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[Archetype]

And yes, I don't think Yuma will be here until Day 2 at the earliest. I'll certainly be giving him a pass for the rest of the day.

[pingpongsam]

Oh, he has a pass, I mean wth is there to lynch him on? I'm wanting the additional perspective we've been lacking the entire game to date.

[EFHW]

Y I'm at Sea World, shamu says hi.  This walrus lynch is happening too easily.  Someone unvote invite, anyone hammering early will be considered scum

Someone please reread other players and find us a new wagon to compete with this one.  I'm on phone, iffy access atm.  Back later

[Twistedarcher]

Vote Count 1.12

Archetype (2): Jimmmmm, Walrus
xeiron (2): sudgy, 2.7...
Galzria (1): chairs
Walrus (7): faust, jotheonah, nkirbit, ashersky, xeiron, pingpongsam, Archetype

Not voting (2): EFHW, Galzria

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

D1 ends on Friday, December 27 at 530 PM forum time (two days added due to the original deadline falling on Christmas).

That's in ~4 hours.

[xeiron]

Y I'm at Sea World, shamu says hi.  This walrus lynch is happening too easily.  Someone unvote invite, anyone hammering early will be considered scum

Someone please reread other players and find us a new wagon to compete with this one.  I'm on phone, iffy access atm.  Back later

My biggest scumread is Ashersky. I nominate him as another lynch candidate. See this case:

During my discussion with Ashersky about Sudgy some pages back. I developed a scum read on Ashersky.
I got a feeling that Ashersky had decided there was enough scummy things about Sudgy to make a case, and then then to push it as hard as he could. When someone had arguments in favor of Sudgy, he came with counter arguments. I felt Ashersky never stopped to reconsider Sudgy's allignment after new arguments was brought up.
This post gave me the strongest feeling:

I don't see a good reason for lynching sudgy. Could be a fakeclaim, sure, but could just as well be true. Someone with a Weak modifier is quite likely to go to the grave with a guilty result, and would ideally be able to communicate that information to everyone else. Claiming beforehand can be manipulated, sure, but it's the most obvious way of doing it. I think sudgy should claim who he is going to target, and if he dies we don't assume they are scum unless we can eliminate any other ways he could have been killed.

How would you propose we eliminate the possibility that he was:

1) scumteam NK
2) SK NK
3) a different scumteam NK
4) a vig NK
5) busdriven from town to scum

That's just 5 off the top of my head.  I'm sure there are more ways for the guy to die.

Someone doctoring Sudgy or Sudgy flipping hider would rule out the four first. A watcher or voyeur could confirm/not confirm them. A tracker could confirm/eliminate the fifth.
And because this it a time traveling game there is far more likely that the right role targets the right person to the right time in order to give us important information.

What?

Okay, someone could doctor sudgy.  If sudgy is telling the truth, we wasted the doctor's power.  If sudgy is lying, we wasted the doctor's power.  BAD.

He didn't claim Hider, so why would you even mention this?  Bad.

A watcher would have to watch sudgy's target to see sudgy do anything.  A voyeur would confirm someone took an action, but not if that action is weak.  Both can be manipulated.  BAD.

A tracker couldn't confirm busdriving, as a bus driver switches all actions targeting one person to another person.  I think the tracker would see sudgy target the first, but not see that he got results from the second.  Bad.

I think time traveling makes it much harder to target correctly, as opposed to the opposite.  Yeah, when it's late in the game, sure, but early on?  No way.

In this quote I feel Ashersky is focused on refuting all of my statements, not on actually thinking them through.
Dismissing the similarities of hider and weak roles (both dies when targeting scum), but focussing on the fact that hider does not usually have weak in their name, seems rather ignorant to me. And I don't get how doctoring sudgy from a nightkill is "wasting" the doc power if Sudgy still dies from targeting scum.

But I won't say that Asherskys was all wrong in his case. He made several good points. The point about busdriving in the quote over is something I had not thought of. He also made plenty of good points in his other posts. But the case as a whole feel fake to me.


I have felt this way about Ashersky earlier as well when he was scum. In Grimm tales about Chairs the last day, and in Monster Madness when targeting BoxofDOG at the start. Both cases when Ashersky decided on a target, and then pushed for them as long as he could. It is recognizing similarities between this game and these cases that have set of my scumalarm.

Vote: Ashersky

I will Vote Ashersky, to see if we can get a wagon started.
If an totally fine with lynching Walrus, though, And I will switch back if it is needed for a lynch.

[faust]

Walrus' claim is something that makes me want to unvote. Can't explain details now. Obviously, we need another wagon, so vote: Archetype. I will happily switch to e if needed, but I don't think this lynch is happening. I will not vote ashersky.

[nkirbit]

vote: archetype

Not happy with how he jumped on walrus, and I think walrus has been towny of late.

[Archetype]

Well I guess it's back to Vote: Xeiron

[jotheonah]

I'm catching up. I have sort of been going back and forth between walrus and faust, I think one is town and one is scum. I think I may have my vote on the wrong one.

