Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Puzzles and Challenges => Topic started by: Jorbles on May 17, 2012, 01:34:56 pm
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This might be easy, but I've enjoyed thinking about it so I thought I would share.
You and your opponent are playing a variant of Dominion in which instead of starting with the usual 7 Coppers and 3 Estates you will each choose a Kingdom card and gain 10 of it to start. You cannot choose any VP cards. Since you each will have all of a Kingdom card in your deck you are considering the game to be 2 piles depleted at the start. Aside from this setup the Kingdom will have no cards in it except all basic cards, including Alchemy and Prosperity basic cards (though you may not need them for this puzzle). Estates, Duchies, Provinces, Coppers, Silvers, Golds, Curses, Potion, Colony and Platinum.
Your opponent is first player and chooses his deck to be all Expands. You then choose your deck.
Your opponent opens by Expanding one of his Expands into a Province. He states that he intends to run out the Province pile to win. His first priority for the rest of the game will be to Expand one of his Expands into a Province if possible. If he is unable to do that and he is ahead he will Expand one of his Provinces into a Province. If he is unable to Expand an Expand into a Province and he is behind or taking the last Province would end the game with him losing he will Expand one of his Provinces into a Colony. If he can do none of those things he will do nothing.
I can think of four strategies that will beat this strategy. How do you win? And for bonus points: How do you win in a single turn? (there are two ways I can think of)
Followup puzzle: if you were first player instead of second player, what strategies could you choose that would be impossible for your opponent to beat?
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Easy one:
Grand Market ends in one turn by emptying Estates.
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Or Familiar also ends it in one turn, by feeding him all 10 Curses.
Both my and TINAS's answers are also guaranteed wins for Player 1.
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Also, Ironworks for all the Islands or Great Halls
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Also, Ironworks for all the Islands
Other kingdom cards are banned.
However City is probably capable enough of pulling off a Colony-based megaturn before the Expand player empties the Provinces and Fool's Gold can probably afford a Colony every single turn to beat the Provinces.
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Also, Ironworks for all the Islands
Other kingdom cards are banned.
However City is probably capable enough of pulling off a Colony-based megaturn before the Expand player empties the Provinces and Fool's Gold can probably afford a Colony every single turn to beat the Provinces.
I was going to suggest City / Platinum into Colonies. You probably don't even have to do a mega turn:
1. $10 -> Platinum
2. $15 -> Platinum + Gold
3. $26 -> 2 Colonies
4. $26 -> 2 Colonies
5. $26 -> 2 Colonies
I don't think it's very likely that this engine will miss before hitting 6 Colonies, at which point you'll be at 60 points. Even if you stall there, your opponent maxes out at 2 Colonies and 6 Provinces = 56 points. Actually, I don't think that's even possible, since buying out the Provinces or Colonies will end the game. So, this seems like a pretty guaranteed win.
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Or Familiar also ends it in one turn, by feeding him all 10 Curses.
Both my and TINAS's answers are also guaranteed wins for Player 1.
They are also both guaranteed wins for player 2 on Turn 1.
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Good puzzle, BTW. Though, I don't see why you have to restrict alternate VP cards, since I don't think selecting any of them will win you the game.
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Good puzzle, BTW. Though, I don't see why you have to restrict alternate VP cards, since I don't think selecting any of them will win you the game.
If I had to guess - 10 Harems would be tough to beat.
*edit* for inappropriate apostrophe
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Governor might work. On turn 1, you add eight Golds to your deck while dumping eight useless Silvers into your opponent's. That's probably enough, with Governor's card draw, to get you to 6 Colonies before the Provinces are all gone. Obviously, you never want to use the remodel option.
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I think that Masquerade might work here. If your opponent has such strict play rules, eventually he will have too many Masquerades to do anything, right? I don't know if it is fast enough, but that maybe could work.
Might 10 Minions outlast the Expands?
Just speculation here.
Edit: Spoiler tags.
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Would Cache come with the 2 coppers each?, or just the 10 caches. I'm not a simulation guru, but I suspect that a deck full of 10 caches would beat an expand solution as well
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I think that Masquerade might work here. If your opponent has such strict play rules, eventually he will have too many Masquerades to do anything, right? I don't know if it is fast enough, but that maybe could work.
Might 10 Minions outlast the Expands?
Just speculation here.
Edit: Spoiler tags.
Haha, I just thought of both Minions and Masquerades right before reading your post. I think Minion is like a sure win, but I'm guessing Masquerades is not likely going to win it for you, since essentially you'd just be trying to steal your opponent's strategy.
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What about 10 Possesesions? 8)
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I was to say Governor :(
10 Ventures would get Province each turn, but that would be only enough for tie only. If you bought a Platinum, however, it would probably be good for Colony a turn. 10 Stashes?
10 Hoards would be awesome, right?
Also, does this count?
IGG, and he gets 10 Curses and game ends! \o/
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What about 10 Possesesions? 8)
I think this would probably work! If you can expand the Provinces into Colonies, you get the better deal!
I was to say Governor :(
10 Ventures would get Province each turn, but that would be only enough for tie only. If you bought a Platinum, however, it would probably be good for Colony a turn. 10 Stashes?
10 Hoards would be awesome, right?
Also, does this count?
IGG, and he gets 10 Curses and game ends! \o/
I'm pretty sure Ventures + 1 Platinum -> Colonies would win here. Hoards = maybe?
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What about 10 Possesesions? 8)
I thought about this, but I don't think you'd do better than your opponent and from second player they'd have 1st player advantage. You can only play one Possession a turn.
