Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[EFHW]

Vote Count 2.EFHW

jotheonah (1): pingpongsam
Walrus (2): ashersky, xeiron
ashersky (1): jotheonah
yuma (1): faust
xeiron (3): 2.71828....., yuma, nkirbit

Not voting (3): EFHW, Jimmmmm, Walrus

[EFHW]

EFHW, do you have any other role parameters outside of being the IC? A simple yes or no will suffice and a no comment is understandable but it would pertain to ascertaining whether you are "the doctor" or if maybe I protect someone else or multiple doctor titles/roles.

My role is specifically called the Doctor.

[yuma]

Oh I wanted to ask ash a question he might not want to answer... ash if you are willing to say is your enabling power passive or active. That is can it be blocked in anyway beside from you dying? Basically could someone protect you w/o having your enabling power be blocked or is it all dependent on you being alive.

I am willing to say that as long as I live, regeneration is enabled.  Doc, JK, etc. won't stop it, but would keep me alive.  Does that answer your question?

Yes thanks

[yuma]

So at this point I would vote for jotheonah (probably less so than any of these others actually) Jimmmm or xeiron.

I am not saying the others are off the table, but to an extent they are... and I realize that none of these players were on the archetype wagon, but I don't really like the PPS lynch or the ash lynch and obviously don't like my lynch so there you go...

[jotheonah]

Ok.

One of these bulletproof claimants has to be scum.

I mean a bunch of bulletproof townies running around is OP. I feel strongly that ash enables a mix of scum and town.

Ash himself, though, is reading townier after his claim. So unvote.

Walrus is by far the scummiest claim on the table, as I have said over and over. He would be my pick for a lynch but I don't want to interfere with night action shenanigans.

[faust]

Ashersky - I think you might as well claim here.  Now that pps's power is out in the open, you are a more important target regardless of what you claim. 

There is another way for there to be multiple nk's, which is for scum to go back in time and take two shots in one night.  I think we have scum with some pretty powerful PR's, since I'm getting this protection.  I also think multiball or SK are very likely.

I think we may be getting to where we would want to mass claim.  What do other people think?

I enable regeneration.  That is game flavor speak for something normally called something else.

Anyone with this power will know what I am discussing.

I can clarify if needed, and can flavor claim if wanted.

ash - is this your full claim? Regeneration Enabler?

[faust]

Other thoughts:

Walrus' update to his claim seems somewhat townie, I just don't see scum, especially new scum (Walrus hasn't been scum before, right? Except maybe ongoing games) to do something like that.

ashersky: When you said you could account for night kills to fail, was the sole reason for this that you knew there were regenerating roles?

The accusations against xeiron I don't find convincing. I still would like a yuma lynch. Does everyone here think that all scum were on-wagon bussing their partner D1? Because if not, yuma is by POE the off-wagon scum (I guess it could be ashersky, but for that ash would need to be scum enabling town).

[xeiron]

Okay well I'm kind of caught up on Today's posts. I'm extremely confused, but I'll say what thoughts I do have.

nkirbit's thoughts on Walrus read Towny to me. Unlike others, he analysed actual in-thread evidence rather than trying to guess scum kills and other night actions. What we know on that is pretty simple - sudgy targeted Walrus and died. No one else died. Scum could have killed sudgy, or they could have killed on a different Night. This casts suspicion on Walrus, but in-thread interactions should also be considered.

Not sure what to make of joth vs yuma. I don't understand pps's claim, although I'm pretty sure "the Doctor" or "the doctor" means EFHW.

e read scummy to me, although I can't remember why. Will have to revisit that.

You are missing part of the evidence. What we know:
-Sudgy targeted Walrus and died.
-Scum targeted EFHW, who was protected by pingpongsam. (According to pingpongsam)
-No one else died.

[faust]

In fact, shit, it looks like my entire role is enabled! One of these days I'll learn how to read. I thought it seemed a little too good to be true.

Idk if ash enables the whole thing or just the regeneration part. But there you go.

"It looks like"? Have you asked for mod confirmation? Have you known about your enabled-ness at the start of the game?

[Jimmmmm]

-Scum targeted EFHW, who was protected by pingpongsam. (According to pingpongsam)

Hmm, if that's true and we believe there's only one scum faction, that's pretty damning.

