Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: GeoLib on August 24, 2012, 06:51:34 pm
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I realize that there is already a post answering this question on ds, but I wanted to solicit the opinions of the f.ds community about my particular situation. I was introduced to Dominion by my sister and her boyfriend, who now have Base, Prosperity, and Seaside. I have another friend who has Base. I currently don't own any sets. I want to get one, as I'm going off to college and won't have access either Sister or Friend while there. I believe there will be people there with Base. I want to get a set that will add to the experience when I mix it with the others, and not a duplicate of the ones I could already play with when I come back home. However, if none are available, I would like to be able to play with it on it's own.
I think this leaves me with a few options:
Buy Intrigue
Buy Hinterlands, Cornucopia, or Dark Ages (!) and buy the treasure and victory cards separately.
Speaking of which, is the "base cards set" actually available? I'm looking on the RGG site, and it seems they haven't released it yet. Well maybe that makes my decision really easy.
Thoughts?
More info about me:
I've played a couple hundred games on Iso (can't look exactly now b/c CR is down)
I'm level 15
The people I'll be playing with IRL are likely not going to have the same level as experience as me.
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Well, Intrigue's a safe bet. But, if you can find the Base cards, then I'd lean towards Hinterlands. Cornucopia is small and would offer very little replay value on its own. And from what I've heard, Dark Ages cards are quite complex. People say that Hinterlands cards are complex too, but I never really found that to be the case. And, Hinterlands has its share of simple cards too. So, I'd go with Hinterlands if you find the Base Cards.
You didn't mention Alchemy and you actually could go that route with the Base Cards, but again, it would have little replay value on its own. (And would be very strange! - Minimum of 8 Potion-cost cards!)
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Well, Intrigue's a safe bet. But, if you can find the Base cards, then I'd lean towards Hinterlands. Cornucopia is small and would offer very little replay value on its own. And from what I've heard, Dark Ages cards are quite complex. People say that Hinterlands cards are complex too, but I never really found that to be the case. And, Hinterlands has its share of simple cards too. So, I'd go with Hinterlands if you find the Base Cards.
You didn't mention Alchemy and you actually could go that route with the Base Cards, but again, it would have little replay value on its own. (And would be very strange! - Minimum of 8 Potion-cost cards!)
What he said. Hinterlands was originally meant to be a standalone, so if your friends already have Intrigue, that + Base Cards would be your best bet. And Base Cards are available on Amazon, if nowhere else.
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Yeah. I left out alchemy because on it's own you'd just have to go potion every game, and it's a small set so less replayability. Is cornucopia small too? As for the complexity thing, I personally don't mind complex. I really enjoy iso games with hinterlands cards, especially border village. It's possible that my opponents might not feel the same way though.
I don't know anyone who has intrigue so would that be better? I was mostly asking because I was wondering which set, X, would make games with:
Just X
Base + X
Base + Prosperity + Seaside + X
most fun. It sounds like hinterlands or intrigue are my best bets, but I'm just so tempted to grab Dark Ages
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Yeah. I left out alchemy because on it's own you'd just have to go potion every game, and it's a small set so less replayability. Is cornucopia small too? As for the complexity thing, I personally don't mind complex. I really enjoy iso games with hinterlands cards, especially border village. It's possible that my opponents might not feel the same way though.
I don't know anyone who has intrigue so would that be better? I was mostly asking because I was wondering which set, X, would make games with:
Just X
Base + X
Base + Prosperity + Seaside + X
most fun. It sounds like hinterlands or intrigue are my best bets, but I'm just so tempted to grab Dark Ages
Personally, Intrigue doesn't excite me much on its own. I would go either Base Cards and Hinterlands or Dark Ages. Dark Ages is also an extra large set, so you will probably get more replay value out of it. And, you can find the Base Cards that sell Dominion online.
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I just got Dark Ages and so far it is really fun. It doesn't come with the base stuff for actually playing though. Can you afford to get Intrigue and Dark Ages?
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I just got Dark Ages and so far it is really fun. It doesn't come with the base stuff for actually playing though. Can you afford to get Intrigue and Dark Ages?
