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[yuma]

Oh I get it now.  You are saying I was flailing to get a wagon going on someone else

You and he both.

[yuma]

I agree that my votes on the ADK wagon look bad, but IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE THAT HE WOULD QUICKHAMMER!  I'm not scum!

I am not saying it makes sense that he would quickhammer. I mean that doesn't make sense if you are scum or if you aren't scum. That was just a bad move. Period. It was unnecessary in any setting. He had a good chance of not being lynched. As a result I am concluding that the reason he quickhammered didn't have anything to do with strategy because the best strategy would be to claim and try to not get lynched.

So instead it looked like he was giving up. So it doesn't matter that you were willing to hammer because his other bad decision supersedes this and shows that strategy and winning stopped being a priority for him (if my estimation is correct of the situation... maybe he really thought that was the best play, regardless of your scumbuddyness to him... but I just can't see how thinking quickhammering yourself that way is ever a good idea).

[gkrieg13]

3. My early vote on ADK had just been a sheeping of Axxle, who I had a strong townread on early in the day.  My vote had stayed there for a long time, and ADK was sounding townier at that point.  He then voted for RR, which was a bad vote and I went back to having a scummy vibe on him again.

Let's quantify long, long time. You vote for ADK here, post 208. And then you unvoted him here, post 290. So less than 100 posts later, game time was about 29 hours. So a somewhat decent amount of time during which the wagon size on ADK stayed pretty stable. Axxle got off and then on, that was about it.. And sure you say that ADK was sounding townier at that point, but what of it? Again, the context! ADK suggests voting for me, Axxle implies he might, Axxle encourages people to consolidate their votes (ADK had the most votes at that time), but instead of consolidating your vote on ADK as Axxle recommends you move it to me in hopes (do you deny it?) that a wagon would form on me instead. Attempting to shift the attention and focus from ADK to me at a time when it appears vote consolidation is about to happen. But that plan was ruined when ADK jumped all over RR in a scummy way.

I will say that I didn't say long, long time. 

I didn't hope that a wagon would form on you.  I just thought you were scummier than ADK at that point in time.  I don't think it was obvious at that time that vote consolidation was going to happen.  I was also pushing vote consolidation with Axxle

Oh I get it now.  You are saying I was flailing to get a wagon going on someone else

You and he both.

I don't think I would've tried to push another wagon at that time if I were scum.  The wagon had stayed the same for a while and looked like it was going to die off.  I don't think it was as apparent as you make it sound that the wagon was going to lynch

PPE: 1

[gkrieg13]

Man now I know how ash feels when people are mislynching him.

[yuma]

Ok. That is all good info. I have read it and considered it.

Keep in mind that I am cautiously looking over my shoulder at what I have posted to make sure that I am not being narrowly closed minded about this. I am trying to be open to what you are saying. But it is difficult because I feel really good about this, and I rarely feel this good about a lynch. When ADK was lynched and flipped this light bulb went off in my head and everything that I have gone back to find collaborate this narrative that popped up for you being scum.

I mean, you do present some good narratives and explanations. If I didn't feel as confident as I do (and I am trying to not be stupidly confident) they might be enough to make me want to vote for someone else who is as scummy or more scummy. But right now, your explanations don't do enough to make me want to stop voting for you and there is a lack of anyone else that fits the bill quite as well as you do. I mean the next closest is maybe Joseph who is pretty much a null when it comes to ADK.

[Awaclus]

Man now I know how ash feels when people are mislynching him.

Why ash in particular?

[gkrieg13]

Man now I know how ash feels when people are mislynching him.

Why ash in particular?

Mainly because I know understand why he would self-hammer. 

[gkrieg13]

Ok. That is all good info. I have read it and considered it.

Keep in mind that I am cautiously looking over my shoulder at what I have posted to make sure that I am not being narrowly closed minded about this. I am trying to be open to what you are saying. But it is difficult because I feel really good about this, and I rarely feel this good about a lynch. When ADK was lynched and flipped this light bulb went off in my head and everything that I have gone back to find collaborate this narrative that popped up for you being scum.

