Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Variants and Fan Cards => Topic started by: Uldiniad on August 08, 2017, 10:55:29 pm
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Skip to TL;DR for images
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Check out the Tabletop Simulator version of this expansion on the Steam Workshop: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1100427659 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1100427659)
Also check the official BGG page:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/232930/pirates-life-fan-expansion-dominion (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/232930/pirates-life-fan-expansion-dominion)
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Hello there, my cousin and I really like Dominion and ended up designing our own cards for the game. We'd like to know what you think of them (constructive criticism accepted).
This set has a total of 12 new cards. They were designed when Dark Ages was released and intended to add a few new concepts, to add upon well-established concepts (example: rewarding variety like Menagerie) and to add cards that encouraged more interaction between players (e.g. Ravisher).
This set is meant to be played mixed with any of the official Dominion expansions. Many of its cards are playable on their own but shine when paired with certain cards and become impressive combo pieces.
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TL;DR:
Play them and tell us what you think!
I'll comment our set to let you know our thoughts on each card:
Astrologist
(https://i.imgur.com/0Zq2Ct4.png)
In one sentence, a delayed draw and that helps you make better decisions
Blessing
(https://i.imgur.com/ZiMfHJc.png)
We wanted to make a silly concept of gaining points instead of curses. It is in part inspired by Trader and Tunnel. Depending on the board, Cure is sometimes game warping, but in a fun way (think of Cursed Gold).
Collective Effort
(https://i.imgur.com/euRr3o6.png)
We like treasures, but we like when they allow us to do more than just buy. We wanted to reward engine/combos and so this card was born. This card can be a little scary in setups that allow for massive combos every turn.
Contribution
(https://i.imgur.com/PsVioOd.png)
Another wacky treasure. We wanted to be able to do something with the leftover actions that you don’t get to play when you run out of actions. So this came out. It has a very indirect resemblance to Talisman in that it enables to gain copies of cards faster. We like the fact that this card also sometimes made us choose between playing an action and keeping it in hand till buy phase to benefit from its effect. Somewhat a Big Money mirror to Collective Effort.
Imposter
(https://i.imgur.com/NxlCMvL.png)
As its name suggests, it copies stuff. Taking copies of attacks and copying others' actions.
Investment
(https://i.imgur.com/hojRDna.png)
We really enjoyed Duration cards. So we thought of making our own. So we sorta made a duration Tribute/Ironworks but that you get to choose the card instead of basing yourself on the randomness of the decks. Also must be noted that it becomes better on the second turn since it grants ALL its effects on both turns (including the +1 Card +1 Action).
Mermaids
(https://i.imgur.com/ZMgnkHj.png)
We wanted a strong Pawn. A Pawn that pwns. Need more cards? More actions? To pass your crap cards to other players? Or want a way to dismantle all the hope of the players with durations in play? This is your card. But watch out that you don't give your opponents too much of a lead. We found out that this card hilariously overkills Tactician...
Pirate Cove
(https://i.imgur.com/3oFlCVo.png)
We enjoy engines and long combos. So Villages are our jam. Somewhat double-edged due to its Heirloom.
Pirate
(https://i.imgur.com/EXxCF4f.png)
This card was meant to be the nastiest, most vicious yet balanced Dominion card ever to see light of day. Purely an attack. Gives no bonuses to the player except the satisfaction of seeing others suffer (a little like Torturer, but with more broken friendships). Damages both engines and big money. Be ready to say bye to your Gold and Princes ;)
Ravisher
(https://i.imgur.com/SpNWUoN.png)
I liked the idea of an Action-Thief. So we thought: why not kidnap those actions (since they’re often named after people)? And since we take hostages, why not ask for a ransom? This turned out to be a quite funny card to play. I also would like to point out I kidnapped your Bridge.
Recruitment
(https://i.imgur.com/bHStImI.png)
We wanted to base a card specifically on Cornucopia's theme of Variety Matters. Pushing that to the extreme, Anthropologist sometimes does little for you and sometimes it's a bit stronger than gold. We often struggle to use it to its full potential except in the craziest engine decks. We believe it's fairly priced given that most of the time unless you really commit, it will only give +1 action and +1 buy.
Stock Market
(https://i.imgur.com/zhDxUTj.png)
We liked a lot that Young Witch added an extra pile once in a while. I really like that it is strongly tied to a random kingdom card, but it does mean that its power is somewhat volatile.
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I'm sorry, but these kind of all seem kind of awful. Just as an example, Astrologist is basically just a Ruined Library. Sure, you can delay the card draw a while, but that doesn't really make it that much better. Most of these are also worded pretty poorly.
While I admire your creativity and spunk in putting your fan cards out there, I'd recommend looking through this subforum a bit more (particularly this thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=699.0)) and get a better feel for how to word your cards, and what makes for good card concepts.
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I'll try to say a few things on the cards. In general, I would suggest you include images of your cards when you want feedback. If you want feedback, that is. If you don't want feedback, I guess I'm sorry, because here it comes nonetheless:
Astrologist: As Wero said, this is a delayed Ruined Library. Sure, you can stack a lot of them to get a lot of card draw at once, but you're basically killing your game for the mean time. That's never worth 4$. At least drop the price to 3$ and add an Action. About the reveal ability: I guess it means you know what you will draw before you do it, but as you'll have to draw that card sooner or later either way, the bonus is minimal. Not like the card allows me to sift past it. Also, it looks like it's supposed to interact with some other cards, but those are rare and the use of the effect is small.
Aztec Gold: Variants of this card have appeared here on fds countless times. A Gold that's cheap but curses you, hooray. The problem here is that on the first play of this card, the avarage coin value of the deck drops to a level below that you'd have if you had just bought a Silver. After that it goes downhill. Unless of course you have strong trashing. Generally, cards like this tend to be either too strong or too weak. I removed some of my own cards in the past because they had this issue. It's not really fun. A suggestion:
"Aztec Gold: Worth 3$. When you play this, each other player takes 1VP token."
This way, the card makes you fall behind in points every time you play it, but without clogging your deck. Probably it's still too weak, though.
Bargain: Why doesn't this just say "Trash a card from your hand. Gain an Action card costing up to 3$ more"? Oh, I guess because you might not want to gain the card you trashed? Also perhaps because it allows you to gain cards that have already been piled out (if they are in the trash now)? I'm not convinced this needs to be as complex. It's power is probably on the higher level either way, as you can make Coppers into 3$ cards and Estates into 5$s. On the other hand, it'll be useless sooner or later.
Blessing: This is another one that appears here often. If you have no more than two, they are only ever worth as a defense against Cursers. If you have more, you could go buy Curses yourself, but that would need a lot of buys. Again, I think this is too good when it's good, and too weak the rest of the time.
Cleaning Maid: This doesn't seem to do anything. With the exception of really specific boards and situations where it allows me to cause a three-pile, why would I wast a buy on this? It's not like my opponent couldn't just buy this themselves and return the cards again. The worst would be a situation where one player really wants the game to end and another wants it to keep going, e.g. because he needs another Province. They would just take turns emptying and re-filling the supply forever. I also don't see the combo with Bargainer - that card can just trash the target it wants itself.
Collective Effort: This card's idea isn't exactly bad. It's useless on boards without nonterminal cards, but a similar thing goes for Conspirator, and those boards are rather rare, either way. I don't see why it doesn't stack, though. Also, it maybe is a bit too similar and too easy compared to Horn of Plenty.
