 1 knows 4 rebels instantly.
So you really want to pick someone which maximises the chance of them being a rebel, not the opposite. If LotL is on a mission and it fails and they pick someone on the mission, there's a roughly 2/3 chance either the LotL is a spy or they pick a spy from the others, which is not good. I guess more accurately you'd say it's a 1/2 chance of going from rebel to spy (since if it's in spy hands at the start, it doesn't matter what you do to the LotL, it's still starting in spy hands).
Getting a read on the LotL is the main reason to put them on missions. As of right now, I'm somewhat suspicious of TA, although it is still early days.
I disagree with going for someone you're on the fence with. Unless your strongest read is someone you're like 90%+ confident in, I'd say just go with the strongest read. Confirmation is a powerful thing, especially since it means two people get LotL results the next round, and three the round after, if they're all resistance reads (since you know whatever they say will be truth).Really? If it was me, I'd go with someone I'm not sure about. If my gut read says that someone is Resistance, I don't want to waste an investigation confirming it. It's true that confirmation is powerful, but I don't know. To me it would feel like a waste.
I believe TA's claim.
I believe TA's claim.
What is TA's claim? That you are good? Wouldn't you support that even if you are bad? I don't understand.
So one of Lio / Mail-mi is a spy. Probably not both, but definitely one.
Since they're one good / one bad, I honestly want to avoid both of them. I know we're taking one good person out of play, but that leaves 2 spies and 5 resistance in the remaning 7 players, which is pretty good odds.
And yes, I have no mod confirmed info about TA's alignment. I will, however, have the LOTL for next round.
And it's my turn to propose! We need four people.
We have a couple of ways to play this:
1) Try and figure out who the spy on the last mission was, and replace them.
2) Try an entirely different group.
I will think on it.
I'm still up for it! I'd be happy with shraeye on the mission as well.
Well, lets see.I'm still up for it! I'd be happy with shraeye on the mission as well.
Why?
If we assume that there was only 1 spy on the mission, "off wagon" there are 3 resistance, 2 spies. So if we pick me and three off-wagon people, the only way the mission passes is if we correctly pick 3 out of 5.
I kind of hate that. If we get one spy on it, it's very hard for us to learn anything, and we would have to get both 4 and 5 correct.
So I'm going to have to take along some of Lio/TA/Mail-mi. I think leaving off all three is very poor for us.
Sidenote...we are not supposed to edit posts here are we?
If we assume that there was only 1 spy on the mission, "off wagon" there are 3 resistance, 2 spies. So if we pick me and three off-wagon people, the only way the mission passes is if we correctly pick 3 out of 5.I agree a lot.
I kind of hate that. If we get one spy on it, it's very hard for us to learn anything, and we would have to get both 4 and 5 correct.
So I'm going to have to take along some of Lio/TA/Mail-mi. I think leaving off all three is very poor for us.
The reason I sent Dsell/twisted/lio/nkirbit is because I figured that one likely scenario (and one that would tell us really nothing) was that Arch sends Arch/TA/lio/nkir, I send shra/TA/lio/nkir, and dsell sends dsell/TA/lio/nkir, all with no success.^That post is the one that gives me a townread on shraeye, Dsell.
So by preempting Dsell's mission, I give us something to think about, and put it on Dsell to come up with a team that wasn't the one that just got sent.
I'm not sure what I expected, but I was surprised to be on his mission, and not surprised taht it super-failed with only Dsell voting for it.
I think the bit from all this that had me most suspicious was Tables' reacting with suspicion when I sent Dsell instead of myself, but then ending up ok with me because I downvoted it. Then when Dsell sent a team, Tables thought it was the same team that got sent before. An explanation of what's in your mind right now would help, Tables.
Mail-mi's confusion about why I didn't send myself seems genuine. I'm cool with myself/mail-mi being picked as a fourth with lio/TA/nkirbit. ash/arch I'm null on. I'd prefer not to send Dsell or Tables.
FoS: Dsell for that scum all on one mission plan. Those almost never work unless we're 75% certain someone is scum. And even then, why would would need them to prove it?
FoS: Dsell for that scum all on one mission plan. Those almost never work unless we're 75% certain someone is scum. And even then, why would would need them to prove it?
He did this last game too. It was equally silly, but he was resistance,
So meh
Oops, got Dsell and Arch backwards.
Well, FoS Arch now, for FoS'ing Dsell for an idea that he himself proposed in the last game as resistance.
We're talking about putting one of lio-mail-mi-TA on the mission? uh-oh. I'm fine with that, as long as it's me...at least one of MM and TA is a spy, so I am not risking either one of them on the mission. I'm even a bit nervous about nkirbit, because if I was a spy, I would heavily consider giving a town result on my buddy, and there's a good chance from my perspective that TA is spy.Switch around my name and liopoil's name and you have what I think too.
We're talking about putting one of lio-mail-mi-TA on the mission? uh-oh. I'm fine with that, as long as it's me...at least one of MM and TA is a spy, so I am not risking either one of them on the mission. I'm even a bit nervous about nkirbit, because if I was a spy, I would heavily consider giving a town result on my buddy, and there's a good chance from my perspective that TA is spy.
We're talking about putting one of lio-mail-mi-TA on the mission? uh-oh. I'm fine with that, as long as it's me...at least one of MM and TA is a spy, so I am not risking either one of them on the mission. I'm even a bit nervous about nkirbit, because if I was a spy, I would heavily consider giving a town result on my buddy, and there's a good chance from my perspective that TA is spy.
Alarm bells! Red flags! Where did this sudden spy read on TA and even nkirbit come from? You voted for TA's mission, did you not? "Good chance" that they're both spies?? There was one fail on the mission.
Oops, got Dsell and Arch backwards.No. Last game liopoil suggested it and I only went along to prove to you I was Resistance. I think it's a bad idea, but going along with it helped you make the right choice at the end and let us win. But thats just beating a dead horse, so I'll stop bringing up that game. Bottom line: it's almost always a bad idea to put all spies on the mission.
Well, FoS Arch now, for FoS'ing Dsell for an idea that he himself proposed in the last game as resistance.
Nkirbit is obviously 100% resistance to me, but he should be very close to 100% resistance to most people, too.
The only way he's spy is if I'm a spy as well. Yet the last mission had 1 fail, not 2 fails.
I trust Nkirbit more than anyone else, and I think most other people should, as well.
I'd be very surprised if either TA or nkirbit were scum.
Should we all do a reads list? I can post mine.
(town to scum)
1. Archetype
2. nkirbit
3. Twistedarcher
4. shraeye
Everyone else is largely null.
D'oh. You're right.I'd be very surprised if either TA or nkirbit were scum.
Should we all do a reads list? I can post mine.
(town to scum)
1. Archetype
2. nkirbit
3. Twistedarcher
4. shraeye
Everyone else is largely null.
Let's not out Merlin. Posting your main reads is good, trying to get everyone's reads is quite dangerous.
I'd like to see some people's main reads in each direction, but making an ordered list is quite nasty for Merlin to try and hide in.
Nkirbit is obviously 100% resistance to me, but he should be very close to 100% resistance to most people, too.
The only way he's spy is if I'm a spy as well. Yet the last mission had 1 fail, not 2 fails.
I trust Nkirbit more than anyone else, and I think most other people should, as well.
Dude, when will you learn to not read into my wording :( Of course Nkirbit is 100% resistance. Therefore I trust him. I don't know that anyone else is 100% resistance. Therefore I trust Nkirbit more than anyone else.
And yeah, I do have a vested interest in getting people to believe my LOTL claim, I want people to believe Nkirbit is resistance!
Unfortunately I felt I had to reject this one, partially because of tables' stamp of approval. I can't bring myself to believe that the four on the mission plus tables are all clean. That leaves the spy team as liopoil, mail-mi, and ashersky, and because of the second mission I don't think mail-mi and liopoil are both spies.
