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[WalrusMcFishSr]

I am with my family but honestly, some times I need a break from them.

You can say that twice!

OK, well it looks like the most major thing that's happened since I last posted was sudgy's half-claim? To be honest I don't like it. Maybe I just don't get it? I'm finding it hard to understand why he would do this as town or scum. But I'm leaning scum.

First of all, couldn't he just lie about his results? "Oh I targeted Bill, and look I didn't die! So I guess Bill's in the clear XD" Meanwhile sudgy and Bill are scumpartners. Am I missing something, or is that a really dangerous possibility?

Second, with claims left and right already this game, maybe sudgy thought he could just slip another one in there and nobody would think too much of it? The timing was really silly, and of course he made sure to mention conspicuously that his claim had *nothing* to do with the votes on him, which is a fine bit of WIFOM. In an RMM environment, we can expect that practically everyone has a PR. So it's easy to claim one, and it's hard to learn too much based on that. Every lynch, mis- or otherwise, is liable to be a PR, and you sort of just have deal with that. Pretty much everyone is going to claim something when they get down to L-1 (or earlier).

Third, in order to use sudgy's supposed ability in a pro-town manner, we'd have to tie up other PRs to confirm his claims. Those PRs could be doing other more useful things, and then we'd have to believe those claims, and so forth. Unless the rest of sudgy's ability is really awesome then maybe there's more efficient things to do.

So I think this claim is pretty weak (HAHAHAHHAHA), and I just talked myself into a vote: sudgy. The only thing holding me back a bit is the fact that this is nowhere near the path of least resistance for scum to take, especially D1. It would be quite gambit-y, which I believe sudgy is capable of, but still not as easy as lurking. If sudgy is town, it could also possibly be an easy mislynch for scum to push through, given its visibility. But despite these reservations, and considering my earlier scumread, I'm happy with my vote for now.

nkirbit's OMGUSy vote against me was a little weird, but overall he has handled this bit of pressure on him quite coolly. I also had forgotten he recently had surgery, which gives some leave for his lurkiness. So minus a few scumpoints here.

The other biggest wagon is on Archetype, and I could get behind that too. I mentioned in my previous post that he was one of my scumreads, and I also found his recent post with the "surprise V/LA" to be awfully convenient, just as somebody had called him out about that. So I could be OK with an Arch lynch.

For what it's worth, I had just assumed that there was a time-traveling doctor in this game. Because, well, time-traveling doctor. Ya know?

I will of course be fairly busy over the next few days. But I should have time for the occasional post, especially late at night.

[pingpongsam]

4 Days, No Galz. can we get a Prod: Galzria?

Would anyone consider a policy lynch on Galzria? Yeah, we all love him and he's a great player but he's not, you know, playing the game... at all.

[pingpongsam]

Also, I went back and checked and maybe I missed it but I didn't see the part about what are the end of Day no-lynch or lynch conditions?

We may not pull enough people together on Friday to get a lynch consensus if we have to have an 8 man vote to make it happen. Additionally, with everyone handing out D1 passes like door prizes for claims is no-lynch what Town wants?

[Voltaire]

Galzria has been prodded.

- if the deadline is reached without a player reaching the lynch number, a no-lynch will occur

[chairs]

4 Days, No Galz. can we get a Prod: Galzria?

Would anyone consider a policy lynch on Galzria? Yeah, we all love him and he's a great player but he's not, you know, playing the game... at all.

I've already considered it as a possibility, and failing a lynch that feels more likely to hit scum it's probably where I'll end up.

In fact, vote: galzria.

[jotheonah]

FoS: chairs and PPS. You don't push for a policy lynch when there are multiple lynches of substance on the table. You're either lazy town or scum if you do.

[pingpongsam]

So, asking the question is pushing?

[jotheonah]

less so than actually voting, I suppose. A little defensive to a FoS though, aren't we?

[faust]

I will be able to post every now and then during Christmas. I likely won't be around for the deadline.

I agree that we need more from Galzria. But lynching him might be dangerous. I'd rather lynch someone who actually acts scummy. I get LAL and everything, but I strongly believe Galz will contribute more once the holidays are over.

That said, I scheduled a reread for tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.

[faust]

I am with my family but honestly, some times I need a break from them.

You can say that twice!

OK, well it looks like the most major thing that's happened since I last posted was sudgy's half-claim? To be honest I don't like it. Maybe I just don't get it? I'm finding it hard to understand why he would do this as town or scum. But I'm leaning scum.

First of all, couldn't he just lie about his results? "Oh I targeted Bill, and look I didn't die! So I guess Bill's in the clear XD" Meanwhile sudgy and Bill are scumpartners. Am I missing something, or is that a really dangerous possibility?