[xeiron]

So everything is all together I will continue where I left off.

The reason that I voted xeiron:

I do not like the stances he has held (which I think are scummy) and the plans he has made for PRs (which I think are scummy).

Early D1 vote on Archetype.  First wagons never succeed, and usually end with more town cred to the person surviving them.  Xeiron was the first "real" vote on Archetype, building a (self-proclaimed) weak case against him. 

Good point. not much to say about that.

Comes up with the plan for sudgy to use. (which sudgy adopted)

Then comes up with all sorts of plans for how to occupy other PRs with sudgy.

Sudgy asked for advice on how to use his role, I came up with a plan That i think is the best use of his role.
Those others are not plans, they are exaples on how other powerroles could make us trust Sudgys result. I am not saying The roles should be used in this way.

Has an interesting post about how sudgy will probably die at night early, or if he doesn't we should lynch him.

If he has neither target scum or been nightkilled by then he is probably scum.

Basically this reads to me that he is telling Sudgy that his role must be used as a cop or we will lynch him.  (directing how PRs "should" be used)

Votes Ashersky, then votes Walrus when the wagon is really starting to get legs (L-3 vote), then switches back to Ashersky after Walrus gets to L-1.  He then switches back to Walrus after people start leaving Walrus for Archetype.  Then hammers Archetype when it becomes inevitable.  These are all back to back to back posts for him too.  He couldn't make up his mind whether he wanted to lynch town!ash or town!walrus then finally derp?hammers scum!arch.  If Ash or Walrus flip scum, then I think that clears xeiron, but right now his end of D1 voting is not extremely towny.  In fact, xeiron himself kind of calls it scummy. 

Yuma for trying to avoid a lynch at all.

why is this scummy?

It is scummy, because in a situation where we are close to deadline, and blitzvoting to reach a lynch, and one of the feasable lynch canditates is scum (Archetype), other scum members would try to avoid having their teammate lynched. Either by pushing another wagon, or by just trying to avoid any lynch as you did.

Xeiron did not even consider Archetype until the hammer

I voted Asherskyas my top scumread. Then Walrus, when we needed a lynch. Then Ashersky when EFHW wanted an alternative wagon. Then Walrus when it became clear that an Ashersky wagon was not going anywhere. Then Archetype because I think any lynch os better than no lynch.

I agree that my position last on the archetype wagon is scummy, just as I think Jotheonahs position is.

Xeiron has plans for Walrus to confirm Walrus/Joth as town or scum

As I pointed out. the reason for posting this plan, was that it would require both walrus and Jotheonah to live today. If the plan was not worth going for both Joth and Walrus, would go on my lynch list.

Has a reads post where he accuses Joth of being scum for doing exactly what he himself did.

Scummy D1 for trying hard to lynch someone else than Archetype. On wagon at the last minute, when there was no other real lynch alternatives.

Jumps back onto Walrus after some claims.

Because I do think pingpongsams result is pretty damning for Walrus.

So conclusion:  He hasn't done anything to stand out as scummy.  He hasn't done anything to stand out as towny.  Most of the claims we have had I don't want to lynch right now.  Ash could very well be scum enabling town, but as far as claims go, I like the ones he enables so we could always lynch Ash later, but not today.  Not a fan of Walrus, PPS, or Joth lynches.  Right now xeiron is my favorite lynch.  He has done just enough to avoid a lot of scrutiny, but I think that under scrutiny he is scum

PPE:3

[ashersky]

Ashersky - I think you might as well claim here.  Now that pps's power is out in the open, you are a more important target regardless of what you claim. 

There is another way for there to be multiple nk's, which is for scum to go back in time and take two shots in one night.  I think we have scum with some pretty powerful PR's, since I'm getting this protection.  I also think multiball or SK are very likely.

I think we may be getting to where we would want to mass claim.  What do other people think?

I enable regeneration.  That is game flavor speak for something normally called something else.

Anyone with this power will know what I am discussing.

I can clarify if needed, and can flavor claim if wanted.

ash - is this your full claim? Regeneration Enabler?

I decline to answer this specific question.

Other thoughts:

Walrus' update to his claim seems somewhat townie, I just don't see scum, especially new scum (Walrus hasn't been scum before, right? Except maybe ongoing games) to do something like that.

ashersky: When you said you could account for night kills to fail, was the sole reason for this that you knew there were regenerating roles?

