Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Non-Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: michaeljb on January 22, 2013, 04:19:12 pm

Title: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on January 22, 2013, 04:19:12 pm
Link to the game: http://www.boiteajeux.net/jeux/agr/partie.php?id=594594
Turn History: http://www.boiteajeux.net/jeux/agr/historique.php?id=594594

Agricola Rulebook (http://www.zmangames.com/boardgames/files/agricola/Agricola_Rules.pdf)

When creating an Agricola game at boiteajeux.net (http://www.boiteajeux.net), it allows you to enter the names (boiteajeux usernames, so you'll have to be registered there) of guests to play in the game. For the first week after the game is created, only the invited guests are allowed to join.

I think this would work pretty well if anyone else wanted to play a game of Agricola; it's a quite a lot of info to track and display for a standard PBF, and the BaJ client is pretty nice.

some more info on BaJ's Agricola:
Your score is always visible, it keeps a nice history of the actions

3 choices for 'Variant' - Family, Advanced, Tournament. Family and Advanced are straight from the Agricola rulebook, Tournament is Advanced with some cards banned (the list of bans is available here (http://www.boiteajeux.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12594))

Include any of the Beginner (E), Interactive (I), and Complex (K) decks (these are just the decks that come with base Agricola; also it looks like it doesn't have quite all the cards (http://www.boiteajeux.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12600&start=0))

3 options for Distribution of cards at the beginning of the game - Random, Draft, 10-7. In Draft, you choose one Occupation and one Minor Improvement from a hand, then pass that hand to the next player, and so on. In 10-7 you are dealt 10 Occupations and 10 Minor Improvements, and you pick which 7 of each to keep.

Is there any interest in doing this?

1 michaeljb (Advanced, EIK, 10-7)
2 Qvist
3 mith

When you want to sign up, be sure to let me know what your username at BaJ is, and include your preferences for the variant/decks/distribution to use.

Link to the game: http://www.boiteajeux.net/jeux/agr/partie.php?id=594594
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: Qvist on January 22, 2013, 04:23:01 pm
Yeah, I would be in. Never played it though, but willing to learn if you don't mind.
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: Insomniac on January 22, 2013, 04:25:13 pm
Yeah, I would be in. Never played it though, but willing to learn if you don't mind.

Have you ever played Puerto Rico?

EDIT: I see your in the PBF.

It's like puerto rico but with different actions. and new actions available each round. Instead of everyone getting the action you choose you are greedy and only you get it.
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: Qvist on January 22, 2013, 04:26:34 pm
Yes and I'm currently playing it here in the forums.
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: michaeljb on January 22, 2013, 04:28:25 pm
Yeah, I would be in. Never played it though, but willing to learn if you don't mind.

Sounds good. I've taught the game 5-6 times IRL, hopefully I can do it just as well without the physical board in front of us ;)
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: Qvist on January 22, 2013, 04:31:36 pm
Yeah, I would be in. Never played it though, but willing to learn if you don't mind.

Have you ever played Puerto Rico?

EDIT: I see your in the PBF.

It's like puerto rico but with different actions. and new actions available each round. Instead of everyone getting the action you choose you are greedy and only you get it.

Let's say it differently. I know Agricola. (Of course I know it, it's one of the best games according to BGG) So I know the theme and the basic mechanics, but I never played it, so I still have to read the rules and learn it from the start.

Yeah, I would be in. Never played it though, but willing to learn if you don't mind.

Sounds good. I've taught the game 5-6 times IRL, hopefully I can do it just as well without the physical board in front of us ;)

No worries, I will read the rules and may just ask some questions at the first couple of rounds.
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: Watno on January 22, 2013, 04:32:34 pm
Yeah, I would be in. Never played it though, but willing to learn if you don't mind.

Have you ever played Puerto Rico?

EDIT: I see your in the PBF.

It's like puerto rico but with different actions. and new actions available each round. Instead of everyone getting the action you choose you are greedy and only you get it.
Tbh, I don't see much similarity between those games.

