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[Galzria]

He's sorry he said it now. I bet. For the record, my "persecution" of J as he sees it, is the THIRD person that I've gone after, each, in turn, to look for their own reaction as well as others individual thoughts. I have in NO way singled him out, and yet of the three people I've voted for, none have responded so defensively. Axxle was jumpy, sure, but not like THIS.

So no, J, you aren't special. I haven't set a crusade on you, or gone after you with single mindedness, or anything else. But it's enlightening (to me, at least) that you seem to think so.

I'd be more suspicious of the guy who ignored your crusade and hoped it would go away, personally. But that seemed to have worked great for pops, so I'mma try the same thing. Be back in a few hours. Don't kill me.

Feel free to point me to where I've vowed for Pops since then, or indicated in the slightest that I thought he was town. No, really. Please do.

[popsofctown]

The word you're looking for is "vouched".

I don't care if anyone vouches me.  As long as everyone sheeps my reads when I flip town.

[Glooble]

Okay, when I last posted (like a billion pages ago it seems) I suspected SFS. His contributions since then have me leaning more towards a town read. I feel like Mafia play (even noob Mafia play) would be more calculated.

I feel like this is the point where I should be throwing around a vote, but none of the bandwagons I've seen have really sold me yet. Let's go down the list (by which I mean, everyone whop has votes on them as of the last vote count):

Insomniac:
I'm not certain his jumping on J was just carelessness. But 25 pages is a lot to reread, and especially as he's been involved in MII and MIII, I could see how he could get confused. We all need to be careful to judges people only by the actions they take in this game, or at least keep other games separate. On the other hand, if he were scum he might be trying to join one bandwagon while leaving the other likely bandwagon open for himself, so I see J's point. Right now I'd call him slightly scummy.

Robz888:
I agree with him that one of the Mafia is probably a "pseudo-lurker", since it seems like an easy way for an inexperienced Mafioso to hide (and because it's just statistically likely given the number of Mafia.) Robz himself doesn't read scummy at all to me. He read very scummy to me in MII where he was scum. Of course that doesn't really mean anything, but I haven't seen anything in his posts to convince me he's Mafia.

popsofCtown:
His terse style and refusal to answer questions strikes me as unhelpful. It would be an easy way to play Mafia since the less you talk, the harder it is to catch yourself in a lie. I said before I had suspicions about him, and I still do. I think if I had to vote now, I would vote for him. I would like to hear more from the people who think he's scum. It's more of a gut feeling for me right now than a reasoned analysis and I don't feel like voting based on that at this phase of the game when he already has four votes on him.

Grujah: Given what I said earlier about expecting one of the Mafia to be a pseudolurker, he seems the most likely candidate to me. Again, gut feeling. After this post I might go back and look more closely at his contributions, see if I can find anything odd we might have missed.

jotheonah: SO far his play looks like town play to me, especially seeing as coming off the train wreck that was Mafia II changing up his play style is a sensible move. He looks the tiniest bit scummy to me, but for now I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

DSell: CF's arguments against him could apply to a lot of people. His vote seemed to come out of no where. DSell hasn't really done much to give me a read on him either way.

Okay, so that's it for me for now. I think I'm going look over Grujah's contributions and see if anything sticks out at me. I might also revisit DSell  and Insomniac depending how much time I end up having? We'll see.

btw, I'm now super-paranoid about my posts reading as "fluff" thanks to Robz. If that was your goal, you've accomplished it.

[Insomniac]

SFS is a professional poker player. Since he is A) town and B) good at reading people we should all just copy him.

unvote, vote Robz

What is this? I don't even...

Professional poker player does not mean he's good at reading people online, it means he's good at reading peoples face. (Unless he's a pro online poker player). That said why the hell are you so sure he's town?

Also I can't remember who started it but O didn't start he bandwagon on pops, I did, O made it a bandwagon by joining me

[Insomniac]

SFS is a professional poker player. Since he is A) town and B) good at reading people we should all just copy him.

unvote, vote Robz

What is this? I don't even...

Professional poker player does not mean he's good at reading people online, it means he's good at reading peoples face. (Unless he's a pro online poker player). That said why the hell are you so sure he's town?

Also I can't remember who started it but O didn't start he bandwagon on pops, I did, O made it a bandwagon by joining me

Oops
"Also I can't remember who stated it but O didn't start the bandwagon on pops, I did, O made it a bandwagon by joining me"

[popsofctown]

I talk a lot.  Much of my terseness has been intended to relieve stress on player playing catchup.  If I didn't transform my playstyle no one would ever catch up to the thread.

[popsofctown]

SFS is a professional poker player. Since he is A) town and B) good at reading people we should all just copy him.

unvote, vote Robz

What is this? I don't even...

Professional poker player does not mean he's good at reading people online, it means he's good at reading peoples face. (Unless he's a pro online poker player). That said why the hell are you so sure he's town?

Also I can't remember who started it but O didn't start he bandwagon on pops, I did, O made it a bandwagon by joining me

So you're saying if he is a pro at online poker and forum mafia you would sheep him?

[Glooble]

Okay, one question - is there a way to view only posts by a specific poster?

@pops: that's a reasonable explanation, but doesn't change the fact that it would be a good way to play scum.

[Galzria]

The word you're looking for is "vouched".

I don't care if anyone vouches me.  As long as everyone sheeps my reads when I flip town.

Yes, auto correct on the mobile grabbed the wrong "V" word  and I didn't notice.

[theorel]

He's sorry he said it now. I bet. For the record, my "persecution" of J as he sees it, is the THIRD person that I've gone after, each, in turn, to look for their own reaction as well as others individual thoughts. I have in NO way singled him out, and yet of the three people I've voted for, none have responded so defensively. Axxle was jumpy, sure, but not like THIS.