Haha! I really want to be able to. That would be awesome. It would have to win a fierce battle against myself to justify buying two sets. Maybe though... Now I'm infected with this idea
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boardsandbits.com (http://www.boardsandbits.com) has all the sets, including the base cards, and free shipping if you buy enough. So now you've been infected with the idea of getting all the sets, which is what I recommend ;D
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boardsandbits.com (http://www.boardsandbits.com) has all the sets, including the base cards, and free shipping if you buy enough. So now you've been infected with the idea of getting all the sets, which is what I recommend ;D
You, sir, are an asshole >:( ;D.
Unfortunately, that's definitely not in my price range, and I'll be schlepping back and forth across the country for the next four years, so it's not very practical. I'll probably get all of the expansions eventually though. Thank you for showing me boards and bits. Some of their prices are cheaper than amazon, but I think amazon's include shipping. How much do they charge for shipping if I don't get $125 of stuff? I can't find it anywhere on their site...
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http://www.boardsandbits.com/international_orders.php
Not the most intuitive place to look, and they refer you to USPS.
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I've been teaching people how to playd Dominion for a long time irl, and I have found that base set is obviously the best set to teach on. I have also found that beginners love intrigue for its simplicity, but get kinda lost in hinterlands. Also carrying 1 box around imo is much easier than two especially for backpacks etc.
That's my experience, but if the people you are playing with are already pretty experienced, don't be afraid to get hinterlands.......It's fun ;D
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You could always get the Big Box off of Amazon.
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I don't know, the big box seems pretty cheap to me. A friend of mine got it and was sent the Seaside tokens instead of the Prosperity tokens, and he got like 12 extra silver along with 2 copies of every randomizer........yeah that helps a lot ::)
The cards in the box stand up on end, so it makes it a taller box, and it's kind of hard to find stuff in it. It is still fun to play and it is cheaper....just not as professional and a little more work.
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Take DA!
Also, there was a website that sold single cards (like, you could buy 10 Graverobbers and 10 Mandarins), maybe that's an option.
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The other problem with the big box is that my sister already has Base, Prosperity, and Seaside, and I think there will be people with base at school, so most of it would be extraneous in most of the games I play. Half the time I'd just be paying 70 bucks for Alchemy...
I think I'm probably going to go with Intrigue, perhaps adding DA or Hinterlands.
I think it's going to be easier to get them on Amazon because Boards and Bits is only about $5 cheaper, and I'm sure shipping is more than that.
Thank you all for your help!
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Take DA!
Also, there was a website that sold single cards (like, you could buy 10 Graverobbers and 10 Mandarins), maybe that's an option.
Oh, and Mandarin was really your example of a card that I'd want so badly that I'd buy it on it's own?
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Take DA!
Also, there was a website that sold single cards (like, you could buy 10 Graverobbers and 10 Mandarins), maybe that's an option.
Oh, and Mandarin was really your example of a card that I'd want so badly that I'd buy it on it's own?
MAN, I'M DYING TO PLAY WITH COUNTING HOUSE.
In truth, I actually do have a certain fondness for Counting House.
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Take DA!
Also, there was a website that sold single cards (like, you could buy 10 Graverobbers and 10 Mandarins), maybe that's an option.
Oh, and Mandarin was really your example of a card that I'd want so badly that I'd buy it on it's own?
MAN, I'M DYING TO PLAY WITH COUNTING HOUSE.
In truth, I actually do have a certain fondness for Counting House.
Scout
That is the one card that every Dominion player must own.
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You said that people you will likely play with will generally not have the same level of experience as you - personally in that situation I would avoid getting Intrigue. There are many cards in that set that I would imagine new players probably won't enjoy (although like every set there are some good ones too). In particular though, in Intrigue there are many cards where you have choices of which benefit to receive, and at the end of your turn when you are counting your available treasure for instance, it might not be easy for a new player to keep track.
I would say that Seaside would be the best expansion to get for playing with new players, there are many cards that are simpler to keep track of or just fun in there, but that's just my opinion. It was, until buying Dark Ages today, the only expansion I owned and wanted, so I am maybe a bit biased, but I have had success playing it with new players.