Unfortunately I felt I had to reject this one, partially because of tables' stamp of approval. I can't bring myself to believe that the four on the mission plus tables are all clean. That leaves the spy team as liopoil, mail-mi, and ashersky, and because of the second mission I don't think mail-mi and liopoil are both spies.
I am not a spy, either.
I don't have a resistance read or a spy read on you actually.
Waiting for one vote.
My spy reads are Dsell, one of Mail-mi/Liopoil (although I don't know which, leaning mail-mi maybe), and one of Tables/Ashersky (no idea which). I think the four on that last mission were good.
Waiting for one vote.
Oh ugh I assumed I was the last person, I probably wouldn't have telegraphed my vote if if realized. No big deal though.
Tables, why the reject?
I believe he means "no off mission yes's". I agree that it's a good sign that no one off mission approved it -- if all 3 spies are off mission, they'll definitely want to vote it down.I still think it is a good proposal.
what do you mean by "no off mission no's"?
So this is my first time proposing a mission, ever.If you don't include either myself or nkirbit, its a no-go for me.
How does this work? Up until now, it just seems like everyone just does what they feel like.
Out of {Arch - Shraeye - Dsell} who's most likely resistance?
Out of {Arch - Shraeye - Dsell} who's most likely resistance?I would say not arch.
So this is my first time proposing a mission, ever.If you don't include either myself or nkirbit, its a no-go for me.
How does this work? Up until now, it just seems like everyone just does what they feel like.
Out of {Arch - Shraeye - Dsell} who's most likely resistance?I would say not arch.
Out of {Arch - Shraeye - Dsell} who's most likely resistance?
I dont mean to come across so demanding like that, but we're starting to get to the point where we need resistance members only on the mission. But then again we can have all townies with a couple sitting out. So never mind. I'm not as opposed to a mission not containing myself and/or nkirbit, but I would feel a whole lot better if it did.So this is my first time proposing a mission, ever.If you don't include either myself or nkirbit, its a no-go for me.
How does this work? Up until now, it just seems like everyone just does what they feel like.
That's strong.
Out of {Arch - Shraeye - Dsell} who's most likely resistance?Obvious answer: myself
My spy reads are Dsell, one of Mail-mi/Liopoil (although I don't know which, leaning mail-mi maybe), and one of Tables/Ashersky (no idea which). I think the four on that last mission were good.
I understand the toss up between mail-mi and liopoil, but why is it between ashersky and tables and why the spy read on me?
My spy reads are Dsell, one of Mail-mi/Liopoil (although I don't know which, leaning mail-mi maybe), and one of Tables/Ashersky (no idea which). I think the four on that last mission were good.
I understand the toss up between mail-mi and liopoil, but why is it between ashersky and tables and why the spy read on me?
but that would look really bad, because we had decided that he should look for resisitance... and he didn't think mail-mi is resistance. and if all he has to do to get resistance cred is to claim a resistance result, well, that's pretty easy for him, right?
but that would look really bad, because we had decided that he should look for resisitance... and he didn't think mail-mi is resistance. and if all he has to do to get resistance cred is to claim a resistance result, well, that's pretty easy for him, right?
He wouldn't have asked who he should be looking for. He could have just started with using the LOTL on mail-mi.
Tables, you mentioned earlier that you'd have the option of repeating the first mission, which you approved of but rejected. Any consideration towards that at this point?
TA, why have you refused to answer my question 4 times now? Do you feel that you're above answering them because more people have a resistance read on you than on me?
you realize that the only way that mission is clean is if mail-mi is a spy?...which I'm not, and is why im not voting it up because there is a spy on it.
you realize that the only way that mission is clean is if mail-mi is a spy?
Its a reject from me, Tables.
My spy reads are Dsell, one of Mail-mi/Liopoil (although I don't know which, leaning mail-mi maybe), and one of Tables/Ashersky (no idea which). I think the four on that last mission were good.
I understand the toss up between mail-mi and liopoil, but why is it between ashersky and tables and why the spy read on me?
Come on TA
I don't like this mission, but it's going to be better than Liopoil's, so I'll accept. I'm mostly wary of Liopoil. But, he'll be on the next one, and I won't, so I don't think I'll get a better mission.
One good thing about this mission proposal is that it basically tells me that if Tables is a spy, Mail-mi is a spy as well. Not 100% sure, but if Lio failed the second mission, and Tables was also a spy, he wouldn't put them both on the mission. So if Tables is a spy, Mail-mi is probably spy. This doesn't run the other direction though. Nkirbit, Tables may be a useful person to use LoTL on, but we can discuss that later.
If Tables is a spy, I'd be pretty sure that mail-mi is also a spy. If mail-mi is a spy, that doesn't mean Tables is a spy.Are you saying that if this mission fails that I am more likely spy? Or if it passes? If it passes I know I'm damned (curse you spy in Nk/TA/liopoil) but if it fails I think I would be more likely to be resistance (well, to you guys.)
If Tables is a spy, I'd be pretty sure that mail-mi is also a spy. If mail-mi is a spy, that doesn't mean Tables is a spy.Are you saying that if this mission fails that I am more likely spy? Or if it passes? If it passes I know I'm damned (curse you spy in Nk/TA/liopoil) but if it fails I think I would be more likely to be resistance (well, to you guys.)
If this mission can prove im resistance I'm accepting, otherwise nope.
If Tables is a spy, I'd be pretty sure that mail-mi is also a spy. If mail-mi is a spy, that doesn't mean Tables is a spy.Are you saying that if this mission fails that I am more likely spy? Or if it passes? If it passes I know I'm damned (curse you spy in Nk/TA/liopoil) but if it fails I think I would be more likely to be resistance (well, to you guys.)
If this mission can prove im resistance I'm accepting, otherwise nope.
shraeye trusting Tables is the only odd thing about that last vote.nothing about tables in particular. He's not trustworthy to me, nor untrustworthy. pretty null. But Twisted's reasoning made sense. as I said.
Shraeye, anything you can share about why you think Tables is trustworthy?
I don't like this mission, but it's going to be better than Liopoil's, so I'll accept. I'm mostly wary of Liopoil. But, he'll be on the next one, and I won't, so I don't think I'll get a better mission.
One good thing about this mission proposal is that it basically tells me that if Tables is a spy, Mail-mi is a spy as well. Not 100% sure, but if Lio failed the second mission, and Tables was also a spy, he wouldn't put them both on the mission. So if Tables is a spy, Mail-mi is probably spy. This doesn't run the other direction though. Nkirbit, Tables may be a useful person to use LoTL on, but we can discuss that later.
Someone else mentioned spies don't know each other, totally, so how can TA make conclusions based on how spies know each other? That seems flawed.I think some spies know eachother and some don't. That picutre never was entirely clear to me.
He says people leaving other people off missions based on alignment is a tell. But how can Tables, for example, know that mail-mi is a spy, even if Tables is a spy? Maybe he knows, but not completely, right?
I don't get how Twisted is a huge scumread. He is to you?I don't like this mission, but it's going to be better than Liopoil's, so I'll accept. I'm mostly wary of Liopoil. But, he'll be on the next one, and I won't, so I don't think I'll get a better mission.
One good thing about this mission proposal is that it basically tells me that if Tables is a spy, Mail-mi is a spy as well. Not 100% sure, but if Lio failed the second mission, and Tables was also a spy, he wouldn't put them both on the mission. So if Tables is a spy, Mail-mi is probably spy. This doesn't run the other direction though. Nkirbit, Tables may be a useful person to use LoTL on, but we can discuss that later.
You mean here? If this was "obvious" then I'm a dummy. This is so convoluted, and it's coming from a huge scum read.
Waiting for one vote.
Oh ugh I assumed I was the last person, I probably wouldn't have telegraphed my vote if if realized. No big deal though.
Tables, why the reject?
I can propose the exact same mission later on. And that voting looks decent. A little concerning that everyone on mission voted yes but no off mission no's is good.
I liked mission 1, yeah boy yeah.
I liked mission 1, yeah boy yeah.