I mean, you do present some good narratives and explanations. If I didn't feel as confident as I do (and I am trying to not be stupidly confident) they might be enough to make me want to vote for someone else who is as scummy or more scummy. But right now, your explanations don't do enough to make me want to stop voting for you and there is a lack of anyone else that fits the bill quite as well as you do. I mean the next closest is maybe Joseph who is pretty much a null when it comes to ADK.

I don't know what else I can do to convince you.  Usually there is more game to go off of, but because D1 was super short, there isn't that much evidence on anyone.  I think ss is probably who I would look at next, because he was also on the ADK wagon and then off of it.

To be honest, there isn't that much evidence that I'm town because the day was so short.  I would look at how I reacted to the early pressure of people voting me the most.  If you have time to look at other games, you could look at how I usually respond to the pressure as scum in my most recent scum game HPII and see if it compares.  I might do that when I have time later today.

I really need to do a homework assignment, but I'm very determined to avoid my first mislynch, so I've stayed online for way longer than I should've.

[yuma]

Yeah... I mean if you are town then it is a series of unfortunate events that aligned to make you look sufficiently scummy. There isn't much you can do about that. I mean your tone and attitude right now make me feel townier on you but not enough to make me want to move my vote, partially because that is just totally gut based and I don't like being manipulated (manipulated is the wrong word, but can't think of a better one) by tone and attitude.

But really, I just think you are mafia in a bad situation doing a pretty good job of trying to convince others to not lynch you. So good job to you either way, I think you have done a decent job of trying your best to not get lynched... it just isn't enough for me. And who knows... maybe this is working on other people and you won't get lynched.

ss is a decent place to look, you are right. As you both have similar behaviors in regard to the ADK wagon. But the circumstances of your interactions are much more scummy than his.

[silverspawn]

productive wagon. I approve. However let us unvote as I don't think gkrieg is actually scum

vote: Awaclus

[iguanaiguana]

After the rush of uncovering that herald had lied, accusations started to fly around at lightning speed. Everyone was trying to determine who most zealously pursued his ruin.

Vote Count 2.1
Gkrieg13 (4): Yuma, Awaclus, Chairs, Witherweaver (L-2)
Joseph2302 (2): Axxle, Roadrunner7671
Awaclus (1): silverspawn
Chairs (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (2): gkrieg13, Hydrad

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 1 will be Sunday, March 13 at 11PM forum time.

[Awaclus]

productive wagon. I approve. However let us unvote as I don't think gkrieg is actually scum

vote: Awaclus

Unproductive wagon. I disapprove. You should unvote because I don't think Awaclus is actually scum.

[gkrieg13]

vote: Joseph2302

[Joseph2302]

vote: Joseph2302

Um why?

[gkrieg13]

vote: Joseph2302

Um why?

Well it was between you and ss and he seemed less scummy.

[chairs]

vote: gkrieg THIS IS L-1 ALERT THIS IS L-1

Why would you do this?

I don't think "avoiding L-1" is worth "not expressing your opinion", and voting is how you express your opinion most succintly in mafia.

[Roadrunner7671]

vote: gkrieg THIS IS L-1 ALERT THIS IS L-1

Why would you do this?

I don't think "avoiding L-1" is worth "not expressing your opinion", and voting is how you express your opinion most succintly in mafia.

You could've said 'consider me on the wagon' or 'intent to hammer' or something.

[yuma]

vote: gkrieg THIS IS L-1 ALERT THIS IS L-1

Why would you do this?

I don't think "avoiding L-1" is worth "not expressing your opinion", and voting is how you express your opinion most succintly in mafia.

You could've said 'consider me on the wagon' or 'intent to hammer' or something.

and then gotten flak for not putting his money where his mouth is and people wouldn't have taken it seriously and maybe we wouldn't have obtained the response that we did from gkireg (not that it changed my mind, but there is a scenario where gkrieg of either alignment does something to indicate to the mass of us his alignment that he otherwise would not have done if he weren't at L-1. Pressure voting just for the sake of pressure voting, but so is not voting when you have a specific scum read on someone...

chairs did nothing wrong

[gkrieg13]

vote: gkrieg THIS IS L-1 ALERT THIS IS L-1

Why would you do this?

