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[pacovf]

Other stuff: too many investigative roles. Waaaaaay too many. A full cop, a 1-shot cop, a tracker, and House Lannister (Even if House Lannister's empowered power wasn't a full investigative power, the fact is, with that many investigative powers flying around, "paying your debts" would be more likely to investigate someone than anything else)? No way. Simply no way. At least one person is lying, possibly even two. Or scum has a redirector...

Frankly, I believe the most likely person to lie is silverspawn. He was super quick to offer to full-claim when Voltaire proposed the idea, and was first to claim when Voltaire kinda forced the massclaim. It could be eager town... or it could be scum that absolutely wants to claim an investigative role before Ashersky, because he knows that he is going to be suspected (he even says so himself). Don't know one way or another, but considering that Voltaire's and Ashersky's claim support each other, if only one person is lying, he is the most likely.

Going down the conspiracy theory lane (this is not going to make me popular)...

 -Ash could be a scum PR that targeted Robz, because Robz. Then Voltaire tracked him, because Ash.
 -Or Ash could be a full cop that targeted Robz, because Robz. Then Voltaire was basically cornered into claiming Tracker that copped  Ash because of simultaneous claims. I say cornered, because he couldn't possibly foresee the way the massclaim was going to end, and really there was nothing else he could have done as scum once he found himself there (Ash had crumbed that he had copped Robz, so it isn't terribly unlikely).
 -Or both could be scum giving each other massive towncred.

I have trouble with the conspiracy theories, because:
-Voltaire has played a very towny game.
-Ashersky would need to have flawlessly faked a PR game since N0, both in the thread and in the QT. Seriously, reread him.
-If both are scum, it superlinks them, and why aren't they dying during the night?

[pacovf]

A couple of questions about the QTs:

-When did XP fullclaim in the QT?
-When did the discussion about saving XP from the D1 lynch start? Who did so?
-How did the discussion to make Voltaire Hand of the King go? This one really confuses me.

[Hydrad]

-How did the discussion to make Voltaire Hand of the King go? This one really confuses me.

I can answer this one.

Basically we all got into the QT and I said something pretty similar to this

"uh... so I know that people decided to not use our power. But personally I would be ok with Volt using the power if everyone else agrees"

Volt a bit later kinda states the same thing saying hes ok with someone using that hand of the king power.

azadin Votes himself while he thinks about it not realizing votes are final. Then both me and SS vote Volt and he gets the power.

[pacovf]

-How did the discussion to make Voltaire Hand of the King go? This one really confuses me.

I can answer this one.

Basically we all got into the QT and I said something pretty similar to this

"uh... so I know that people decided to not use our power. But personally I would be ok with Volt using the power if everyone else agrees"

Volt a bit later kinda states the same thing saying hes ok with someone using that hand of the king power.

azadin Votes himself while he thinks about it not realizing votes are final. Then both me and SS vote Volt and he gets the power.

You must realize that this doesn't look too good for you, given the fact that both you and silverspawn are currently the top scumreads, right?

[Hydrad]

-How did the discussion to make Voltaire Hand of the King go? This one really confuses me.

I can answer this one.

Basically we all got into the QT and I said something pretty similar to this

"uh... so I know that people decided to not use our power. But personally I would be ok with Volt using the power if everyone else agrees"

Volt a bit later kinda states the same thing saying hes ok with someone using that hand of the king power.

azadin Votes himself while he thinks about it not realizing votes are final. Then both me and SS vote Volt and he gets the power.

You must realize that this doesn't look too good for you, given the fact that both you and silverspawn are currently the top scumreads, right?

Well volt was going to say something anways or egork or even SS. May as well not try to hide it.

[pacovf]

-How did the discussion to make Voltaire Hand of the King go? This one really confuses me.

I can answer this one.

Basically we all got into the QT and I said something pretty similar to this

"uh... so I know that people decided to not use our power. But personally I would be ok with Volt using the power if everyone else agrees"

Volt a bit later kinda states the same thing saying hes ok with someone using that hand of the king power.

azadin Votes himself while he thinks about it not realizing votes are final. Then both me and SS vote Volt and he gets the power.

You must realize that this doesn't look too good for you, given the fact that both you and silverspawn are currently the top scumreads, right?

Well volt was going to say something anways or egork or even SS. May as well not try to hide it.

I know. I'm discussing what happened in the QT, not your decision to share it here.

Considering that we had agreed that Baratheon's power would not be used, and also the amount of heat you got under because of your defense of it, isn't a bit weird that you would quickly jump on the opportunity to give the power to Volt?

