Dominion Strategy Forum
Archive => Archive => Innovation General Discussion => Topic started by: ehunt on March 06, 2013, 01:00:43 pm
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this discussion has been hashed and rehashed for dominion, but how do we feel about resigning in innovation? my dominion instinct is to resign often; should i rein it in?
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If people want to resign against me I'm not going to complain about a free win. However, I wouldn't be as comfortable resigning myself in Innovaion as I am in Dominion. The game is just so much more down to luck and it can always be turned round somehow... That next card might be the one card in the game which will turn the tables on your opponent, but you'll never know if you quit.
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Well, at the level of knowledge you and I have, TINAS, your statement is certainly true. However, high level players like BrokenTree and yaron might be able to know by memorization that really and truly, all the next cards are not helpful to turn the tables.
But to be in such a hopeless state, you almost always have to be 1-2 turns away from losing. I just take a couple draw actions instead of making meaningful choices and let my opponent finish me off, it takes just a few seconds.
If you are resigning because your opponent has 30 in his score pile and has achieved 1, 2, and 3, so actually losing is pretty far away, I would agree with TINAS that you should keep going because there are some crazy luck streaks that can turn things around. Especially in Echoes. I think theoretically Watermill can tech you up to age 10 from 2 in one action.
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When I had this win I thought it would be shareworthy because it is such an example of how turnarounds can be achieved, even in desperate situations (most of the game is boring, basically only the state of the game at the turn before last and then the actual last turn are of interest):
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201303/19/game-20130319-124535-233f1cc8.html
Another ridiculous example I found on the forum while looking around for a good place to put my own example:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/881332/shortest-and-silliest-game-of-innovation-yet
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how the heck did you end the game with slide rule? even if you had all the card splayed at best you could get a 9 since your lowest card has to be a 4 in any case
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echo effect covers slide rule with another card.
Or slide rule was shared.
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Clearly, the ethical thing to do if you think you are going to lose and you aren't going to have any fun is to leave.
But don't dare do it without calling your opponent lucky or questioning his sexuality or his skills. That would be immoral.
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Clearly, the ethical thing to do if you think you are going to lose and you aren't going to have any fun is to leave.
But don't dare do it without calling your opponent lucky or questioning his sexuality or his skills. That would be immoral.
I'm not sure whether or not the first line is serious.
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this discussion has been hashed and rehashed for dominion, but how do we feel about resigning in innovation? my dominion instinct is to resign often; should i rein it in?
You should resign, but only if you mention Kickball first!
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From what I've seen so far (only about 20 games under my belt)
If you're behind in achievements 5-0, you can still win.
If your opponent is 5 ages ahead of you, you can still win.
If your opponent has ridiculous numbers of points and you have 0, you can still win.
If your opponent is wrecking havoc on your board, you can still win.
If your opponent has tucked/splayed a gazillion cards and is solidly ahead of you in every icon category, and you're not in techs 7+ or close to winning by achievements.. you can probably resign. Icon/splay dominance is the only durable "choke hold" this game has. And it's still possible to squirm out of it by finding a shared dogma that will help you but be ruinous to him.
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You can definitely get a lucky break and turn the game around, even when you're 30 points and 3 achievements down. That said, you are definitely less likely to win at that point (obviously). If you really don't want to play out the game (or realize you should probably be working ;)), I personally think it's fine to say something in chat, to the likes of, "Man, good going! You've got a big edge on me. I resign, good game."
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One should never just ragequit; a courteous opponent will always recognize their opponent by saying something like, "You've got me on this one, thanks for the game." At that point, you've established that you're not angry, but that you just want to start a new game because you don't see hope in this one.
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If people want to resign against me I'm not going to complain about a free win. However, I wouldn't be as comfortable resigning myself in Innovaion as I am in Dominion. The game is just so much more down to luck and it can always be turned round somehow... That next card might be the one card in the game which will turn the tables on your opponent, but you'll never know if you quit.
having played several more games of innovation, this is just completely true. Ethics aside, the STRATEGY of the ragequit is much worse in Innovation than Dominion. The payoff for ragequitting in Innovation is a lot lower (because by the time you know you're doomed with say 98% certainty, the game is typically a turn or two from over, so you're not saving much time) and the risk is a lot higher.