The accusations against xeiron I don't find convincing. I still would like a yuma lynch. Does everyone here think that all scum were on-wagon bussing their partner D1? Because if not, yuma is by POE the off-wagon scum (I guess it could be ashersky, but for that ash would need to be scum enabling town).

Yes, I believe that missing NKs, if there are any, can be explained by regeneration.

I believe this was Volt's thematic way around having the doctor problem described in his example.

[faust]

The Day end directly after the weekend, right? I think we should get a wagon moving.

This is my lynch pool:

Lynch!: yuma, jotheonah
Would lynch: e, Jimmmmm
Might lynch: xeiron, Walrus
Won't lynch: pingpongsam, nkirbit, EFHW, ashersky, faust

[yuma]

quick thoughts before I head to work for the day.

still like the xeiron lynch, but am also warming up to considering faust. This isn't OMGUS, but rather OMGUR which stands for "OMG you are" doing exactly what I would expect scum to do. This is how I feel about xeiron as well. Specifically I think going into night1 losing a member of the team they had to regroup quick and needed (like desperately needed) a mislynch today. I think perhaps they settled on Walrus and me as the obvious mislynch candidates and have been pushing it since the start of the day. So it isn't OMGUS, it is me seeing exactly what I would expect scum to do given my alignment (which I know to be town, but you guys don't). Hence my suspicion on joth, faust and xeiron.

I think scum remains (maybe not exclusively, but certainy there) in the players that haven't yet claimed... so 2.7, jimmmm, faust, xeiron and others (myself included here). Look back at modern community as an example. In the last few days who were the players that hadn't claimed? Three scum and like 1 townie... In closed games like these scum want to claim last because if they claim something that another player has they can get counter claimed, so the later they claim the better. Of course they are going to use "pro-town" excuses to not claim and everyone will give them uber amounts of towncred because generally speaking, not claiming is the correct move for town... but again I disagree with this current setup. So that is another point against faust, xeiron, etc...

To speak about the points against me, well I have already responded to them. Basically I think it boils down to people thinking it suspicious that I suggested a no-lynch when we came close to day and when archetype was a viable lynch candidate. Initially people thought that because walrus was the other option it must be a walrus-archetype-yuma scum team. Sure. Ok. Except that the obvious move there would have been to vote for xeiron and put all of them at 4 votes. However this has been refuted by a clever technique called "praise." Basically faust and others have said "yeah, but this yuma we are talking about..." and left it at that. How does that have any significance? You can do that to anyone. Everyone here is capable of doing weird stuff as we have seen in this game and others. I am no more capable of doing something bat crazy than the rest of you. So if this is your whole argument, it is worthless. If you have anything else to add to it, let me know. But really I think it is a scummy technique used to manipulate people into thinking that I and only I would be capable of doing something crazy like that and so must be scum, when really, anyone at anytime is perfectly capable of being crazy.

And again I am ready to claim at any timea nd think we should head down that road. I would encourage putting xeiron and maybe faust at the top of that list, but I would be willing to claim whenever in that list that EFHW dictates.

[pingpongsam]

You posit that in this setup claiming is elucidating and that hesitancy to claim may be a scumtell because the later claimants could adapt their claims to fit those already made public knowledge.

Then you suggest that the others claim ahead of you.

[2.71828.....]

And again I am ready to claim at any timea nd think we should head down that road. I would encourage putting xeiron and maybe faust at the top of that list, but I would be willing to claim whenever in that list that EFHW dictates.

I agree with Yuma's whole post there, and specifically this last bit about claiming.  I will claim as EFHW dictates, as I mentioned previously.

PPE:  I read that as Yuma just waiting for the IC to give the green light, not as a "I want everyone else to claim first"

[Jimmmmm]

I will claim at EFHW's request.

Also, will get those re-reads done as per EFHW's request.

[faust]

quick thoughts before I head to work for the day.

still like the xeiron lynch, but am also warming up to considering faust. This isn't OMGUS, but rather OMGUR which stands for "OMG you are" doing exactly what I would expect scum to do. This is how I feel about xeiron as well. Specifically I think going into night1 losing a member of the team they had to regroup quick and needed (like desperately needed) a mislynch today. I think perhaps they settled on Walrus and me as the obvious mislynch candidates and have been pushing it since the start of the day. So it isn't OMGUS, it is me seeing exactly what I would expect scum to do given my alignment (which I know to be town, but you guys don't). Hence my suspicion on joth, faust and xeiron.

