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[Swowl]

I've fakeclaimed in the past. Gotten caught. Made scumslips, gotten caught.

So, since I've made a claim today I must also be fakeclaiming, scumslipping, scum today?

That is pretty much the premise for your case.

Better than your case on me!

Nah, his case on you is pretty good. Your defense is like, no way am I scummy for trying to lynch all those towns.

I hate to be the person to point it out. but I can't believe no one has yet given how much "some of us" have discussed skum slips.

I read the "all" part as being for dramatic effect.. if he'd said "both", it would have been more accurate, but isn't he just taking about the two flipped townies whose wagons faust had been pushing for most of D1?

Thing 1 is the most super lame reason to be suspicious of someone ever. I demand you recant or I won't take the rest of your case seriously and will not read it further.

It's okay, I wasn't expecting to persuade you to vote for yourself anyway, so it's only really important for other people to read my thoughts :-P

Cool.

Let's get this out of the way. I am a PR and targeted Cuzz last night as breadcrumbed. Make out of that what you will.

Cool, and you’ll now be confirming me as town for everyone, or what? Except you already voted for me today so maybe explain what the hell you’re talking about

I'll full claim when PPs and iguana do. But my vote on you is reasonable given my knowledge.

I cannot fathom what you possibly could think you’ve discovered although I can fathom why you might tease a fake result on someone with a somewhat substantial D1 wagon, and then withhold a claim until you’ve outed two PRs.

Vote: TWM

PRs are not forced to out themselves. And no one forced TWM to say anything. If he said this and then, let's say, put someone to L-1 or something that would be one thing, but all he is doing now is blank claiming a PR.

He could have motive to do it as VT. And yeah, he could have motive to do it as skum. but honestly with all the votes guys/girls, after the abysmal D1 lynch we don't wanna like... take a sec and think this one through before starting some crazy wagon for no real reason?

Why would he do this as skum. It MAKES NO SENSE. who in their right mind would think that they are going to succeed in getting 2 PR *Town* claims to claim out just cuz their like "oh and me to but you have to say first".

Iguana - you of all players so far in this game should have some insight to this. You decide to kick up a muck, but you're town right? Why does that make TWM Skum for doing the same thing the next day?

[Swowl]

I've fakeclaimed in the past. Gotten caught. Made scumslips, gotten caught.

So, since I've made a claim today I must also be fakeclaiming, scumslipping, scum today?

That is pretty much the premise for your case.

Better than your case on me!

Nah, his case on you is pretty good. Your defense is like, no way am I scummy for trying to lynch all those towns.

I hate to be the person to point it out. but I can't believe no one has yet given how much "some of us" have discussed skum slips.

I read the "all" part as being for dramatic effect.. if he'd said "both", it would have been more accurate, but isn't he just taking about the two flipped townies whose wagons faust had been pushing for most of D1?

point taken. If I replace with "both" it reads very much that way.

[LaLight]

I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever

It was nice talking to you. See you next game.

faust, I am sorry if I unintendedly offended you, I really didn't intent to. Something feels wrong about you pushing some people and not pushing others. TWM feels town just because when he's scum he's not that emotional, more cold-blooded. I was modding first two of his games and he was scum in both iirc and I was looking at how he played. When he finally was town, his play got more desperate and emotional, so here I think he's town. Why don't we want pps or better II claim?

[Swowl]

I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever

Does this mean you won't change from faust to anyone?
Or that you won't change over to TWM from faust, specifically?

[Swowl]

I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever

It was nice talking to you. See you next game.

faust, I am sorry if I unintendedly offended you, I really didn't intent to. Something feels wrong about you pushing some people and not pushing others. TWM feels town just because when he's scum he's not that emotional, more cold-blooded. I was modding first two of his games and he was scum in both iirc and I was looking at how he played. When he finally was town, his play got more desperate and emotional, so here I think he's town. Why don't we want pps or better II claim?

This guy get It

[Swowl]

I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever

It was nice talking to you. See you next game.

faust, I am sorry if I unintendedly offended you, I really didn't intent to. Something feels wrong about you pushing some people and not pushing others. TWM feels town just because when he's scum he's not that emotional, more cold-blooded. I was modding first two of his games and he was scum in both iirc and I was looking at how he played. When he finally was town, his play got more desperate and emotional, so here I think he's town. Why don't we want pps or better II claim?

This guy get It

or not claim. You all could like... vote too

Way more likely we find skum in II/PPS than we do in faust/TWM.

[LaLight]

I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever

Does this mean you won't change from faust to anyone?
Or that you won't change over to TWM from faust, specifically?

won't change to TWM from faust specifically

[faust]

He could have motive to do it as VT. And yeah, he could have motive to do it as skum. but honestly with all the votes guys/girls, after the abysmal D1 lynch we don't wanna like... take a sec and think this one through before starting some crazy wagon for no real reason.

There is a reason, so stop acting as though there isn't.

Why would he do this as skum. It MAKES NO SENSE. who in their right mind would think that they are going to succeed in getting 2 PR *Town* claims to claim out just cuz their like "oh and me to but you have to say first".

