Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Orange on October 21, 2016, 08:32:48 am
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Please see this thread:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16405.0
Then list here up to ten cards you think are contenders for "The Greatest Card". Define that however you'd like. My original thought was "when I play this card (or buy this event), I know I'm significantly improving the chances that I win this game" but others have suggested the card you'd most like to have along with your ten starting cards, and others still submit that the card's cost should be a factor (strength relative to cost, so something like Chapel is in the discussion.) I think that last one might infringe on Qvist's master rankings a bit, but again, define it how you'd like. The top 8 or 16 nominees will get seeded into a bracket and we'll get a champion that way. ;D
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My nominees:
Champion
Dominate
Donate
Followers
Fortune
King's Court
Madman
Possession
Prince
Teacher
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Chapel
King's Court
Champion/Teacher
Tournament
Goons
Mountebank
Cultist
Wharf
Artificer
Lost Arts
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Let me see
Goons
Wharf
Fortune, I guess
Donate, I also guess, but much more confidently
Champion
Teacher
City Quarter, I guess
And then as cards that are powerful but that I would not define "great":
King's Court
Cultist
Mountebank
Interestingly, they do not seem to be distributed evenly among expansions:
3 from Prosperity
3 from Empires, which I've never even tried
2 from Adventures
1 from Dark Ages
1 from Seaside
I think I'm influenced by some of these being new and shiny.
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Champion
Chapel
Cultist
Dominate
Donate
Fortune
King's Court
Mercenary
Possession
Teacher
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I nominate Scout
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Possession
Champion
Teacher
Fortune
Inheritance
King's Court
Donate
These are in approximate order of power from most to least overpowered. I'm using the assumption here that you are able to gain the card/get the event's effect once per game, for free, at a time of your choosing.
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I nominate Scout
You can only nominate cards that exist. Knowing your voting history, I suggest Transmute instead as an applicable option.
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I nominate Scout
You can only nominate cards that exist. Knowing your voting history, I suggest Transmute instead as an applicable option.
Scout still exists
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No Rebuild? Did I miss something where the meta-game of dominion has shifted away from stupid rebuild crushing games?
Anyway here's mine:
Champion
Donate
Goons
King's Court
Fortune
Ambassador
I haven't played with the following, but from the gripes I've seen about them on the forum and watching games these seem pretty "Greatest" to me.
Mercenary
Cultist
Rebuild
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I nominate Scout
You can only nominate cards that exist. Knowing your voting history, I suggest Transmute instead as an applicable option.
Scout still exists
Scout: People often cite this as the weakest card in the game. I dunno, there are different metrics. There's "how often do I get it," there's "how sad am I when you give me one with Ambassador." You know. I'd rather your Ambassador gave me a Scout than a Thief. In all-Intrigue games, Scout gets to draw you some Harems and Nobles and Great Halls. New players like it; it's all upside, right? It is pretty weak though. And I could preserve the premise on its replacement.
You know it to be true.
Also, Luke is Darth Vader's son and Han Solo dies. Rosebud is the sled. Norman Bates is his mother. Malcom Crowe is a ghost. The Planet of The Apes was actually Earth.
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So every single Scout in the world disappeared into thin air?
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So every single Scout in the world disappeared into thin air?
This is true. If yours didn't, then they were probably in your imagination to begin with.
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Champion
Guise's Best Card Ever!
Black Lotus
One Quiet Night
Raid III
Mistress of Ceremonies
Larissa Neathal
Hyperefficiency
Adayu the Serene
Queen of Spades
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Champion
Guise's Best Card Ever!
Black Lotus
One Quiet Night
Raid III
Mistress of Ceremonies
Larissa Neathal
Hyperefficiency
Adayu the Serene
Queen of Spades
The Martha Stewart card in Apples to Apples
Bill Gates's credit card
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"Depends on the board"
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"Depends on the board"
Could you construct a board where a T1 champion would be a bad idea?
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Chapel
King's Court
Champion/Teacher
Tournament
Goons
Mountebank
Cultist
Wharf
Artificer
Lost Arts
You get 10 spots on the ballot--you must cut one of these in order for me to count this
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Let me see
Goons
Wharf
Fortune, I guess
Donate, I also guess, but much more confidently
Champion
Teacher
City Quarter, I guess
And then as cards that are powerful but that I would not define "great":
King's Court
Cultist
Mountebank
Interestingly, they do not seem to be distributed evenly among expansions:
3 from Prosperity
3 from Empires, which I've never even tried
2 from Adventures
1 from Dark Ages
1 from Seaside
I think I'm influenced by some of these being new and shiny.
