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[The_Wine_Merchant]

Oh yeah and maybe TWM should clarify vaguely whether he got a result on Cuzz?

I targeted Cuzz

[The_Wine_Merchant]

https://youtu.be/4-xBhiU1C80?t=2m22s

i have called you son, i've made amends
between, father and son

or if you haven't one, rest in my arms
sleep in my bed
there's a design
to what i did and said, rest in my arms [...]

Galzria has died in the night! he was vito, a town even-night watcher

I am 100% positive he originally flipped as 2-shot. schadd has since editted this.

yeah

[The_Wine_Merchant]

[Angerwolf Central]

Everything you are saying in your angrisoliloquy is true! You did a good job proving it even. I don't see how the McMc vote follows though?

Sometimes you just need to emphasize a point with a vote. 

[iguanaiguana]

Don't emphasize your points with a vote on someone you still think is more likely to be town than someone else.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Don't emphasize your points with a vote on someone you still think is more likely to be town than someone else.

I don't think he is more likely town than anyone else. He is in a group of about 7 players I would potentially vote for. Nothing in his play has shown me is town. So it is e perfectly fine vote. And I get to decide how to use my vote. Not you. It is mine to use after all.

[Swowl]

On mobile so not quoting but Datswan just voted Cuzz because he listed possible outcomes wherein all 3 ended with Cuzz being town.

Apologies, I thought it would be assumed there was the obvious option of "he is skum". My bullet pointing of the three Town Flip Potentials were meant to emphasize the potential downsides if he flipped Town vs potential the potential upside from an information perspective if he flipped Town. Obviously, I still think it is a likelihood he is skum, or I would not of made the case

[Swowl]

On mobile so not quoting but Datswan just voted Cuzz because he listed possible outcomes wherein all 3 ended with Cuzz being town.

Also two of them involved lynching TWM afterwards... why not just vote TWM?

Also thought this would be assumed, sorry... because in the scenario where Cuzz is Skum it makes TWM look very Towny.

[Swowl]

Oh yeah and maybe TWM should clarify vaguely whether he got a result on Cuzz?

Spoiler: he didn’t

Well then a bit of clarification could help you know whether to vote for him!

I am starting to halfway think that me, PPS, and TWM should just clarify the things we have alluded to.

Cons: tells scum better how to handle the town PRs by a lot.

Pros: clarifies a lot of confusion that may be leading to bad town decision making

Someone is probably lying scum so we can get that person locked into a story.

What do others think?

I think it is weird you didn't include yourself on this claim list. That being said... I think they have made it pretty clear that they are not going to claim at this point. If we put the pressure on them and they are town then they claim and your above scenario kicks in. If we put the pressure on them and they are skum, then not only does it help the skum team with the knowledge of PRs... but like they are a skum TEAM still. I am pretty sure they could just come up with some fake claim to be overlooked.

[iguanaiguana]

DatSwan, you really don't seem to read things very carefully often.

[Swowl]

DatSwan, you really don't seem to read things very carefully often.

ah mb. its bc it was in front of the list lol threw me off.

[Swowl]

DatSwan, you really don't seem to read things very carefully often.

ah mb. its bc it was in front of the list lol threw me off.

just disregard the first sentence
I stand by the rest of it.

[iguanaiguana]

I think if they are town they should reconsider that given they have both already claimed to be a PR maybe they should just give their results so it helps us move toward a correct lynch.

[Swowl]

I think if they are town they should reconsider that given they have both already claimed to be a PR maybe they should just give their results so it helps us move toward a correct lynch.

I totally agree with you on that one. Just was pointing out that they did not seem to want to adhere to that line of reasoning previously.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

If a significant portion of townish people think PPS and I should claim I am happy to do so. But think iguana should join us in that.

Also lynch is almost upon us. Just tomorrow and half day after that.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Sorry been super busy.