Walrus's case against me is fine. Wrong, but fine. If anything, it makes me think Walrus is more likely to be town. I have been acting kind of anti-town. Posting a lot, not contributing as much as I should. This is kind of my day 1 meta. I'm really bad at the grasping at straws part of this game that is day 1.

And then there's this:

Alright, I'm leaving for today. Hope we somehow get a lynch in. pingpongsam, nkirbit: vote! EFHW: You should push town towards a lynch, maybe even as far as stating an "IC-approved" lynch if necessary. I hope that town manages this without such means, but I am a little afraid of a no lynch at the moment.

I'm always nervous when someone refers to "town" as if they are not part of it. Weaksauce, but worth noting.

My biggest scumread right now is actually nkirbit. That whole "I'm fine with a lynch, but I'm not actually voting thing" allows one to keep one's options open and not look like a trigger happy voter.

-----

And then I read Walrus's claim. I actually don't like it AT ALL. Vig and roleblocker are both scummy powers! And River Song is a bad guy on the show! Could he have claimed a scummier claim? I'm willing to switch to Archetype, but I don't buy this claim at all. FTR, I have a null read on Archetype, but would prefer him over a no lynch.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Well as I said I don't know much about the show, but I was under the impression that River Song was a female companion to the doctor, but with more cool powders than his companions usually have. I didn't read the wiki in depth because I may actually watch it some day!

[jotheonah]

I've only seen sporadic episodes. The only one I saw with her was "Let's kill Hitler" and she definitely seemed super evil in it.

[jotheonah]

Reading the wiki, that seems to have been something of an anomaly. Anyway, the scumminess of the stated roles stands.

Vig is the go-to fake claim for serial killers, roleblockers are more often scum then town. Together, they are a little weird, I'll admit, but it's still not a claim that inspires confidence in me.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Well idk what to tell you about that. I'm just telling it like it is.

[Archetype]

Post count (ordered from most posts to least):
ashersky - 54
faust - 43
EFHW - 39
pingpongsam - 37
jotheonah - 31
Archetype - 28
xeiron - 25
Walrus - 24
Jimmmmm - 22
nkirbit - 21
sudgy - 18
chairs/2.7 -13
Galzria - 3

I'm very confused as to what the 'case' on me is.

[xeiron]

Seems like Ashersky is not viable.
Back to Vote: Walrus, then.
I prefer lynching him over Archetype.

I agree with Jotheonah that Walrus' claim is scummy.
Claiming vig is convenient for people with nightkills. Roleblocker is often a scum role.
His powers seems powerful if he is scum, not so much if he is town. It is for easy scum to roleblock town players. It is much harder to roleblock scum players, as you don't know who they are, and you might cause far more harm than good by blocking some powerful town roles. Time traveling might help here, but only quite late in the game. Vigs is also of questionable utility for town.

I give Walrus about 50 percent chance of flipping scum, and lynching him seems like a low risk-high reward deal.
If we push for another lynch we risk revealing and/or lynching a far better town role. 

[EFHW]

I'm back now until deadline.  I had the same thoughts as Joth about Walrus's roles.  I don't know anything about Dr. Who, though.  But there was literally no push-back on the Walrus lynch, which looks very suspicious to me, and suggests he is town and that there is scum on his wagon, so let's look there more. 

At its peak:  faust, jotheonah, nkirbit, ashersky, xeiron, pingpongsam, Archetype

I'm going to look at voting records.

[nkirbit]

Post count (ordered from most posts to least):
ashersky - 54
faust - 43
EFHW - 39
pingpongsam - 37
jotheonah - 31
Archetype - 28
xeiron - 25
Walrus - 24
Jimmmmm - 22
nkirbit - 21
sudgy - 18
chairs/2.7 -13
Galzria - 3

I'm very confused as to what the 'case' on me is.

Discrediting the case!  Scum tell!

I'm just voting you because I found your vote on walrus to be very scummy. Both the manner and the position. It just came across to me like your goal was to end the day as quickly as possible rather than trying to actually find scum.

[nkirbit]

The whole, "I thought walrus was towny, now I'm not sure, what the heck lets put him to l-1 anyway reeks to me of scum trying to get that final push while setting up to look innocent tomorrow. If you're really not sure, just don't vote. Being unsure is fine, but why vote then?

[jotheonah]

I was unsure before I read the claim. I was typing that post as I went. The claim put me into "comfortable with my vote" territory.

[Archetype]

The whole, "I thought walrus was towny, now I'm not sure, what the heck lets put him to l-1 anyway reeks to me of scum trying to get that final push while setting up to look innocent tomorrow. If you're really not sure, just don't vote. Being unsure is fine, but why vote then?

I voted because I didn't know when I'd leave (which I thought was then, but is actually right now) and I'd rather have a lynch go through for someone who may flip scum and no lynching if two more votes didn't happen. So I voted.