Well, yes he can. I guess noone here suggests we should 100% trust sudgy, only that we shouldn't lynch him today (at least that's my opinion.

Second, with claims left and right already this game, maybe sudgy thought he could just slip another one in there and nobody would think too much of it? The timing was really silly, and of course he made sure to mention conspicuously that his claim had *nothing* to do with the votes on him, which is a fine bit of WIFOM. In an RMM environment, we can expect that practically everyone has a PR. So it's easy to claim one, and it's hard to learn too much based on that. Every lynch, mis- or otherwise, is liable to be a PR, and you sort of just have deal with that. Pretty much everyone is going to claim something when they get down to L-1 (or earlier).

I think if sudgy was scum fake-claiming, he would just have a full-prepared claim going out, not just a part-claim (weak).

Third, in order to use sudgy's supposed ability in a pro-town manner, we'd have to tie up other PRs to confirm his claims. Those PRs could be doing other more useful things, and then we'd have to believe those claims, and so forth. Unless the rest of sudgy's ability is really awesome then maybe there's more efficient things to do.

Well, to use sudgy's ability, the best is to just wait for him to turn up dead I think. When he does, we know whether he's telling the truth.

So I think this claim is pretty weak (HAHAHAHHAHA), and I just talked myself into a vote: sudgy. The only thing holding me back a bit is the fact that this is nowhere near the path of least resistance for scum to take, especially D1. It would be quite gambit-y, which I believe sudgy is capable of, but still not as easy as lurking. If sudgy is town, it could also possibly be an easy mislynch for scum to push through, given its visibility. But despite these reservations, and considering my earlier scumread, I'm happy with my vote for now.

I find it slightly strange that you're stating all these objections to lynch sudgy. Is this so noone can posibly critize your vote and you can you say: "But look, I considered this!"?

nkirbit's OMGUSy vote against me was a little weird, but overall he has handled this bit of pressure on him quite coolly. I also had forgotten he recently had surgery, which gives some leave for his lurkiness. So minus a few scumpoints here.

The other biggest wagon is on Archetype, and I could get behind that too. I mentioned in my previous post that he was one of my scumreads, and I also found his recent post with the "surprise V/LA" to be awfully convenient, just as somebody had called him out about that. So I could be OK with an Arch lynch.

I agree with PPS that lynching someone because of VLA is bad form (when I voted Archetype, I didn't realize the VLA, sorry).

For what it's worth, I had just assumed that there was a time-traveling doctor in this game. Because, well, time-traveling doctor. Ya know?

You are aware that EFHW's flavor name is "The Doctor", right? So The Doctor is not a doctor, and specifically not a time-travelling one.

I will of course be fairly busy over the next few days. But I should have time for the occasional post, especially late at night.

I think after this I'm fine with vote: Walrus until I have time for a reread.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

How the hell do you know EFHW isn't a time-traveling doctor IC? This is RMM you know. Plus, haven't there been like 20 doctors by now?l Maybe some more are around. I don't actually watch Dr. Who (gasp!). It just seemed likely to me.

So, as I understand it, you're voting for me mostly because of my explanation of my reservations for voting for sudgy? Grrr. I hate playing the game of "what parts of my thought process are socially acceptable to voice in a Mafia game". I recognize that that looks a little hedgy, and I recognized it when I posted it. But the alternative is for me to contribute less to the discussion and post an incomplete fluffball. Is that what you'd prefer? I coulda just lurked and said LOL CHRISTMAS

If we're not allowed to find people scummy for claims (especially weird D1 half-claims in RMM), and we're not allowed to find people scummy for unannounced V/LA, then scum will prey on our naïveté, and you know there are some players who would fully capitalize on that.

[pingpongsam]

less so than actually voting, I suppose. A little defensive to a FoS though, aren't we?

So asking a question is now defensive?

We can do this all day, it's trite and silly, though.

[jotheonah]

less so than actually voting, I suppose. A little defensive to a FoS though, aren't we?

So asking a question is now defensive?

We can do this all day, it's trite and silly, though.

I hear you.

Walrus came out of that exchange looking quite towny, I think. Faust less-so? but it could be town v town.

[Archetype]

unannounced V/LA

It was not unannouced and sadly very real, despite its convenience. I find abusing the usage of a V/LA goes against the game's moral code and is something I'd never do if I were scum.