Same. WIll try to get to this tonight.

re-prod: teproc

[The_Wine_Merchant]

faust (2): LaLight, pingpongsam
The_Wine_Merchant (2): SpaceAnemone, Cuzz
pingpongsam (1): faust
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
Datsawn(1): TWM
Cuzz (1): Datswan

not voting (3): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Teproc

Robz, mcmc and teproc. Voting would be ideal!

vote: Datswan

[SpaceAnemone]

There's been a bit of talk/speculation about town PRs, but not a lot of discussion about scum roles or about modifiers.

@TWM, do you see anything in a "normal" mafiascum game setup that might interfere with the validity of the result you have on Cuzz? I've realised stuff like Framer, Redirector and Godfather are all "non-normal", so actually PR results are a lot more useful than I'd first assumed, unless I'm missing a bunch of reasons why a PR might not trust their results.

@swan, is all the reasoning you've done so far taking into account the full range of modifiers available? I think the answer may well be yes, but you haven't mentioned them. Having been a weak doctor in a game that finished recently, I'm quite aware that some modifiers completely change the feel of the role.

The other thing I'm thinking is that if we're discussing having our PRs claim, then it might tell us more about the power of the scumteam. However, if one of our claimed PRs isn't telling the truth, then that might give scum more of an opportunity to screw with us. Though if we can trust PR results 100%, then that's maybe not as dangerous as it could have been.

[iguanaiguana]

If a significant portion of townish people think PPS and I should claim I am happy to do so. But think iguana should join us in that.

Also lynch is almost upon us. Just tomorrow and half day after that.

Sure. If PPS agrees we can all go.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

OMG! I have never stated that I have a result on Cuzz. I said that I targeted him with my PR during the night. What information, if any, I obtained I have give zero information about. Anything else was infered by others.

[Robz888]

Finally caught up. Will have lots of thoughts. Here's an important one: NO ONE CLAIM. Iguana, TWM, PPS are probably all town. I accept that. Please don't claim.

[Robz888]

If TWM has an incriminating result on Cuzz, he should say so, and we should lynch Cuzz. And I don't like what he's doing at all, keeping this info to himself. I don't like it, but I still think it's a townie move. It's something a townie thinks is clever, whereas a scum player would recognize it as too antagonistic and annoying and not do it.

[Robz888]

And to preemptively answer why I am claiming now.

One: I know my skillet and it isn't getting people off my wagon when it is rolling and I already have four votes

Second: derphammers and quick lynches are still a thing. I could be dead within 24 hours

Third: I am suspicious of iguana and PPS given that they are apparently PRs as well and it is getting very crowded with them plus Galz and any others that might be as well. I'll reveal what my real PR is when they do. Even willing to go before, but immediately, before them.

On point three: This is dumb and wrong. Always expect more PRs. Even those JK+ type setups, which are very balanced, allow for tons of PRs. More PRs is more fun for mods, consequently, they find ways to cram them in.

[Robz888]

I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever

Yes I agree with this. The big thing I got from my re-read is that I have a scum read on faust. I think faust has more reason than most to shoot Galz, because Galz dying makes faust not dying look less incriminating ("Why didn't they kill faust? Oh, they had to kill Galz.")

[Robz888]

Question: is it Datswan and Galz who're good friends IRL? Could that incentivise one of them to want to take the other out, if they're on opposite factions? And if so, would killing Galz be a good move for scum to frame Swan a bit, under the assumption that one of us will point that out eventually?

I do think scum!datswan is likely to want to kill town!galz

This is very true. DatSwan is the *most* likely to kill Galz. I had forgotten this but it's true. In fact, Galz dying is almost reason enough to lynch DS here.

[Robz888]

Hi, prod acknowledged. Sorry, I've been extremely busy. I actually started a re-read yesterday, but didn't get through it. I will have more soon, I promise.

Hey cool mister “I play every game” if your town seriously finish your reread. And actually rereads are silly since it is tough to comprehend everything. pick TWO players read all their posts and given us thoughts. Do it instead of rerolling 25 more Agricola games so you can get a starting hand you already know how to win with and playing that...sorry in advance I’m having a bad day.

Apology accepted!