I liked it well enough until I saw that tables gave it his stamp of approval. That was one too many people approving and it forced me to accept a spy team that seemed highly unlikely. But now I'm not sure tables ever actually approved of it at all.
You mean here? If this was "obvious" then I'm a dummy. This is so convoluted, and it's coming from a huge scum read.I don't get how Twisted is a huge scumread. He is to you?
I liked mission 1, yeah boy yeah.
I liked it well enough until I saw that tables gave it his stamp of approval. That was one too many people approving and it forced me to accept a spy team that seemed highly unlikely. But now I'm not sure tables ever actually approved of it at all.
So do you think there was exactly one spy on the first proposal? Or how many spies do you think were on it?
But you thinking I'm a spy isn't based on logic, right? It's based on just reading me? Logically, I should have more resistance cred than anyone else other than Nkirbit in the game.
But you thinking I'm a spy isn't based on logic, right? It's based on just reading me? Logically, I should have more resistance cred than anyone else other than Nkirbit in the game.I don't think that's true, even from a neutral standpoint.
But you thinking I'm a spy isn't based on logic, right? It's based on just reading me? Logically, I should have more resistance cred than anyone else other than Nkirbit in the game.I don't think that's true, even from a neutral standpoint.
But you thinking I'm a spy isn't based on logic, right? It's based on just reading me? Logically, I should have more resistance cred than anyone else other than Nkirbit in the game.I don't think that's true, even from a neutral standpoint.
Yeah, it does. I wouldn't be surprised by 0 spies on the mission, but I also wouldn't be surprised if Tables was also resistance. That's probably where I'm leaning right now.
Yeah, it does. I wouldn't be surprised by 0 spies on the mission, but I also wouldn't be surprised if Tables was also resistance. That's probably where I'm leaning right now.
I can understand that, but that doesn't work from my perspective. For me, either proposal 1 was clean (or clean to tables' knowledge) and tables is a spy, or proposal 1 was dirty and tables could be either spy or mistaken resistance. Proposal 1 and tables cannot both be clean because that forces me to accept a mail-mi, liopoil, and ashersky spy team. Because of mission 2, I'm unwilling to do that. I rejected proposal one under the assumption of the second situation, but because tables did not re-propose proposal 1 like he said he might and because he changed 50% of the team, it makes me suspicious that the first situation may actually be correct.
Neither situation 1 nor situation 2 puts tables in a great light, so he is one of my top scumreads (along with mail-mi).
My reasoning should work for ashersky too, but replace ashersky with Dsell in the impossible scum team. Do you agree, ashersky?
My reasoning should work for ashersky too, but replace ashersky with Dsell in the impossible scum team. Do you agree, ashersky?
I can't work out what Tables has to do with the first mission. He didn't propose it and he wasn't on it.
My reasoning should work for ashersky too, but replace ashersky with Dsell in the impossible scum team. Do you agree, ashersky?
I can't work out what Tables has to do with the first mission. He didn't propose it and he wasn't on it.
He supported it. Which meant for me that the four people on the mission plus tables supported the mission. That's five people. So four people are left. One is me so the only way that everyone who supports the mission is clean is if the spy team is mail-mi, liopoil, and ashersky (or Dsell in your case) because they're the only people left. Because I don't think that CAN be the spy team, logically there must be at least one spy on or supporting the proposal. So I rejected it.
But so did tables, even though he said he supported it. Then he said he could propose the same thing later and wanted to see how people would vote. Ok. But then later, he didn't propose the same thing, he changed half the people! Which makes me think, ok maybe he only pretended to support proposal one. In which case maybe it's clean and he was the spy.
You should be able to follow the same logic and come to the same general conclusion. Which is not that he's a spy necessarily, but he looks bad.
I don't understand why you find it hard to think that's the spyteam, if you're resistance (why must there logically be one spy on or supporting each proposal??). And if you're a spy, I don't care.My reasoning should work for ashersky too, but replace ashersky with Dsell in the impossible scum team. Do you agree, ashersky?
I can't work out what Tables has to do with the first mission. He didn't propose it and he wasn't on it.
He supported it. Which meant for me that the four people on the mission plus tables supported the mission. That's five people. So four people are left. One is me so the only way that everyone who supports the mission is clean is if the spy team is mail-mi, liopoil, and ashersky (or Dsell in your case) because they're the only people left. Because I don't think that CAN be the spy team, logically there must be at least one spy on or supporting the proposal. So I rejected it.
But so did tables, even though he said he supported it. Then he said he could propose the same thing later and wanted to see how people would vote. Ok. But then later, he didn't propose the same thing, he changed half the people! Which makes me think, ok maybe he only pretended to support proposal one. In which case maybe it's clean and he was the spy.
You should be able to follow the same logic and come to the same general conclusion. Which is not that he's a spy necessarily, but he looks bad.
I don't see why that's a hard spyteam to believe in, if you're resistance. and if you're a spy, I don't care.
The stuff you say there makes sense, I guess. I would find it very hard to believe that the spy team is mail-mi/liopoil/Dsell, although surely there could be a spy or two in there.
Sorry. Mission two, proposal one. Nkirbit's proposal.
Mission 3, Proposal 1
Leader: nkirbit
Proposed Team: Archetype, shraeye, Twistedarcher, nkirbit
Votes
Accept: Archetype, shraeye, Twistedarcher, nkirbit
Reject: Tables, liopoil, Dsell, mail-mi, ashersky
Proposal is rejected.
So back to my original question: do you find tables somewhat suspicious for saying he approved of the proposal, then rejecting it, then saying he could propose the same thing, then changing half the people? I was already suspicious of him, and this makes me even more uneasy about him.
Waiting for one vote.
Oh ugh I assumed I was the last person, I probably wouldn't have telegraphed my vote if if realized. No big deal though.
Tables, why the reject?
I can propose the exact same mission later on. And that voting looks decent. A little concerning that everyone on mission voted yes but no off mission no's is good.
It kinda bothers me that tables posted this and then proposed a mission that was 50% different. Back when he was giving his approval of that mission I felt pretty confident that there had to be a spy in there somewhere. But since he said he approved it but then rejected it and proposed something completely different it makes me wonder if mission 1 really was clean after all and tables is a spy.
When did I ever say I would support mission 1? I don't recall saying such a thing, given I never had any reason to support it. I only see one post from me between it being proposed and going ahead, and I certainly don't say I was going to support it in that.
everyone shhhhh now.
I'd suggest Tables as LoTL, Nkirbit. Or maybe Shraeye.I say don't use it on lio or mail-mi. For me, at least, I'm pretty sure one of them is the spy (*cough* liopoil *cough*) and I think it'd be more effective if he investigated someone he's on the fence about.
Either Lio is spy, or it's Mail-mi and one of Ash/Arch.
Is it worth figuring out Lio/mail-mi or trying to go outside of that?
I think mail-mi was the spy on the second mission. And I think that Lio and TA are resistance. So I think that out of Archetype/Ashersky, 1 is a spy. I have no clue which, so I'm going to use the LOTL there.
I would like input on why people think Archetype and Ashersky are either spy or resistance.
Hmmm. I've suspected the TA/nkirbit combo for awhile, and this doesn't assuage that.
I think mail-mi was the spy on the second mission. And I think that Lio and TA are resistance. So I think that out of Archetype/Ashersky, 1 is a spy. I have no clue which, so I'm going to use the LOTL there.I don't think you should be aiming for spies. Seriously.
I would like input on why people think Archetype and Ashersky are either spy or resistance.
Well, if its a him or me type of situation, I guess he's more likely to be a spy. But I think your thinking of liopoil being town is flawed. All signs point to him being scum, IMO. So I think if you're looking for Resistance, you can investigate ashersky or I (I think there was only one spy on the mission; I really don't think liopoil would include his partner).
I think mail-mi was the spy on the second mission. And I think that Lio and TA are resistance. So I think that out of Archetype/Ashersky, 1 is a spy. I have no clue which, so I'm going to use the LOTL there.I don't think you should be aiming for spies. Seriously.
