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[ashersky]

I think this is town Teproc.

As do I, which I've said since the very beginning.

So if I'm supposed to accept that Witherweaver is an Innocent Child, that makes both parties of the modslip strongly town, which seems pretty unlikely.

[silverspawn]

Do you want to make us houseless because you think it's the best thing to do for town, or for another reason?

[pingpongsam]

Ash and I have a lot in common with regards to our approach to the game. This level of anti town is not scum ash anymore than it would be scum PPS. Leveraging it against him will be  a scum tell for the rest of the game. Unpacked and catching up.

[ashersky]

I simply can't understand what Ash is doing here. It's super anti-town. He's also misunderstanding the setup once more.

Teproc, I suggest you heed your own advice and ignore Ash for the time being.

And the discussion about morality in aSoIaF is interesting and all, but we've got a thread for that, and here it's derailing the discussion.

And he starts to deflect again.

Why is it not relevant to the discussion?  Go and read past flavored games.  In LOTR1, for example, orcs and dragons were scum.  In the books, also evil.  In Dr. Who mafia, the bad guys were the evil dudes from the show.  It goes on and on.  In samurai and ninjas, same deal.  In Buffy, I had to use the amnesia trope to NOT have the big bads be the regular big bads.

So, as it has been stated by more than one person not named ashersky (hence, you should have read it) that the flavor is pretty dang spot on in this game, I have to imagine that faust has chosen the "bad guys" from the books to be the bad guys here.

People are right that there is a lot more gray areas in GoT, but this is a game of mafia, so he needs to do something with it.

It's absolutely possible (and awesome) to design a game with four neighborhoods, but one neighborhood is a front for the mafia.  They would still have their secret hideout (factional QT), but as we have seen, many a laundromat or restaurant has been a mafia front in the past.  So just reflavor it here.  Maybe House Stark is the front, I don't know the books well enough.  But it isn't outside the realm of possibility.

So, I do think it is relevant to figure out who is most likely to be the bad guys flavor-wise so we can use that information to inform our decisions during the day, during claims, during the night, etc.

[Witherweaver]

...

All this WW is an IC talk is scummy.  Here's what happened:

Player 1: my flavor name is Eevee!
Player 2: hey, hold up, MY flavor name is Eevee!  Vote: Player 1!
Mod: sorry guts mod error on the flavor names, which, by the way, as pointed out before the game, has no relation to alignment.
Everyone:  yay!  Player 2 is an accidental IC!

Tell me that makes any sense.

[Witherweaver]

Setup information

There are 13 players, some of which are mafia and rest town (Realm-aligned in this game). At the start of the game, each player is assigned to a House or House-free. Houses do not indicate alignment. Similarly, flavor names are independent of alignment.

[ashersky]

Do you want to make us houseless because you think it's the best thing to do for town, or for another reason?

Sorry, didn't get to this yet.

This is a fantastic and astute question, silverspawn.  Kudos.

This could absolutely be a thing that benefits a particular player (or players).  In this case, not me.  But you are right we should think about that.

If there are roles that relate to houses/house powers, it's possible there are powers that relate to being unhoused.

[ashersky]

Setup information

There are 13 players, some of which are mafia and rest town (Realm-aligned in this game). At the start of the game, each player is assigned to a House or House-free. Houses do not indicate alignment. Similarly, flavor names are independent of alignment.

Um, thanks?  That's exactly what I said.  Flavor names have no relation to alignment.

I am missing your point.

[Witherweaver]

Because this?

I simply can't understand what Ash is doing here. It's super anti-town. He's also misunderstanding the setup once more.

Teproc, I suggest you heed your own advice and ignore Ash for the time being.

And the discussion about morality in aSoIaF is interesting and all, but we've got a thread for that, and here it's derailing the discussion.

And he starts to deflect again.

Why is it not relevant to the discussion?  Go and read past flavored games.  In LOTR1, for example, orcs and dragons were scum.  In the books, also evil.  In Dr. Who mafia, the bad guys were the evil dudes from the show.  It goes on and on.  In samurai and ninjas, same deal.  In Buffy, I had to use the amnesia trope to NOT have the big bads be the regular big bads.