I have not pushed Walrus. I have not pushed you since the start of the Day. Really, your case is based on lies. And what's more, is pushing for a lynch scummy now? I guess you would rather no-lynch again, right?

I think scum remains (maybe not exclusively, but certainy there) in the players that haven't yet claimed... so 2.7, jimmmm, faust, xeiron and others (myself included here). Look back at modern community as an example. In the last few days who were the players that hadn't claimed? Three scum and like 1 townie... In closed games like these scum want to claim last because if they claim something that another player has they can get counter claimed, so the later they claim the better. Of course they are going to use "pro-town" excuses to not claim and everyone will give them uber amounts of towncred because generally speaking, not claiming is the correct move for town... but again I disagree with this current setup. So that is another point against faust, xeiron, etc...

So it's suspicious now not to have claimed? You know who the players that claimed are? Exactly those who have come under suspicion so far (and ashersky). Scum will claim when under suspicion, even more likely so than town. Now you're arguing that those who have claimed deserve town points, that's just false logic - they wouldn't have claimed if they hadn't seen the need to. Ashersky is really the only one who claimed without being suspected (and sudgy/chairs, but well, they're "dead" anyway).

To speak about the points against me, well I have already responded to them. Basically I think it boils down to people thinking it suspicious that I suggested a no-lynch when we came close to day and when archetype was a viable lynch candidate. Initially people thought that because walrus was the other option it must be a walrus-archetype-yuma scum team. Sure. Ok. Except that the obvious move there would have been to vote for xeiron and put all of them at 4 votes. However this has been refuted by a clever technique called "praise." Basically faust and others have said "yeah, but this yuma we are talking about..." and left it at that. How does that have any significance? You can do that to anyone. Everyone here is capable of doing weird stuff as we have seen in this game and others. I am no more capable of doing something bat crazy than the rest of you. So if this is your whole argument, it is worthless. If you have anything else to add to it, let me know. But really I think it is a scummy technique used to manipulate people into thinking that I and only I would be capable of doing something crazy like that and so must be scum, when really, anyone at anytime is perfectly capable of being crazy.

What points against you mainly is POE. You advocating no-lynch is just the icing on the cake.

And again I am ready to claim at any timea nd think we should head down that road. I would encourage putting xeiron and maybe faust at the top of that list, but I would be willing to claim whenever in that list that EFHW dictates.

You did you just say about scum wanting to claim last? That aside, I am really against mass-claiming at this point. Everything else aside, we are only one weekend away from the deadline, so a proper discussion of the mass claim results won't be possible. It will only benefit town in that they get more information for their NK.

All of this post just feels so so scummy that I am more than happy with where my vote lies at the moment.

PPE: 3

[faust]

For clarity, let me emphasize this again: I am against mass-claiming today.

[faust]

Also, I will not claim today, not even at EFHW's request.

[EFHW]

I've hesitated to bring this up, but I think I should.  I have my own regeneration power.  This makes me think that pps's claim may not be true, since the combination would make me virtually unkillable.  The fact that he got a lot of the details right, though, means he definitely has knowledge of the regeneration power.  If we have a vig (Walrus), SK or a second scum team, then scum of any kind could be given the regeneration power, I suppose.  I'm not voting now and I don't want any sheeping!  I do want to hear reactions.

[2.71828.....]

well, I believe the IC.  I tend to not trust PPS as much, especially since the only thing that was really stopping me from voting him was his claim.  EFHW, is your regenerative power similar to what PPS described that he (allegedly) has for you where you get it back every night?  Or is it more of a one-shot bulletproof? 

Also, if Ash enables everyone with regeneration, I could easily see him being scum enabling a bunch of town PRs.  But if that is the case I don't really want to lynch Ash yet.  Maybe like D4 or something.

This also makes PPS look a lot like scum trying to get a walrus mislynch.  I will quote xeiron quoting PPS because xeiron really brought this to my attention the best

Okay, now I am practically certain Jotheonah is scum.

