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[Cuzz]

I think TWM's case on me actually makes me lean towards a townread on him. It seems like genuine scumhunting and I'd find it reasonable if I didn't know my own alignment. It reminds me a little of faust's case on me in M100, (where we were both town and he ended up vigging me).

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think TWM's case on me actually makes me lean towards a townread on him. It seems like genuine scumhunting and I'd find it reasonable if I didn't know my own alignment. It reminds me a little of faust's case on me in M100, (where we were both town and he ended up vigging me).

If you are town, and you certainly could be see a similar situation in M103 where I defended scum Faust day from a lynch as town and was heavily suspected or M98 where everyone thought I was mcmc's partner and I got lynched for it, what I want from you is your own scum hunting. I know my case on you is pretty good, it might not be perfect,but it is good. I am not going to give it up unless I see something better. See if you can find something better. And you might not and that would suck if you are town. But we are Ina position, thanks to the people on wagon Day1, where it probably wouldn't suck horrendously.

[QuickSync]

I think TWM's case on me actually makes me lean towards a townread on him. It seems like genuine scumhunting and I'd find it reasonable if I didn't know my own alignment. It reminds me a little of faust's case on me in M100, (where we were both town and he ended up vigging me).

If you are town, and you certainly could be see a similar situation in M103 where I defended scum Faust day from a lynch as town and was heavily suspected or M98 where everyone thought I was mcmc's partner and I got lynched for it, what I want from you is your own scum hunting. I know my case on you is pretty good, it might not be perfect,but it is good. I am not going to give it up unless I see something better. See if you can find something better. And you might not and that would suck if you are town. But we are Ina position, thanks to the people on wagon Day1, where it probably wouldn't suck horrendously.

Everything I have seen from Cuzz has seemed like Pro-Town behavior. It makes your case on him look a bit tin-foily.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think TWM's case on me actually makes me lean towards a townread on him. It seems like genuine scumhunting and I'd find it reasonable if I didn't know my own alignment. It reminds me a little of faust's case on me in M100, (where we were both town and he ended up vigging me).

If you are town, and you certainly could be see a similar situation in M103 where I defended scum Faust day from a lynch as town and was heavily suspected or M98 where everyone thought I was mcmc's partner and I got lynched for it, what I want from you is your own scum hunting. I know my case on you is pretty good, it might not be perfect,but it is good. I am not going to give it up unless I see something better. See if you can find something better. And you might not and that would suck if you are town. But we are Ina position, thanks to the people on wagon Day1, where it probably wouldn't suck horrendously.

Everything I have seen from Cuzz has seemed like Pro-Town behavior. It makes your case on him look a bit tin-foily.

Examples?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And calling it tin-hat is preposterous. It might be wrong. But it is based on his actual posts and his actual interactions with IDPTG.

In my book there are a couple of tiers of townie behavior. The first one is voting for a lynching IDPTG. Cuzz doesn't fall into this (I fully realize I don't fall into this grouping as well, so feel free to apply the same metric to me).

All other behavior that may or may not be Pro-Town doesn't get him anywhere close. Instead there is 20-20 Anti-Town behavior. Tapping the breaks on a player that was lynched as scum, questioning and suspecting the number one player leading that charge and when actually put in the spot light about IDPTG, Cuzz came up with the most stereotypical and made up answer "lurking" that has zero grounds for a "strong suspicion."

Actually point out these Pro-Town posts of your and show how they are Pro-Town. I'll look at them. But if I had to guess, yours are going to be more tin-hat and pseduoscience based than what I have above.

[QuickSync]

And calling it tin-hat is preposterous. It might be wrong. But it is based on his actual posts and his actual interactions with IDPTG.

In my book there are a couple of tiers of townie behavior. The first one is voting for a lynching IDPTG. Cuzz doesn't fall into this (I fully realize I don't fall into this grouping as well, so feel free to apply the same metric to me).

All other behavior that may or may not be Pro-Town doesn't get him anywhere close. Instead there is 20-20 Anti-Town behavior. Tapping the breaks on a player that was lynched as scum, questioning and suspecting the number one player leading that charge and when actually put in the spot light about IDPTG, Cuzz came up with the most stereotypical and made up answer "lurking" that has zero grounds for a "strong suspicion."

Actually point out these Pro-Town posts of your and show how they are Pro-Town. I'll look at them. But if I had to guess, yours are going to be more tin-hat and pseduoscience based than what I have above.