Ultimately though I would advise getting the basic (Dominion) set because sure, it may be a bit redundant since others are likely to have it too, but when you introduce new people to the game using only your own cards, it's always great to have Dominion available. If you were to go for Dominion, you could always then pair it with either of the smaller sets, Cornucopia or Alchemy, saving a bit of money and still making sure you have sets that other Dominion players you meet are perhaps less likely to own; with Dominion around you have 25 kingdom cards to augment a smaller set and wouldn't have such a problem of too little variety that you might have with just Alchemy and the Base cards.
Oh and regarding the question of whether Cornucopia is a small set - you can check out all the sets in this very site (http://dominionstrategy.com/card-lists/ and Dark Ages has its own recent post but is not yet in this list)
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Take DA!
Also, there was a website that sold single cards (like, you could buy 10 Graverobbers and 10 Mandarins), maybe that's an option.
Oh, and Mandarin was really your example of a card that I'd want so badly that I'd buy it on it's own?
MAN, I'M DYING TO PLAY WITH COUNTING HOUSE.
In truth, I actually do have a certain fondness for Counting House.
Scout
That is the one card that every Dominion player must own.
I think scout jokes have replaced Goko/Isotropic's demise as the thing that every thread will end up being about...
Has Donald admitted anywhere that the card just kind of sucks?
The other advantage to getting just Intrigue is that I might get a board with a high enough concentration of victory dual types that I could make a working scout combo! Ok. The decision has basically been made for me.
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For what it's worth I quite like Scout and actually would consider buying it separately from Intrigue!
EDIT: and now I can combo Dame Josephine with it.
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You said that people you will likely play with will generally not have the same level of experience as you - personally in that situation I would avoid getting Intrigue. There are many cards in that set that I would imagine new players probably won't enjoy (although like every set there are some good ones too). In particular though, in Intrigue there are many cards where you have choices of which benefit to receive, and at the end of your turn when you are counting your available treasure for instance, it might not be easy for a new player to keep track.
I would say that Seaside would be the best expansion to get for playing with new players, there are many cards that are simpler to keep track of or just fun in there, but that's just my opinion. It was, until buying Dark Ages today, the only expansion I owned and wanted, so I am maybe a bit biased, but I have had success playing it with new players.
Ultimately though I would advise getting the basic (Dominion) set because sure, it may be a bit redundant since others are likely to have it too, but when you introduce new people to the game using only your own cards, it's always great to have Dominion available. If you were to go for Dominion, you could always then pair it with either of the smaller sets, Cornucopia or Alchemy, saving a bit of money and still making sure you have sets that other Dominion players you meet are perhaps less likely to own; with Dominion around you have 25 kingdom cards to augment a smaller set and wouldn't have such a problem of too little variety that you might have with just Alchemy and the Base cards.
Oh and regarding the question of whether Cornucopia is a small set - you can check out all the sets in this very site (http://dominionstrategy.com/card-lists/ and Dark Ages has its own recent post but is not yet in this list)
I'm not sure I'm going to be playing with new players, just (probably) not ones who've been playing on iso almost every day for the last month. Anyway, I think Intrigue makes the most sense economically because it's only ~$15 more than the "base cards" set, and I need those either way. It's basically 25 kingdom cards for $15. What a steal! I might get another set as well.
As for Seaside, I think it's one of my favorites as well, but the fact that my sister already owns it makes it seem like sort of a silly choice. I also agree that learning on Base is probably best, but it'll be around if I need to teach newbies.
I actually had already found the "All Cards" article, I just forgot that Cornucopia was small because I've never played it IRL, just on Iso.
Thank you all for your help and advice!
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You said that people you will likely play with will generally not have the same level of experience as you - personally in that situation I would avoid getting Intrigue. There are many cards in that set that I would imagine new players probably won't enjoy (although like every set there are some good ones too). In particular though, in Intrigue there are many cards where you have choices of which benefit to receive, and at the end of your turn when you are counting your available treasure for instance, it might not be easy for a new player to keep track.