So, as it has been stated by more than one person not named ashersky (hence, you should have read it) that the flavor is pretty dang spot on in this game, I have to imagine that faust has chosen the "bad guys" from the books to be the bad guys here.

People are right that there is a lot more gray areas in GoT, but this is a game of mafia, so he needs to do something with it.

It's absolutely possible (and awesome) to design a game with four neighborhoods, but one neighborhood is a front for the mafia.  They would still have their secret hideout (factional QT), but as we have seen, many a laundromat or restaurant has been a mafia front in the past.  So just reflavor it here.  Maybe House Stark is the front, I don't know the books well enough.  But it isn't outside the realm of possibility.

So, I do think it is relevant to figure out who is most likely to be the bad guys flavor-wise so we can use that information to inform our decisions during the day, during claims, during the night, etc.

[pacovf]

Do you want to make us houseless because you think it's the best thing to do for town, or for another reason?

Sorry, didn't get to this yet.

This is a fantastic and astute question, silverspawn.  Kudos.

This could absolutely be a thing that benefits a particular player (or players).  In this case, not me.  But you are right we should think about that.

If there are roles that relate to houses/house powers, it's possible there are powers that relate to being unhoused.

What? You suggested to unhouse everybody just because? Without thinking the implications of it?

What the heck are you doing?

[pacovf]

Ash and I have a lot in common with regards to our approach to the game. This level of anti town is not scum ash anymore than it would be scum PPS. Leveraging it against him will be  a scum tell for the rest of the game. Unpacked and catching up.

Excuse my boldness, but aside from preemptively trying to intimidate us into not lynching Ash, do you have anything to back up your defense of him?

[Witherweaver]

Ash and I have a lot in common with regards to our approach to the game. This level of anti town is not scum ash anymore than it would be scum PPS. Leveraging it against him will be  a scum tell for the rest of the game. Unpacked and catching up.

Excuse my boldness, but aside from preemptively trying to intimidate us into not lynching Ash, do you have anything to back up your defense of him?

That he's correct is sufficient enough.

The interesting thing is he's established a predefined reason to find someone scummy.  It would have actually been better if he hadn't mentioned this.

[pacovf]

He's not just being antitown, he is downright not making any sense.

[Witherweaver]

He's not just being antitown, he is downright not making any sense.

Welcome to Mafia with Ashersky!

[pingpongsam]

He's not just being antitown, he is downright not making any sense.

You've clearly never played a game with me.

[Witherweaver]

Feel free to reread Dice Mafia if you want some examples

[silverspawn]

He's not just being antitown, he is downright not making any sense.

Welcome to Mafia with Ashersky!

... do you think he is right, or do you think he isn't making any sense?

[pacovf]

So what, we just let him go on his merry way of spreading confusion and acting against town's best interests?

How do you guys ever catch him using this sort of logic?

[Witherweaver]

So what, we just let him go on his merry way of spreading confusion and acting against town's best interests?

How do you guys ever catch him using this sort of logic?

"let him"?  Are you suggestions sanctions?  Or that he be lynched?

[pingpongsam]

So what, we just let him go on his merry way of spreading confusion and acting against town's best interests?

How do you guys ever catch him using this sort of logic?

Logic is how scum wins games. Logic works with available information. Guess who has more every time?

Inference and detection are much more subtle and difficult, yet more effective because scum has no means of directly confounding it. In fact, town is better equipped to create a basis for leveraging which is exactly what ash is up to here. You call it spreading confusion but I see you choosing to be confused, you say he is acting against town yet I see him forging a weapon with what he has, thus equipping town.

[Witherweaver]

He's not just being antitown, he is downright not making any sense.

Welcome to Mafia with Ashersky!

... do you think he is right, or do you think he isn't making any sense?

Usually when Ash does things, he does them for a reason.  Whether that reason is from Town or Scum is hard to tell.

[pingpongsam]

Dice mafia was won on inference and detection not on logic.

[ashersky]

Because this?

I simply can't understand what Ash is doing here. It's super anti-town. He's also misunderstanding the setup once more.

Teproc, I suggest you heed your own advice and ignore Ash for the time being.

And the discussion about morality in aSoIaF is interesting and all, but we've got a thread for that, and here it's derailing the discussion.