My problem with your whole argument is that it basically boils down to Cuzz having an incorrect read. In my mind this is beyond a shallow perspective of the game. You cannot objectively say that you Scum read someone for their involvement on on a Wagon - either if its a Town wagon (and you are saying they are Scum for being on a Town lynch) nor a Scum wagon because its basically a fact as substantiated as any fact is that people are going to be wrong in their reads on people. I mean, the simple counter to your argument is that cuzz was in deliberation on their Scum read of TPD which literally happens constantly in this meta game we play called Mafia. You are basically producing a Scum read on someone who is doing something that every Town person does every single game because it just so happened to happen at a time when it was observable. That is why your case is essentially asinine.

[QuickSync]

And calling it tin-hat is preposterous. It might be wrong. But it is based on his actual posts and his actual interactions with IDPTG.

In my book there are a couple of tiers of townie behavior. The first one is voting for a lynching IDPTG. Cuzz doesn't fall into this (I fully realize I don't fall into this grouping as well, so feel free to apply the same metric to me).

All other behavior that may or may not be Pro-Town doesn't get him anywhere close. Instead there is 20-20 Anti-Town behavior. Tapping the breaks on a player that was lynched as scum, questioning and suspecting the number one player leading that charge and when actually put in the spot light about IDPTG, Cuzz came up with the most stereotypical and made up answer "lurking" that has zero grounds for a "strong suspicion."

Actually point out these Pro-Town posts of your and show how they are Pro-Town. I'll look at them. But if I had to guess, yours are going to be more tin-hat and pseduoscience based than what I have above.

My problem with your whole argument is that it basically boils down to Cuzz having an incorrect read. In my mind this is beyond a shallow perspective of the game. You cannot objectively say that you Scum read someone for their involvement on on a Wagon - either if its a Town wagon (and you are saying they are Scum for being on a Town lynch) nor a Scum wagon because its basically a fact as substantiated as any fact is that people are going to be wrong in their reads on people. I mean, the simple counter to your argument is that cuzz was in deliberation on their Scum read of IDP which literally happens constantly in this meta game we play called Mafia. You are basically producing a Scum read on someone who is doing something that every Town person does every single game because it just so happened to happen at a time when it was observable. That is why your case is essentially asinine.

IDP

EBWOP

[The_Wine_Merchant]

That is not my argument at all. Try reading. It wasn't an incorrect read. It was that he had a read that he put forth but didn't act on. This game has two things. Words and actions. His talk matched up, but his actions didn't. That is scummy.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

And you still haven't show those "pro-town" posts of his. Another example of words without actions.

[Cuzz]

On D1 I had identical impressions of luckat and IDP which was that they had done essentially nothing. There are always a few of these people D1 and I tend to think there is almost always scum among them. Calamitas in M100 was an example of this. I tend to like lynching these people D1 because even if they are town you lose a townie who hasn't been super productive anyway. Others disagree on this philosophy but we don't need to rehash this now. But this was the basis for my post about thinking at least one of them was scum.

When Robz pushed the IDP lynch, though, this made me less inclined to vote for IDP because I thought Robz was scum and I thought he was trying to buddy me by pushing a wagon on someone I had expressed suspicion of. Remember also that Robz explicitly refused to explain his vote for IDP. This made me very wary, and made me think about the possibility of a luckat/Robz scumteam. There was no traction for a luckat lynch so I stayed on Robz

Obviously the reasoning above was all wrong because it was highly influenced by a strong scumread on Robz who was town. But such is life.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

On D1 I had identical impressions of luckat and IDP which was that they had done essentially nothing. There are always a few of these people D1 and I tend to think there is almost always scum among them. Calamitas in M100 was an example of this. I tend to like lynching these people D1 because even if they are town you lose a townie who hasn't been super productive anyway. Others disagree on this philosophy but we don't need to rehash this now. But this was the basis for my post about thinking at least one of them was scum.

When Robz pushed the IDP lynch, though, this made me less inclined to vote for IDP because I thought Robz was scum and I thought he was trying to buddy me by pushing a wagon on someone I had expressed suspicion of. Remember also that Robz explicitly refused to explain his vote for IDP. This made me very wary, and made me think about the possibility of a luckat/Robz scumteam. There was no traction for a luckat lynch so I stayed on Robz

Obviously the reasoning above was all wrong because it was highly influenced by a strong scumread on Robz who was town. But such is life.

I think all of that is reasonable, except you are saying it now, after the fact when you are being suspected, instead of Day 1. And again. You said you had "strong suspicion." In my opinion, just lurking doesn't not quality as a reason for "strong suspicion" especially when you narrowed it down that way.