Contribution: I don't see anything wrong with this. The wording lacks a "when you play this", but that's a nitpick. In fact I kind of like this and think it adds something nice. Funny enough, I tried something similar with an Action card once (+3 Cards), but that one could discard anything and gained only Treasure cards. Yours is more flexible and can work for more boards :)
Imposter: This is too strong and comes close to being a directed attack. Early in the game, it will likely rob the player to your left of using their opening buys that shuffle. Sitting next to an imposter player gives one player an unfair disadvantage.
Investment: A bit too much text for me. It looks rather strong, but I couldn't say for sure it's too strong. Probably it's like Warf in that you want to consistently play many of these. It's a lot easier to do here than with Warf in fact, with the sifting and it being nonterminal. I can't see me discard an Action to this, though - simply because I'll likely already have plenty of Actions once I get this engine up and running. Then again, I'm not a good engine player.
Mermaids: Another one I've seen a lot, a Curse-Action. Ah well. First, the text is microscopic. Second, the idea that Duration cards don't do anything next turn if they are discarded from play inbetween is a misconception. The card staying out is a reminder only. If you e.g. use Procession or Bonfire to trash a Duration card after it has been played, it will also keep its effect. Third, are you supposed to be able to gain cards like Mermaids when a Witch is played? I assume not. Fourth, I don't like how this card allows you to trash a copy of itself to make each other player gain one and cause a 2-VP swing by that. If you use it all game long, you should have to keep the negative VP. Fifth, instead of using a new type, this could say "When you gain this, each other player takes 1 VP token.". The advantage would be that, while you still can use one Mermaids to trash another and deal them out to other players, you never get back that one VP you fell behind when you gained it.
Pirate Cove: This is too strong. It's a nonterminal Curser that even curses on gain. 5$ wouldn't be enough for this monster.
Pirate: I have nothing good to say about this. There's a reason Saboteur was removed from Dominion, you know.
Ravisher: Far too complicated. Very swingy. Also, in a game with many players, the chance to hit something gets smaller the more other players use this before your turn. I'm sure there's more, but it's really too complicated to wrap my head around just now.
Recruitment: This is fine. I wonder whether it would work better with a Menagerie wording that says "no duplicates".
Stock Market: I kinda like the idea here, but I think it's still rough around the edges. Perhaps this should not force you to play a Company. Rather it should make the play optional or give an entirely unrelated bonus instead. Technically, it could just pick a random card instead: "+1 Action. +1$ per every two cards that have been removed from the chosen pile. |Setup: Choose a random Action card pile in the supply."
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Welcome to the forum! I basically agree with all of Asper's remarks. Also, as a general note, you'll get a lot more people to read your fan cards if you post the text directly in your post instead of just linking to images. It's a pain to open up each image and read the card on a different page. Also, adding the text allows responses to quote the text, which is really helpful for other people reading the responses.
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Welcome to the forum! I basically agree with all of Asper's remarks. Also, as a general note, you'll get a lot more people to read your fan cards if you post the text directly in your post instead of just linking to images. It's a pain to open up each image and read the card on a different page. Also, adding the text allows responses to quote the text, which is really helpful for other people reading the responses.
Thanks for the suggestions on formatting my post. I will edit it accordingly.
I will respond to the feedback when I have time to sit down and write more.
The lack of images directly on the post was not meant to mean that I am closed to feedback.
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I definitely think the set has potential. Some cards are definitely better than others, though. Just saying, you may want to take this with a grain of salt since I have very little experience with set-design.
Aztec Gold: With trashers on the board, it can be possible to completely circumvent the penalty if you draw your deck and trash the curses each turn. This isn't necessarily a bad thing; I mean we have things like Windfall in official sets that let you add payload lightning fast after you have the engine set up and are drawing your deck. If there aren't trashers, it's pretty horrible and you'd be better off just buying Silver. If you're going for some sort of reward that can also backfire, you could make it so that when you buy it, you may trash 2 cards from your hand. That way, you can keep on buying Aztec Gold to clear out the curses, but if you play them all, you get clogged with curses. Then, you have to time when you green correctly. Also, this makes it so you can't have a payload consisting of entirely Aztec Gold.
Astrologist: I think this card needs to be more powerful, maybe letting you draw 2 cards. Calling it to draw a card is basically a delayed lab since it doesn't take an action, but when you play it, it eats up your action. So in total, it basically is a ruined library. I like the idea of being able to look at the top of your deck, but this is only useful in some situations.
Bargain: This is a pretty cool idea, but maybe too powerful for a $4, since right out of the gate you can trash your Estates for $5's. If you change it to $2 more it becomes not so good, but if you do that and reduce the cost to $3 it might be better. Then you could open with 2 of them if there are spammable $4's on the board.
Blessing: This is really underpowered right now. For it to be worth even a duchy, you need 6 curses, and then you still get the -VP from Curses. Maybe make it 1 VP per Curse. This might actually incentivize a player with a lot of Blessings to buy Curses near the end.
Cleaning Maid: I like this. It usually isn't worth buying until near the end, though, so maybe some sort of benefit might be good, like gaining a Silver. Of course, I dunno though.
Collective effort: This card is good.
Contribution: In my opinion this card is OP, since you can get double $5 with a hand of Contribution + $5 Action + Copper x 3, for example, or even triple $5 with a hand of Contribution x 2 + $5 Action + Copper + Estate. Also it can be used to easily gain Duchies in the late-game. Sorry, I can't really offer a solution to that.
Imposter: This card is quite wordy and a bit powerful for $3. The only fix I can suggest for the power issue is changing it to $4 but I'm not sure if that would make it more playable.
Investment: I really like this. May be weak for a $5, though. It's basically a delayed village/GM/lab, and it's only a cantrip/necro/silver the turn you play it. Comparable to Merchant Ship, which isn't such a good $5 card.
Mermaids: This one looks pretty good, but I could be completely wrong since it seems so random.
Pirate Cove: This one seems pretty good but extremely powerful. Compared to Ill-Gotten Gains, it's better since it gives the curse and continues to be useful as a village. Not to mention it also gives out curses on-play. I think the on-play curse giving should be removed, and maybe it should also cost $5.
Pirate: Sorry, this one kind of sucks. The attack is way too powerful, and it basically seems like an enraging card in general. I can't think of any fixes to this, I would just think of an entirely new idea.
Ravisher: Both the attack and the action part are way too good. They're better than knights and cost less. I would either severely nerf the attack, or make it cost $6, preferably nerfing the attack (maybe this is just a nitpicky thing- I hate swingy cards with a passion.)
Recruitment: In BM games it's extremely unlikely to hit, and in engine games it pretty much always hits. I would make it give +$1 no matter what, and another +$1 if there are the 4 different cards. That would make it still okay in BM if there's no other +buy, but also viable as payload in engines because of its low cost.
Stock Market: Hard to say, it looks like it's decent but often completely ignorable as the Company card could either be bad or just one of those cards you only want one of in your deck.
Overall, I think there are some pretty good ideas here. As werothegreat said though, some of the cards are overly wordy and complicated. Also, I think these attacks are overly ambitious and should be nerfed significantly.
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Some suggestions and observations:
Aztec Gold - it's such a simple concept. The main issue with it is how the size of the curse pile varies depending on the number of players in the game. When they empty, the card has no drawbacks, so it's much stronger in a 2 player game than 3+; you can buy lots of them up no problem. Maybe it could keep the number of Curses fixed as a setup rule to get around this?
