Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: werothegreat on April 16, 2016, 11:02:09 am
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Usually, we remember good cards - Witch, Cultist, Rebuild, Mountebank, Jack of all Trades, Magpie - or we remember absolutely shitty cards - Scout, Counting House, Scout, Develop, Scout - or we remember interesting/weird cards - Band of Misfits, Rats, Wine Merchant, Advisor. But there are some cards that aren't quite shitty enough to be memorable, but aren't really good/interesting enough to be remembered either. Cards where you know what they do, but you don't really automatically think of them when trying to build a kingdom. Cards that you subconsciously skip over when looking over the board.
For me, a few cards like this are:
Royal Seal
Explorer
Merchant Ship
Harvest
Trade Route
What can we do to see these cards get their due? Do they deserve any attention in the first place? What cards do you forget about?
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Navigator, Scavanger, that one five cost card that sifts
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If you hadnīt posted them, I would have definitely forgotten about Explorer and Harvest.
Would add Harem and Mine to the list.
The only reason I still know that Scout exists is because I visit this forum and there are more posts about that card than any other.
I am pretty sure that half of my game group has all forgotten about Scout. If it shows up in the randomizer we switch it out for another card or we might as well play with only 9 kingdom cards. The Scout cards are still pretty much in Mint condition ;-)
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Cards you forget exist
11th card when I fail to notice Young Witch is on the board :P
On a serious note, cards I ignore are usually ones that are bad in majority of the kingdoms they appear in - as soon as I see them on the board, I usually don't bother with a serious thought. It has, unfortunately, more than once caused me to miss some actually useful Royal Seal, Scout, Stash or Rats combos.
On the other hand, my criteria are completely arbitrary. There are several other suboptimal cards which aren't worth buying most of the time, and yet I find them cool and wonder if can I somehow include them in my deck: cards such as Harvest, Saboteur, Adventurer, Coppersmith etc.
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Transmute. I can't even tell exactly how it works. I just know you trash stuff and you get Gold, Duchiy or Transmute depending on the type, but I wouldn't be able to tell what exactly you trash to get which thing.
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Transmute. I can't even tell exactly how it works. I just know you trash stuff and you get Gold, Duchiy or Transmute depending on the type, but I wouldn't be able to tell what exactly you trash to get which thing.
I remember the coolest one - Estates to Gold - and then build up from there.
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I almost always end up forgetting that Stonemason is on the board and end up paying $7 for a $5 when I could have gotten two $5s. I'm getting a little better at this but still miss it a lot.
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My list of Forgettable Cards, in no particular order:
Cache, Expand, Thief, Navigator. Probably some others, but they wouldn't be very unmemorable if I could recall them here, don't you think?
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Develop may be niche, but it's a good card. Better than some in your forgettable list.
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Remodel is the most forgettable card in Dominion, which is why nobody has mentioned it. It even took me a while: "I remember there was a 4-cost in the base set which is super forgettable because it doesn't do anything special, maybe terminal... what was is???"
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Remodel is the most forgettable card in Dominion, which is why nobody has mentioned it. It even took me a while: "I remember there was a 4-cost in the base set which is super forgettable because it doesn't do anything special, maybe terminal... what was is???"
Except that it encourages engines on many boards where they otherwise wouldn't be viable, including the First Game engine.
Sage is probably the most forgettable card to me. A boring and mediocre card in a set filled to the brim with interesting stuff.
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If you guys actually want to find out which cards are actually the most forgettable to you, the Sporcle Quiz (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13752.0) is a good starting point.
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If you guys actually want to find out which cards are actually the most forgettable to you, the Sporcle Quiz (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13752.0) is a good starting point.
But they're different every time. I forgot Chapel one time.
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If you guys actually want to find out which cards are actually the most forgettable to you, the Sporcle Quiz (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13752.0) is a good starting point.
No! Don't look at my results! They undermine my point! :-[
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Remodel is the most forgettable card in Dominion, which is why nobody has mentioned it. It even took me a while: "I remember there was a 4-cost in the base set which is super forgettable because it doesn't do anything special, maybe terminal... what was is???"
Except that it encourages engines on many boards where they otherwise wouldn't be viable, including the First Game engine.
Sage is probably the most forgettable card to me. A boring and mediocre card in a set filled to the brim with interesting stuff.
I interpreted the question as what card you never think of while thinking about Dominion, not when it's in the kingdom. E.g. the sporcle quiz as ehalcyon suggested.
EDIT: Sporcle quiz says sage actually is the most forgettable, while remodel isn't at all. Probably expansion bias though, base set v. Dark ages.