[Cuzz]

A random pair of people D1 has a 42% chance of containing at least one scum. I'll argue that plus lurking plus my own judgment can bump it up to a "strong suspicion."

[Cuzz]

Also I'm pretty sure that I did express most of that D1, though not all in one post and not as concisely.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Alright. I am satisfied enough that I am not going to quibble over small points. Others can decide for themselves.

But again, from you at this point, I am sticking with my vote on you until something better comes up. No one that has argued against my read on you has even tried to provide an alternative.

[Cuzz]

I think this is a town on town debate and I think scum is letting us get distracted by it.

I think my top scumread right now is e but I need to do my homework on that and I'm still kinda vla, but it's really just a gut feeling that e has not posted a ton of real content and that he has been avoiding interaction.

Also keeping an eye on ash. The two major thoughts I have are somewhat at odds:
1. Awaclus came up with the IC plan which was protown
2. ash's post about not knowing who was lynched/NKd D1 was really weird and seems like the kind of ruse scum!ash could try to pull to score cheap towncred.

Ppe: providing alternatives

[Cuzz]

Alright. I am satisfied enough that I am not going to quibble over small points. Others can decide for themselves.

Man, these small points you don't wanna quibble over are like the entirety of your case on me.

[QuickSync]

Alright. I am satisfied enough that I am not going to quibble over small points. Others can decide for themselves.

But again, from you at this point, I am sticking with my vote on you until something better comes up. No one that has argued against my read on you has even tried to provide an alternative.

:thinking:

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Alright. I am satisfied enough that I am not going to quibble over small points. Others can decide for themselves.

Man, these small points you don't wanna quibble over are like the entirety of your case on me.

I disagree. My point is that you stated you scum read IDPTG but never actually voted for him. That is the meat. It is factual and can't be disputed or quibbled over.

The rest is the context. I have tried to explain, but get misunderstood or my points taken out of context. Such is language. Perhaps I am misunderstanindg things that you intended to say or wanted to say, but didn't Day 1. But that is all up in the air. I can't know it and you can't prove it. So I am not going to quibble over it. It isn't fruitful. If others want to ask you about it they can feel free to do so.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm still kinda vla

And that is fine. I am hoping by the end of day the other ideas will be presented. I don't expect them immediately. And part of my ceasing the quibbling is to give you an opportunity to focus on that instead of going back and forth with me. That was something that hurt me in the past as town. I had to spend all game defending myself instead of scum hunting and then got criticized for not scum hunting and was lynched for it.

[QuickSync]

Good call.  If we lynch mafia today, I think the Vig could consider shooting, maybe TWMing it.

Horrible idea. TWM is Town for IDP shading him.

BTW:

Vote: Cuzz

Boom!

[Cuzz]

Cool.

[Cuzz]

L-2 I think (modquest: slightly more frequent vote counts please?)

New plan for if I end up as default lynch: people voting for me provide a 2 sentence explanation as to why (TWM has done so already), so that town has something to analyze when I flip town. From your perspective this should be a protown thing to do information-wise even if I flip scum (spoiler alert: I won't). Tomorrow, lynch anyone who refuses to do so (except Dylan).

So far QS, E, and, annoyingly, Dylan have given nothing to go with their vote.

If you're thinking anyone's lack of justification might have something to do with an investigative result on me, do remember to ditch that theory when I flip town.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.1

schadd (1): luckat
Cuzz (4): The_Wine_Merchant, 2.71828....., Dylan32, QuickSync {L-2}

Not voting (6): Witherweaver, Awaclus, mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone, Cuzz, schadd

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends August 2 at 11:59 pm forum time.

[gkrieg13]

L-2 I think (modquest: slightly more frequent vote counts please?)

Sorry, the frequency should increase dramatically for the next week and then drop back to the same frequency from me being V/LA again.

[QuickSync]

L-2 I think (modquest: slightly more frequent vote counts please?)

New plan for if I end up as default lynch: people voting for me provide a 2 sentence explanation as to why (TWM has done so already), so that town has something to analyze when I flip town. From your perspective this should be a protown thing to do information-wise even if I flip scum (spoiler alert: I won't). Tomorrow, lynch anyone who refuses to do so (except Dylan).

So far QS, E, and, annoyingly, Dylan have given nothing to go with their vote.

If you're thinking anyone's lack of justification might have something to do with an investigative result on me, do remember to ditch that theory when I flip town.

I find it unreasonable for you to have some of the stances/pushes that you have demonstrated as someone with a Town mindset. I came to this conclusion after rereading a few people. TWM's case has substance, it just isn't articulated very well.