Astrologist - as wero said, really weak. Is the premise to keep the top card revealed at all times, so after drawing some cards the new top card is then revealed? To start with, this could at least be a cantrip on play (+1 card +1 action). Then I would think adding the option to discard the card on call would improve this, just as Cartographer and Navigator let you do (takes away from the anti-stacking, but I don't think this is a good feature). This would still make the cost no more than $2.
Bargain - $4 cost looks very cheap, especially seeing how you can trash Estates into 5s.
Blessing - a bit strange to have the reaction and alt VP bit clash, you could make the reaction give a bonus to gaining a Curse. Even then, looks like this suffers the same problem as Aztec Gold.
Cleaning Maid - returning cards from the trash to the Supply has issues. Curse returning is one thing, but the possibility of a Bishop golden deck going on indefinitely is another, especially if that strategy is the optimal one on a board.
Collective effort - I guess this is a fair bit stronger than Horn of Plenty, though I haven't personally played with it. Take the $2 off and this might be balanced.
Contribution - if you have Actions you can't play I doubt you would want to gain too many more things into your deck besides Villages or Victories. Adding more $ when discarding might be a cleaner alternative.
Imposter - what happens to the Action the player to your left reveals? Put on deck and you've probably helped them, discarded and you've probably attacked them. And the reaction couldn't realistically work on Warrior, Soldier or Mercenary, the non-supply Attacks.
Investment - initially looks strong but it might be fair. The Victory discard for +card might be too strong, and Action discard for +action a bit silly. Perhaps swap these over.
Mermaids - doesn't look imbalanced. You couldn't discard Champion or Lighthouse.
Pirate Cove - at 4 cost, surely a card everyone rushes to save themselves from Curses. And when they're all gone, 2 piles are empty. IGG costs $5, but unlike this it provides some payload to help empty a third pile. I don't feel this would make for fun play experience.
Pirate - it's possible to trash opponents' decks to nothing but Victories and Curses. That's no fun at all.
Ravisher - confusing; this seems to do almost nothing if no player has Actions in hand? And +1 card by itself doesn't already exist for good reasons I can't remember.
Recruitment - looks fine, haven't played with Cornucopia to know how easy it is to do but looks like it could be worth building a deck around.
Stock Market - this might be OK, just would this itself be a card you want to buy? Young Witch is, for being a curser, whilst this only is if the Company is relevant. Stick a +buy on it like the other Markets and it may do.
Wrote all of this, and 4 posts came before me. If there are repeat thoughts apologies.
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Yeah, I won't exclude myself from this, but even the replies are so long that it's hard to make oneself read them. So here's a TLDR of my reply above:
Good:
Recruitment
Contribution
Stock Market (general idea)
Bad:
Pirate (unfun)
Impostor (unfun)
Astrologist (weak)
Ravisher (complicated)
Mermaids (complicated, doesn't work as intended)
Pirate Cove (overpowered)
Blessing (unbalanceable)
Cleaning Maid (weak, leads to infinite games)
Okay:
Aztec Gold (assuming my suggested wording)
Investment (a bit bland)
Collective Effort (fine, but too similar to HoP)
Bargain (needs work)
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Astrologist: As Wero said, this is a delayed Ruined Library. Sure, you can stack a lot of them to get a lot of card draw at once, but you're basically killing your game for the mean time. That's never worth 4$. At least drop the price to 3$ and add an Action. About the reveal ability: I guess it means you know what you will draw before you do it, but as you'll have to draw that card sooner or later either way, the bonus is minimal. Not like the card allows me to sift past it. Also, it looks like it's supposed to interact with some other cards, but those are rare and the use of the effect is small.
I agree with the things you've pointed out it is overpriced and could do with a bump in effects. $3 and +1 action could be enough of a fix. Anyway, thanks for the suggestions and we'll keep these in mind.
Aztec Gold: Variants of this card have appeared here on fds countless times. A Gold that's cheap but curses you, hooray. The problem here is that on the first play of this card, the average coin value of the deck drops to a level below that you'd have if you had just bought a Silver. After that it goes downhill. Unless of course you have strong trashing. Generally, cards like this tend to be either too strong or too weak. I removed some of my own cards in the past because they had this issue. It's not really fun. A suggestion:
"Aztec Gold: Worth 3$. When you play this, each other player takes 1VP token."
This way, the card makes you fall behind in points every time you play it, but without clogging your deck. Probably it's still too weak, though.
The suggested effect could be interesting, but it loses a bit of the original theme and concept. But I get the points you pointed out.
Bargain: Why doesn't this just say "Trash a card from your hand. Gain an Action card costing up to 3$ more"? Oh, I guess because you might not want to gain the card you trashed? Also perhaps because it allows you to gain cards that have already been piled out (if they are in the trash now)? I'm not convinced this needs to be as complex. It's power is probably on the higher level either way, as you can make Coppers into 3$ cards and Estates into 5$s. On the other hand, it'll be useless sooner or later.
Yeah, Bargain definitely seems to accelerate beginning and mid-game but isn't so good at the end. At least, not by itself (with cards like Cleaning Maid it's another story). We definitely did not want to regain what we just trashed.
Blessing: This is another one that appears here often. If you have no more than two, they are only ever worth as a defense against Cursers. If you have more, you could go buy Curses yourself, but that would need a lot of buys. Again, I think this is too good when it's good, and too weak the rest of the time.
You think it is too weak even without Curses with the Reaction effect it has?
Cleaning Maid: This doesn't seem to do anything. With the exception of really specific boards and situations where it allows me to cause a three-pile, why would I wast a buy on this? It's not like my opponent couldn't just buy this themselves and return the cards again. The worst would be a situation where one player really wants the game to end and another wants it to keep going, e.g. because he needs another Province. They would just take turns emptying and re-filling the supply forever. I also don't see the combo with Bargain - that card can just trash the target it wants itself.
The combo with Bargain is that Bargain could gain a Province from the trash. But not by itself. Cleaning Maid would do it first, then Bargain could go pick it up by trashing something from your hand costing 5$
My cousin wanted this card to be able to refill the Supply faster than it gets emptied by it. Not sure I agree, but that is why it is as it is right now. We might change it. I personally like that you can force other to feel pressure if you start emptying Victory piles. And they feel the need to waste a buy on this if they were not planning to use it
Collective Effort: This card's idea isn't exactly bad. It's useless on boards without nonterminal cards, but a similar thing goes for Conspirator, and those boards are rather rare, either way. I don't see why it doesn't stack, though. Also, it maybe is a bit too similar and too easy compared to Horn of Plenty.
It doesn't stack because it would probably be stronger by default than Horn of Plenty.
Contribution: I don't see anything wrong with this. The wording lacks a "when you play this", but that's a nitpick. In fact I kind of like this and think it adds something nice. Funny enough, I tried something similar with an Action card once (+3 Cards), but that one could discard anything and gained only Treasure cards. Yours is more flexible and can work for more boards :)
Glad you like this one.
Imposter: This is too strong and comes close to being a directed attack. Early in the game, it will likely rob the player to your left of using their opening buys that shuffle. Sitting next to an imposter player gives one player an unfair disadvantage.
It is true that it is close to a directed attack. We could do that the other players do the same but it only copies the effect of the Action of the player to the left? And make sure its type changes to include Attack? It is very rng though.