I would like input on why people think Archetype and Ashersky are either spy or resistance.
Aim for your resistance reads. We HAVE to get resistance on future missions, and we HAVE to be thinking about the final mission as well.
If you hit a spy, great, we know 1 person not to include. but that's all the info we're getting for the rest of the game. We will not be happy in mission 5.
If you hit a resistance, then he'll have a chance to resistance hunt after mission 4, and we can go into mission 5 knowing a LOT of resistance. THAT is what is going to make winning easier.
Not finding a single spy.
Well, if its a him or me type of situation, I guess he's more likely to be a spy. But I think your thinking of liopoil being town is flawed. All signs point to him being scum, IMO. So I think if you're looking for Resistance, you can investigate ashersky or I (I think there was only one spy on the mission; I really don't think liopoil would include his partner).
I will hands down reject any mission with Lio on it, unless you have a LoTL result on him. That's just too big of a risk for my taste.^This
I could get behind sending it to Archetype. I'm not feeling good about ashersky. I don't see why you want to send it to somebody who you see as competing 50/50 with somebody else for being a spy. How about just send that on to me?
When did I ever say I would support mission 1? I don't recall saying such a thing, given I never had any reason to support it. I only see one post from me between it being proposed and going ahead, and I certainly don't say I was going to support it in that.
Hmm... that might actually be a clean proposal. I'm not so confident on Arch as the other three but it still looks actually pretty okay.
When did I ever say I would support mission 1? I don't recall saying such a thing, given I never had any reason to support it. I only see one post from me between it being proposed and going ahead, and I certainly don't say I was going to support it in that.Hmm... that might actually be a clean proposal. I'm not so confident on Arch as the other three but it still looks actually pretty okay.
When did I ever say I would support mission 1? I don't recall saying such a thing, given I never had any reason to support it. I only see one post from me between it being proposed and going ahead, and I certainly don't say I was going to support it in that.Hmm... that might actually be a clean proposal. I'm not so confident on Arch as the other three but it still looks actually pretty okay.
I think we have a mixup with Mission / Proposal here.
So mail-mi is probably resistance.
Nkirbit, what does this make you think of mail-mi? Do you think there were 2 spies on mission 2?
So I say anyone that was on that mission is good. So I'm including myself, ashersky, nkirbit, shraeye, and Twistedarcher. Most likely anyway, unless anyone disagrees (besides liopoil). The 5th spot was a tossup, but I trust shraeye over mail-mi.
both are spies, sorry
The one lio failed.So I say anyone that was on that mission is good. So I'm including myself, ashersky, nkirbit, shraeye, and Twistedarcher. Most likely anyway, unless anyone disagrees (besides liopoil). The 5th spot was a tossup, but I trust shraeye over mail-mi.
Sorry, I'm confused, what mission is this referring to?
One word of caution -- it's entirely possible that Liopoil included a spy buddy on the 3rd mission, with the understanding that Lio would fail, as he did on the last mission, and then new spy buddy would pass. It's not all that farfetched.
I really do trust mail-mi now, though.
The one lio failed.So I say anyone that was on that mission is good. So I'm including myself, ashersky, nkirbit, shraeye, and Twistedarcher. Most likely anyway, unless anyone disagrees (besides liopoil). The 5th spot was a tossup, but I trust shraeye over mail-mi.
Sorry, I'm confused, what mission is this referring to?
I would be very surprised if ashersky was scum. Liopoil had it good with a guranteed mission failure, why would he include his spybuddy? So no, Ashersky is as towny to me as nkirbit.
The one lio failed.So I say anyone that was on that mission is good. So I'm including myself, ashersky, nkirbit, shraeye, and Twistedarcher. Most likely anyway, unless anyone disagrees (besides liopoil). The 5th spot was a tossup, but I trust shraeye over mail-mi.
Sorry, I'm confused, what mission is this referring to?
I would be very surprised if ashersky was scum. Liopoil had it good with a guranteed mission failure, why would he include his spybuddy? So no, Ashersky is as towny to me as nkirbit.
The one lio failed.So I say anyone that was on that mission is good. So I'm including myself, ashersky, nkirbit, shraeye, and Twistedarcher. Most likely anyway, unless anyone disagrees (besides liopoil). The 5th spot was a tossup, but I trust shraeye over mail-mi.
Sorry, I'm confused, what mission is this referring to?
I would be very surprised if ashersky was scum. Liopoil had it good with a guranteed mission failure, why would he include his spybuddy? So no, Ashersky is as towny to me as nkirbit.
Why are you assuming that Lio has a spybuddy?
The one lio failed.So I say anyone that was on that mission is good. So I'm including myself, ashersky, nkirbit, shraeye, and Twistedarcher. Most likely anyway, unless anyone disagrees (besides liopoil). The 5th spot was a tossup, but I trust shraeye over mail-mi.
Sorry, I'm confused, what mission is this referring to?
I would be very surprised if ashersky was scum. Liopoil had it good with a guranteed mission failure, why would he include his spybuddy? So no, Ashersky is as towny to me as nkirbit.
The one lio failed.So I say anyone that was on that mission is good. So I'm including myself, ashersky, nkirbit, shraeye, and Twistedarcher. Most likely anyway, unless anyone disagrees (besides liopoil). The 5th spot was a tossup, but I trust shraeye over mail-mi.
Sorry, I'm confused, what mission is this referring to?
I would be very surprised if ashersky was scum. Liopoil had it good with a guranteed mission failure, why would he include his spybuddy? So no, Ashersky is as towny to me as nkirbit.
This is not only an Ashersky defense but an Archetype defense. The fact that Ashersky is as towny as Nkirbit might be hyperbole, but it shouldn't be true. This may be Archetype trying to get us to trust him.
Why not mail-mi?
I was wrong. Lio is a spy.Arg, why did you let yourself get bullied into giving liopoil the LotL? You were going to pick ash or arch. I would prefer arch of those two, but would have preferred either over liopoil. Lio's mission was just terrible, he gained lots of spyness from proposing that in my eyes.
I wish I knew what was so terrible about Dsell, TA, nkirbit, and shraeye that everyone but myself rejected it. That was and still is my top 4. I am baffled, frustrated, and a little jaded that people seem to refuse to hear me this game.We also need to be very careful about who has the 5th proposal to the 5th mission.
confused. you're frustrated at me for my mission. frustrated at nkirbit for lotl-ing me. suspicious of TA for pushing nkirbit to lotl-ing me. who do you actually think is the spy?I was wrong. Lio is a spy.Arg, why did you let yourself get bullied into giving liopoil the LotL? You were going to pick ash or arch. I would prefer arch of those two, but would have preferred either over liopoil. Lio's mission was just terrible, he gained lots of spyness from proposing that in my eyes.
I now have a big spyread on TA as well, due to him pushing for you to LotL liopoil (which destroys future information).
mission 3: 1 spy on, failed. you wonder why TA accepted the one they both were on, and rejected the ones he wasn't on? because that's what he has to do to avoid extreme suspicion, duh. and he knew I would put nkirbit and not him on it for the last proposal anyway, and it seemed unlikely that any other mission would pass. and if they were both on it again it wouldn't be too bad, they can just fail it the same way they did mission 2.streeeeeeeeech. Whew, that was a big one, I hope you feel better now.
why take Twisted off and put on two untested players (Archetype/ashersky). If you are resistance, then you are just taking two shots in the dark, when we have more info to go off of. If you're a spy, it's a great way to frame more people.what??
that's not a stretch at all man. not at all. if TA had accepted mission with nkirbit not TA on them, or rejected one with both on, he would look so so so terrible. he knew I would put nkirbit and not him on it, because, well, I said I would, and more importantly, I knew that one of mail-mi and TA is a spy, so I'm not putting either on, period. and it really did not seem like any of those missions had a good chance of passing anyway, so he can safely accept ones he doesn't like, and reject ones he does like. And if, somehow, they had both ended up on mission 3, it would not be the end of the world; they'd just do the same thing they did the last mission, easy-peasy. Just like mail-mi and munch did last game, which you modded!mission 3: 1 spy on, failed. you wonder why TA accepted the one they both were on, and rejected the ones he wasn't on? because that's what he has to do to avoid extreme suspicion, duh. and he knew I would put nkirbit and not him on it for the last proposal anyway, and it seemed unlikely that any other mission would pass. and if they were both on it again it wouldn't be too bad, they can just fail it the same way they did mission 2.streeeeeeeeech. Whew, that was a big one, I hope you feel better now.