I would say that Seaside would be the best expansion to get for playing with new players, there are many cards that are simpler to keep track of or just fun in there, but that's just my opinion. It was, until buying Dark Ages today, the only expansion I owned and wanted, so I am maybe a bit biased, but I have had success playing it with new players.
Ultimately though I would advise getting the basic (Dominion) set because sure, it may be a bit redundant since others are likely to have it too, but when you introduce new people to the game using only your own cards, it's always great to have Dominion available. If you were to go for Dominion, you could always then pair it with either of the smaller sets, Cornucopia or Alchemy, saving a bit of money and still making sure you have sets that other Dominion players you meet are perhaps less likely to own; with Dominion around you have 25 kingdom cards to augment a smaller set and wouldn't have such a problem of too little variety that you might have with just Alchemy and the Base cards.
Oh and regarding the question of whether Cornucopia is a small set - you can check out all the sets in this very site (http://dominionstrategy.com/card-lists/ and Dark Ages has its own recent post but is not yet in this list)
I'm not sure I'm going to be playing with new players, just (probably) not ones who've been playing on iso almost every day for the last month. Anyway, I think Intrigue makes the most sense economically because it's only ~$15 more than the "base cards" set, and I need those either way. It's basically 25 kingdom cards for $15. What a steal! I might get another set as well.
As for Seaside, I think it's one of my favorites as well, but the fact that my sister already owns it makes it seem like sort of a silly choice. I also agree that learning on Base is probably best, but it'll be around if I need to teach newbies.
I actually had already found the "All Cards" article, I just forgot that Cornucopia was small because I've never played it IRL, just on Iso.
Thank you all for your help and advice!
Good luck with your purchase, but for what it is worth, I will say that Intrigue is my least favorite set. And, here is why. Saboteur--weak and swingy card. Torturer--setting up a chain of these will likely mean you won't have any friends on campus (note: I don't mind Torturer chains), Wishing Well (requires too much memorization of one's deck), Minion--not a horrible card, but an annoying attack, Great Halls-generally a worthless card but it does give one VP, Conspirator--a fun card, but I don't think aside from Wishing Well and Great Hall and Mining Village, I don't think there is much chance for this to shine Shanty Town--probably the worst village, not counting Ruined Village or Necropolis, and hey, you start the game with Necropolis in DA games Mining Village--don't get me wrong, this is a great card, but it is not very newbie friendly because no one wants to sacrifice it. This is probably my second favorite village, but it took me a while to figure out how to play it. Secret Chamber is also in this set, and that card took me forever to wrap my head around, it just slows games down a lot, especially irl. I will note that I am liking SC more these days, and I think it is underestimated a lot of times.
Oh, and Scout. No explanation needed
But, there are some highlights. Steward is one. Swindler, if you don't mind the attack. And, if you do like attacks as mentioned above there is Torturer and Minion. Did I mention that this set is very attack heavy. There are Nobles and Harems which I don't have an opinion on one way or another, but some people like them. Masquerade is in there. Duke is in there, but every set has an alternate VP card. There is also Bridge which is a fun card. Tribute is also in the set which has nice synergy with all the dual type cards.
I'm sure there are some other good cards in the set, but those are just my two cents. And, really, I don't think newer players will be fond of the heaviness of the attacks too much. I think Intrigue is the worst set when it comes to attacks.
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Good luck with your purchase, but for what it is worth, I will say that Intrigue is my least favorite set. And, here is why. Saboteur--weak and swingy card. Torturer--setting up a chain of these will likely mean you won't have any friends on campus (note: I don't mind Torturer chains), Wishing Well (requires too much memorization of one's deck), Minion--not a horrible card, but an annoying attack, Great Halls-generally a worthless card but it does give one VP, Conspirator--a fun card, but I don't think aside from Wishing Well and Great Hall and Mining Village, I don't think there is much chance for this to shine Shanty Town--probably the worst village, not counting Ruined Village or Necropolis, and hey, you start the game with Necropolis in DA games Mining Village--don't get me wrong, this is a great card, but it is not very newbie friendly because no one wants to sacrifice it. This is probably my second favorite village, but it took me a while to figure out how to play it. Secret Chamber is also in this set, and that card took me forever to wrap my head around, it just slows games down a lot, especially irl. I will note that I am liking SC more these days, and I think it is underestimated a lot of times.