Investment: A bit too much text for me. It looks rather strong, but I couldn't say for sure it's too strong. Probably it's like Warf in that you want to consistently play many of these. It's a lot easier to do here than with Warf in fact, with the sifting and it being nonterminal. I can't see me discard an Action to this, though - simply because I'll likely already have plenty of Actions once I get this engine up and running. Then again, I'm not a good engine player.
Investment I think is fairly priced since it becomes better on the second turn but on the first turn I find it is worse than Ironmonger
Mermaids: Another one I've seen a lot, a Curse-Action. Ah well. First, the text is microscopic. Second, the idea that Duration cards don't do anything next turn if they are discarded from play inbetween is a misconception. The card staying out is a reminder only. If you e.g. use Procession or Bonfire to trash a Duration card after it has been played, it will also keep its effect. Third, are you supposed to be able to gain cards like Mermaids when a Witch is played? I assume not. Fourth, I don't like how this card allows you to trash a copy of itself to make each other player gain one and cause a 2-VP swing by that. If you use it all game long, you should have to keep the negative VP. Fifth, instead of using a new type, this could say "When you gain this, each other player takes 1 VP token.". The advantage would be that, while you still can use one Mermaids to trash another and deal them out to other players, you never get back that one VP you fell behind when you gained it.
Mermaids should not be gained with Witches. It is a type just meaning that it is worth a -1vp. I guess we could take out the effect of Durations since I did not know they would not lose their effect. Personally, I am not too bothered by the 2vp swing but I get what you're saying and am glad you pointed this out since it had not been something we considered much.
Pirate Cove: This is too strong. It's a nonterminal Curser that even curses on gain. 5$ wouldn't be enough for this monster.
It needs help, agreed. It used to be worse than Familiar... Some have suggested to make it more like Noble Brigand. Will be revised.
Pirate: I have nothing good to say about this. There's a reason Saboteur was removed from Dominion, you know.
Saboteur was too rng. I thought that was why it was removed. I guess this card is not made for all to like playing with.
Ravisher: Far too complicated. Very swingy. Also, in a game with many players, the chance to hit something gets smaller the more other players use this before your turn. I'm sure there's more, but it's really too complicated to wrap my head around just now.
It is swingy but I don't find it is much worse on that aspect than the Thief. Otherwise, it does have quite a bit of text, but I couldn't really see a good way to make it shorter without losing its concept.
Recruitment: This is fine. I wonder whether it would work better with a Menagerie wording that says "no duplicates".
Glad you think it is fine. We wanted to allow it to be used in hands with lots of cards. No duplicates changes a good bit of things becomes harder the more cards you have in hand. But allows for hands with less than 4 differently named cards to work to activate +3.
Stock Market: I kinda like the idea here, but I think it's still rough around the edges. Perhaps this should not force you to play a Company. Rather it should make the play optional or give an entirely unrelated bonus instead. Technically, it could just pick a random card instead: "+1 Action. +1$ per every two cards that have been removed from the chosen pile. |Setup: Choose a random Action card pile in the supply."
Making the play optional would be fine by me :)
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I definitely think the set has potential. Some cards are definitely better than others, though. Just saying, you may want to take this with a grain of salt since I have very little experience with set-design.
Your feedback is still valuable to us. :)
Aztec Gold: With trashers on the board, it can be possible to completely circumvent the penalty if you draw your deck and trash the curses each turn. This isn't necessarily a bad thing; I mean we have things like Windfall in official sets that let you add payload lightning fast after you have the engine set up and are drawing your deck. If there aren't trashers, it's pretty horrible and you'd be better off just buying Silver. If you're going for some sort of reward that can also backfire, you could make it so that when you buy it, you may trash 2 cards from your hand. That way, you can keep on buying Aztec Gold to clear out the curses, but if you play them all, you get clogged with curses. Then, you have to time when you green correctly. Also, this makes it so you can't have a payload consisting of entirely Aztec Gold.
Thanks for the trash 2 cards suggestion. We might consider it. It indeed is a hard card to play correctly. It generally just cases people who play it to have to find a good way to trash efficiently. Or just play it at desperate times. Against silvers, I'd sometimes go for this if I want to try buy one or two cards that are out of my range with only a silver and coppers.
Astrologist: I think this card needs to be more powerful, maybe letting you draw 2 cards. Calling it to draw a card is basically a delayed lab since it doesn't take an action, but when you play it, it eats up your action. So in total, it basically is a ruined library. I like the idea of being able to look at the top of your deck, but this is only useful in some situations.
It needs help indeed. It is too expensive for what it does. Asper had some good suggestions.
Bargain: This is a pretty cool idea, but maybe too powerful for a $4, since right out of the gate you can trash your Estates for $5's. If you change it to $2 more it becomes not so good, but if you do that and reduce the cost to $3 it might be better. Then you could open with 2 of them if there are spammable $4's on the board.
We might revise it. Not sure though. It does accelerate the beginning of the game but by the end it usually isn't so strong anymore.
Blessing: This is really underpowered right now. For it to be worth even a duchy, you need 6 curses, and then you still get the -VP from Curses. Maybe make it 1 VP per Curse. This might actually incentivize a player with a lot of Blessings to buy Curses near the end.
We didn't want people to make high positive tally by cancelling all their Curses with one Blessing. The reaction effect must be noted since it becomes similar to Trader.
Cleaning Maid: I like this. It usually isn't worth buying until near the end, though, so maybe some sort of benefit might be good, like gaining a Silver. Of course, I dunno though.
Glad you like it. It is very much a pure pace-control. I have heard different suggestions for improvements. We'll see what happens to it.
Collective effort: This card is good.
Yay :)
Contribution: In my opinion this card is OP, since you can get double $5 with a hand of Contribution + $5 Action + Copper x 3, for example, or even triple $5 with a hand of Contribution x 2 + $5 Action + Copper + Estate. Also it can be used to easily gain Duchies in the late-game. Sorry, I can't really offer a solution to that.
Wording might need changing, but I think it is ok as is.
Imposter: This card is quite wordy and a bit powerful for $3. The only fix I can suggest for the power issue is changing it to $4 but I'm not sure if that would make it more playable.
It is quite rng. That is why we put it at 3$. 4$ wouldn't be horrible either
Investment: I really like this. May be weak for a $5, though. It's basically a delayed village/GM/lab, and it's only a cantrip/necro/silver the turn you play it. Comparable to Merchant Ship, which isn't such a good $5 card.
Yeah, I still like it though. I don't think it is too weak for the price. At 4$ it would be too good.
Mermaids: This one looks pretty good, but I could be completely wrong since it seems so random.
Glad you think it is good. Why does it seem random?
Pirate Cove: This one seems pretty good but extremely powerful. Compared to Ill-Gotten Gains, it's better since it gives the curse and continues to be useful as a village. Not to mention it also gives out curses on-play. I think the on-play curse giving should be removed, and maybe it should also cost $5.
It needs help. Many have said it. The suggestion I like the most is to try make it more like Noble Brigand. Attack activates upon buy. We'll see. Gives curses a bit too easily at the moment. But I believe we'll try to keep the concept close. 5$ would be a decent price.
Pirate: Sorry, this one kind of sucks. The attack is way too powerful, and it basically seems like an enraging card in general. I can't think of any fixes to this, I would just think of an entirely new idea.
I don't think it is too much since it benefits you in no way. But I agree that it sucks really hard to get hit by it. Was the point of it. I'll see if we change it.