[Voltaire]

Vote Count 1.7

Archetype (2): Jimmmmm, xeiron
xeiron (2): Archetype, sudgy
nkirbit (1): jotheonah
sudgy (4): pingpongsam, ashersky, nkirbit, Walrus
Galzria (1): chairs
Walrus (1): faust

Not voting (3): 2.7..., EFHW, Galzria

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

D1 ends on Friday, December 27 at 530 PM forum time (two days added due to the original deadline falling on Christmas)

[chairs]

FoS: chairs and PPS. You don't push for a policy lynch when there are multiple lynches of substance on the table. You're either lazy town or scum if you do.

Are there substantive lynches on the table?

[pingpongsam]

Looking at the vote count I am still comfortable with my vote on sudgy. To me the claim is irrelevant because at this juncture in the game I feel it is largely unprovable. This is RMM with all possibilities of roleblocking, bus driving and redirection. How the claim came about is, however, relevant and is arguable equally as a Town or scum maneuver in the face of vote pressure which was relatively low then and remains so now. I didn't vote on the claim because the claim didn't exist when I voted. I voted on facts that looked scummy to me and those facts haven't changed and my attention towards them have been summarily ignored by sudgy. In fact, sudgy's play has switched from tossing sheepish votes willy nilly to leveraging the claim using the false presumption that N1 results will unequivocally reveal his alignment.

[sudgy]

In fact, sudgy's play has switched from tossing sheepish votes willy nilly to leveraging the claim using the false presumption that N1 results will unequivocally reveal his alignment.

Could you show me where I said this?  I am certain that my N1 won't do anything for revealing my alignment, short of me dying.  Someone else's, maybe, but not mine.

Also, I'll probably try to place a vote on the 26th or 27th, I'm still busy working on gifts and then will be busy with Christmas.

[pingpongsam]

In fact, sudgy's play has switched from tossing sheepish votes willy nilly to leveraging the claim using the false presumption that N1 results will unequivocally reveal his alignment.

Could you show me where I said this?  I am certain that my N1 won't do anything for revealing my alignment, short of me dying.  Someone else's, maybe, but not mine.

Also, I'll probably try to place a vote on the 26th or 27th, I'm still busy working on gifts and then will be busy with Christmas.

Granted you're not specifying N1 but then why the rush to claim?

And then I typed this other stuff out in response to the you dying N1 thing and realized no way scum is playing a gambit the kills him N1 because no one retroactively doctors the guy that flipped scum.

I'll have to reassess my position. Unvote

[sudgy]

In fact, sudgy's play has switched from tossing sheepish votes willy nilly to leveraging the claim using the false presumption that N1 results will unequivocally reveal his alignment.

Could you show me where I said this?  I am certain that my N1 won't do anything for revealing my alignment, short of me dying.  Someone else's, maybe, but not mine.

Also, I'll probably try to place a vote on the 26th or 27th, I'm still busy working on gifts and then will be busy with Christmas.

Granted you're not specifying N1 but then why the rush to claim?

Because I think I have a more likely chance of copping correctly if I claim.

[2.71828.....]

So I think this claim is pretty weak (HAHAHAHHAHA), and I just talked myself into a vote: sudgy. The only thing holding me back a bit is the fact that this is nowhere near the path of least resistance for scum to take, especially D1. It would be quite gambit-y, which I believe sudgy is capable of, but still not as easy as lurking. If sudgy is town, it could also possibly be an easy mislynch for scum to push through, given its visibility. But despite these reservations, and considering my earlier scumread, I'm happy with my vote for now.

I find it slightly strange that you're stating all these objections to lynch sudgy. Is this so noone can posibly critize your vote and you can you say: "But look, I considered this!"?

I am in total disagreement with Faust on this subject.  Before you vote someone, you should seriously consider all the objections and address them.  If you find that they are not enough to overcome your feelings that said person is scum, you vote for them.  Otherwise you save your vote.  I fully support Walrus covering his bases before voting a person.  He weighed his options, then voted.  I just hope that you have the same considerations before voting.

[EFHW]

Third, in order to use sudgy's supposed ability in a pro-town manner, we'd have to tie up other PRs to confirm his claims. Those PRs could be doing other more useful things, and then we'd have to believe those claims, and so forth. Unless the rest of sudgy's ability is really awesome then maybe there's more efficient things to do.

This is what people should absolutely not do, unless they decide it is the best use of their PR. 

I believe that sudgy claimed b/c his role is only useful if we know his targets.  He chose to claim rather than breadcrumb, which is fine, I think.  Whatever happens gives us more to get reactions and interactions from, and that is good, too.

[EFHW]

I'm VLA tomorrow.  I'll try to check in around this time.

[nkirbit]

unvote for now. I see what efhw is saying about the similarities to sudgy from mc

[nkirbit]

Sudgy may very well be lying.. But there's no reason to not hedge our bets. If we're going to lynch him, if he's scum that's terrific whenever, but if he's town we can at least get some ics from him