Oh, and Scout. No explanation needed
But, there are some highlights. Steward is one. Swindler, if you don't mind the attack. And, if you do like attacks as mentioned above there is Torturer and Minion. Did I mention that this set is very attack heavy. There are Nobles and Harems which I don't have an opinion on one way or another, but some people like them. Masquerade is in there. Duke is in there, but every set has an alternate VP card. There is also Bridge which is a fun card. Tribute is also in the set which has nice synergy with all the dual type cards.
I'm sure there are some other good cards in the set, but those are just my two cents. And, really, I don't think newer players will be fond of the heaviness of the attacks too much. I think Intrigue is the worst set when it comes to attacks.
Why would you call Saboteur swingy and then be OK with Swindler? :P Saboteur is just weak except in exceptional circumstances.
You shouldn't think of Shanty Town the same way as other Villages. If you try to use it in place of a regular Village, you're gonna have a bad time. But ST shines in other ways. For example, if you set up a deck with mostly cantrips and very few terminals, ST is like a cheap Lab.
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Good luck with your purchase, but for what it is worth, I will say that Intrigue is my least favorite set. And, here is why. Saboteur--weak and swingy card. Torturer--setting up a chain of these will likely mean you won't have any friends on campus (note: I don't mind Torturer chains), Wishing Well (requires too much memorization of one's deck), Minion--not a horrible card, but an annoying attack, Great Halls-generally a worthless card but it does give one VP, Conspirator--a fun card, but I don't think aside from Wishing Well and Great Hall and Mining Village, I don't think there is much chance for this to shine Shanty Town--probably the worst village, not counting Ruined Village or Necropolis, and hey, you start the game with Necropolis in DA games Mining Village--don't get me wrong, this is a great card, but it is not very newbie friendly because no one wants to sacrifice it. This is probably my second favorite village, but it took me a while to figure out how to play it. Secret Chamber is also in this set, and that card took me forever to wrap my head around, it just slows games down a lot, especially irl. I will note that I am liking SC more these days, and I think it is underestimated a lot of times.
Oh, and Scout. No explanation needed
But, there are some highlights. Steward is one. Swindler, if you don't mind the attack. And, if you do like attacks as mentioned above there is Torturer and Minion. Did I mention that this set is very attack heavy. There are Nobles and Harems which I don't have an opinion on one way or another, but some people like them. Masquerade is in there. Duke is in there, but every set has an alternate VP card. There is also Bridge which is a fun card. Tribute is also in the set which has nice synergy with all the dual type cards.
I'm sure there are some other good cards in the set, but those are just my two cents. And, really, I don't think newer players will be fond of the heaviness of the attacks too much. I think Intrigue is the worst set when it comes to attacks.
Why would you call Saboteur swingy and then be OK with Swindler? :P Saboteur is just weak except in exceptional circumstances.
You shouldn't think of Shanty Town the same way as other Villages. If you try to use it in place of a regular Village, you're gonna have a bad time. But ST shines in other ways. For example, if you set up a deck with mostly cantrips and very few terminals, ST is like a cheap Lab.
Oh, I know about setting up Shanty Town like a cheap lab, it's just usually hard to pull off. I'm saying ST isn't that strong of a card usually. You are right that Swindler is swingy. One player hits copper, the other hits estates. But, it just feels worse when you pay $5 for a Sab which doesn't yield any $ for you and you hit a silver while your opponent hits your Province.
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I think scout jokes have replaced Goko/Isotropic's demise as the thing that every thread will end up being about...
Has Donald admitted anywhere that the card just kind of sucks?
More or less, yes:
Scout however is one of the five cards I added to Intrigue when it turned out they wanted 25-card expansions rather than 20-card ones. It did not previously exist; I made it specifically to go with the victory cards in Intrigue.