I'd love to be in, but busy in the next month or so, so I don't wanna join more games atm :(
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: michaeljb on January 22, 2013, 04:33:44 pm
Cool. Also, be sure to let me know your username when you've registered at BaJ (also I added that to the OP)
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: eHalcyon on January 22, 2013, 04:33:50 pm
Are those cards banned in Tournament because they are too powerful?
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: mith on January 22, 2013, 04:38:08 pm
I'd be up for a game, but would strongly prefer fewer than 5. If you split into smaller games (or if someone feels like playing a 2-player), let me know. (Same username.)
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: michaeljb on January 22, 2013, 04:39:01 pm
Are those cards banned in Tournament because they are too powerful?

Yeah. The wording the site specifically uses is "considered as overpowered in most of tournaments".
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: michaeljb on January 22, 2013, 04:40:38 pm
I'd be up for a game, but would strongly prefer fewer than 5. If you split into smaller games (or if someone feels like playing a 2-player), let me know. (Same username.)

If 3 is fine we could start with you, me and Qvist now. I wouldn't mind splitting it up/making more games (since the 'mod' work for this is just making the thread here and the game at BaJ)
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: Qvist on January 22, 2013, 04:44:09 pm
User Qvist created...
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: mith on January 22, 2013, 05:16:21 pm
That would be fine with me. (And 10/7 is fine, or whatever really. Draft is probably a bad idea for a new player though. :))
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: michaeljb on January 22, 2013, 07:34:18 pm
Alright, I'll set up the game when I get home
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux - sign up closed
Post by: michaeljb on January 22, 2013, 07:36:08 pm
Should we make it Advanced or Tournament?
And Qvist, are you fine with 10-7?
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux - sign up closed
Post by: Qvist on January 23, 2013, 03:33:09 am
I have no idea what 10-7 means and just started reading the rules. Do whatever you want. I try to finish reading the rules today after work.
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux - sign up closed
Post by: michaeljb on January 23, 2013, 03:42:07 am
Alright, I've created the game, meaning you should be receiving the invites by email now.
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: Qvist on January 24, 2013, 03:51:28 am
Is there an option to get an email notification when it is your turn?
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: michaeljb on January 24, 2013, 01:42:24 pm
http://www.boiteajeux.net/index.php?p=infos

Quote
WHAT IS THE EMAIL ADDRESS FOR ?
You will receive an email at 7am and 7pm (GMT +1) only if other players are waiting for you to play. This email will contain the list of related games.
With your registration (validated by email), you have access to the portal forum, where you can discuss with other players.

So it looks like you'd only get an email once per day, if it happens to be your turn at the right time...I don't know if there's a way to make it notify you every turn.
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: michaeljb on January 24, 2013, 07:33:25 pm
So it turns out you can sort of spectate at BaJ, if anyone happens to be interested in how the game's going. (also adding link in the OP)

http://www.boiteajeux.net/jeux/agr/partie.php?id=594594
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: michaeljb on January 26, 2013, 05:25:32 pm
Is there an option to get an email notification when it is your turn?

Maybe we could message each other here. So you take your turn, then PM the next player that it's their turn.
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: Qvist on January 26, 2013, 05:36:36 pm
It can be so easy. Great idea. michaeljb, it's your turn.
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: michaeljb on January 28, 2013, 01:17:33 pm
Qvist, looks like it's your turn at the moment.
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: Qvist on January 28, 2013, 05:30:41 pm
Thanks for the reminder.
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux
Post by: michaeljb on January 28, 2013, 07:57:56 pm
Qvist, back to you again!  :)
Title: Re: Agricola at Boite à Jeux (Round 4, Qvist's first Action)
Post by: Qvist on January 29, 2013, 03:42:50 am
michaeljb, you're next.
Title: Re: Agricola (Qvist)
Post by: michaeljb on January 29, 2013, 04:02:54 am
mith's up
Title: Re: Agricola (Qvist)
Post by: michaeljb on January 29, 2013, 02:34:52 pm
Qvist's turn (should I post every time?)
Title: Re: Agricola (Qvist)
Post by: Qvist on January 29, 2013, 02:43:34 pm
It would be best, yeah, but I could try to check regularly, sorry.
It's your turn, michaeljb.
Title: Re: Agricola (michaeljb)
Post by: michaeljb on January 29, 2013, 03:20:44 pm
Well you took the action I wanted, so now I have to think about it for a bit ;)