[pacovf]

If I recall correctly, while not everybody agreed that your heavy-handed defense of Baratheon's power made you look scummy, the only person that actually thought that Baratheon's power could be used in a pro-town way was silverspawn. Everybody else was against using it.

With that consensus in mind, I don't understand why you asked Voltaire to use it.

[Hydrad]

I thought Volt was super towny. I am fine with using that power if I think town has control of it.

[silverspawn]

Other stuff: too many investigative roles. Waaaaaay too many. A full cop, a 1-shot cop, a tracker, and House Lannister (Even if House Lannister's empowered power wasn't a full investigative power, the fact is, with that many investigative powers flying around, "paying your debts" would be more likely to investigate someone than anything else)? No way. Simply no way. At least one person is lying, possibly even two. Or scum has a redirector...

Frankly, I believe the most likely person to lie is silverspawn. He was super quick to offer to full-claim when Voltaire proposed the idea, and was first to claim when Voltaire kinda forced the massclaim. It could be eager town... or it could be scum that absolutely wants to claim an investigative role before Ashersky, because he knows that he is going to be suspected (he even says so himself). Don't know one way or another, but considering that Voltaire's and Ashersky's claim support each other, if only one person is lying, he is the most likely.

Going down the conspiracy theory lane (this is not going to make me popular)...

 -Ash could be a scum PR that targeted Robz, because Robz. Then Voltaire tracked him, because Ash.
 -Or Ash could be a full cop that targeted Robz, because Robz. Then Voltaire was basically cornered into claiming Tracker that copped  Ash because of simultaneous claims. I say cornered, because he couldn't possibly foresee the way the massclaim was going to end, and really there was nothing else he could have done as scum once he found himself there (Ash had crumbed that he had copped Robz, so it isn't terribly unlikely).
 -Or both could be scum giving each other massive towncred.

I have trouble with the conspiracy theories, because:
-Voltaire has played a very towny game.
-Ashersky would need to have flawlessly faked a PR game since N0, both in the thread and in the QT. Seriously, reread him.
-If both are scum, it superlinks them, and why aren't they dying during the night?

you are making fair points, and I Have to respect the conclusion that you're drawing. However, I like to point out that, if the setup has too many investigative roles in your opinion, it's not that effective to assume I'm lying. that's only a one-shot cop less, and still lots of investigate roles. A full cop is probably about 3 times as powerful as a one-shot cop. If ash is lying, that makes the setup reasonable.

[pacovf]

Other stuff: too many investigative roles. Waaaaaay too many. A full cop, a 1-shot cop, a tracker, and House Lannister (Even if House Lannister's empowered power wasn't a full investigative power, the fact is, with that many investigative powers flying around, "paying your debts" would be more likely to investigate someone than anything else)? No way. Simply no way. At least one person is lying, possibly even two. Or scum has a redirector...

Frankly, I believe the most likely person to lie is silverspawn. He was super quick to offer to full-claim when Voltaire proposed the idea, and was first to claim when Voltaire kinda forced the massclaim. It could be eager town... or it could be scum that absolutely wants to claim an investigative role before Ashersky, because he knows that he is going to be suspected (he even says so himself). Don't know one way or another, but considering that Voltaire's and Ashersky's claim support each other, if only one person is lying, he is the most likely.

Going down the conspiracy theory lane (this is not going to make me popular)...

 -Ash could be a scum PR that targeted Robz, because Robz. Then Voltaire tracked him, because Ash.
 -Or Ash could be a full cop that targeted Robz, because Robz. Then Voltaire was basically cornered into claiming Tracker that copped  Ash because of simultaneous claims. I say cornered, because he couldn't possibly foresee the way the massclaim was going to end, and really there was nothing else he could have done as scum once he found himself there (Ash had crumbed that he had copped Robz, so it isn't terribly unlikely).
 -Or both could be scum giving each other massive towncred.

I have trouble with the conspiracy theories, because:
-Voltaire has played a very towny game.
-Ashersky would need to have flawlessly faked a PR game since N0, both in the thread and in the QT. Seriously, reread him.
-If both are scum, it superlinks them, and why aren't they dying during the night?

you are making fair points, and I Have to respect the conclusion that you're drawing. However, I like to point out that, if the setup has too many investigative roles in your opinion, it's not that effective to assume I'm lying. that's only a one-shot cop less, and still lots of investigate roles. A full cop is probably about 3 times as powerful as a one-shot cop. If ash is lying, that makes the setup reasonable.

Certainly, but you will also agree that, if we have to mislynch someone, I would rather mislynch the 1-shot cop. A cop, a tracker, and House Lannister are not impossible if mafia has suitable PRs (JoaT, Godfather, Redirector, etc?) anyway.