The main objective from scum!TWM's point of view is to stay alive, not to out town PRs. And this claim might help him do that; it seems to work on you. But he hasn't actually given us anything to work with. The claim doesn't help town at all.

Also you are for some reason assuming that PPS is town. Why?

Iguana - you of all players so far in this game should have some insight to this. You decide to kick up a muck, but you're town right? Why does that make TWM Skum for doing the same thing the next day?

TWM had a wagon on him, iguana didn't. Also TWM's claim is way different from what iguana did D1.

PPE: 4

[faust]

faust, I am sorry if I unintendedly offended you, I really didn't intent to.

You didn't intend to unintendedly offend me, huh? No worries, it's all good.

Something feels wrong about you pushing some people and not pushing others. TWM feels town just because when he's scum he's not that emotional, more cold-blooded. I was modding first two of his games and he was scum in both iirc and I was looking at how he played. When he finally was town, his play got more desperate and emotional, so here I think he's town. Why don't we want pps or better II claim?

I get the emotionality thing and in fact I brought it up myself just a bit earlier... but on the other hand his late D1 was genuinely scummy and I don't really see the town narrative for his not-claim here. There are definitely other places we should look like PPS and Cuzz and the people who didn't talk much today, but this TWM wagon has created good interactions so far and that's why it made sense to push it.

[Swowl]

He could have motive to do it as VT. And yeah, he could have motive to do it as skum. but honestly with all the votes guys/girls, after the abysmal D1 lynch we don't wanna like... take a sec and think this one through before starting some crazy wagon for no real reason.

There is a reason, so stop acting as though there isn't.

Why would he do this as skum. It MAKES NO SENSE. who in their right mind would think that they are going to succeed in getting 2 PR *Town* claims to claim out just cuz their like "oh and me to but you have to say first".

The main objective from scum!TWM's point of view is to stay alive, not to out town PRs. And this claim might help him do that; it seems to work on you. But he hasn't actually given us anything to work with. The claim doesn't help town at all.

Also you are for some reason assuming that PPS is town. Why?

Iguana - you of all players so far in this game should have some insight to this. You decide to kick up a muck, but you're town right? Why does that make TWM Skum for doing the same thing the next day?

TWM had a wagon on him, iguana didn't. Also TWM's claim is way different from what iguana did D1.

PPE: 4

Middle of the night for me and I actually have to do something in the morning tomorrow (dunno how that happened) but this is what I got:

1) No Reason - Should re-word. I have played with TWM. He is not a horrible player. If he is skum he has a team. Why would he *do something that makes him look more suspicious when - as you stated - there is a wagon on him already, as opposed to... idk.. like anything else?

2) I just want to be clear  on this one... by saying this: "And this claim might help him do that; it seems to work on you." - Town!Faust is... calling out another assumed town PR?

3) II couldn't have a wagon on him, it was the first thing that was said. and while that makes it different, so would of anything that happened over any amount of time. Also, when I say "Iguana - you of all players..." I am probably hoping for an answer from iguana. You know... since when other players say stuff it influences that persons reaction or whatever it is you said to me.

[faust]

He could have motive to do it as VT. And yeah, he could have motive to do it as skum. but honestly with all the votes guys/girls, after the abysmal D1 lynch we don't wanna like... take a sec and think this one through before starting some crazy wagon for no real reason.

There is a reason, so stop acting as though there isn't.

Why would he do this as skum. It MAKES NO SENSE. who in their right mind would think that they are going to succeed in getting 2 PR *Town* claims to claim out just cuz their like "oh and me to but you have to say first".

The main objective from scum!TWM's point of view is to stay alive, not to out town PRs. And this claim might help him do that; it seems to work on you. But he hasn't actually given us anything to work with. The claim doesn't help town at all.

Also you are for some reason assuming that PPS is town. Why?

Iguana - you of all players so far in this game should have some insight to this. You decide to kick up a muck, but you're town right? Why does that make TWM Skum for doing the same thing the next day?

TWM had a wagon on him, iguana didn't. Also TWM's claim is way different from what iguana did D1.

PPE: 4

Middle of the night for me and I actually have to do something in the morning tomorrow (dunno how that happened) but this is what I got:

1) No Reason - Should re-word. I have played with TWM. He is not a horrible player. If he is skum he has a team. Why would he *do something that makes him look more suspicious when - as you stated - there is a wagon on him already, as opposed to... idk.. like anything else?

2) I just want to be clear  on this one... by saying this: "And this claim might help him do that; it seems to work on you." - Town!Faust is... calling out another assumed town PR?

3) II couldn't have a wagon on him, it was the first thing that was said. and while that makes it different, so would of anything that happened over any amount of time. Also, when I say "Iguana - you of all players..." I am probably hoping for an answer from iguana. You know... since when other players say stuff it influences that persons reaction or whatever it is you said to me.

1) You cannot at the same time believe that what TWM did makes him more suspicious and that he wouldn't do it as scum. At least not if you're a somewhat logical being. From your posts I take that you actually think it does not make him suspicious. Is it far-fetched to think that TWM thought the same?

2) Err... no, I am not. I am saying that apparently you think TWM is townie for his claim, so if he wanted to make people believe he's town, it has worked on you.

