Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: WrathOfGlod on January 31, 2012, 06:23:04 pm
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I played a game which was interesting in that adventurer played a key role.
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/31/game-20120131-151842-717ea6fa.html (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/31/game-20120131-151842-717ea6fa.html)
The game itself is pretty standard but interesting in that the adventurer takes a standard chapel-bm (fool's gold) deck and allows it to hit megaturns
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Nicely done, though I am interested in seeing how it would have worked against a stronger opponent. If your opponent had played more seriously for FGs he would have had 6 of them by turn 5.
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My opponent was playing badly obviously but it still seems surprising that chapel with no engine can get 6 provs in 14 turns (not even with that much luck).
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FG/chapel is pretty good. Beats BM/Envoy in sims even without Adventurer. And Adventurer fits in great into the deck.
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FG/Chapel/Stables is even better. With a +Buy, of course.
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If you have stables then you can build an engine and adventurer is pretty worthless
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Adventurer is much better than people give it credit for. It's great to have one when your deck starts greening or if there's too much junk in your deck from cursing. It's good for games with discard attacks as well.
Is it always going to be better than gold? No, of course not! Yet I've had a number of games where the only reason I won was because I recognized that Adventurer was the right card to pick up.
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Adventurer is great when you have Copper trashing but other junk you can't get rid of. Adventurer+Moneylender+Cursing, for example. I haven't tried it with Fool's Gold, though. That sounds like an excellent way to connect those up in situations where you just can't Chapel down.
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A really nice idea to play Adventurer/FG. Never thought of that.
I mostly dislike Adventurer because for $6 I can buy Gold instead which is mostly better than Adventurer. But in a deck with enough FG's you don't want to buy Gold. So why not Adventurer with $6?
EDIT: Played some quick solo test games with FG/Adventurer without trashing. Conclusion is: If you have $6 and the choice to buy another FG or an Adventurer, take the FG. (Should have been clear from the comparison between Gold and Adventurer.)
It may be interesting if the FG's are gone. Or for the megaturn with Chapel and +buy of course.
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Adventurer works best in colony games with trashing. Plats make adventurer much stronger as for six coin you can effectively play 18 coin worth of treasure. One of the more powerful combos I like is forge/adventurer in colony games. You have the time to forge all the coppers, estates and early actions into plats & the odd silver or gold. You can then green up to some massive degree and just keep hitting the adventurer all day (e.g. if your deck is 2 plats, a gold, a few adventurers, a forge, and green you get at least a province every time you hit an adventurer, a duchy when you hit a plat and a colony when you hit a treasure & an adventurer).
Another strong setup for adventurer is apothecary. You can use the apothecaries to snag most of the copper out of your deck and then use the adventurer to move past the green and get to a province. I particularly like apothecary/golem/adventurer.
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Adventurer works best in colony games with trashing. Plats make adventurer much stronger as for six coin you can effectively play 18 coin worth of treasure. One of the more powerful combos I like is forge/adventurer in colony games. You have the time to forge all the coppers, estates and early actions into plats & the odd silver or gold. You can then green up to some massive degree and just keep hitting the adventurer all day (e.g. if your deck is 2 plats, a gold, a few adventurers, a forge, and green you get at least a province every time you hit an adventurer, a duchy when you hit a plat and a colony when you hit a treasure & an adventurer).
Another strong setup for adventurer is apothecary. You can use the apothecaries to snag most of the copper out of your deck and then use the adventurer to move past the green and get to a province. I particularly like apothecary/golem/adventurer.
The thing about adventurer is that it works well in such a narrowly defined set of kingdoms, it needs to be a kingdom with reasonably strong trashing, no good engine, a +buy (otherwise you run into the bank problem), and no strong late game attacks, those kingdom characteristics are really pretty low probability
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Adventurer works best in colony games with trashing. Plats make adventurer much stronger as for six coin you can effectively play 18 coin worth of treasure. One of the more powerful combos I like is forge/adventurer in colony games. You have the time to forge all the coppers, estates and early actions into plats & the odd silver or gold. You can then green up to some massive degree and just keep hitting the adventurer all day (e.g. if your deck is 2 plats, a gold, a few adventurers, a forge, and green you get at least a province every time you hit an adventurer, a duchy when you hit a plat and a colony when you hit a treasure & an adventurer).
Another strong setup for adventurer is apothecary. You can use the apothecaries to snag most of the copper out of your deck and then use the adventurer to move past the green and get to a province. I particularly like apothecary/golem/adventurer.
The thing about adventurer is that it works well in such a narrowly defined set of kingdoms, it needs to be a kingdom with reasonably strong trashing, no good engine, a +buy (otherwise you run into the bank problem), and no strong late game attacks, those kingdom characteristics are really pretty low probability
Actually I think Adventurer is usually better on boards without +buy. Its niche, near as I can tell, is basically Chapel*-Big Money decks that would be liable to choke on green otherwise, especially if you're stuck Duchy dancing. If you have +Buy, it makes more sense to put off greening for a couple turns; what Adventurer does instead is give tiny decks that only have, say, two Golds and two Silver more longevity in the face of slow greening. In that sort of setup +Buy is less of an issue because you want to just get to $8 each turn.