Plus, Ash wasn't proposing alternative lynches to PPS up until the last second of D1... you, on the other hand, were.

[silverspawn]

The PPS case seemed weak to me. I tried pretty hard to stop it from happening.

[pacovf]

By voting for XP after Robz and WW told you not to?

[silverspawn]

By voting for XP after Robz and WW told you not to?

Why exactly should I do what Robz is telling me?

[pacovf]

Oh come on.

Hey guys, look. WW and I talked about this in our QT, and we don't want XP lynched. WW can corroborate when he is around, but I'm worried about XP getting lynched at some random time when neither him nor me are.

You have no reason to listen to me obviously, but you should listen to WW, who remains a virtual IC. XP is off the table; find a different lynch.

I'll vote: Pacovf

of course you do

can we really not lynch XP? and why?

'Cause I said so!

I'm not sure why any of you think Robz would be making stuff up here; that would be silly.

I don't know why you even try painting it as "what Robz is telling me".

[silverspawn]

that's what it is. well, it wasn't just Robz, if that's what you mean. It was Robz and WW.

But you have it right here:

'Cause I said so!

They just came and said, "we're not doing XP". I didn't like that.

[Voltaire]

how does what ash is saying now make him any less scummy?

Why do you think ash is scummy? His claim, his play, both?

I don't. I'm still null on him. But I don't see how these comments make him towny, and you suspected him before.

I don't like being the only lynch candidate.

Ash's comments didn't make him more town/less scum directly. I'd been leaning towards treating ash as town for today and basically he failed to set off any "red flags" with his answers, so I'm going forward with that.

And as been pointed out, you are so not the only lynch candidate.

[Voltaire]

-How did the discussion to make Voltaire Hand of the King go? This one really confuses me.

I can answer this one.

Basically we all got into the QT and I said something pretty similar to this

"uh... so I know that people decided to not use our power. But personally I would be ok with Volt using the power if everyone else agrees"

Volt a bit later kinda states the same thing saying hes ok with someone using that hand of the king power.

azadin Votes himself while he thinks about it not realizing votes are final. Then both me and SS vote Volt and he gets the power.

This is accurate. It wasn't a terribly lengthy debate.

I was super-psyched to get to be a Strongman Tracker.

[Voltaire]

-How did the discussion to make Voltaire Hand of the King go? This one really confuses me.

I can answer this one.

Basically we all got into the QT and I said something pretty similar to this

"uh... so I know that people decided to not use our power. But personally I would be ok with Volt using the power if everyone else agrees"

Volt a bit later kinda states the same thing saying hes ok with someone using that hand of the king power.

azadin Votes himself while he thinks about it not realizing votes are final. Then both me and SS vote Volt and he gets the power.

You must realize that this doesn't look too good for you, given the fact that both you and silverspawn are currently the top scumreads, right?

Why?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Just checking in. pacovf seems pretty townie to me.

Interesting silver framing himself as the only lynch of today. It kind of makes me want to lynch him more. Although I'm still sticking with Hydrad for now. I really feel like I've caught scum there.

I am concerned a little bit about Teproc though. Robz posted earlier regarding whether Teproc has done anything to achieve similar IC-ish status and I don't remember anyone responding to it.

[Witherweaver]

Volt posted his claim in the QT, before Ash claimed.  So he either guessed really well, or it was true, or they're both scum.

I think the last one is really unlikely.

[Witherweaver]

The PPS case seemed weak to me. I tried pretty hard to stop it from happening.

This is weird.  Wasn't it this very game where you made a point about being a little unsure of yourself and not so confident in Mafia yet?  But you were so sure of PPS to try to sway the lynch?

[Voltaire]

Teproc was the one who was on the alternative wagon to PPS when they were both at L-2. I asked both him and WW to convince me which wagon I should join, and ended up going for PPS.

Though there are a lot of moments that make me go town!Teproc, that's the one I give the most weight.

[Robz888]

So, who we lynching?

[Voltaire]

So, who we lynching?

It would be great if you could help provide some input. You are an IC* for realz.

General consensus is the pool should be off-wagon (ash/Hydrad/EgorK/silver). I think everyone is giving ash a pass for his claim. That means Hydrad, EgorK, silver.

So, any input you have on those three would be great.

[Voltaire]

Teproc was the one who was on the alternative wagon to PPS when they were both at L-2. I asked both him and WW to convince me which wagon I should join, and ended up going for PPS.

Though there are a lot of moments that make me go town!Teproc, that's the one I give the most weight.

I'm sorry, I said that wrong. Teproc was ON PPS when there was an alternative wagon.