Scout tends to be weak outside of all-Intrigue games and well you get better at these things as you go along. Crossroads is not weak outside of all-Hinterlands games; there you go.
I still think Thief is weaker, to be honest- though I admit that is partially because of my bias toward 2p and engine games, and a general allergy towards ranking non-terminals last, no matter how ineffective. I've heard tales of Thief being useful in multiplayer but have never witnessed it myself- the canonical counterexample I give was a 3p game where both my opponents bought Thief, I went Vault-BM, and won big (6 Provinces to less) despite losing four Golds.
In addition to the Intrigue combos, Scout can sometimes be useful with Alchemy, too: Scrying Pool and Vineyard in particular are good partners. But that's more or less it.
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@Beyond Awesome
Regarding your beginners points. I'm hoping that I'll be able to teach some people to play pretty well. Winning is fun, but beating the crap out of newbs just makes you feel like a dick after a while...
Oh well. I think I'm going to actually go there, settle in, and then order Dominion. Shocking, I know. Haha. Of course I'm leaving to live on the other side of the country and the thing I'm most focused on is "what board games do I need?" ::)
I think scout jokes have replaced Goko/Isotropic's demise as the thing that every thread will end up being about...
Has Donald admitted anywhere that the card just kind of sucks?
More or less, yes:
Scout however is one of the five cards I added to Intrigue when it turned out they wanted 25-card expansions rather than 20-card ones. It did not previously exist; I made it specifically to go with the victory cards in Intrigue.
Scout tends to be weak outside of all-Intrigue games and well you get better at these things as you go along. Crossroads is not weak outside of all-Hinterlands games; there you go.
I still think Thief is weaker, to be honest- though I admit that is partially because of my bias toward 2p and engine games, and a general allergy towards ranking non-terminals last, no matter how ineffective. I've heard tales of Thief being useful in multiplayer but have never witnessed it myself- the canonical counterexample I give was a 3p game where both my opponents bought Thief, I went Vault-BM, and won big (6 Provinces to less) despite losing four Golds.
In addition to the Intrigue combos, Scout can sometimes be useful with Alchemy, too: Scrying Pool and Vineyard in particular are good partners. But that's more or less it.
I don't know... I just played 2p against my stupid little iTouch app and cherry-picked a set such that I trashed all of his treasure with throne room-thief-spy shenanigans. Of course I could have just won some other way too...
The reason AIs are good to have is that you don't feel like a dick screwing with them like this
Seriously though, I think thief generally sucks, but having it on the board can be a disincentive to heavy trashing, treasure-based strategies. Although I feel like heavy trashing probably favors engines anyway.
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Something that helps the Saboteur/Torturer thing is to do a veto for each player similar to isotropic. I therefore rarely play with those cards because they end up being vetoed.
As for the choice cards, IMO they are easier to keep track of than durations in seaside. I think intrigue is a good choice.
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Scout/Crossroads is actually a pretty decent combo, especially if you're going for alt VP.
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Scout/Crossroads is actually a pretty decent combo, especially if you're going for alt VP.
I know there are scout combos, I've just never been able to pull one off (I don't think I've even gotten the combo cards in the same game), and if I get intrigue I might have a chance to win with scout!
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Scout/Crossroads is actually a pretty decent combo, especially if you're going for alt VP.
I know there are scout combos, I've just never been able to pull one off (I don't think I've even gotten the combo cards in the same game), and if I get intrigue I might have a chance to win with scout!
I mean, even Scout/Baron has some merit.
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No idea why there is so much hate for Intrigue in this thread. I think it is a good set and would fit in perfectly with what the OP is looking for. It can be played standalone, it isn't too daunting for newbies and it slots in nicely with what his sister owns.
Every criticism of Intrigue could be levelled equally hard at Hinterlands. Torturer chains can be annoying, but they aren't as soul destroying as IGG games. Saboteur is terrible, but Hinterlands probably has a higher density of toilet with Duchess, Mandarin and Develop. People knock Wishing Well and Great Hall, but to be honest I have actually found those two cards to be favourites with new players when I introduce them to the game.