Ravisher: Both the attack and the action part are way too good. They're better than knights and cost less. I would either severely nerf the attack, or make it cost $6, preferably nerfing the attack (maybe this is just a nitpicky thing- I hate swingy cards with a passion.)
It's not that good. It doesn't hit too often and only gives +1 card by itself. It is quite swingy. So I can understand the dislike.
Recruitment: In BM games it's extremely unlikely to hit, and in engine games it pretty much always hits. I would make it give +$1 no matter what, and another +$1 if there are the 4 different cards. That would make it still okay in BM if there's no other +buy, but also viable as payload in engines because of its low cost.
Recruitment's point was to reward variety. Cornucopia doesn't go well with BM usually either. Menagerie as an example.
Stock Market: Hard to say, it looks like it's decent but often completely ignorable as the Company card could either be bad or just one of those cards you only want one of in your deck.
I think it is close to decent where it is. It's true that its power varies with its Company.
Overall, I think there are some pretty good ideas here. As werothegreat said though, some of the cards are overly wordy and complicated. Also, I think these attacks are overly ambitious and should be nerfed significantly.
Pirate Cove will be revised. Pirate maybe. Ravisher and Mermaids will probably stay similar.
The walls of text are hard to change since a bunch of them lose their meaning if I chop words or sentences. I tried to keep it as short as possible without losing meaning.
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Attacks that trash Actions need very careful balancing. Swindler and Saboteur give the victim a new card whose cost is a function of that of the trashed card. Knights don't, but they get trashed if they hit other knights. Pirate just... doesn't. If my Pirate hits your Pirate, it's going to be hard for you to recover.
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Aztec Gold - it's such a simple concept. The main issue with it is how the size of the curse pile varies depending on the number of players in the game. When they empty, the card has no drawbacks, so it's much stronger in a 2 player game than 3+; you can buy lots of them up no problem. Maybe it could keep the number of Curses fixed as a setup rule to get around this?
The fixed number of Curses could be an idea. But I think that someone piledriving the Curses would really have to know what they are doing or they'd screw up their deck bad.
Astrologist - as wero said, really weak. Is the premise to keep the top card revealed at all times, so after drawing some cards the new top card is then revealed? To start with, this could at least be a cantrip on play (+1 card +1 action). Then I would think adding the option to discard the card on call would improve this, just as Cartographer and Navigator let you do (takes away from the anti-stacking, but I don't think this is a good feature). This would still make the cost no more than $2.
Cantrip would improve it indeed. Would definitely cost around 2$
Bargain - $4 cost looks very cheap, especially seeing how you can trash Estates into 5s.
It does accelerate the game in the beginning. Toward the end it loses it's power as things scale up to Provinces. But I agree that it could be revised.
Blessing - a bit strange to have the reaction and alt VP bit clash, you could make the reaction give a bonus to gaining a Curse. Even then, looks like this suffers the same problem as Aztec Gold.
The Victory section is usually damage control. Making positive tally would be hard. If players do not wish to keep their Curses then they can try use the reaction which has its similarities to Trader.
Cleaning Maid - returning cards from the trash to the Supply has issues. Curse returning is one thing, but the possibility of a Bishop golden deck going on indefinitely is another, especially if that strategy is the optimal one on a board.
As I said to Asper, the returning back to Supply faster than trashing from it was my cousin's idea. I don't like it much, so I'll bring this up for sure.
Collective effort - I guess this is a fair bit stronger than Horn of Plenty, though I haven't personally played with it. Take the $2 off and this might be balanced.
You cannot stack this. You can stack Horn of Plenty. So often, if stacked, this is an expensive Silver. I would not lower its worth.
Contribution - if you have Actions you can't play I doubt you would want to gain too many more things into your deck besides Villages or Victories. Adding more $ when discarding might be a cleaner alternative.
I wouldn't want to add more $ instead. The bonus would be quite a bit better than getting more Actions
Imposter - what happens to the Action the player to your left reveals? Put on deck and you've probably helped them, discarded and you've probably attacked them. And the reaction couldn't realistically work on Warrior, Soldier or Mercenary, the non-supply Attacks.
Warrior, Soldier and Mercenary would be quite powerful to gain this way, but I wouldn't disapprove of this card because of Attacks such as these. But this is a good point to bring about. This is the kind of info I'd put on a FAQ. Imposter does not discard the other player's Action. You might help a bit.
Investment - initially looks strong but it might be fair. The Victory discard for +card might be too strong, and Action discard for +action a bit silly. Perhaps swap these over.
I think it's ok as it is. This card is similar to Ironmonger in its bonuses.
Mermaids - doesn't look imbalanced. You couldn't discard Champion or Lighthouse.
You're correct about Champion and Lighthouse.
Pirate Cove - at 4 cost, surely a card everyone rushes to save themselves from Curses. And when they're all gone, 2 piles are empty. IGG costs $5, but unlike this it provides some payload to help empty a third pile. I don't feel this would make for fun play experience.
This needs help. I like the suggestion to remove one of the two effects and replace it with an attack upon buy like Noble Brigand. Will probably move to 5$
Pirate - it's possible to trash opponents' decks to nothing but Victories and Curses. That's no fun at all.
Would be hard, but I guess doable. We'll see how we'd modify it if we do.
Ravisher - confusing; this seems to do almost nothing if no player has Actions in hand? And +1 card by itself doesn't already exist for good reasons I can't remember.
It takes actions from the top of the other players' decks, so I think it's ok. Will see if we revise it.
Recruitment - looks fine, haven't played with Cornucopia to know how easy it is to do but looks like it could be worth building a deck around.
It isn't too hard. Can promise. Good engines do well with this.
Stock Market - this might be OK, just would this itself be a card you want to buy? Young Witch is, for being a curser, whilst this only is if the Company is relevant. Stick a +buy on it like the other Markets and it may do.
The +buy could be interesting. It is true that it varies in power with the extra action pile.
Wrote all of this, and 4 posts came before me. If there are repeat thoughts apologies.
Repeats are good, because it means that there is more than likely something to take note of :)
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Attacks that trash Actions need very careful balancing. Swindler and Saboteur give the victim a new card whose cost is a function of that of the trashed card. Knights don't, but they get trashed if they hit other knights. Pirate just... doesn't. If my Pirate hits your Pirate, it's going to be hard for you to recover.
Thanks for pointing that out. We'll see how we would balance Pirate. But these observations are very pertinent
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Blessing: This is another one that appears here often. If you have no more than two, they are only ever worth as a defense against Cursers. If you have more, you could go buy Curses yourself, but that would need a lot of buys. Again, I think this is too good when it's good, and too weak the rest of the time.
You think it is too weak even without Curses with the Reaction effect it has?
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I guess the reaction effect can be really good in some engines, as it allows you to buy cards costing up to 3$ for 0$. This is great with Buys and cost reduction. The parts are more or less contrary, though, aren't they?
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I guess the reaction effect can be really good in some engines, as it allows you to buy cards costing up to 3$ for 0$. This is great with Buys and cost reduction. The parts are more or less contrary, though, aren't they?
This cards parts are definitely anti-synergetic at the moment. We might address this when taking a second look at this card
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Astrologist
Now costs 2$ and added +1 action
This looks good. I realise my suggestion of +card +action on play would have made it a 2 cost Lab. This is a cantrip in which you can delay the draw.