But seriously, I'm just going to assume you're a spy for the rest of the game.
When did I ever say I would support mission 1? I don't recall saying such a thing, given I never had any reason to support it. I only see one post from me between it being proposed and going ahead, and I certainly don't say I was going to support it in that.Hmm... that might actually be a clean proposal. I'm not so confident on Arch as the other three but it still looks actually pretty okay.
I now have a big spyread on TA as well, due to him pushing for you to LotL liopoil (which destroys future information).This is a really good point. I was a ok with him investigating me so that I could join nkiribt's cult of known goodness, but Twisted was really pushing for lio to be on the mission.
Yeah, liopoil. I think you're done.what the.... if I was the hidden spy, why would I propose that? everyone knows there is a spy in mail-mi-lio-TA-nkirbit, so proposing that mission again makes me obvspy.
If liopoil is the hidden spy, why would he propose the mission he did? Why include entirely new people with one of them possibly being a Spy? Why not do liopoil, Twistedarcher, nkirbit, mail-mi again?
I don't mean to sound rude, but I will be ignoring everything you say. You are certainly a Spy.Yeah, liopoil. I think you're done.what the.... if I was the hidden spy, why would I propose that? everyone knows there is a spy in mail-mi-lio-TA-nkirbit, so proposing that mission again makes me obvspy.
If liopoil is the hidden spy, why would he propose the mission he did? Why include entirely new people with one of them possibly being a Spy? Why not do liopoil, Twistedarcher, nkirbit, mail-mi again?
And I'm not "done", I'm resistance! I don't get why you all think I'm obviously a spy.
I am turning this one down. It puts too much on Tables probably being a spy, and it doesn't include myself / mail-mi, who I think is resistance. I trust Shraeye, but the likelihood that there's two spies in there is just too high.Maybe I'm banking too much on Tables being a Spy, but I'm fairly certain you or mail-mi is a Spy. There may be one spy on the mission, but I don't think there is two.
I am turning this one down. It puts too much on Tables probably being a spy, and it doesn't include myself / mail-mi, who I think is resistance. I trust Shraeye, but the likelihood that there's two spies in there is just too high.Maybe I'm banking too much on Tables being a Spy, but I'm fairly certain you or mail-mi is a Spy. There may be one spy on the mission, but I don't think there is two.
I don't mean to sound rude, but I will be ignoring everything you say. You are certainly a Spy.Yeah, liopoil. I think you're done.what the.... if I was the hidden spy, why would I propose that? everyone knows there is a spy in mail-mi-lio-TA-nkirbit, so proposing that mission again makes me obvspy.
If liopoil is the hidden spy, why would he propose the mission he did? Why include entirely new people with one of them possibly being a Spy? Why not do liopoil, Twistedarcher, nkirbit, mail-mi again?
And I'm not "done", I'm resistance! I don't get why you all think I'm obviously a spy.
I was wrong. Lio is a spy.Arg, why did you let yourself get bullied into giving liopoil the LotL? You were going to pick ash or arch. I would prefer arch of those two, but would have preferred either over liopoil. Lio's mission was just terrible, he gained lots of spyness from proposing that in my eyes.
I now have a big spyread on TA as well, due to him pushing for you to LotL liopoil (which destroys future information).
1. Even though mail-mi/TA are potentially spies, I'm really leaning mail-mi.I don't mean to sound rude, but I will be ignoring everything you say. You are certainly a Spy.Yeah, liopoil. I think you're done.what the.... if I was the hidden spy, why would I propose that? everyone knows there is a spy in mail-mi-lio-TA-nkirbit, so proposing that mission again makes me obvspy.
If liopoil is the hidden spy, why would he propose the mission he did? Why include entirely new people with one of them possibly being a Spy? Why not do liopoil, Twistedarcher, nkirbit, mail-mi again?
And I'm not "done", I'm resistance! I don't get why you all think I'm obviously a spy.
Why? I mean, I know why I'm ignoring Lio, since I saw his LOTL flip, and I know why TA is ignoring Lio, since he saw my LOTL flip, but why aren't you considering both sides?
I don't mean to sound rude, but I will be ignoring everything you say. You are certainly a Spy.That's fine, if I was actually certainly a spy. There is no way you can be certain about that if you are a vanilla resistance member, which we all claim to be. (of course, TA and nkirbit have to pretend to be certain, and if I am a spy, they are certain. But they have info you don't if they are resistance). There is a non-zero chance that TA and nkirbit are spies.
If nkirbit is a spy, so is TA. If that's the case, both M1 and M2 were at least double spy. It's very possible both would have ducked on mission 1. It's less likely exactly one did on mission 2. If one was Oberon, in particular, I expect Oberon would have failed M2, while M1 is possible but not certain. What about the other? Mordred, being hidden from Merlin, might well have played deep cover twice, perhaps in the hope that Oberon was on M2. Morgana seems a lot more likely to have thrown a fail in the second mission, but it's not really a huge difference. But I really can't work out anything in detail from this. Mordred-Oberon seems like a possible pair, but still seems kind of like a perfect storm to have actually happened.
What if both knew each other? nkirbit proposed a mission with TA on it, then voted it down, but TA voted it straight up. An interesting choice. Liopoil then proposes a team which is double spy, out of the blue, which is kind of unlucky, and both spies knowing their partner is there, decide to pass. This makes sense. But with both having passed, they're in a kind of awkward position of both being very likely to be put on missions together. And then nkirbit apparently picks up TA's radio silence post as being potentially a signal, pointing it out (possible bus) The mission is voted up by two people off mission.
WIFOMI don't mean to sound rude, but I will be ignoring everything you say. You are certainly a Spy.That's fine, if I was actually certainly a spy. There is no way you can be certain about that if you are a vanilla resistance member, which we all claim to be. (of course, TA and nkirbit have to pretend to be certain, and if I am a spy, they are certain. But they have info you don't if they are resistance). There is a non-zero chance that TA and nkirbit are spies.
I don't mean to sound rude, but I will be ignoring everything you say. You are certainly a Spy.That's fine, if I was actually certainly a spy. There is no way you can be certain about that if you are a vanilla resistance member, which we all claim to be. (of course, TA and nkirbit have to pretend to be certain, and if I am a spy, they are certain. But they have info you don't if they are resistance). There is a non-zero chance that TA and nkirbit are spies.If nkirbit is a spy, so is TA. If that's the case, both M1 and M2 were at least double spy. It's very possible both would have ducked on mission 1. It's less likely exactly one did on mission 2. If one was Oberon, in particular, I expect Oberon would have failed M2, while M1 is possible but not certain. What about the other? Mordred, being hidden from Merlin, might well have played deep cover twice, perhaps in the hope that Oberon was on M2. Morgana seems a lot more likely to have thrown a fail in the second mission, but it's not really a huge difference. But I really can't work out anything in detail from this. Mordred-Oberon seems like a possible pair, but still seems kind of like a perfect storm to have actually happened.
What if both knew each other? nkirbit proposed a mission with TA on it, then voted it down, but TA voted it straight up. An interesting choice. Liopoil then proposes a team which is double spy, out of the blue, which is kind of unlucky, and both spies knowing their partner is there, decide to pass. This makes sense. But with both having passed, they're in a kind of awkward position of both being very likely to be put on missions together. And then nkirbit apparently picks up TA's radio silence post as being potentially a signal, pointing it out (possible bus) The mission is voted up by two people off mission.