Grand Market and Familiar were the two one turn wins I could think of, and City was one of the other solutions. So :D to you guys.
Would Cache come with the 2 coppers each?, or just the 10 caches. I'm not a simulation guru, but I suspect that a deck full of 10 caches would beat an expand solution as well
By the rules it would just be the Cache and I think you're right that it would be very very hard to beat. That probably counts. Unless someone simulates it and proves us wrong.
Might 10 Minions outlast the Expands?
I hadn't thought of this, but I'm pretty sure it would win. Nice one. I don't think Masquerades would be very effective in this puzzle though.
There's at least one solution that I'm sure would beat Expands out there still.
Edit: Nevermind Grujah and Schneau got it. Venture into a single Platinum was the last one I was thinking of.
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Also, does this count?
IGG, and he gets 10 Curses and game ends! \o/
No, unfortunately as you start with them in your deck so you never actually gain them. Good try though.
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Governor might work. On turn 1, you add eight Golds to your deck while dumping eight useless Silvers into your opponent's. That's probably enough, with Governor's card draw, to get you to 6 Colonies before the Provinces are all gone. Obviously, you never want to use the remodel option.
This would definitely work. I should have put in something saying that if stuff is put into his deck he'll use it as best he can to his advantage, so he could buy things with the Silvers if he drew 3 or 4 of them together, but oh well. Good plan. :)
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I went to try to simulate this puzzle, but I think I might have found a bug in Geronimoo's simulator! It won't let me use Expand as part of the starting conditions. Any other card I can get to start with 5 in hand, 5 in deck, but it is rejecting Expand as a real card name. Can someone else confirm this?
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From 1st player... regular market into platinum, followed by 8x estates on turn 2 should win.
I suspect that even bazaar -> plat -> colony / province would beat expand.
Finally, i'll leave it to someone else to prove, but 10 tournaments would almost cetainly win as 1st player, and probably by 2nd player as well. The tournament can't possibly be blocked until turn 3 (if P2 is lucky, by which time P1 should have executed a some percentage of a full prize sweep and purchased 3 provinces (1 on turn 1, and unblockable 2 on turn 2 via princess)
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I think TINAS's Fool's Gold suggestion probably works as well.
And one more idea from me. Highways, into a first turn Platinum, followed by Colonies.
I'm not sure if this works. If it does, then any cantrip with +$1 works, including Peddler, Market, Bazaar, and Treasury. Without +Buy, Highway is essentially equivalent to these.
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Edit: Nevermind Grujah and Schneau got it. Venture into a single Platinum was the last one I was thinking of.
So, you don't need Platinum for that. Copper works just as well! ;D
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@GEndoIkari
Well, in case if you have a hand of Colony - Colony - Colony - Colony - Venture, and your deck is Venture, Venture, Venture, Venture, Venture, X - X being Platinum gives you 11, Copper only 6. In other case (i.e. at least treasures) it is the same.
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I should clarify that for the followup puzzle, the original intention was that your opponent was no longer restricted to choosing Expand, the goal being to find solutions that were unbeatable. I think that only Grand Market is truly unbeatable as you can win without your opponent being able to do anything to counter. Familiar could probably be beaten by Trader.
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@GEndoIkari
Well, in case if you have a hand of Colony - Colony - Colony - Colony - Venture, and your deck is Venture, Venture, Venture, Venture, Venture, X - X being Platinum gives you 11, Copper only 6. In other case (i.e. at least treasures) it is the same.
Right, duh. Somehow I was forgetting that Venture could stall out.
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I think TINAS's Fool's Gold suggestion probably works as well.
And one more idea from me. Highways, into a first turn Platinum, followed by Colonies.
I'm not sure if this works. If it does, then any cantrip with +$1 works, including Peddler, Market, Bazaar, and Treasury. Without +Buy, Highway is essentially equivalent to these.
I think it does:
Turn 1: Plat
Turns 2-5: Colony - Guaranteed
At this point, the score should be 40 to 30 (even as player 2)
The expand player has a maximum score ceiling of 64 (expands all 4 of his provinces into colonies + buys remaining 3 provinces) - but it requires 7 more turns. Every colony or province you sneak cuts 4 or 6 points from his max score. I'm pretty confident you can pick up those 3 provinces inside those 7 turns.
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How about King's Court?
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How about King's Court?
You're silly. You may as well go with Scheme. Obviously you wouldn't win, but boy you'd be rubbing your hands together in anticipation all game long.
By the way: Talisman would be a funny play here. It wouldn't beat the Expand player, but it would win on turns as Player 2 vs. any strategy that doesn't gain VP on turn 1.
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How about King's Court?
That's like...
Like...
"I'll start with 10 Villages please! Now I have all the actions I need to crush you with! BWAHAHAHA...."
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Pearl Diver is another real power strategy. I mean...you'll be topdecking so many of them!
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Pearl Diver is another real power strategy. I mean...you'll be topdecking so many of them!
Yo Dawg, there's a meme in there somewhere, I just know it.
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Ten Tournaments is risky!
Ten Upgrades should win; becomes mono-Gold really fast, which shouldn't have a problem racing with Colonies.
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Ten Tournaments is risky!
Nah, your second turn is guaranteed.
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What's the bane for Young Witch? What's in the Black Market?
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Ten Tournaments is risky!
Ten Upgrades should win; becomes mono-Gold really fast, which shouldn't have a problem racing with Colonies.
I'm not sure about this - i bet its close
Turn 1- Upgrades into gold - Deck now 5 Golds + 5 Upgrades
Now you aren't guaranteed a colony on turn 2, although if you fail, you'll at least be able to get another gold, and then either a plat or province.