What I know is that I am a one-shot regenerating protector. And I specifically protect the doctor. What this means is that should a kill attempt be made on the doctor at night I catch the first bullet and live. Any additional attacks on the doctor will succeed in killing him not me. I am notified of the attempted kill. My power regenerates during the day so it is available on the next night. Obviously time-travel antics could mess with this royally but here is what I know for certain:

sudgy died last night. sudgy claims to have targeted walrus. sudgy died and flipped Town doctor so I should believe all of that.
someone attempted to kill sudgy (or "the doctor", I don't know the identity of "the doctor") and that attempt failed because my power prevented it.
so, either sudgy targeted scum and mafia tried to kill him or sudgy targeted Town and 2 hits were made on sudgy (implying an SK). There are some other possibilities but these two are the most likely and Jotheonah's claim of having targeted sudgy to explain away why I might have witnessed him targeting sudgy (when that wasn't the case but he thought it was before this post) suggests he made the kill attempt on sudgy.

caveat: my role description does not identify "the doctor" so I don't know if sudgy strictly qualified as "the doctor". It is possible my power applies to anyone with doctor in their role. hell, it may only apply to EFHW.

Why did Jotheonah never tell us he witnessed sudgy's target action last night? I specifically put the subtle question out there at the start of today in the context of discussion so that a claim wouldn't have to be made to explain that maybe he did what he said he did.

Although PPS somehow makes this think Joth is scum(?) the real conclusion to what PPS says is that Walrus is scum.  I could also believe regeneration/enablers for both scum and town separately.  I don't know.  But what I do know is that even if PPS is telling the truth (somewhat?) about his claim (the point that it is such a new and interesting role that he couldn't make it up comes to mind- I forget who mentioned it) I think it comes from scum now that EFHW has made his little regeneration claim.  Because that would be super OP for both of them to be town.

yeah, vote: PPS

[WalrusMcFishSr]

I have to say that if EFHW is also regenerating, that does weaken pps' claim somewhat in my mind, although it's not out of the question. Maybe scum shot EFHW, realized it didn't stick, so now pps is trying to play it off as something he did to protect her!

It also does lend plausibility to the multiple bullets theory, for how else is scum supposed to kill regenerating targets without multiple bullets and/or time travel? I guess they could shoot through the enabler/protectors first, but still...multiple factions, bullets, etc. would definitely be appropriate I think.

faust, yes, I am definitely enabled. If you can't believe I didn't notice that from the beginning, well, neither can I.

My new feelings about ashersky have turned this game on its head for me. I was feeling a yuma lynch, but his last few posts have come off as relatively genuine to me, and a quick reskim suggests to me that maybe a xeiron or Jimmmmm lynch could be pretty good. I'll try to be more thorough than that though before I revote.

[2.71828.....]

Okay well I'm kind of caught up on Today's posts. I'm extremely confused, but I'll say what thoughts I do have.

nkirbit's thoughts on Walrus read Towny to me. Unlike others, he analysed actual in-thread evidence rather than trying to guess scum kills and other night actions. What we know on that is pretty simple - sudgy targeted Walrus and died. No one else died. Scum could have killed sudgy, or they could have killed on a different Night. This casts suspicion on Walrus, but in-thread interactions should also be considered.

Not sure what to make of joth vs yuma. I don't understand pps's claim, although I'm pretty sure "the Doctor" or "the doctor" means EFHW.

e read scummy to me, although I can't remember why. Will have to revisit that.

You are missing part of the evidence. What we know:
-Sudgy targeted Walrus and died.
-Scum targeted EFHW, who was protected by pingpongsam. (According to pingpongsam)
-No one else died.

Because this is actually a pretty cut and dry case against Walrus.  Xeiron makes really good points here, but it is based solely on PPS and his claim.  There is the sudgy targeted the doctor, but I am much more inclined to believe scum targeted sudgy, and scum are trying to get a Walrus mislynch.   (not necessarily xeiron anymore, he was just following the logic behind PPS's claim)

[Voltaire]

Vote Count 2.9

jotheonah (1): pingpongsam
Walrus (2): ashersky, xeiron
yuma (1): faust
xeiron (2): yuma, nkirbit
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....

Not voting (4): EFHW, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, Walrus

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

D2 ends on Monday, January 6 at noon forum time