I think the most likely scenario is that they both know who each other are. it makes the most sense that way. but I could also see one of them being oberon and one of them decided to slowplay it.
what? 1 has nothing to do with me. 2, yes, I was on both failed missions. so was nkirbit. 3, okay, you have a read. YOU HAVE A READ. reads are never ever certain, and this is just about my reaction, which I believe happened before you stated you thought I was a spy.1. Even though mail-mi/TA are potentially spies, I'm really leaning mail-mi.I don't mean to sound rude, but I will be ignoring everything you say. You are certainly a Spy.Yeah, liopoil. I think you're done.what the.... if I was the hidden spy, why would I propose that? everyone knows there is a spy in mail-mi-lio-TA-nkirbit, so proposing that mission again makes me obvspy.
If liopoil is the hidden spy, why would he propose the mission he did? Why include entirely new people with one of them possibly being a Spy? Why not do liopoil, Twistedarcher, nkirbit, mail-mi again?
And I'm not "done", I'm resistance! I don't get why you all think I'm obviously a spy.
Why? I mean, I know why I'm ignoring Lio, since I saw his LOTL flip, and I know why TA is ignoring Lio, since he saw my LOTL flip, but why aren't you considering both sides?
2. I was one of the people to acknowledge the common denominator of liopoil on both failed missions.
3. His reaction to being called out as a Spy reads really fake to me.
I have no clue what wifom has to do with my quote.WIFOMI don't mean to sound rude, but I will be ignoring everything you say. You are certainly a Spy.That's fine, if I was actually certainly a spy. There is no way you can be certain about that if you are a vanilla resistance member, which we all claim to be. (of course, TA and nkirbit have to pretend to be certain, and if I am a spy, they are certain. But they have info you don't if they are resistance). There is a non-zero chance that TA and nkirbit are spies.
huh?I have bolded Lio's reasoning on why he's a spy and I'm not.I don't mean to sound rude, but I will be ignoring everything you say. You are certainly a Spy.That's fine, if I was actually certainly a spy. There is no way you can be certain about that if you are a vanilla resistance member, which we all claim to be. (of course, TA and nkirbit have to pretend to be certain, and if I am a spy, they are certain. But they have info you don't if they are resistance). There is a non-zero chance that TA and nkirbit are spies.
I have no clue what wifom has to do with my quote.WIFOMI don't mean to sound rude, but I will be ignoring everything you say. You are certainly a Spy.That's fine, if I was actually certainly a spy. There is no way you can be certain about that if you are a vanilla resistance member, which we all claim to be. (of course, TA and nkirbit have to pretend to be certain, and if I am a spy, they are certain. But they have info you don't if they are resistance). There is a non-zero chance that TA and nkirbit are spies.
I am probably accepting this one, though it requires a ton of faith in shraeye. But I am very grateful to be on the mission, thank you arch.No worries about faithing me. Imma back y'all up 100%.
hmmmm. we have to accept either this mission, shraeye's, or dsell's mission. I'm fairly sure that both shraeye and dsell will: put nkirbit on the mission, and not me. based on his previous posts, I doubt shraeye will put TA on. Dsell might though, and if dsell is a spy and it get to him, he wins. I'd prefer either this mission or shraeye's then. I really think mail-mi is resistance, so I would like him on the mission... dunno if shraeye is going to do that. but, I do still think arch and ash are resistance too... if you just replaced dsell with mail-mi on this mission it would be perfect. (within what I can reasonably expect). I guess I'll accept.
##Propose Mission 4.1: Archetype, Dsell, shraeye, nkirbit, ashersky
missions with only nkirbit seem to be consistently rejected by TA, despite him knowing they'll fail, and being likely able to defend the choices. This seems to make TA+nkirbit spy pair seem a fair bit less likely to me.I really think that's what TA had to do as a spy. It would look really bad if he had accepted one.
missions with only nkirbit seem to be consistently rejected by TA, despite him knowing they'll fail, and being likely able to defend the choices. This seems to make TA+nkirbit spy pair seem a fair bit less likely to me.I really think that's what TA had to do as a spy. It would look really bad if he had accepted one.
what? mail-mi, I don't get your reasoning at all for why I'm a spy. I don't get anyone's reasoning really, except tables.
yeah, but he didn't say anything about believing nkirbit is resistance. and if he does, why is that?Because if TA and NK were spies, there's a 66% chance that they didn't know the other was a spy, and as such they probably would have both failed it.
I am nervous of Mail-Mi as well, although I think Tables is the most likely partner, should mail-mi have one. Two reasons:
Tables was leading the mission that Mail-Mi said he would accept. The only thing that Mail-Mi knows about M1P4 is that Tables will likely be on it.
I think that Tables discussing which players are possibly Merlin is scummy in its own right. I don't think that it's something that resistance ever wants to talk about, since it can possibly provide info to the assassin about who Merlin actually is.
Mission 4 is the only Mission which requires more than one Fail to Fail.
Just ignore what Liopoil says, he's a spy.Just ignore what TA and nkirbit say, they're spies.
So I think the general consensus is that mail-mi and liopoil are spies, yes? That leaves the last one between Teistedarcher/Tables. I guess a spy could've snuck on that last mission, but I trust everyone on the mission, so I'll accept any mission that was the one before. Of someone can give me a good reason why X should be in place of Y on the mission, I may be ok with that.that is NOT the general consensus. This really bothers me, especially because you are probably resistance. you are losing the game for us with assumptions like this.
So I think the general consensus is that mail-mi and liopoil are spies, yes? That leaves the last one between Teistedarcher/Tables. I guess a spy could've snuck on that last mission, but I trust everyone on the mission, so I'll accept any mission that was the one before. Of someone can give me a good reason why X should be in place of Y on the mission, I may be ok with that.
>but I trust everyone that was on the mission
So I think the general consensus is that mail-mi and liopoil are spies, yes? That leaves the last one between Teistedarcher/Tables. I guess a spy could've snuck on that last mission, but I trust everyone on the mission, so I'll accept any mission that was the one before. Of someone can give me a good reason why X should be in place of Y on the mission, I may be ok with that.No. It is not. I am not a spy. Also, I think it's very likely that there was 1 spy on that mission that decided to pass to get on mission 5.
I voted no because while Lio was off mission, so was mail-mi, who I had a resistance read on. I'm really iffy on Arch/Ash, but I had thought it was more likely one of them was a spy than mail-mi, and I didn't have any reason really to trust Dsell/Shraeye over Tables.
I guess I am coming around to the view that mail-mi was a spy, but I'm not convinced that Tables is the third spy.
there are 6 resistance, yeah?yeah. you need to make mail-mi the 5th, and swap nkirbit for tables.
so you say mail-mi isn't spy. Why is Dsell a spy?there are 6 resistance, yeah?yeah. you need to make mail-mi the 5th, and swap nkirbit for tables.
well I think ash and arch are resistance not only because of my read, but also because they were on mission 3 with nkirbit. I think mail-mi is resistance because he was on mission 2 with two spies. I know TA+nkirbit are spies, and I know tables+liopoil are resistance. that just leaves the last spy to be in the group of dsell and shraeye, and since I know you'll put yourself on, dsell should be the one not on. But I do think dsell is more likely to be the last spy than you are because of his weird voting.so you say mail-mi isn't spy. Why is Dsell a spy?there are 6 resistance, yeah?yeah. you need to make mail-mi the 5th, and swap nkirbit for tables.
I like Tables' words the best. so far. I plan to propose Tables,ash,archetype, nkirbit, shraeye. Now accepting last minute attempts to change my mind.by putting nkirbit on, you bet the game that I'm a spy. I think everyone is two fast to come to the conclusion that I'm a spy and not TA-nkirbit. me being a spy may be the more likely option from a neutral perspective - but not by much.
I don't think I was too fast in it. Honestly, Lio, if we lose because you're a rebel, it won't be that you didn't play well enough, it'll just be that nkirbit+TA played it extremely well (and most likely, got very lucky with various actions).you weren't, everyone else was though.
