Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Puzzles and Challenges => Topic started by: sudgy on March 30, 2015, 08:51:22 pm
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Based on this:
I think there's definitely a hard limit at 1 turn, unless DXV previews a new card...
Celestial Chameleon
Cost $7
Action-Victory-Event
When you buy this, gain every other card in the supply. Gain 10 points for each card you gain.
Setup: When playing with Celestial Chameleon, add every Kingdom card to the Supply. Then watch as he still empties them all.
Empty the supply with all kingdom cards in the game (let's not include Adventures cards until all cards are known) as fast as possible in a solitaire game. Colonies and Platinums are here. Black Market is here but there are no cards in the BM deck.
As a bonus, if possible, empty all non-supply piles as well.
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Without the bonus, this is exactly the same. 4 turns single player, 3 turns two player, 2 turns 3+ players. The extra piles don't make it any harder. The bonus is probably also possible, but harder.
Oh wait, no cards in the BM deck? That really changes things actually...
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According to the wiki, there are 263 cards, though there's an issue where Lost Arts is a card and not an Event. So really there should be 257 cards, give or take, including Adventures previews. So you'll need somewhere in the order of 2500 buys/gains to get the whole supply. You can probably cut that number by 11 using 10 Hagglers, so you'll need roughly 200 buys or so, though cost reduction might have to be applied carefully.
I figure you start with the CC solution and work your way up, adding even more and more things. CC's solution has only 84 buys in it, so you'll need some way to come up with more. Also, you'll need to find another efficient way other than Black Market of getting lots of really useful different cards costing more than $4. I figure it can be done in 10 turns or less, BM isn't so indispensable that it can't be overcome with a few extra turns of building up. It just makes the combo much faster to set up.
It might also be easier to not end the game, reduce the relevant piles to 1, and take two or three turns after your combo is going to empty the supply, rather than trying to cram in more buys/gains into a single turn. You lose out on 1/10th of your power, but you double it at the cost of taking an extra turn. Also, you might be able to set up events like Inheritance that would help you cram in even more buys; imagine Inheriting King's Court for even more tripling.
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Dude, you gave the entire kingdom to gain and play to get enough money and buys. However if the BM deck is truly empty it is impossible.
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Dude, you gave the entire kingdom to gain and play to get enough money and buys. However if the BM deck is truly empty it is impossible.
The requirement was never to empty it in 4 turns or whatever. Why would it be impossible? With an infinite number of turns, yoy can eventually empty the supply even if you just buy 1 card a turn. The question is how fast the supply can be emptied.
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Dude, you gave the entire kingdom to gain and play to get enough money and buys. However if the BM deck is truly empty it is impossible.
The requirement was never to empty it in 4 turns or whatever. Why would it be impossible? With an infinite number of turns, yoy can eventually empty the supply even if you just buy 1 card a turn. The question is how fast the supply can be emptied.
Well the game would end, but it is easily possible to take the last card from each pile in a single turn. It isn't possible in a low number of turns is what I meant, because you can't gain and play nearly as many cards in a single turn. Pending more adventures cards, of course.
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Black Market is useful, but losing the ability to buy cards with it can't change the turn count by more than a couple, can it? I don't see this taking more than like 5 turns.
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Dude, you gave the entire kingdom to gain and play to get enough money and buys. However if the BM deck is truly empty it is impossible.
The requirement was never to empty it in 4 turns or whatever. Why would it be impossible? With an infinite number of turns, yoy can eventually empty the supply even if you just buy 1 card a turn. The question is how fast the supply can be emptied.
Well the game would end, but it is easily possible to take the last card from each pile in a single turn. It isn't possible in a low number of turns is what I meant, because you can't gain and play nearly as many cards in a single turn. Pending more adventures cards, of course.
I forgot about the 3-pile rule.
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So we know it's possible to Procession-Fortress-Watchtower explode on Turn 3 now. You can then easily pick up all the Hagglers you need and the Actions to use them. You end up with a bunch of Hagglers in play and no way to gain cards with them mid-turn turn but at the end of the turn you could buy a couple Provinces to sweep the King's Courts and then get whatever else you need; you'll just have to wait to next turn to use the,. I'd have to work out the details to be sure, but I don't see anything holding this back farther than Turn 4.
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So we know it's possible to Procession-Fortress-Watchtower explode on Turn 3 now. You can then easily pick up all the Hagglers you need and the Actions to use them. You end up with a bunch of Hagglers in play and no way to gain cards with them mid-turn turn but at the end of the turn you could buy a couple Provinces to sweep the King's Courts and then get whatever else you need; you'll just have to wait to next turn to use the,. I'd have to work out the details to be sure, but I don't see anything holding this back farther than Turn 4.
You can make everything cheep with bridge or something, but I'm not sure where you get all the buys. I just am not sure if you can gain enough +buy during turns 3 and 4 without mid-turn haggler gains. There probably is a way though, if not with current cards, with something in adventures.
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Now that I think about it, Potion-cost cards will be a frustration. Hagglers can't gain Possessions, but as long as you have no more than $5 of cost reduction, buying the Possessions with a nine Hagglers in play will get you the others. But you do need the 10 Potions to actually buy them.
Not necessarily something that couldn't be accomplished Turn 4, but it definitely increases the Turn 3 work needed.
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Now that I think about it, Potion-cost cards will be a frustration. Hagglers can't gain Possessions, but as long as you have no more than $5 of cost reduction, buying the Possessions with a nine Hagglers in play will get you the others. But you do need the 10 Potions to actually buy them.
Not necessarily something that couldn't be accomplished Turn 4, but it definitely increases the Turn 3 work needed.
Another way to get Potion cost cards could be trashed Squires, but I don't know if you'd rather use that gain for a better attack; Scrying Pool is pretty good though when you're in the middle of gaining a Supply that is mostly Actions.
You can get all the Potion cost cards without ever needing to play Potion, using Squires, Remodels, Develops, and Stonemasons. Probably not worth the effort though when you can just buy Potion. Feels like the lead-in to another puzzle though...