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Navigator, Scavanger, that one five cost card that sifts
Scavenger is a fantastic card. You have to consider Scavenger on any board it's on for sure.
Cards I almost always end up skipping are those lame $5 cost Treasures, like Stash and Royal Seal. Those new Treasure Trove and Relic cards are going to be pretty nice though.
Navigator is something I never buy. Sage is so forgettable, though it's a great cycler in the beginning of the game. Workshop is probably on this list, since we're all spoiled with Ironworks. Treasury is a card I don't really like buying either, it's like a worse Market because there's no +buy. Yes, yes.. It's a free copper a turn, but that's really lame for a $5 purchase. I feel like Caravan Guard is going to eventually be on this list for most people.
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For me, the older the expansion is, the more I forget the cards. I forget about Madman and Vagrant a lot, because when I got Dark Ages, I often played one or two games with lots of the cards and moved on.
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Councellor, I think.
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Councellor, I think.
Chancellor? That's a very forgettable card for sure.
Might as well add Spy, and there's also Secret Chamber. Secret Chamber is bad, but it's not all terrible in Double Tactician decks. The only card I can't think of any use for so far is Harvest. Maybe if it's a 9 Scout 1 Harvest kingdom. Harvest BM is better than BM.
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Two good cards that I often overlook out of sheer distraction are Quarry and Talisman. Maybe because they're yellow, or maybe because my subconscious goes: "Copper variant, pass". I don't know.
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Two good cards that I often overlook out of sheer distraction are Quarry and Talisman. Maybe because they're yellow, or maybe because my subconscious goes: "Copper variant, pass". I don't know.
Talisman is more skippable unless there's a power $4 card you want so badly, usually the only village in the kingdom with huge engine potential. Quarry is not very skippable at all most of the time. With Quarry, you can spike Goons early, and it's much better than Silver for Action card purchases. It's just such a good card.
A treasure card I skip a lot is Venture. I don't know why, it's not a terrible card. I just don't like it much.
Develop is a trashing card often ignored. If you have to thin, you have to thin. It's a decent card with Fortress, if you want a $3 and a $5 cost, though that's so freaking rare.
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Hot Air Balloon. Whatever happened to that card?
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Hot Air Balloon. Whatever happened to that card?
AdamH took that card with him to Reddit.
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Two good cards that I often overlook out of sheer distraction are Quarry and Talisman. Maybe because they're yellow, or maybe because my subconscious goes: "Copper variant, pass". I don't know.
Talisman is more skippable unless there's a power $4 card you want so badly, usually the only village in the kingdom with huge engine potential. Quarry is not very skippable at all most of the time. With Quarry, you can spike Goons early, and it's much better than Silver for Action card purchases. It's just such a good card.
A treasure card I skip a lot is Venture. I don't know why, it's not a terrible card. I just don't like it much.
Develop is a trashing card often ignored. If you have to thin, you have to thin. It's a decent card with Fortress, if you want a $3 and a $5 cost, though that's so freaking rare.
Quarry is a $4 gold for action cards (and even better if there is +buy).
I once played a weird game. It was a slog kind of game, but still with a lot of trashing. It ended up with me having a couple of ventures and maybe one or two golds. So every time I had a venture, I was able to buy a province or a dutchy, because of the combined ventures+golds. I should have saved it, it was cool.
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Transmute. I can't even tell exactly how it works. I just know you trash stuff and you get Gold, Duchiy or Transmute depending on the type, but I wouldn't be able to tell what exactly you trash to get which thing.
I remember the coolest one - Estates to Gold - and then build up from there.
By the time you buy Potion, buy Transmute, get Transmute to line up with Estate, and trash it to get Gold... You would have already had Gold, and you wouldn't have lame ol' Transmute and a dead Potion card.
I once played a weird game. It was a slog kind of game, but still with a lot of trashing. It ended up with me having a couple of ventures and maybe one or two golds. So every time I had a venture, I was able to buy a province or a dutchy, because of the combined ventures+golds. I should have saved it, it was cool.
Venture is great in Slogs.
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that one five cost card that sifts
Took me all day to authentically (without looking it up online or pulling out the expansion) remember this card. Cartographer... I honestly, can't remember the last time I bought that card, but probably should far more often.
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that one five cost card that sifts
Took me all day to authentically (without looking it up online or pulling out the expansion) remember this card. Cartographer... I honestly, can't remember the last time I bought that card, but probably should far more often.
Cartographer is one of those cards whose only purpose is to make your deck run smoother. It doesn't help you gain extra cards, doesn't attack, doesn't do funny tricks, but two otherwise identical decks, one of which has Cartographer, the other does not - the Cartographer deck is going to win. It's for similar reasons that Wandering Minstrel is so good.