I don't think that's beneficial. If the spies see enough yes votes and the mission is dirty, they can all vote yes and win. Conversely if they see enough no votes, they know they can throw in obfuscating yes votes when the mission would be clean.agreed.
I don't think that's beneficial. If the spies see enough yes votes and the mission is dirty, they can all vote yes and win. Conversely if they see enough no votes, they know they can throw in obfuscating yes votes when the mission would be clean.That's what I was thinking. I was going to say my vote, but then I wondered if I should ask first.
Here's where I'm at:
I absolutely don't want Lio or Mail-mi on the mission.
I absolutely want myself and TA on the mission.
I probably don't want Tables on the mission.
I want 3 out of the 4 of Dsell/Shraeye/Archetype/Ashersky.
I just need to figure out exactly who I want out of the last group. I've been busy recently, but I'll go back and do a comprehensive re-read sometime of those four.
yeah, i'm still not too sure why everyone says mail-mi is a spy.
Here's where I'm at:
I absolutely don't want Lio or Mail-mi on the mission.
I absolutely want myself and TA on the mission.
I probably don't want Tables on the mission.
I want 3 out of the 4 of Dsell/Shraeye/Archetype/Ashersky.
I just need to figure out exactly who I want out of the last group. I've been busy recently, but I'll go back and do a comprehensive re-read sometime of those four.
Bold: Why?
Also, I still don't see why you suspect me so much. If you're not willing to re-read me, why re-read the other four? You'd be looking to find four rebels in a group of four people, which doesn't really seem sensible. You need to also be considering me+Mail-mi really.
Hey Qvist, put me on the mission!I may or may not pass this one. I will probably pass 4 and 5.
I don't find the mission votes surprising or concerning at all. I don't see how we're going to get better reasoning than what we had. The mission leader is in all likelihood going to vote for their mission from now on, I think it makes sense to have TA on the mission, and it's not surprising to me that he'd approve a mission he's on. And then there has to be another person. That person is frankly a bit lucky, and I think it makes sense for that person to approve the mission since there's no guarantee they'd make it on to the next mission (unless their the next leader). Most every round 1 mission is going to look like this unless TA is replaced by a "random" someone. And I don't happen to think it's too early to pass something (look at the pace we're going).
Liopoil: All of 1-4 are probably more likely to not happen than to happen. 5-7 from there are much more likely because it's easy for them to communicate anyway (whoever played the fail before can play the fail again, and a double fail in 4 people is less important anyways). And it's the combined odds of all of them which matters, which together is remote.but I mean, the point is, you can say that about anything. for instance:
So I'm scum because the person I've been most suspicious of all game is scum? Explain this one to me again, please. How am I Mail-mi's likely partner? How do you know Mail-mi even has a partner?
Is this the post from Mail-mi you're referring to?Hey Qvist, put me on the mission!I may or may not pass this one. I will probably pass 4 and 5.
I don't find the mission votes surprising or concerning at all. I don't see how we're going to get better reasoning than what we had. The mission leader is in all likelihood going to vote for their mission from now on, I think it makes sense to have TA on the mission, and it's not surprising to me that he'd approve a mission he's on. And then there has to be another person. That person is frankly a bit lucky, and I think it makes sense for that person to approve the mission since there's no guarantee they'd make it on to the next mission (unless their the next leader). Most every round 1 mission is going to look like this unless TA is replaced by a "random" someone. And I don't happen to think it's too early to pass something (look at the pace we're going).
Is this the post you're referring to?
Liopoil: All of 1-4 are probably more likely to not happen than to happen. 5-7 from there are much more likely because it's easy for them to communicate anyway (whoever played the fail before can play the fail again, and a double fail in 4 people is less important anyways). And it's the combined odds of all of them which matters, which together is remote.
Liopoil: All of 1-4 are probably more likely to not happen than to happen. 5-7 from there are much more likely because it's easy for them to communicate anyway (whoever played the fail before can play the fail again, and a double fail in 4 people is less important anyways). And it's the combined odds of all of them which matters, which together is remote.but I mean, the point is, you can say that about anything. for instance:
what are the odds that I, as a spy, would: reject M1P1, accept M2P1, reject M2P3, AND accept M3P3?? it's a ridiculous arguement, because I just chose some random proposals, and there has to be some combination of accept/rejects, though all are unlikely.
And 1-4 are all very ordinary things.
#1: one of them might be oberon, or maybe they're "bussing", a very valid tactic there.
#2: passing mission 1 is ordinary, and heck, if I'm a spy, I did it too.
#3: again one of them might be oberon, and to pretend to be resistance, they should have resistance reads on each other. no excuse not to put the other on the mission
#4: there has to be SOME combination of pass/fails, and actually, that one is the most likely!!
but those 7 aren't things that are neccessary for the spyteam to be possible. well, maybe for #2, #4, and #5, but the others are just things that happened. and those three are silly:Liopoil: All of 1-4 are probably more likely to not happen than to happen. 5-7 from there are much more likely because it's easy for them to communicate anyway (whoever played the fail before can play the fail again, and a double fail in 4 people is less important anyways). And it's the combined odds of all of them which matters, which together is remote.but I mean, the point is, you can say that about anything. for instance:
what are the odds that I, as a spy, would: reject M1P1, accept M2P1, reject M2P3, AND accept M3P3?? it's a ridiculous arguement, because I just chose some random proposals, and there has to be some combination of accept/rejects, though all are unlikely.
And 1-4 are all very ordinary things.
#1: one of them might be oberon, or maybe they're "bussing", a very valid tactic there.
#2: passing mission 1 is ordinary, and heck, if I'm a spy, I did it too.
#3: again one of them might be oberon, and to pretend to be resistance, they should have resistance reads on each other. no excuse not to put the other on the mission
#4: there has to be SOME combination of pass/fails, and actually, that one is the most likely!!
This argument doesn't work. The points made are things that are necessary for the spy team to be the case from where we are. In your case we wouldn't be asking, what's the chance you voted that way given you're a spy, but given you voted that way, what's the chance you're a spy? There's a subtle but very important difference.
Ok good.
I didn't want it to pass. I don't trust Tables.Ok good.
Why good?
I didn't want it to pass. I don't trust Tables.Ok good.
Why good?
Tables has been extremely pro-resistance the last couple of days though.. perhaps he deserves points for that.
My best bet for the team is tables, dsell, liopoil. Tables as the hidden spy who thought that
Mail-mi was his partner before learning it was actually liopoil.
My best bet for the team is tables, dsell, liopoil. Tables as the hidden spy who thought that
Mail-mi was his partner before learning it was actually liopoil.
The people I believe to be resistance don't trust mail-mi though, so I'm ok leaving him off. The team I want is me/nkirbit/shraeye/arch/ash.
My best bet for the team is tables, dsell, liopoil. Tables as the hidden spy who thought that
Mail-mi was his partner before learning it was actually liopoil.
My best bet for the team is tables, dsell, liopoil. Tables as the hidden spy who thought thatI'm not wanting dsell or liopoil on any missions.
Mail-mi was his partner before learning it was actually liopoil.
It also seems that nkirbit has a scum read on me every game we play together.My best bet for the team is tables, dsell, liopoil. Tables as the hidden spy who thought thatI'm not wanting dsell or liopoil on any missions.
Mail-mi was his partner before learning it was actually liopoil.
I definitely want ash/arch/shraeye/nkirbit. That last one is super tough. I liked what Tables said earlier, but yeah, it's possible he's the hidden spy.
I still don't quite see the spy-read on mail-mi. It looks like nkirbit, for example, has given mail-mi a permanent spy read since mission 1 simply because of what is arguably poor play. just because it's poor play, doesn't mean it's spy-play. Twisted I go back and forth on. He's my gut spy-read since beginning, but now that evidence is available, I realize that I have no idea how to use it.
My best bet for the team is tables, dsell, liopoil. Tables as the hidden spy who thought thatI'm not wanting dsell or liopoil on any missions.
Mail-mi was his partner before learning it was actually liopoil.