Too bad BaJ doesn't have more configurable notifications. (and if they do, too bad I haven't come across them :P)
Title: Re: Agricola (mith)
Post by: michaeljb on January 29, 2013, 04:00:18 pm
I wanted 3 Wood, but I guess 2 will have to do.

mith's Action, then we're into our first harvest.
Title: Re: Agricola (mith)
Post by: mith on January 29, 2013, 04:27:34 pm
Qvist is up.
Title: Re: Agricola (mith)
Post by: Qvist on January 29, 2013, 04:30:17 pm
My family is still alive. michaeljb, you're next.
Title: Re: Agricola (mith - harvest)
Post by: michaeljb on January 29, 2013, 04:31:31 pm
I'm pretty jealous of Traveling Salesman now. Don't think I've played with it before now.

Time for mith's family to munch on mutton.
Title: Re: Agricola (mith)
Post by: michaeljb on January 29, 2013, 04:35:55 pm
We all made it through the harvest. Huzzah!
Title: Re: Agricola (Qvist)
Post by: mith on January 29, 2013, 04:38:13 pm
Back to Qvist again.

I'm pretty jealous of all that reed...
Title: Re: Agricola (Qvist)
Post by: Qvist on January 29, 2013, 05:10:35 pm
What is the difference between the first fireplace and the second one, and what is the difference between the third and the fourth one?
Title: Re: Agricola (Qvist)
Post by: Insomniac on January 29, 2013, 05:16:02 pm
What is the difference between the first fireplace and the second one, and what is the difference between the third and the fourth one?

Cost the first is cheaper then the second the third cheaper then the fourth. Other than that they are identical, its just about who gets their first gets the best deal.
Title: Re: Agricola (Qvist)
Post by: Qvist on January 29, 2013, 05:24:22 pm
Ah ok, but they are functional identical. Because I couldn't find any difference between those. Thanks.

michaeljb, you're next.
Title: Re: Agricola (mith)
Post by: michaeljb on January 30, 2013, 05:02:43 pm
moar wood

mith's up
Title: Re: Agricola (Qvist)
Post by: mith on January 30, 2013, 05:27:25 pm
Qvist's turn.
Title: Re: Agricola (Qvist)
Post by: Qvist on January 31, 2013, 04:14:50 am
(http://i.qkme.me/3ssmex.jpg)

michaeljb, you're next.
Title: Re: Agricola (mith)
Post by: michaeljb on January 31, 2013, 12:48:37 pm
haha that's how the first game tends to go...my wife and I didn't even get the rules right the first game, we both ended with negative points.

mith's up
Title: Re: Agricola (mith)
Post by: mith on January 31, 2013, 02:23:11 pm
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I (Qvist)
Post by: michaeljb on January 31, 2013, 02:42:11 pm
Guess I can stop debating whether it'd be worth it to aggressively deny you guys Reed :P
Title: Re: Agricola I (mith)
Post by: michaeljb on January 31, 2013, 03:23:38 pm
Wait, looking at the game now, it's saying it's mith's turn, but it does show the first family member on the Reed space...is it waiting on you to press "End of Turn"?
Title: Re: Agricola I (mith)
Post by: mith on January 31, 2013, 06:02:30 pm
Oops, yeah, forgot to confirm.
Title: Re: Agricola I (mith)
Post by: michaeljb on January 31, 2013, 08:58:56 pm
mith, back around to you again. And now my hut is twice the size! muahahaha
Title: Re: Agricola I (mith)
Post by: mith on February 01, 2013, 11:29:55 am
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I (mith)
Post by: Qvist on February 01, 2013, 11:34:28 am
michaeljb, you're next. And this is probably the last move this week as I'm V/LA this weekend. Maybe I can make a move, but I can't promise. Sorry.
Title: Re: Agricola I (mith)
Post by: michaeljb on February 01, 2013, 03:27:46 pm
mith, your turn now. Harvest at the end of this round!
Title: Re: Agricola I (mith)
Post by: mith on February 01, 2013, 03:36:08 pm
Back to Qvist...