And he starts to deflect again.

Why is it not relevant to the discussion?  Go and read past flavored games.  In LOTR1, for example, orcs and dragons were scum.  In the books, also evil.  In Dr. Who mafia, the bad guys were the evil dudes from the show.  It goes on and on.  In samurai and ninjas, same deal.  In Buffy, I had to use the amnesia trope to NOT have the big bads be the regular big bads.

So, as it has been stated by more than one person not named ashersky (hence, you should have read it) that the flavor is pretty dang spot on in this game, I have to imagine that faust has chosen the "bad guys" from the books to be the bad guys here.

People are right that there is a lot more gray areas in GoT, but this is a game of mafia, so he needs to do something with it.

It's absolutely possible (and awesome) to design a game with four neighborhoods, but one neighborhood is a front for the mafia.  They would still have their secret hideout (factional QT), but as we have seen, many a laundromat or restaurant has been a mafia front in the past.  So just reflavor it here.  Maybe House Stark is the front, I don't know the books well enough.  But it isn't outside the realm of possibility.

So, I do think it is relevant to figure out who is most likely to be the bad guys flavor-wise so we can use that information to inform our decisions during the day, during claims, during the night, etc.

While we all know roles/alignments are not related to flavor names, I think it is far-fetched to assume the setup ignores flavor completely.

For example, if this was Star Wars mafia, and someone was Darth Vader, we would assume he's a bad guy.  But maybe he's not, because .  But we'd assume it.  So maybe the mod gives him a safe flavor claim, like Yoda, and then he doesn't have that issue.

I'm saying we could extrapolate that into an infinite number of possibilities for game creation.  Regardless, I'd expect the mafia to share flavor, whether it be they are all wild snow creatures or Lannisters.  So it is important to keep all possibilities in our minds.

[ashersky]

Feel free to reread Dice Mafia if you want some examples

I actually think liopoil's game is the one to read.  The one where I put forward the most pro-town plan ever, which included lynching me, while scum.

[ashersky]

Because this?

I simply can't understand what Ash is doing here. It's super anti-town. He's also misunderstanding the setup once more.

Teproc, I suggest you heed your own advice and ignore Ash for the time being.

And the discussion about morality in aSoIaF is interesting and all, but we've got a thread for that, and here it's derailing the discussion.

And he starts to deflect again.

Why is it not relevant to the discussion?  Go and read past flavored games.  In LOTR1, for example, orcs and dragons were scum.  In the books, also evil.  In Dr. Who mafia, the bad guys were the evil dudes from the show.  It goes on and on.  In samurai and ninjas, same deal.  In Buffy, I had to use the amnesia trope to NOT have the big bads be the regular big bads.

So, as it has been stated by more than one person not named ashersky (hence, you should have read it) that the flavor is pretty dang spot on in this game, I have to imagine that faust has chosen the "bad guys" from the books to be the bad guys here.

People are right that there is a lot more gray areas in GoT, but this is a game of mafia, so he needs to do something with it.

It's absolutely possible (and awesome) to design a game with four neighborhoods, but one neighborhood is a front for the mafia.  They would still have their secret hideout (factional QT), but as we have seen, many a laundromat or restaurant has been a mafia front in the past.  So just reflavor it here.  Maybe House Stark is the front, I don't know the books well enough.  But it isn't outside the realm of possibility.

So, I do think it is relevant to figure out who is most likely to be the bad guys flavor-wise so we can use that information to inform our decisions during the day, during claims, during the night, etc.

While we all know roles/alignments are not related to flavor names, I think it is far-fetched to assume the setup ignores flavor completely.

For example, if this was Star Wars mafia, and someone was Darth Vader, we would assume he's a bad guy.  But maybe he's not, because [spoiler.].  But we'd assume it.  So maybe the mod gives him a safe flavor claim, like Yoda, and then he doesn't have that issue.

I'm saying we could extrapolate that into an infinite number of possibilities for game creation.  Regardless, I'd expect the mafia to share flavor, whether it be they are all wild snow creatures or Lannisters.  So it is important to keep all possibilities in our minds.

Yeah, so I can't edit posts, but that wasn't actually supposed to be spoiled.  I just wanted to write [spoiler.] there.