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that one five cost card that sifts
Took me all day to authentically (without looking it up online or pulling out the expansion) remember this card. Cartographer... I honestly, can't remember the last time I bought that card, but probably should far more often.
Cartographer is one of those cards whose only purpose is to make your deck run smoother. It doesn't help you gain extra cards, doesn't attack, doesn't do funny tricks, but two otherwise identical decks, one of which has Cartographer, the other does not - the Cartographer deck is going to win. It's for similar reasons that Wandering Minstrel is so good.
I'm personally a fan of Cartographer. It's expensive, but you get some good sifting, and when you string them together, you can often control exactly what you draw.
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Cartographer is well priced at 5. It can certainly be a better buy than lab, but not always. Crudely, it's a good buy when your median card value is lower than your mean. Which is most of the game, and that's not including the value you get from ordering cards. Cartographer also works well with mine,
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Transmute. I can't even tell exactly how it works. I just know you trash stuff and you get Gold, Duchiy or Transmute depending on the type, but I wouldn't be able to tell what exactly you trash to get which thing.
I remember the coolest one - Estates to Gold - and then build up from there.
By the time you buy Potion, buy Transmute, get Transmute to line up with Estate, and trash it to get Gold... You would have already had Gold, and you wouldn't have lame ol' Transmute and a dead Potion card.
I never said that you should buy Transmute to remodel your Estates, it's usually a terrible idea. i was just sharing the system I use to remember Transmute's effect.
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Cartographer is well priced at 5. It can certainly be a better buy than lab, but not always. Crudely, it's a good buy when your median card value is lower than your mean. Which is most of the game, and that's not including the value you get from ordering cards. Cartographer also works well with mine,
I don't think it's that Cartographer is bad, I think it's just one of the most vanilla and unremarkable cards in Dominion. It's really effective at what it does, it's just that it's somewhat redundant with very strong draw or trashing - and these cards are often 5s that compete with Cartographer.
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Cartographer is well priced at 5. It can certainly be a better buy than lab, but not always. Crudely, it's a good buy when your median card value is lower than your mean. Which is most of the game, and that's not including the value you get from ordering cards. Cartographer also works well with mine,
I don't think it's that Cartographer is bad, I think it's just one of the most vanilla and unremarkable cards in Dominion. It's really effective at what it does, it's just that it's somewhat redundant with very strong draw or trashing - and these cards are often 5s that compete with Cartographer.
Well, it's something buy when you start greening, or when there's junking. Or Tunnel.
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Having 2 or 3 Cartographers in your deck is just so good. The reordering ability that Cartographer has is why Apothecary is so darn good, and you also get to discard? That's good! I don't like Cartographer much, but it's a solid card, and should be considered on every board.
I'll say this, and it's worth repeating over and over: Cycling is good. It's better in the early game, and it does get worse when you start greening, but overall, cycling is a big deal. This is why Warehouse is so great. This is why Apothecary is great. It's not just the Copper draw, it's the cycling that comes out of it all too. Discarding dead cards with Cartographer prevents bad cards from entering your hand, but it also lets you cycle faster. This cannot be understated.
This is why towards an end of a shuffle, you might just discard all your Coppers and Silvers and that one Hamlet with Cartographer, just to get faster cycling. It's highly situational, of course.
(Awaclus case: You have another draw card, so you'd leave the Hamlet and Silver, draw the Hamlet and the Silver for extra economy. If you can do that, great. Just making a general example about cycling and Cartographer's discard ability.)
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The only card I can't think of any use for so far is Harvest. Maybe if it's a 9 Scout 1 Harvest kingdom. Harvest BM is better than BM.
I've had several games where I've given my opponents Harvest with Swindler (later when I don't want to run the Duchies) and they've used them to buy Provinces and win. So that's why I remember Harvest.
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Poor House. Until I Upgrade a Copper, and then realize I'm forced to gain one of those!
Councellor, I think.
I was in a 4p tourney with P/C, and the player that utilized Chancellor kicked our asses.... 80-ish, 55, 53, 35.
It's not always worth it, and even when it is viable, I'll admit I'm lazy and don't like to keep track of things to THAT detail.
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Poor House. Until I Upgrade a Copper, and then realize I'm forced to gain one of those!
I hate that so much.
I'll admit I'm lazy and don't like to keep track of things to THAT detail.
Keeping track of your deck is one of the primary things separating a good player and a great player. It's a good skill to have, even if it takes a lot of time and is annoying at first. It becomes second nature, sort of like driving, and you can take that skill and put it into other games as well. :)