I had a plan at some point, but I have forgotten what it was.
Title: Re: Agricola I (Qvist)
Post by: michaeljb on February 01, 2013, 05:06:29 pm
I had a plan at some point, but I have forgotten what it was.

Yeah, it'd be nice if the site had a place to keep notes for yourself. I've just kept notes in a file on my computer.
Title: Re: Agricola I (Qvist)
Post by: Qvist on February 03, 2013, 05:24:05 pm
michaeljb, your turn.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 03, 2013, 07:05:53 pm
mith's turn
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 01:00:42 am
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 04, 2013, 03:55:26 am
michaeljb's turn.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 11:42:30 am
mith
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 12:03:24 pm
Qvist.

(Mmm, lambchops.)
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 04, 2013, 12:13:50 pm
michaeljb's turn.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 12:31:07 pm
Back to Qvist before michaeljb can post here!
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 01:19:17 pm
inb4 Qvist
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 04, 2013, 01:21:12 pm
Damn, I just finished my turn.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 01:26:40 pm
haha well after mith took his turn and posted before I posted, I had to do the same :P
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 03:13:37 pm
Back to Qvist again...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 04, 2013, 03:29:28 pm
... and back to michaeljb
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 03:34:25 pm
wooo four actions in a row

back to mith
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 03:38:51 pm
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 03:48:11 pm
mith
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 04, 2013, 03:48:46 pm
michaeljb...

How much does a new family member cost? I can't see the price anywhere.

Edit: Wow, you're fast.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Watno on February 04, 2013, 03:51:27 pm
free, but you need as room and you need to feed him later.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 03:52:06 pm
haha I was ready for it :)

For a new family member, you need room in your hut/house through the room building action. Each new family member needs to be fed 2 food at the harvest (Just 1 if that member hasn't taken an action yet, like my new family member from round 7)

Apart from having room and being able to feed it, a new family member doesn't cost anything. (and later there will be an action called "family growth even without room," but it doesn't let you take a minor improvement)

edit: this is the long-winded version of Watno said :P
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 04, 2013, 03:59:25 pm
Ah, oh no, right. If I would have remembered that, I think I would have played differently. Oh well, first game...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 04:02:03 pm
Yeah, there's a lot to take in for your first game. Next game will be better  :)

In other news, we're all out of the negative! Good work everyone.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 04:02:21 pm
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 04:10:53 pm
mith
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 04:17:28 pm
Back to michaeljb this time.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 04:20:36 pm
And now Qvist.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 04:24:54 pm
And again...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 04:38:36 pm
mith
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 04:39:01 pm
Qvist.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 04, 2013, 04:54:56 pm
michaeljb...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 05:39:15 pm
mith...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 05:43:32 pm
michaeljb for two in a row...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 05:47:30 pm
And back to mith
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 05:50:44 pm
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 06:04:11 pm
Qvist again.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 06:20:43 pm
>Want stone and plowed field
>blocked by Qvist last time I wanted field, so I'll take field now
>both 2 stones spaces taken consecutively
>frustration and regret

haha this is a stressful game
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 04, 2013, 06:21:45 pm
>Want stone and plowed field
>blocked by Qvist last time I wanted field, so I'll take field now
>both 2 stones spaces taken consecutively
>frustration and regret

haha this is a stressful game

So, I guess I'm doing not so bad.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 04, 2013, 06:25:48 pm
Guess I'll just go fishin

mith...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 04, 2013, 07:13:31 pm
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 05, 2013, 01:54:47 pm
harvest time for mith...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 05, 2013, 03:07:25 pm
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 05, 2013, 04:25:57 pm
Back to Qvist again for round 12...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 05, 2013, 05:58:57 pm
Back to michaeljb.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 05, 2013, 07:03:41 pm
And on to mith
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 05, 2013, 07:31:34 pm
Moooo.

