Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Lotoreo on March 06, 2022, 10:22:34 am
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- They can be stacked with throne room, and your opponent may easily take more than 5 turns in a row.
- They are prone to missclicks, so your opponent will have to focus (and play slow) during them.
- They often barely serve that much purpose, unless some other cards like courier have a synergy, or stacking attacks like torturer, or anything that gives tokens.
And I am just really annoyed right now because I played someone who used them excessively. And while he did play better, outplayed me and won in the end, it took easily 5 minutes between each my turns, and there was just no fun in sitting and watching him fiddle with the 3 cards he has each turn.
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I won't deny that it makes it take longer to get back to your turn, but I don't see how you can argue Voyage turns don't serve much purpose. Between:
* attacks and cards that give VP tokens or Coffers (like you mentioned)
* gainers like Sunken Treasure, that come in the same pile
* duration cards setting up next turn
* trashers that make your turn worse anyways
* generally getting to cycle 5 cards through your deck
it's not too rare to have something worth doing on Voyage turns.
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I won't deny that it makes it take longer to get back to your turn, but I don't see how you can argue Voyage turns don't serve much purpose. Between:
* attacks and cards that give VP tokens or Coffers (like you mentioned)
* gainers like Sunken Treasure, that come in the same pile
* duration cards setting up next turn
* trashers that make your turn worse anyways
* generally getting to cycle 5 cards through your deck
it's not too rare to have something worth doing on Voyage turns.
You forgot play 3 Golds and buy a Province.
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Voyage is very situational, it can be worse than Workshop if you play 3 cantrips and then...nothing, it can be amazing if you play Coven-King's Court-Mountebank or something like that.
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I think people are playing tons of pointless Voyage turns because they don't know what they're doing yet. When everyone gets more experience with the card, I think it will less often be the case that you have to wait for a long time as your opponent achieves very little during their numerous Voyage turns.
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Yes, most decks like/love cantrips, such as Market/Peddler/Mill etc. but Voyage decks hate them.
Voyage is like an anti-engine card in that you'd rather have a hand that can get Militia'd and still buy a Province such as Gold-Gold-Silver-Estate-Estate than a hand that wants to string actions together.
So when the dust settles, I think it will be used in money-based decks or attack heavy decks where you're desperately trying to win the Curse split or something like that.
Note that non-cumulative attacks like Militia/Goons/Margrave etc. are no use in Voyage turns since the opponent has (likely) already discarded in your previous turn.
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I won't deny that it makes it take longer to get back to your turn, but I don't see how you can argue Voyage turns don't serve much purpose. Between:
* attacks and cards that give VP tokens or Coffers (like you mentioned)
* gainers like Sunken Treasure, that come in the same pile
* duration cards setting up next turn
* trashers that make your turn worse anyways
* generally getting to cycle 5 cards through your deck
it's not too rare to have something worth doing on Voyage turns.
You forgot play 3 Golds and buy a Province.
This is why I think this is such a good card...
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Yes, most decks like/love cantrips, such as Market/Peddler/Mill etc. but Voyage decks hate them.
Voyage is like an anti-engine card in that you'd rather have a hand that can get Militia'd and still buy a Province such as Gold-Gold-Silver-Estate-Estate than a hand that wants to string actions together.
So when the dust settles, I think it will be used in money-based decks or attack heavy decks where you're desperately trying to win the Curse split or something like that.
Note that non-cumulative attacks like Militia/Goons/Margrave etc. are no use in Voyage turns since the opponent has (likely) already discarded in your previous turn.
I concur. I think if it was 3 actions and then you get to play the buy phase it would be a good card. But as is it is a stone that will absolutely make any engine based deck worse by adding it, save edge cases like curse racing without trashing, and even then I find it hard that I couldn't somehow get my deck to cycle more to get to the cursers I have and make my engine better than sacrifice handcuffing it in the hopes that I get an additional curse or two advantage from the move, as after that then I have to overcome having the card.
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If every card were good in every deck, Dominion would be a bad game.
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Yes, most decks like/love cantrips, such as Market/Peddler/Mill etc. but Voyage decks hate them.
Voyage is like an anti-engine card in that you'd rather have a hand that can get Militia'd and still buy a Province such as Gold-Gold-Silver-Estate-Estate than a hand that wants to string actions together.
So when the dust settles, I think it will be used in money-based decks or attack heavy decks where you're desperately trying to win the Curse split or something like that.
Note that non-cumulative attacks like Militia/Goons/Margrave etc. are no use in Voyage turns since the opponent has (likely) already discarded in your previous turn.
