Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: WanderingWinder on June 25, 2013, 02:34:49 pm
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Sometimes, I will get a game where my opponent just doen't know some combination of cards, and I basically just get a free win. Well, basically, I want to make a listing of baseline 'strategies to know', not so much because they are always best, but because a good player should be aware of them, so that on a board where they appear, the player knows that these are baselines they need to have some plan of overcoming. My idea is to have a listing of these things, not super specific 5 card combos or anything, but things which will come up reasonably often. Also not the normal use of the card that is the first thing everyone thinks of, like torturer chains. Anyway, this isn't a complete list of course, and please feel free to suggest more. Probably this would be good for the Wiki eventually???
I'd also like to eventually add links to appropriate articles for each of these.
In no particular order:
Big Money X
Fool's Gold/BM
IGG Rush
HP-X
Vineyards/Gainer (e.g. Ironworks)
Gardens/Silk Road Rush
Duke (and the slog concept in general)
Masquerade Pins
The Golden Deck
NV/Bridge (and other NV megaturns)
General Engine
Minion Engine
Multi-Goons
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King's Court/Scheme
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Fortress/Bishop golden deck.
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Ambassador + Engine
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Here are some things I know I have seen people regularly miss or not understand:
Hermit / Market Square
Ambassador opening (just link to existing articles I guess)
Double Tactician
Draw to X Engines
Horn of Plenty megaturn
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Governor/Council Room + Discard Attack
Peddler + TfB
Draw to X engines (Festival/Watchtower being a good baseline)
Vault/GM
Tactician/Black Market
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Also Rebuild.
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discard or lower hand size plus draw-to-x cards
(FV, watchtower, festival, oasis, Library, etc)
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IGG Rush
6pool kekeke gg
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Discarding/Trashing + Menagerie
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I love this idea. One thing that would be great to include for each strategy would be a baseline tempo: average time to 4 Provinces (or half VP, or pile out, depending on the strategy). Many midlevel players recognize the strategies but don't know how they perform relative to each other.
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I love this idea. One thing that would be great to include for each strategy would be a baseline tempo: average time to 4 Provinces (or half VP, or pile out, depending on the strategy). Many midlevel players recognize the strategies but don't know how they perform relative to each other.
Right. Well, I don't think that this is always applicable exactly (any of the alt VP, some of the attack-based ones), and it's a little bit of a sliding scale, because you generally play differently based on what your opponent does (do I need to green hard now or set up for a longer game?), but something like this is of general importance. You also want to know of general weaknesses (e.g. golden deck gets crushed by most non-deck attacks). Anyway, that is the idea of the list, but the way I would think to do it is by having that kind of information in the general articles for each thing, and linking to them.
Maybe depending on the format ends up, it would be nice to have a brief synopsis on each one:
General Idea
Speed
Longevity/Power
Vulnerabilities
With a sentence or two on each.
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In no particular order:
Big Money X
Fool's Gold/BM
IGG Rush
Please. I find this card deeply puzzling and my intuition w.r.t. its strength/speed/longevity seems way off.
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I think there are some "classic" strategies/combos which are almost always the right thing to go for when they are on the board, like Workshop/Gardens for base games, Trader/Feodum, &c.
I am still surprised how many of my opponents know it's good to get Hermits and Market Squares, but then start gaining Golds on turn 5 and are really surprised when they see the megaturn.
It would be good to have an "if this combo is available, you pretty much have to do it" list. There are some pretty good combos, like Apprentice/Hoard, that I'm not sure are on the same level, so I'd also be interested to see comparisons.
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Peddler+pawn or hamlet
Develop/Vineyards
Native Village/HoP
Trader/feodom
Goons/watchtower
Possession/governor
Tactician/black market
Herbalist/p stone
University/apprentice
University/watchtower
Scrying pool/+$ action card/+action cards
Ed
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I've encountered people--high level people!--who don't even know that, well, you can't just ignore Cursers unless Ambassador, Masquerade, Lighthouse, Jack, or Rebuild are hanging around. And even then, sometimes you can't ignore them.
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...(e.g. golden deck gets crushed by most non-deck attacks)...
I one time set it up where my deck was Platinum-Platinum-Bishop-Moat-Card to be trashed. I got HORRIBLE luck though and lost...
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I've never been too good with the golden deck. I feel like I can't get my deck thin enough quick enough with any trasher other than chapel. What else enables it?
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Lookout is a decent enabler. Steward and Forager are slower but can still outrace certain other decks.
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Actually, Doctor might be pretty good...
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I got to a bishop-fortress golden deck ridiculously fast with doctor. Doctor was also useful in that game for pulling up fortresses once I ran out of other things to trash.
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I've encountered people--high level people!--who don't even know that, well, you can't just ignore Cursers unless Ambassador, Masquerade, Lighthouse, Jack, or Rebuild are hanging around. And even then, sometimes you can't ignore them.
Oh yes you can? Lots of cases with engines and trashing, at least one of which needs to be strong? I mean, it's not common, but...
Do we need to do this again?
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Not really a winning strategy as such, but I feel that in the vast majority of cases when both Chapel and Market Square is on the board, it pays to trash down everything until all you have is chapel, market square, market square, market square, copper, then trash the copper and only then gain three golds and you're set to go from there - people tend to gain the golds far too early getting a much less efficient deck.
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I am still surprised how many of my opponents know it's good to get Hermits and Market Squares, but then start gaining Golds on turn 5 and are really surprised when they see the megaturn.
Indeed. Just earlier today I played such a game. Unfortunately for me, my opponent bought out just enough of the hermits and market squares to handicap my megaturn quite a bit, but I still did enough to win.
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I believe the correct opening is Hermit/Hermit, and you should gain (and buy) only Hermits until you have 7 or the pile is out. Even if you only get three Market Squares, another Hermit+Madman lets you trigger them an extra time.
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I believe the correct opening is Hermit/Hermit, and you should gain (and buy) only Hermits until you have 7 or the pile is out. Even if you only get three Market Squares, another Hermit+Madman lets you trigger them an extra time.
Or 9, if that's possible.
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I believe the correct opening is Hermit/Hermit, and you should gain (and buy) only Hermits until you have 7 or the pile is out. Even if you only get three Market Squares, another Hermit+Madman lets you trigger them an extra time.
Agree on it working with 7 hermits (turned into 5 madmen and three hermits), but having only three market squares will cost you crucial +buys, I think.
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Having only three buys on your megaturn is not a problem at all, if your opponent didn't get enough Hermits for any sort of megaturn.
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I don't know about you guys, but the Hermit/Market Square megaturn combo is not something I'd be likely to figure out on my own unless someone used it on me, even though the 2 cards clearly go well together.
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Hermit/Market Square is also an example of when you can easily ignore Cursers without any of the cards Robz mentioned. Well, Mountebank's Copper is still frustrating.
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WW just taught me that YW is a horrible open when scheme is the bane :-[
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Banes, in rough order from worst to best:
...
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WW just taught me that YW is a horrible open when scheme is the bane :-[
I was thinking about posting that to this topic a couple days ago.
Also: YW-Tunnel is an excellent combo.