Aztec Gold
Added a trashing factor to make it more viable. Gives a reason to buy more copies of it now. Its strategy would probably rely on trying to empty the Curse pile and trash a Curse with Aztec Gold if there are no other trashers.
If you found it wasn't viable before this should do.
Blessing
Major revamp. Removed anti-synergy. The Victory was made into an Action and the Reaction now gives VP instead of gaining cards costing up to 3.
This can get points indefinitely; Triumph and Goons each get players to keep cards they gain, whereas this doesn't. It doesn't push the game toward the end, and you can make a deck to buy numerous Coppers each turn and it will never clog up.
Pirate Cove
Nerfed. Parts are now synergetic. Upon gain, everyone gains a curse. Upon revealing a Curse, other gain one. Maybe overpriced now.
Very game-defining, especially if it were the only Village. Villages are good for lean decks, so I just wonder if all this cursing, including to yourself, belongs on a Village. You'd be OK to take your own Curses with Ritual and Defiled Shrine, and maybe (?) with Aztec Gold, but with a Village maybe not.
Pirate
Nerfed. Hands out curses at the minimum. Can only play one by turn. Will attack hand. Trashes itself Knights-style
A little note first, there's nothing to say a player couldn't cheat and not really trash the highest value card; should have them reveal hand. Anyhow, like this it's more comparable to Pillage. Donald found that even discarding the best card from an opponent's hand would only be fair as a one-shot. Trashing it is even worse. So even if this were a one-shot it would be too strong.
Ravisher
Removed +1 Card. Reworded to resemble Thief's wording.
This is comparable to your Imposter, especially in a 2 player game. Only it aims to steal the action altogether rather than just become a copy of it. For the same cost. The trash from hand alternative opponents get is really narrow - what happens in the likely event somebody calls their action back but has no Action in hand (the same cost)? I assume they're not allowed to. Overall this isn't really any fun; it can simply amount to forcing big money play.
Stock Market no longer forces players to play a Company.
But still allows them to? It would be weak otherwise.
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About Pirate Cove, consider Bazaar. That's another Village that costs 5$. Would you say the +1$ is stronger or weaker than a possible Curse? If you compare Familiar and Peddler, I get the impression that the Curse is much stronger. This has the case only in some cases, but also gives one on gain IGG style. Either way, as Aquila remarked, it's not necessarily a combination of effects you would do.
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This looks good. I realise my suggestion of +card +action on play would have made it a 2 cost Lab. This is a cantrip in which you can delay the draw.
yeah. I think it makes it interesting with the delayed draw and keeping the reveal effect personal now.
If you found it wasn't viable before this should do.
It was less viable for sure. As Asper pointed out, with good trashing it was very good. Otherwise, you maybe would use it once but then you'd be scared for the rest of the game and you'd have that card and a Curse that you wouldn't want in your deck for the rest of the game.
This can get points indefinitely; Triumph and Goons each get players to keep cards they gain, whereas this doesn't. It doesn't push the game toward the end, and you can make a deck to buy numerous Coppers each turn and it will never clog up.
I'll look at Goons and Triumph for help. If they keep them it should be fine. I'll just make sure that they get more points for having or gaining curses but they'd still need to trash them with other cards.
Very game-defining, especially if it were the only Village. Villages are good for lean decks, so I just wonder if all this cursing, including to yourself, belongs on a Village. You'd be OK to take your own Curses with Ritual and Defiled Shrine, and maybe (?) with Aztec Gold, but with a Village maybe not.
This card has been the biggest PITA to balance. I want a village that can hand out Curses in some way. I'll see if I can come up with another idea.
A little note first, there's nothing to say a player couldn't cheat and not really trash the highest value card; should have them reveal hand. Anyhow, like this it's more comparable to Pillage. Donald found that even discarding the best card from an opponent's hand would only be fair as a one-shot. Trashing it is even worse. So even if this were a one-shot it would be too strong.
The reveal your hand part will be added. I must note that Pillage gives a fair bonus to the player by giving two Spoils. I guess in the end it ends up being close to the same in matters of power. This one just doesn't give any bonus and takes a gamble at what would hit hardest (money or actions). I do understand that many hate cards that purely slow down the game. This card's concept was that though. Pillage could be good to check for rewording though.
This is comparable to your Imposter, especially in a 2 player game. Only it aims to steal the action altogether rather than just become a copy of it. For the same cost. The trash from hand alternative opponents get is really narrow - what happens in the likely event somebody calls their action back but has no Action in hand (the same cost)? I assume they're not allowed to. Overall this isn't really any fun; it can simply amount to forcing big money play.
I think they shouldn't be allowed to. It is true that Ravisher and Imposter have their similarities. But I think they're both fair in their details. Imposter has a strong reaction and the action leaves an Action card on top of the opponent's deck (which usually is good for them). Ravisher is meant to be the Action version of Thief. I don't mind putting his price to 5$ but I'd think he'd be overpriced.
But still allows them to? It would be weak otherwise.
Yes. Still allows them too.
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About Pirate Cove, consider Bazaar. That's another Village that costs 5$. Would you say the +1$ is stronger or weaker than a possible Curse? If you compare Familiar and Peddler, I get the impression that the Curse is much stronger. This has the case only in some cases, but also gives one on gain IGG style. Either way, as Aquila remarked, it's not necessarily a combination of effects you would do.
Thanks for the comparisons. I do think that the ability to Curse compared to +1$ is stronger. Will see how (and if) I can balance this card. I'd like the concept to be able to work out.
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Pirate Cove as a Looter seems like it could work. That way, the additional Actions at least do something with the junk you gain.
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UPDATE: Removed posts with the new revisions and added them to the initial post. No new changes since the comment above :)
Summary:
Astrologist: Added +1 Action. Now costs 2$
Aztec Gold: Now allows to trash a card upon gain. Makes it more viable, especially on a board without trashers.
Bargain: Removed. Expand and Graverobber are better balanced.
Blessing: Major revamp. Now is an Action-Reaction. The action allows to trash a card. If it is a curse, +1VP. And the reaction now gives +1VP per card you gain upon reveal.
Cleaning Maid: Removed. Salt the Earth is better balanced.
Contribution: Reworded. "When you play this..."
Imposter: Now costs 4$.
Pirate Cove: Revamped. No longer gives Curses. At setup you now add Aztec Gold to the Supply. Upon playing, it allows you to gain an Aztec Gold, to force others to take one, or both
Pirate: Reordered wording. Now forces players to reveal their hand after trashing to prove they did not cheat.
Ravisher: Removed +1 Card. Reworded to be more like Thief
Stock Market: Playing a Company is now optional
Thank you all for your feedback
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UPDATE: Added the link to our official BGG page
Blessing: Trashing a Curse now gives +2VP. Any other card, +1VP
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Pirate's instructions are in the wrong order. You must make the revelation of the hand happen before the trashing.
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I can try reorder it. But I definitely don't want the opponents to reveal their hand before the player has chosen the effect
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Blessing, as currently worded, gives you infinite (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) when you gain a card. You can just keep revealing it. Also Reaction cards should be all blue, not half white, half blue.
Also I don't understand whey everyone with a homebrew expansion feels the need to make a semi-official page for it on BGG. Like, it just feels weird.
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Concerning BGG, I just posted it there for publicity. Not everyone that likes Dominion and is willing to check out fan expansions knows that this website exists. I actually found out that this site existed through Reddit (which is where I originally posted).