I mean, Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 05, 2013, 07:34:42 pm
michaeljb...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 05, 2013, 08:03:59 pm
mith
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 05, 2013, 08:40:22 pm
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 05, 2013, 09:11:12 pm
grow all the grain

mith...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 05, 2013, 09:24:36 pm
Qvist...

I'm more of a meat and potatoes more meat kinda guy...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 06, 2013, 03:47:29 am
michaeljb...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 06, 2013, 01:36:25 pm
mith...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 06, 2013, 02:19:26 pm
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 06, 2013, 02:31:20 pm
Back to michaeljb.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 06, 2013, 02:33:13 pm
Back to mith.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 06, 2013, 03:36:50 pm
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 06, 2013, 04:25:23 pm
michaeljb...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 06, 2013, 04:47:28 pm
oink oink

mith...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 06, 2013, 05:01:15 pm
Qvist... michaeljb...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 06, 2013, 05:07:15 pm
harvest time

mith...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 06, 2013, 05:11:57 pm
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 06, 2013, 05:22:07 pm
mith again
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 06, 2013, 05:40:48 pm
Qvist...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 06, 2013, 06:34:27 pm
michaeljb
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 06, 2013, 06:39:36 pm
mith
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 06, 2013, 06:55:27 pm
Qvist's last action...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 06, 2013, 06:57:29 pm
Wow, Hide Farmer + Constable, nice combo
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 06, 2013, 07:13:39 pm
Ok, game over for me. Thanks for this. gg
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 06, 2013, 07:14:39 pm
What'd you think of it, for a first game?
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 06, 2013, 07:14:48 pm
I have to say the strategy is really hard to evaluate because the scoring is ... strange.
Also, I have to say that I don't get the hype about it yet, maybe you have to play it multiple times to love it. I don't know.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: Qvist on February 06, 2013, 07:21:05 pm
Also, I have a sort of love and hate relationship to Worker Placement games so far.
I don't like Stone Age that much, but I love Speicherstadt for example.
Just putting in Workers to get a reward don't appeal to me that much. It has to have some sort of twist.
Let's look at Lords of Waterdeep for example. I don't get why it has such a hype. Only because of its theme.
For me it seems like a Worker Placement game in its simplest, most boring version. I haven't played it yet, but seen many reviews and playthroughs and it doesn't appeal to me.
Agricola has a twist because it has cards and a board separate to the one where you put your workers in.
And building a farm is a nice theme. But I can't explain it yet, it wasn't that much fun yet. I have to think about it.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 06, 2013, 07:21:48 pm
Wow, Hide Farmer + Constable, nice combo

And Mendicant, just in case... Back to you...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 06, 2013, 07:28:26 pm
-.-

Well I don't think I can catch you, but at least I got to 40.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 06, 2013, 07:30:27 pm
Last action for you...
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 06, 2013, 07:33:30 pm
and last for you
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 06, 2013, 07:38:25 pm
Qvist, just have to feed your family one last time. And even if you don't ever play it again, thanks for giving it a shot!
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 06, 2013, 07:39:31 pm
I'm a little confused by this being separated into separate actions, really. I hope it's not going to just assume I want to eat 10 food.
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: mith on February 06, 2013, 07:51:26 pm
Thanks for the game, guys. :)
Title: Re: Agricola I
Post by: michaeljb on February 06, 2013, 07:55:58 pm
gg