I concur. I think if it was 3 actions and then you get to play the buy phase it would be a good card. But as is it is a stone that will absolutely make any engine based deck worse by adding it, save edge cases like curse racing without trashing, and even then I find it hard that I couldn't somehow get my deck to cycle more to get to the cursers I have and make my engine better than sacrifice handcuffing it in the hopes that I get an additional curse or two advantage from the move, as after that then I have to overcome having the card.
It can be helpful in engine decks, but not in the way you'd usually think about them.
Engine decks not only care about gaining cards as quickly as possible, but also about trashing them.
Drawing Chapel-Curse-Copper-Copper-Estate or something like that would be great.
But Voyage is not the top card in the pile, Old Map is, so the pile has to be rotated once or 4 copies of Old Map gained, which means the first time you could gain a Voyage let alone play one is not until a little later in the game.
And a little later in the game you're not trashing as much as gaining. You 're usually only trashing much (especially with a terminal multiple card trasher like Chapel, Steward, etc.) in the first few turns.
So if you desperately want to use Voyage in an engine deck you need to have the right support for it. Gainers such as Artisan, Altar etc. could be useful.
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There is a gainer in the Odyssey cycle that can gain any action card ignoring cost (golem, possession, city quarters, etc. are fair game). Voyage is designed to interact with and set up sunken treasure so why it is being considered with any other gainer but not sunken is beyond me. It is good with other gainers to of course but in a hand where you play few cards sunken treasure is more useful. This card costs you 1 card but let’s you play 3 so obviously it has its uses and people have mentioned many. It’s not like it ends your turn or forces you to not play cards on every turns the downside is just one dead card on your main turn to play 3 which can likely include a gainer.
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I won't deny that it makes it take longer to get back to your turn, but I don't see how you can argue Voyage turns don't serve much purpose. Between:
* attacks and cards that give VP tokens or Coffers (like you mentioned)
* gainers like Sunken Treasure, that come in the same pile
* duration cards setting up next turn
* trashers that make your turn worse anyways
* generally getting to cycle 5 cards through your deck
it's not too rare to have something worth doing on Voyage turns.
You forgot play 3 Golds and buy a Province.
Partly inspired by @BraydonM’s Odyssey post, I have a few more to add:
* Getting an extra shot to rotate split piles before your opponent, (similarly Journey token shenanigans, e.g. Giant)
* Some Events, Landmarks, and Night cards don’t mind, and even thrive with an otherwise minimalist turn.
* We know gainers are good with Voyage. Some, like Sunken Treasure, have special synergy. Cobbler gains to hand that perfect 3rd card for the turn. Conjurer sails with you on your (throned) voyages. Smuggler gets another shot at that Goons the previous player just bought. Artificer probably doesn’t care about discarding your whole hand while voyaging. If you’re heavy on Favors, Crafters’ Guild can do its thing without affecting the voyage. The usual downsides of Way of the Rat (skipping the Action, discarding a Treasure) don’t hurt as much.
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Allies also contains Sycophant, which can get $3 from discarding 3 cards that Voyage won't let you play anyway. Discarding 3 cards to Secret Cave is also a good use of a Voyage turn, though if you draw your Magic Lamp on a Voyage turn that is definitely sad.
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I have to say that now that most of my frustration probably came from having voyage in almost every game. Now that the full expansion is released, I find the card more intriguing and way less annoying than before, and that's despite the fact that I am searching for games with additional allies cards.
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Ik voyages are really annoying but then again most beginners play just lots and lots of voyages until they figure out what to do.
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Here's what I don't understand:
the card says: "If the previous turn wasn't yours..."
- if you just played a second turn because of Voyage, then the previous turn WAS yours, and you shouldn't be allowed to play another turn due to a second Voyage. We were just playing online and the game allowed someone to play a 3rd turn in a row (he had two Voyages played during his main turn). How come?
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The "if the previous turn wasn't yours" refers to when you play the Voyage. You can play as many Voyages as you want if the previous turn wasn't yours, and that sets up that many extra turns. If you play a Voyage on a Voyage turn, it doesn't set up an extra turn.
Also, welcome to the forum!
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The "if the previous turn wasn't yours" refers to when you play the Voyage. You can play as many Voyages as you want if the previous turn wasn't yours, and that sets up that many extra turns. If you play a Voyage on a Voyage turn, it doesn't set up an extra turn.
Also, welcome to the forum!