Now about revealing Reactions, I never quite understood the infinite revealing. What wording would be appropriate to reveal once per attack/gain?
I'll change Blessing's colouring accordingly. I had thought about it but forgot.
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Generally, you can't prevent infinite revealing - it's in your hand, it goes back into your hand, there's no accountability. The two ways around infinite revealing are (1) make it only do something useful on the first reveal (e.g. if you reveal Moat a second time, it doesn't double-protect you or anything), or (2) put it somewhere it can't be revealed again (e.g. Horse Traders gets set aside and goes back into your hand at the start of your next turn, Caravan Guard gets played, etc).
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Now about revealing Reactions, I never quite understood the infinite revealing. What wording would be appropriate to reveal once per attack/gain?
I did something similar here:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16928.msg710352#msg710352
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Ravhiser doesn't work well. For example, my hand is 5 Coppers, you play Ravhiser, I reveal Ravhiser, trash it, you choose me, I choose "gain, trash another", to gain Ravhiser. I don't have to trash anything except for the first Ravhiser. And what happens when 2 players reveal the same?
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I can try reorder it. But I definitely don't want the opponents to reveal their hand before the player has chosen the effect
You don't need them to, but you do need them to before they actually trash the card. Because if the card to be trashed is a Rats or a Cultist, you will otherwise be unable to tell if they have been cheating.
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I can try reorder it. But I definitely don't want the opponents to reveal their hand before the player has chosen the effect
You don't need them to, but you do need them to before they actually trash the card. Because if the card to be trashed is a Rats or a Cultist, you will otherwise be unable to tell if they have been cheating.
Good point. Will look into that. I'll update the image on the first post and make an update post as soon as I have made the changes :)
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Ravhiser doesn't work well. For example, my hand is 5 Coppers, you play Ravhiser, I reveal Ravhiser, trash it, you choose me, I choose "gain, trash another", to gain Ravhiser. I don't have to trash anything except for the first Ravhiser. And what happens when 2 players reveal the same?
Good observations. Had not considered cases where the player had no Actions in hand. Will have to add clauses for that type of thing. When 2 players reveal the same I guess it is up to you to choose which copy you get but I don't think that needs extra wording. Could be put in a FAQ for the card
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Now about revealing Reactions, I never quite understood the infinite revealing. What wording would be appropriate to reveal once per attack/gain?
I did something similar here:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16928.msg710352#msg710352
I had been checking your cards and saw that. Thanks for the reference. Will be looking into it for help with wording.
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Generally, you can't prevent infinite revealing - it's in your hand, it goes back into your hand, there's no accountability. The two ways around infinite revealing are (1) make it only do something useful on the first reveal (e.g. if you reveal Moat a second time, it doesn't double-protect you or anything), or (2) put it somewhere it can't be revealed again (e.g. Horse Traders gets set aside and goes back into your hand at the start of your next turn, Caravan Guard gets played, etc).
Thanks a bunch for the tips. I'll definitely be thinking of these two options when reviewing Blessing :)
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Concerning BGG, I just posted it there for publicity. Not everyone that likes Dominion and is willing to check out fan expansions knows that this website exists. I actually found out that this site existed through Reddit (which is where I originally posted).
There is a difference between posting a thread with your fan cards on BGG and creating an actual board game entry for your fan expansion. It takes a lot of chutzpah to post a barely-tested fan expansion with lots of problematic cards alongside the official ones. Not that you're the first to do so.
EDIT: I mean it's labeled "fan expansion", which is great. Really it just boggles my mind that BGG lumps official expansions for things together with fan ones. There should be separate categories. But that's not your fault, that's just BGG being BGG.
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Concerning BGG, I just posted it there for publicity. Not everyone that likes Dominion and is willing to check out fan expansions knows that this website exists. I actually found out that this site existed through Reddit (which is where I originally posted).
EDIT: I mean it's labeled "fan expansion", which is great. Really it just boggles my mind that BGG lumps official expansions for things together with fan ones. There should be separate categories. But that's not your fault, that's just BGG being BGG.
Agreed about categorizing them. BGG has a good share of flaws/inconsistencies.
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UPDATE: Thanks for pointing out the quirks again
Blessing: Corrected colouring. Changed wording to ensure the Reaction is only revealed once per gained card.
Imposter: Corrected colouring.
Pirate: Reordered wording to ensure the players reveal their hand before trashing to prove they are not cheating.
Ravisher: Previous owner now gains the trashed Action back into their hand, if they choose so. Changed wording to ensure that the previous owner cannot choose to gain their previous action back without giving an equal-costing Action in exchange.
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Some of your cards are really text-dense. Simple is better. I would recommend trying to find ways to pare down words, even if that means getting rid of effects. One card doesn't have to do everything (even Jack of all Trades doesn't, really). Figure out what the card is trying to do, and have it do that, without any extranea. Then add vanilla bonuses for balance purposes, as necessary.
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Some of your cards are really text-dense. Simple is better. I would recommend trying to find ways to pare down words, even if that means getting rid of effects. One card doesn't have to do everything (even Jack of all Trades doesn't, really). Figure out what the card is trying to do, and have it do that, without any extranea. Then add vanilla bonuses for balance purposes, as necessary.
Will consider that. Ravisher and Pirate are the worst on those aspects for sure
Thanks for the tips
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UPDATE
Pirate: Removed the curse-giving since it is brutal enough on its own (and Saboteur only did one effect).
Stock: Replaces Stock Market. We found it was a little weak. So we thought of trying it as a treasure.
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UPDATE
Pirate: Removed the curse-giving since it is brutal enough on its own (and Saboteur only did one effect).
OK, looks like you've removed the first-play-only limitation with it. So the possibility of trashing the opponent's deck is back again, but they can defend against it now with their own pirate.
Stock: Replaces Stock Market. We found it was a little weak. So we thought of trying it as a treasure.
There's no way as yet to play actions in the buy phase, so there's bound to be a problem come up with it. The closest I can think of to a card that depends on being played at the Action Phase is Tactician - if the company is Tactician and you play Stock last at your buy phase, there's no real penalty to it. When you change an Action into a Treasure card, you should always ask 'why not just add +1 action instead?' I don't know a good answer why not here, but if you decided you really wanted to involve the Company at the buy phase, then perhaps you could set a company aside to play at the start of next turn, or you can buy a Company (could be with debt) straight onto the deck?
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Villa puts a player back into their Action phase when they gain a Villa, with the gained Villa going into their hand.
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UPDATE
Pirate: Removed the curse-giving since it is brutal enough on its own (and Saboteur only did one effect).
OK, looks like you've removed the first-play-only limitation with it. So the possibility of trashing the opponent's deck is back again, but they can defend against it now with their own pirate.
Stock: Replaces Stock Market. We found it was a little weak. So we thought of trying it as a treasure.
There's no way as yet to play actions in the buy phase, so there's bound to be a problem come up with it. The closest I can think of to a card that depends on being played at the Action Phase is Tactician - if the company is Tactician and you play Stock last at your buy phase, there's no real penalty to it. When you change an Action into a Treasure card, you should always ask 'why not just add +1 action instead?' I don't know a good answer why not here, but if you decided you really wanted to involve the Company at the buy phase, then perhaps you could set a company aside to play at the start of next turn, or you can buy a Company (could be with debt) straight onto the deck?