You can nominate fewer than 10 if you want. I'll count all yours unless you tell me otherwise.
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Queen of Spades
King of Spades is strictly better [/misogyny]
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Based on this definition
"when I play this card (or buy this event), I know I'm significantly improving the chances that I win this game"
Followers
Trusty Stead
Princess
Chapel, when it's from Black Market deck
Ambassador, when it's from BM deck
Tournament, when it's from BM deck
you get the idea
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Champion
Donate
Chapel
Rebuild
Teacher
Wharf
Mercenary
Goons
Cultist
King's Court
I guess. These are the cards that are the least ignorable, in my view. In that sense, I don't regard Fortune thát high (although I didn't play with it). It is very good, but I feel it also has a very high cost in games with lack of draw. King's Court is the most debatable, but there's almost always a card it is at least solid to use on.
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Champion
Teacher
Donate
King's Court
Goons
Cultist
Mountebank
Fortune
City Quarter
Salt the Earth
Here's my ten, not in order. Leaning toward Donate, Goons, KC, Teacher.
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First of all, Events aren't cards, they're "card-shaped-objects" in semi-official DX canon.
But more importantly:
define it how you'd like
makes this entire discussion virtually meaningless. At the very least, it requires a re-framing.
If you are allowing people to use their own criteria, then you are not looking for the "Greatest" card, you are looking for the community's "Favorite" card, a purely subjective measurement.
In which case, Roadrunner is entirely reasonable in nominating Scout because there is no objective criterion by which it can be dismissed. It is his favorite card.
Any discussion where that makes sense definitely needs some tighter ground rules.
Also, I would submit that the Ace of Spades is the greatest card in the majority of traditional card games. The Queen of Spades is only the highest ranking card in a few systems, such as the point values in Hearts, and has special meaning in Pinochle. Most other games put Ace as the highest rank, and most games (such as Bridge) rank Spades the highest suit. (Shout out to Duplicate Bridge players. And no I'm not talking about gaining a second copy of a cost-reducing action, or playing two cost-reducers in order to gain a second copy of Province.)
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Queen of Spades
King of Spades is strictly better [/misogyny]
Hearts and Pinochle beg to differ. :p
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trusty steed
disciple
teacher
champion
king's court
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Donate
Ambassador
King's Court
City Quarter
Goons
Pathfinding
Inheritance
Cultist
Mountebank
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Donate
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"Depends on the board"
Could you construct a board where a T1 champion would be a bad idea?
That seems pretty easy: all treasures/no attacks.
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Queen of Spades
King of Spades is strictly better [/misogyny]
Hearts and Pinochle beg to differ. :p
I've gotta give you this one...I'm a poker player.
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First of all, Events aren't cards, they're "card-shaped-objects" in semi-official DX canon.
But more importantly:
define it how you'd like
makes this entire discussion virtually meaningless. At the very least, it requires a re-framing.
If you are allowing people to use their own criteria, then you are not looking for the "Greatest" card, you are looking for the community's "Favorite" card, a purely subjective measurement.
Thank you. Someone has to be Debbie Downer.
I'm just hoping to have some fun with this. Feel free to skip this if the lack of specific criteria ruins the experience for you.
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Someone has to be Debbie Downer. I'm just hoping to have some fun with this. Feel free to skip this if the lack of specific criteria ruins the experience for you.
Hey, you're talking to the guy who doesn't even like the QVist rankings. I can criticize just about anything! Don't take it personally.
Actually, if I didn't think it was worth doing, I wouldn't have commented on it at all. I actually like the idea of rating all the cards as a community (as opposed to ranking them) and have posted extensively on the possibility of compiling ratings that would take cost into account.
So in a way, this subject could theoretically be a tiny first step in this direction. (But only if we were explicitly taking cost into account.)
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Chapel
King's Court
Champion/Teacher
Tournament
Goons
Mountebank
Cultist
Wharf
Artificer
Lost Arts
You get 10 spots on the ballot--you must cut one of these in order for me to count this
Whoops, sorry! Please drop Artificer
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I can't believe no one has nominated Colony.
Colony
Goons
King's Court
Mountebank
Wharf
Champion
Teacher
Trusty Steed
City Quarter
Dominate
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dominate > colony; the numbers are there
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Rebuild
King's Court
Cultists
Donate
Scrying Pool
Teacher
Champion
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Bracket first round voting:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16424.0