To elaborate on this, the purpose of this is to stop infinitely looping voyages. If it did not have this line of text you could play 2 voyages A and B and take turn A then discarding it. You would then be able to play that voyage again on turn B and then voyage B on turn A leading to locking out the opponent and the game.
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The "if the previous turn wasn't yours" refers to when you play the Voyage. You can play as many Voyages as you want if the previous turn wasn't yours, and that sets up that many extra turns. If you play a Voyage on a Voyage turn, it doesn't set up an extra turn.
Also, welcome to the forum!
To elaborate on this, the purpose of this is to stop infinitely looping voyages. If it did not have this line of text you could play 2 voyages A and B and take turn A then discarding it. You would then be able to play that voyage again on turn B and then voyage B on turn A leading to locking out the opponent and the game.
Yeah. Now you're limited to some few hundred number of extra turns in a row through various combinations of King's Court, Throne Room, Band of Misfits, Overlord, Royal Carriage... or of course just an unbounded number of extra turns through the various going infinite combos that have already been found and exploited to empty the supply in turn 1.
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You know voyage works really good with action cards that let you gain cards. And then you can still play a couple treasures to buy a card. Or even if it’s just treasure cards. Or how about using a voyage turn to trash cards. And then you can thin your deck faster. There’s a lot of potential with voyage, but you do have to be prepared which 3 cards to use. Throne room isn’t the only potential strategy with voyage. And honestly you have a higher chance of having a good trasher than a throne room variant. And I have to say getting rid of all your treasures and filling your deck with either animal fair or poor house and village variants can make a voyage turn powerful. Play a wandering minstrel get 2 actions play your poor house no treasures in hand +4$ play another poor house no treasures in hand +4$ then buy a province. The voyage could potentially let you buy 2 provinces in 2 turns in a row, if you have your deck built a certain way. And some may complain that voyage is slowing the game down, but it still pails in comparison to when a player is able to chain literally their entire deck in turn after turn after turn. Voyage has a lot potential depending what cards your playing with.
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The "if the previous turn wasn't yours" refers to when you play the Voyage. You can play as many Voyages as you want if the previous turn wasn't yours, and that sets up that many extra turns. If you play a Voyage on a Voyage turn, it doesn't set up an extra turn.
Also, welcome to the forum!
To elaborate on this, the purpose of this is to stop infinitely looping voyages. If it did not have this line of text you could play 2 voyages A and B and take turn A then discarding it. You would then be able to play that voyage again on turn B and then voyage B on turn A leading to locking out the opponent and the game.
Yeah. Now you're limited to some few hundred number of extra turns in a row through various combinations of King's Court, Throne Room, Band of Misfits, Overlord, Royal Carriage... or of course just an unbounded number of extra turns through the various going infinite combos that have already been found and exploited to empty the supply in turn 1.
Emptying the supply in turn 1 results in zero extra Voyage turns, not an unbounded number. ;) ;)
Still, the number of consecutive extra turns can indeed be huge in specially constructed kingdoms (with Procession+Lich you might literally get billions of Voyage plays in one turn).
But in actual games it will probably be less of a problem than KC'ed Possessions, since the Voyage turns are much shorter than typical turns. (Though that's a low bar to cross...)
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The "if the previous turn wasn't yours" refers to when you play the Voyage. You can play as many Voyages as you want if the previous turn wasn't yours, and that sets up that many extra turns. If you play a Voyage on a Voyage turn, it doesn't set up an extra turn.
Also, welcome to the forum!
To elaborate on this, the purpose of this is to stop infinitely looping voyages. If it did not have this line of text you could play 2 voyages A and B and take turn A then discarding it. You would then be able to play that voyage again on turn B and then voyage B on turn A leading to locking out the opponent and the game.
Yeah. Now you're limited to some few hundred number of extra turns in a row through various combinations of King's Court, Throne Room, Band of Misfits, Overlord, Royal Carriage... or of course just an unbounded number of extra turns through the various going infinite combos that have already been found and exploited to empty the supply in turn 1.
Emptying the supply in turn 1 results in zero extra Voyage turns, not an unbounded number. ;) ;)
Still, the number of consecutive extra turns can indeed be huge in specially constructed kingdoms (with Procession+Lich you might literally get billions of Voyage plays in one turn).
But in actual games it will probably be less of a problem than KC'ed Possessions, since the Voyage turns are much shorter than typical turns. (Though that's a low bar to cross...)
I didn’t mean you would actually empty the supply; I meant that you would use some of the same tricks needed to do so; which sometimes involve playing the same card an unbounded number of times.