My best bet for the team is tables, dsell, liopoil. Tables as the hidden spy who thought thatI'm not wanting dsell or liopoil on any missions.
Mail-mi was his partner before learning it was actually liopoil.
I hate that I'm in the same sentence as Lio here. The only evidence anyone has presented against me is that my voting was weird on one of the early missions, and I think I explained each one of those votes.
Why do people trust ashersky??
well, arch is overly certain I'm a spy, and ashersky isn't.My best bet for the team is tables, dsell, liopoil. Tables as the hidden spy who thought thatI'm not wanting dsell or liopoil on any missions.
Mail-mi was his partner before learning it was actually liopoil.
I hate that I'm in the same sentence as Lio here. The only evidence anyone has presented against me is that my voting was weird on one of the early missions, and I think I explained each one of those votes.
Why do people trust ashersky??
How can you differentiate ashersky from arch?
I'm reading more resistance on Arch and Ash mostly by the process of deduction - there's only three spies. Ash also made that gambit in M2, which I think was a very pro-resistance move and also lead to more odd voting from DSell.
Yes, I meant Shraeye there, my bad. I'm more confident on Shrae than Ash and Arch as a result.
I plan on proposing Dsell, Nkirbit, Shraeye, Archetype, Twistedarchermmmmhmmmm
The only person I'm willing to replace is TA and unless I hear a stellar argument otherwise, probably only with Ashersky.
Shraeye, I know you have reservations about TA, this is your chance to change my mind on him (I think he is slightly better than neutral, and my read on Ash at the moment is as neutral as it gets).
I plan on proposing Dsell, Nkirbit, Shraeye, Archetype, Twistedarcher
The only person I'm willing to replace is TA and unless I hear a stellar argument otherwise, probably only with Ashersky.
Shraeye, I know you have reservations about TA, this is your chance to change my mind on him (I think he is slightly better than neutral, and my read on Ash at the moment is as neutral as it gets).
I plan on proposing Dsell, Nkirbit, Shraeye, Archetype, Twistedarcher
The only person I'm willing to replace is TA and unless I hear a stellar argument otherwise, probably only with Ashersky.
Shraeye, I know you have reservations about TA, this is your chance to change my mind on him (I think he is slightly better than neutral, and my read on Ash at the moment is as neutral as it gets).
If you trust nkirbit, you trust TA, right? Lotl means they both have to be town, or both mafia, since town!nkirbit would have just told us TA was scum when he received the Lotl.
I plan on proposing Dsell, Nkirbit, Shraeye, Archetype, Twistedarchermmmmhmmmm
The only person I'm willing to replace is TA and unless I hear a stellar argument otherwise, probably only with Ashersky.
Shraeye, I know you have reservations about TA, this is your chance to change my mind on him (I think he is slightly better than neutral, and my read on Ash at the moment is as neutral as it gets).
nope, that says it all.I plan on proposing Dsell, Nkirbit, Shraeye, Archetype, Twistedarchermmmmhmmmm
The only person I'm willing to replace is TA and unless I hear a stellar argument otherwise, probably only with Ashersky.
Shraeye, I know you have reservations about TA, this is your chance to change my mind on him (I think he is slightly better than neutral, and my read on Ash at the moment is as neutral as it gets).
Nothing more to add? ::)
I plan on proposing Dsell, Nkirbit, Shraeye, Archetype, Twistedarcher
The only person I'm willing to replace is TA and unless I hear a stellar argument otherwise, probably only with Ashersky.
Shraeye, I know you have reservations about TA, this is your chance to change my mind on him (I think he is slightly better than neutral, and my read on Ash at the moment is as neutral as it gets).
If you trust nkirbit, you trust TA, right? Lotl means they both have to be town, or both mafia, since town!nkirbit would have just told us TA was scum when he received the Lotl.
I plan on proposing Dsell, Nkirbit, Shraeye, Archetype, Twistedarcher
The only person I'm willing to replace is TA and unless I hear a stellar argument otherwise, probably only with Ashersky.
Shraeye, I know you have reservations about TA, this is your chance to change my mind on him (I think he is slightly better than neutral, and my read on Ash at the moment is as neutral as it gets).
If you trust nkirbit, you trust TA, right? Lotl means they both have to be town, or both mafia, since town!nkirbit would have just told us TA was scum when he received the Lotl.
If you trust me, you trust Nkirbit, but it doesn't work the other way around. I saw Nkirbit's alignment, but he did not see mine.
okay, if mail-mi is a spy, they've already won, so I'm treating mail-mi as IC. So now we've got to reject the next two missions, and mail-mi has to make the right call.
I have reservations about arche, and Dsell or I would be better.
I have reservations about arche, and Dsell or I would be better.
More reservations about Arch than Ash??
I think we should be taking tables.instead of who?
nkirbit, who would you propose? I'm actually more willing to accept this than I would a mission that switched both me+DSell on (regardless of who came off), so I'd like to know your thoughts on DSell before deciding what to do.
You got my list slightly wrong, that was the pre-losing list. I actually put someone else as Mordred. I don't remember who. Erm probably was Arch, let me check... Ashersky? Sure whatever, I said that.
Thank you Jimmmmm for running this!
Major props to Archetype, who had me quite fooled.
To be honest, I didn't enjoy this game much. I kinda felt like people were punishing non-conforming thinking and playing. I wasn't exactly right about things but after a certain point I felt I wasn't even being heard. There were a couple points where I was really upset about it. I think resistance played pretty poorly here, and spies (especially arch) quite well.
I'd be happy to run another game, is there interest?
I'd be happy to run another game, is there interest?
What are you thinking of running? ie number of people, roles etc.
I'd be happy to run another game, is there interest?
What are you thinking of running? ie number of people, roles etc.
Whatever the people want!
Are you guys against plot cards for the most part?
This game also dragged on way, way too long for what it was, which is why I don't think it translates nearly as well as mafia does. I found myself losing interest by like, Mission 2, unfortunately.
This game also dragged on way, way too long for what it was, which is why I don't think it translates nearly as well as mafia does. I found myself losing interest by like, Mission 2, unfortunately.
What's the solution? Fewer people? Shorter deadlines?
Fun game. I was watching through most of it. During the last day I thought mail-mi, lio and dsell were the scum team from a viewers standpoint. Although I never quite grasped the significance of all the roles/interactions, so wasn't really looking for those indicators.
I might be interested in trying this out, if only for the sake of potentially buying for my game collection.
Fun game. I was watching through most of it. During the last day I thought mail-mi, lio and dsell were the scum team from a viewers standpoint. Although I never quite grasped the significance of all the roles/interactions, so wasn't really looking for those indicators.
I might be interested in trying this out, if only for the sake of potentially buying for my game collection.
If you've got a good game group I highly recommend it! I don't have Avalon but even the base game is a blast. I am trying to figure out the best way to implement some elements of Avalon with the base game, because I really like the roles.
Fun game. I was watching through most of it. During the last day I thought mail-mi, lio and dsell were the scum team from a viewers standpoint. Although I never quite grasped the significance of all the roles/interactions, so wasn't really looking for those indicators.
I might be interested in trying this out, if only for the sake of potentially buying for my game collection.
If you've got a good game group I highly recommend it! I don't have Avalon but even the base game is a blast. I am trying to figure out the best way to implement some elements of Avalon with the base game, because I really like the roles.
You could buy the promos? You should be able to locate them on BGG, I think.
Fun game. I was watching through most of it. During the last day I thought mail-mi, lio and dsell were the scum team from a viewers standpoint. Although I never quite grasped the significance of all the roles/interactions, so wasn't really looking for those indicators.
I might be interested in trying this out, if only for the sake of potentially buying for my game collection.
If you've got a good game group I highly recommend it! I don't have Avalon but even the base game is a blast. I am trying to figure out the best way to implement some elements of Avalon with the base game, because I really like the roles.
You could buy the promos? You should be able to locate them on BGG, I think.
I didn't know those existed! I'll check it out, thanks.