I've explained myself even though I don't acknowledge anything I did wrong. I'll be gone now until about Sunday, so I won't be able to claim (and I sure as heck am not going to now - once I claim I become practically much weaker). Reads are exactly the same exact Walrus has shifted to a scumread.

I'll plant my vote back on Vote:Walrus. I think you're wrong, EFHW.

[EFHW]

Since Arch and xeiron have the biggest wagons of those on the Walrus wagon, I have highlighted their votes in color, and votes for them are underlined.

                  EFHW v. sudgy (2)                        
                Arch v. ashersky (2) [unv. Joth (0)]                           
                     Jimmmmm v. sudgy (3)                     
                     Jimmmmm v. Archetype (2) [unv. sudgy (2)]                     
                        faust v. Archetype (3)               
                  EFHW unv. sudgy (1)                        
               Arch unv. ash (1)                           
      Joth v. ash (2)                                    
         sudgy unv. ash (1)                                 
                           xeiron v. Archeype (4)               
         sudgy v. Archetype (5)                                 
            2.7 unv. Arch (4)                           
      Joth v. xeiron (1) [unv. Ash (0)]                                    
               Arch v. xeiron (2)                           
         sudgy v. xeiron (3) [unv. Arch (3)]                                 
                              Walrus v. sudgy (2)            
   ashersky unv. sudgy (1)                                       
                                 chairs v. xeiron (4)         
                        faust v. joth (1)  [unv. Arch (2)]                  
                              walrus v. nkirbit (1) [unv. Sudgy(0)]            
                                       nkirbit v. Walrus (1)    
                        faust v. Arch (3) unv. Joth (0)                  
      Joth v. nkirbit (2) unv. Xeiron (3)                                    
                                    pps v. sudgy (1)      
                        faust v. sudgy (2) unv. Arch(2)                  
                                 chairs v. sudgy (3)         
         sudgy claims weak modifier to his role                                 
                        faust unvote sudgy (2)                  
   ashersky v. sudgy (3)                                       
                                       nikirbit v. sudgy (4) unv. Walrus (0)   
                        faust v. Arch (3)                  
                                 chairs unv. sudgy (3)         
                              walrus v. sudgy (4) unv. nkirbit (0)            
                                 chairs v. Galzria (1)         
                        faust v. Walrus (1)                  
                                    pps unv. sudgy (3)      
                                       nkirbit unv. sudgy (2)   
            2.7 v. xeiron (4)                           
      Joth v. walrus (2)                                    
                              Walrus v. joth (1) unv. Sudgy (1)            
                           xeiron v. ashersky (1) unv. Arch (2)               
                                       nkirbit v. walrus (3)    
   ashersky v. walrus (4)                                       
                              walrus v. Arch (3) unv. Joth (0)         
                           xeiron v. Walrus (5) unv. Ashersky (0)               
                                    pps v. walrus (6)      
               Arch v. Walrus (7) unv. Xeiron (3)                           
               Arch unvote Walrus (6)                           
               Arch v. Walrus (7)                           
                           xeiron v. ashersky (1) unv. Walrus (6)               
                        faust v. Arch (4) unv. Walrus (5)                   
                                       nkirbit v. Arch (5) unv.Walrus (4)   
               Arch v. xeiron (4) unv. Walrus (3)                           
                           xeiron v. walrus (4) unv. Ashersky (0)               

[2.71828.....]

I do not like a Walrus lynch.

And I do not like how Archetype and Xeiron have both jumped on it the way that they have even after EFHW came out against it. 

[2.71828.....]

unofficial vote count

Archetype (4): Jimmmmm, Walrus, faust, nkirbit
xeiron (2): sudgy, 2.7...
Galzria (1): chairs
Walrus (5): jotheonah, ashersky, pingpongsam, xeiron, archetype

Not voting (2): EFHW, Galzria

[nkirbit]

The whole, "I thought walrus was towny, now I'm not sure, what the heck lets put him to l-1 anyway reeks to me of scum trying to get that final push while setting up to look innocent tomorrow. If you're really not sure, just don't vote. Being unsure is fine, but why vote then?

I voted because I didn't know when I'd leave (which I thought was then, but is actually right now) and I'd rather have a lynch go through for someone who may flip scum and no lynching if two more votes didn't happen. So I voted.

I've explained myself even though I don't acknowledge anything I did wrong. I'll be gone now until about Sunday, so I won't be able to claim (and I sure as heck am not going to now - once I claim I become practically much weaker). Reads are exactly the same exact Walrus has shifted to a scumread.

I'll plant my vote back on Vote:Walrus. I think you're wrong, EFHW.

Why did you switch to Xeiron and now back to Walrus?

[EFHW]

I do not like a Walrus lynch.

And I do not like how Archetype and Xeiron have both jumped on it the way that they have even after EFHW came out against it.

why don't you like that?  Are they supposed to vote like I do?