I agree that Stock should not be a Treasure if it allows playing a Company. I'm not really a fan of allowing to play a Company either in fact, but if you have that, there's really no reason to not make this an Action with +1 Action instead. Basically it becomes a Village variant this way, where you must use one of the actions on a particular card.
Rules wise, I don't see an issue playing an Action card in your buy phase. It's just ugly. Then again, official cards already play Treasures in your buy phase and play Actions outside of your turn, but I can't say I'm a fan of those, either.
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Villa puts a player back into their Action phase when they gain a Villa, with the gained Villa going into their hand.
Thanks for reminding me of that :)
I'm wondering if there is any way I could use this kind of mechanic for Stock Market
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OK, looks like you've removed the first-play-only limitation with it. So the possibility of trashing the opponent's deck is back again, but they can defend against it now with their own pirate.
The first-play-only effect has been replaced with the attack only affecting players with 5 or more cards in hand. So I don't see how you can trash opponent's hand (which I agree is ludicrous) given the new effect. Concerning the defense, I was told to look at Knights for their power, price and self-trashing upon trashing another Knight effect.
There's no way as yet to play actions in the buy phase [...] I don't know a good answer why not here, but if you decided you really wanted to involve the Company at the buy phase, then perhaps you could set a company aside to play at the start of next turn, or you can buy a Company (could be with debt) straight onto the deck?
It is true that there is no way yet. I am getting ahead of myself because I was thinking of trying to get Stock to follow the idea of after buy phase cards from Nocturne. Anyway, I like the suggestions concerning how to manage Actions that are played in the buy phase, will consider them when reviewing. Or I'll wait for Nocturne to come out and see if I could get Stock to act like those Doom (I think that's their name) cards :)
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I agree that Stock should not be a Treasure if it allows playing a Company. I'm not really a fan of allowing to play a Company either in fact, but if you have that, there's really no reason to not make this an Action with +1 Action instead. Basically it becomes a Village variant this way, where you must use one of the actions on a particular card.
Rules wise, I don't see an issue playing an Action card in your buy phase. It's just ugly. Then again, official cards already play Treasures in your buy phase and play Actions outside of your turn, but I can't say I'm a fan of those, either.
I had considered +1 Action, but I thought it would be quite a bit stronger than turning it into a treasure and also couldn't think of a good price for it with that addition.
Treasures you can play automatically without using an action, that was my thought pattern.
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There's no way as yet to play actions in the buy phase
There is. Just not in your buy phase. When another player plays Relic, you can play Caravan Guard.
Seriously, though: Rules-wise, playing a Village in your buy phase should just give you +1 Card and +2 Actions like it's supposed to do. You just can't use these Actions to play another Action card. If you could play Action cards in your buy phase only because you have Actions left over, you could just play all your money before playing your Library. And you do have Actions left in your buy phase, as we know from Villa and Diadem. So no real "problem" here. Just fully-avoidable confusion.
I agree that Stock should not be a Treasure if it allows playing a Company. I'm not really a fan of allowing to play a Company either in fact, but if you have that, there's really no reason to not make this an Action with +1 Action instead. Basically it becomes a Village variant this way, where you must use one of the actions on a particular card.
Rules wise, I don't see an issue playing an Action card in your buy phase. It's just ugly. Then again, official cards already play Treasures in your buy phase and play Actions outside of your turn, but I can't say I'm a fan of those, either.
I had considered +1 Action, but I thought it would be quite a bit stronger than turning it into a treasure and also couldn't think of a good price for it with that addition.
Treasures you can play automatically without using an action, that was my thought pattern.
Well, the Treasure version has the advantage that you can play it even if you have no Actions left when you draw it. Like, play Smithy, draw Stock, play Militia. That's pretty strong. It has the downside that nonterminal cards will never be played with Stock as long as you can avoid it, though. Basically it goes good with terminals: Terminal draw because you can play it after the draw, and coin because those are the perfect Stock card (no loss or risk). Nonterminals have the only advantage that you can load up on them to drain the pile, but then you get nothing special out of having them.
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Well, the Treasure version has the advantage that you can play it even if you have no Actions left when you draw it. Like, play Smithy, draw Stock, play Militia. That's pretty strong. It has the downside that nonterminal cards will never be played with Stock as long as you can avoid it, though. Basically it goes good with terminals: Terminal draw because you can play it after the draw, and coin because those are the perfect Stock card (no loss or risk). Nonterminals have the only advantage that you can load up on them to drain the pile, but then you get nothing special out of having them.
You're right. I'll probably either add +1 Action to the previous version and check the price for that addition or think of some other way of making Stock more interesting as a Treasure despite the Company's effects.
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UPDATE
Stock Market: Replaces Stock. Added +1 Action. Now costs 4$.
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UPDATE
Aztec Gold: Removed because of its similarity to Cursed Gold.
Pirate Cove: Modified to use Cursed Gold. Now costs 4$.
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UPDATE
Pirate Cove: Gaining Cursed Gold when played is no longer optional.
Ravisher: Reworded. No longer plays the gained card.
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That's good, you should fix Mermaid next.
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That's good, you should fix Mermaid next.
What do you think needs fixing on it?
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That's good, you should fix Mermaid next.
What do you think needs fixing on it?
Aside from Haven, Archive and Crypt the discarding durations thing doesn't work - you still get the next turn effect even if they're discarded from play. So you'd have to add wording to say that this cancels the duration effect or something. The problem is though, you already need a magnifying glass to read Mermaid, the text is tiny!
Mermaid is also super broken! Even as just +2 cards +2 actions -1vp isn't as bad of a drawback as Lost City's +1 card, it's pretty negligible actually. The trashing option is Masquerade + a junking attack, which is also incredibly powerful, even at $5. Unlike Ambassador you're also trashing 1 card and giving out 1, so no progress is ever made and you just pass cards back and forth until the piles run out. The duration cancelling, assume it's worded to work will never actually be chosen, because you won't touch durations in a game with this.
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Aside from Haven, Archive and Crypt the discarding durations thing doesn't work - you still get the next turn effect even if they're discarded from play. So you'd have to add wording to say that this cancels the duration effect or something. The problem is though, you already need a magnifying glass to read Mermaid, the text is tiny!
Mermaid is also super broken! Even as just +2 cards +2 actions -1vp isn't as bad of a drawback as Lost City's +1 card, it's pretty negligible actually. The trashing option is Masquerade + a junking attack, which is also incredibly powerful, even at $5. Unlike Ambassador you're also trashing 1 card and giving out 1, so no progress is ever made and you just pass cards back and forth until the piles run out. The duration cancelling, assume it's worded to work will never actually be chosen, because you won't touch durations in a game with this.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Some of the points you brought up had been said before. I didn't think of them much back then. The answer you gave helps me understand what's the evil in the current version. Will bring it up to my cousin and work on it. Probably will upload another version in the next week.
Thanks again
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UPDATE
Pirate Cove: Gaining Cursed Gold is not possible since Heirlooms are not part of the supply. Replaced the effect to be 1VP instead.
Mermaids: Reworded to ensure Duration effects are cancelled (this includes the player's too). Replaced the Cursed type :( (worth -1VP) with +1 victory token for each other player when gaining Mermaids during your turn.
Note: We plan to make a second expansion some time in the future that will include balanced Cursed type cards
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UPDATE
Blessing: Reworded to ensure that revealing it more than once will not apply the effect more than once
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UPDATE
Mermaids: Reworded to ensure that voided duration cards are discarded and do not remain useless on the table.