*Other strong trashing options can be substituted for Chapel, of course.
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This is my favorite example of Adventurer use: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110811-125536-2918fff9.html
My opponent was going to win this one without the Adventurer anyway, but it was clearly the right move. A little more of an engine, perhaps, but still lots of Gold and green: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110811-125536-2918fff9.html
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The thing about adventurer is that it works well in such a narrowly defined set of kingdoms, it needs to be a kingdom with reasonably strong trashing, no good engine, a +buy (otherwise you run into the bank problem), and no strong late game attacks, those kingdom characteristics are really pretty low probability
I don't see the need for the +buy. Adventurer works great in heavily green decks with just a few big treasures. Consider a deck with 4 treasures - 2 plats & 2 golds, lets say you have 2 colonies, 3 provinces, a trasher, and 2 adventurers. Your average hand would have 1 - 2 treasures & an adventurer. This is a colony. In fact, you can green this sucker without care as most of the time you will hit at least a province.
So you end up with a hand of 18 coin and can only buy a colony ... you likely cycled past a lot of dead cards and if you pull another adventurer your next hand ... then you will most likely get a province. One of the strongest setups, I think, is forge/adventurer. Forge allows you to crunch early game cards (like baron, chancellor, steward, contraband, quarry, etc.) into plats (3 silvers make a plat, a 4 a silver & an estate make a plat, and a 5 & two estates make a plat), got rid of the coppers, and perhaps even crunch two silvers into an adventurer. 3 plats & a gold can last forever with an adventurer - cycle past the green & buy colonies most every turn from pretty early in the game.
If there are +buys on the board then it may well be better to forge into some draw engine and set up a couple of 22 coin hands.
Likewise I'm not sure what late game attack you are scared about? Cursers tend to deplete and frankly you will blow past most of the curses you get anyways. Hand size reducers are immaterial - you keep a treasure & an adventurer and play the latter - buy colony. Top deck muckers (like spy, bureaucrat, or ghost ship) are going to lose a lot of bit as you can play adventurer & tag a colony. Even something like swindler is pretty hard to use effectively, they can turn your adventurers into golds (or vice-versa) but odds are low and they run a real danger in swindling colonies -> colonies (or provinces -> provinces) and letting you get a free 4 point swing on their last turn.
I find adventurer to be particularly good when there are late game attacks (like rabble) kicking around.
Yeah, adventurer needs good trashing and has to beat out any potential engine, but it works well in games where you have plats (so it is easily worth more than the gold) and where you are going to go all green pretty quick.
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I think it's been mentioned before that Hinterlands seems to have greatly balanced the game by countering previously dominant cards and boosting previously weak ones. I think Adventurer is an example of that. Adventurer/Stables is pretty strong and fast, and Adv/Tunnel is just ridiculous.
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I've never played Adventurer/Tunnel, but it seems horrible?
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I've never played Adventurer/Tunnel, but it seems horrible?
Once set up, it's quite good.
Getting it set up, on the other hand, is a real pain. It needs a good bit of help to be anything more than an extremely slight improvement on big money.
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I've never played Adventurer/Tunnel, but it seems horrible?
Once set up, it's quite good.
Getting it set up, on the other hand, is a real pain. It needs a good bit of help to be anything more than an extremely slight improvement on big money.
Would you say that it's better or worse in heavy Cursing games?
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I've never played Adventurer/Tunnel, but it seems horrible?
Once set up, it's quite good.
Getting it set up, on the other hand, is a real pain. It needs a good bit of help to be anything more than an extremely slight improvement on big money.
Would you say that it's better or worse in heavy Cursing games?
Hard to say without seeing
A)what kind of cursing are we talking
B) What else is on the board.
Tunnel in general is a little better with heavy cursing, I think. Then again, I don't have a GREAT feel for it.
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Tunnel makes Adventurer better, but by itself Adventurer doesn't turn on Tunnel in any meaningful way. You need either good copper trashing or good other Tunnel enablers, or mediocre of both or whatever, to make Adventurer work in a worthwhile manner with Tunnel. That said, on a board with at least some copper trashing where Tunnel is good without Adventurer, the latter definitely becomes quite good.
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I've got a killer simulator script for adventurer/tunnel with a couple of other handy kingdom cards. So yes, it can work.
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Tunnel makes Adventurer better, but by itself Adventurer doesn't turn on Tunnel in any meaningful way. You need either good copper trashing or good other Tunnel enablers, or mediocre of both or whatever, to make Adventurer work in a worthwhile manner with Tunnel. That said, on a board with at least some copper trashing where Tunnel is good without Adventurer, the latter definitely becomes quite good.
Tunnel would get pretty crazy with Adventurer, Venture, Loan, and Golem. Of course, you'd be playing with yourself* that you probably wouldn't notice your opponent snatching up the Provinces.
Actually, just Adventurer and Venture would be pretty good with Tunnel. Throw in some Markets for +Buy, and you could probably get by with just buying those three cards. It probably still wouldn't be fast since Adventurer is normally a slow card to get going.
*That's right; I went there.