I don't think "avoiding L-1" is worth "not expressing your opinion", and voting is how you express your opinion most succintly in mafia.

You could've said 'consider me on the wagon' or 'intent to hammer' or something.

Anything that isn't hammering is a good vote.  We only do intent to hammer because we want to give someone a last chance to say something.  If anyone had hammered me, they would've been the prime lynch candidate tomorrow.

[Hydrad]

True.

I suggest everyone evaluate your current vote and ask yourself if it would be better placed elsewhere.

I don't really like a Hydrad vote here.  ADK has been sounding townier, so I guess I should move my vote.  faust seems town to me.

vote: yuma

I don't like the votes on chairs, Awaclus, and RR.  Not only do they dilute wagons, they just don't seem like very good votes.

Look there!

I don't really want to vote for WW, but I would be fine voting for ss.

You should rather vote for scum.

Then say so when you vote? I guess... Do what ever you want. I am not your mom. And maybe my vote is Omgus partially but that doesn't mean my point isn't valid. And why aren't you voting for ss then?

mhhhhh

I'm not trying to change the subject on purpose/talk about irrelevant things, but can we talk about Masons?

-Is it a good idea to claim Masons as scum?
-Should Masons out each other to become ICs ever?
-If so, when?
-If you know your Mason buddy is an IC, should you claim to save them?
-If you're a Mason who's about to get lynched, should you out your partner to save yourself as a VT?
-As a PR?

errr where is this coming from? Let the masons decide that.

Trying to get people to talk about PRs when there's no reason to is scummy.

Scum or not,  I agree with that.

7 days is nothing

7 days is 7 days. Don't make this blitz. Or we could blitz vote you. That could be fun.

subtly discouraging the ADK wagon.

Okay, ADK seems sort of annoying here, but I'm not sure about scummy. Regressive? Maybe. But scummy? I'm not sure.

Looks at how hedgy I am! Isn't it awful!
But D1 reads are not my thing.
PPE

Town read on RR

Also on Hydrad for his wagon treatment and saying he's obvtown.

oh ADK self-hammers. Questionable move I think - I'd have put his lynch on like 80% or something... are 7 days really worth more than those 20%?

Oh yay faust died. so hes town. I like faust meta. In a way hes the easiest person to read .

Also. Wasn't expecting ADK to be scum there. gj people

errrrwhat? you were the deciding vote on his wagon. And you said you're okay with his lynch. So why didn't you expect him to be scum?

Yay we got scum!

Scummy

Sorry on phone so can't easily take out quote.

Basically I'm just quoting the part where ss questions my ability .

So. My thinking on the adk vote was that we were stalling. So I put him at L1 to try to get more info and stuff like that. It wasn't so much that I thought he was scum. It was more I wanted something to happen.

And also I will say I really wasn't expecting him to get lynched there. I was really expecting it to sit at L1 for a while then we would move to someone else. As that's what seems to kinda happen day1. At least that's what I thought.

So ya that's my explanation.

[Axxle]

I don't think gkrieg would have acted how he did when the WW wagon was forming if he was ADK's buddy (unless he was planning on hard buddying me, but it's hard to imagine someone being that bold)

This vote by Hydrad is pretty bad in retrospect, happening immediately after Faust votes for ADK.

gut feeling for now.

But I might go Vote: faust

[Axxle]

Also we should probably figure out why Faust was targeted.

[Joseph2302]

Vote: ss.

To me, the scummiest of the people off-wagon, and I'm pretty certain there was 1 scum off-wagon.

[silverspawn]

does it help if I guarantee you that you are not lynching me today?

[Awaclus]

does it help if I guarantee you that you are not lynching me today?

Yeah, as long as you can explain it later if it ever becomes necessary.