3) You're right. Sorry.

[iguanaiguana]

I've fakeclaimed in the past. Gotten caught. Made scumslips, gotten caught.

So, since I've made a claim today I must also be fakeclaiming, scumslipping, scum today?

That is pretty much the premise for your case.

Better than your case on me!

Nah, his case on you is pretty good. Your defense is like, no way am I scummy for trying to lynch all those towns.

I hate to be the person to point it out. but I can't believe no one has yet given how much "some of us" have discussed skum slips.

I am talking about already flipped peeps ya deep 😎

[iguanaiguana]

@Dat What Muck doth I Kick Up?

[pingpongsam]

I am feeling LL’s sentiment. Faust going after TWM seems more like jumping at the opportunity to get out from under the microscope and start another wagon. TWM is making that really easy, though. The plea for others to claim ahead of him seems extremely suspect. I agree with Cuzz that he is being implicated with absolutely nothing to respond to. I am siding with II that I will not be forced to full claim in the hopes that TWM would claim. He opened this up, let him finish it. I am practically claimed anyhow, if anyone has any sense at all. The only piece missing is if I have modifiers or not. I see no reason to claim further, in fact I expected scum to try to press me for more.

[pingpongsam]

@Dat What Muck doth I Kick Up?

Long division muck

[faust]

I am feeling LL’s sentiment. Faust going after TWM seems more like jumping at the opportunity to get out from under the microscope and start another wagon.

What? I have voted TWM before I had any sort of wagon. Then I spent a good deal of time answering to posts of people who suspected me and tried to explain why I am town. Then someone asked me why I was voting TWM, so naturally I answered. At no point have I made an effort to push TWM in order to stop people asking questions about me, and honestly I'm sick of your misrepresentations.

Vote: PPS

[faust]

Plus look at the hedge on TWM. I mean seriously.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

You are putting words in my mouth. Go back and read what I said and compare to what you said.

Which part of what you said did you not actually say?

Screw this. Night.

I am willing to hear you out but it seems to me that what you said was that you have some kind of result on me which is compatible with your earlier vote on me, which presumably means you're claiming a scum result, which is impossible what with me being town and all.

Let me try and make this clearer. How about via list?

1. I am a PR
2. With my PR I targeted Cuzz last night
3. I am not going to claim what my PR is until later
4. The time that is later is when the others (PPS and iguana) also claim
5. I am not forcing PPS or iguana to claim

Anything else you have either added or imagined. So take away those preconceived or forced ideas and discard them until you have further information.

If you still want to vote me then. Fine. But right now, it appears to me, that you are voting for me because of things you added to my posts rather than what my posts actually say.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Also I've got nothing to claim today and I'm not going to let anyone bully me into doing so.

Not bullying you. Just saying I'll claim when you do. Before you even. But only right before.

But if you want to see the people bullying me to claim as bullying you, well then bully for you.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I am claimin now to prevent my lynch (and lynch of town PR), but am not claiming fully until the other two that have already partially claimed also do so. Likely at time of mass claim.

That's not how it works.

It is exactly how it works. Or you can lynch me.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

On the other hand, I'm not sure what TWM is hoping to be gaining from not claiming more... I mean there is a limited number of roles here for which it even makes sense to breadcrumb. Anyone who puts in some effort should be able to piece together quite well what kind of role TWM has.

And the breadcrumb, if it was one, was pretty bad.

I am not hoping to gain anything. I am hoping to leave mafia in the dark a bit however. We have three claimed PRs, they don't know what exactly those PRs are. It will prevent them from using further information at this point.

The information to give to town will become evident later, either via my death or when I claim. So there isn't any benefit to giving it out other than to sate curiosity.

And sorry if we can't all be the expert player like you. I tried this game, as all town games, to avoid gaining suspicion. But that didn't go over very well. So now I am trying to this to prevent me getting lynched. That is the secondary role of any townie, especially a PR, Don't Get Mislynched!

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I also have thoughts about everyone's reactions to my claim but am saving them for later.

[pingpongsam]

It would super cool if Robz, mcmc, and Teproc would weigh in.

[faust]

On the other hand, I'm not sure what TWM is hoping to be gaining from not claiming more... I mean there is a limited number of roles here for which it even makes sense to breadcrumb. Anyone who puts in some effort should be able to piece together quite well what kind of role TWM has.

And the breadcrumb, if it was one, was pretty bad.

I am not hoping to gain anything. I am hoping to leave mafia in the dark a bit however. We have three claimed PRs, they don't know what exactly those PRs are. It will prevent them from using further information at this point.

The information to give to town will become evident later, either via my death or when I claim. So there isn't any benefit to giving it out other than to sate curiosity.

And sorry if we can't all be the expert player like you. I tried this game, as all town games, to avoid gaining suspicion. But that didn't go over very well. So now I am trying to this to prevent me getting lynched. That is the secondary role of any townie, especially a PR, Don't Get Mislynched!

From my point of view, you have given scum enough information to figure out if you are a threat, but you have not given us enough information to figure out if you're telling the truth.

[iguanaiguana]

Fun fun fun