So no, J, you aren't special. I haven't set a crusade on you, or gone after you with single mindedness, or anything else. But it's enlightening (to me, at least) that you seem to think so.

To be fair Galz, I don't sense any idea of your "single-minded"ness in J's defense.  He used the term persecution, but was referring to the course of multiple games.
his defensiveness is suspicious, so is being pursued twice in the first two days (IMO).  Mafia want us to read suspicion into non-suspicious things, they want to keep bringing the same people under the spotlight until they crack.  And then they'll note how cracking under pressure is a clear sign of mafia, and encourage everyone to vote.  That's why I think bandwagons are the place to look.

[popsofctown]

Okay, one question - is there a way to view only posts by a specific poster?

@pops: that's a reasonable explanation, but doesn't change the fact that it would be a good way to play scum.

Indeed, because it's not the strongest way for me to play the game.

I was faced with playing well, or forcing half the players to replace out.

I didn't like making the choice

I MAY USE EMOTICONS BE WARNED

[theorel]

Okay, one question - is there a way to view only posts by a specific poster?

@pops: that's a reasonable explanation, but doesn't change the fact that it would be a good way to play scum.

I don't know if there's a better way, I just view all posts and ctrl-f the poster's name.

[Captain_Frisk]

DSell: CF's arguments against him could apply to a lot of people. His vote seemed to come out of no where. DSell hasn't really done much to give me a read on him either way.

Let me back this up a bit more.  We've got some vocal people, some middle of the roaders, and some lurkers.  We've been spending alot of time discussing vocal players which results in some large and public bickering, and some of the lurkers - who pop up to say hi, and that seems to calm everyone down.

I decided to look a bit in the middle and see if anything stood out - and I selected DSell for the reasons I outlined in my original post.  I voted (vs. just asking him to say hi / explain himself) - because I believe it to be more useful .  Does a bandwagon start?  Does the accusation draw strong defense?  Does the whole thing get ignored?

I take the opposite approach as Rob when it comes to voting.  I'm happy to vote (to spark discussion), and unvote if I lose confidence.  I don't see how you could ever be so confident on Day 1 that you wouldn't want to keep that flexibility.

That said - explicitly stating that you will make a certain decision and sticking with it can be powerful game theory.  See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_sexes_(game_theory)#Burning_money for a very poor explanation.  It is the reason why the many governments have a strict policy of not negotiating with terrorists.  By leaving the option of negotiation off the table, attempting to hold something ransom has a very poor expected value for a potential terrorist... generally - the loss of your life.

Here's another great example if you want to waste a few minutes of your life: http://welkerswikinomics.com/blog/2012/04/20/golden-balls-game-theory-the-prisoners-dilemma-and-the-cold-rationality-of-human-behavior/

[Captain_Frisk]

Okay, one question - is there a way to view only posts by a specific poster?

@pops: that's a reasonable explanation, but doesn't change the fact that it would be a good way to play scum.

I don't know if there's a better way, I just view all posts and ctrl-f the poster's name.

You can go to an individuals profile and click "Show Posts".  Of course, you'll see posts from other topics as well, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[popsofctown]

Okay, one question - is there a way to view only posts by a specific poster?

@pops: that's a reasonable explanation, but doesn't change the fact that it would be a good way to play scum.

I don't know if there's a better way, I just view all posts and ctrl-f the poster's name.

You need a semicolon there.

[Galzria]

@Theorel:

I do not believe I've referenced in any way the actions of myself or others from other games to draw conclusions, unlike his threat at me.

Also, if I in any way held actions from one game as representative of how I would play in another, I would've come out of the gates swinging for O.

I believe if you look at my play in any of the three games, you'll see few similarities. And in my first game, I never went after J. His threat against me from events in M-III stand with no parallel. I *will not* dismiss someone because I happened to believe something of them from a different game. His chances of being Mafia here are equal to anybody elses when PM's went out, and I've treated him with that intent.

My suspicions have been 100% based in this game. His defenses and responses have not.

[Captain_Frisk]

I don't know if there's a better way, I just view all posts and ctrl-f the poster's name.

You need a semicolon there.

This is true; however, I don't see how this is helping your recently stated goal of helping people catch up who are pages behind.

[popsofctown]

I don't know if there's a better way, I just view all posts and ctrl-f the poster's name.

You need a semicolon there.

This is true; however, I don't see how this is helping your recently stated goal of helping people catch up who are pages behind.

Count the words.

[Galzria]

Also, I'm done talking about that for now. My suspicions are on J right now, for my stated reasons, and that's it.

[Glooble]

Ok, rereading all of Grujah's posts, I saw nothing to tell me he wasn't Mafia. In fact, if I assume he is Mafia his vote for pops just seems way too transparent.

Theorel, I agree with you that the bandwagons, who jumps on them, when, and why are probably our most concrete source of information right now. Would you care to point at what it is in Grujah's record that makes him, in your eyes, the scummiest of the pops voters?

[Glooble]

Sorry, bad typo. The first sentence should read "nothing to tell me he was Mafia." Though I guess the reverse is also true.

[Captain_Frisk]

Count the words.

It's like you are daring us to vote for you.  Why?

[theorel]

@Galz:
No argument from me there, as that was my point.  His defenses were not entirely based in this game, and your defense of your "persecution" of him was.  It's not a point in favor of him for bringing it up.  But you ignored it, hence my "to be fair" comment.  I don't like people talking past each other.

@Glooble (since you posted while I wrote this):
I'll look back over and try to concrete-ify my suspicions.  Note: I still haven't reviewed O's or Galz's posts.  Also Note: I may not be able to get it done before tonight, which may mean that I can't get it done before tomorrow morning (depending on how active the afternoon is).  I'm on EST.

[popsofctown]

Count the words.

It's like you are daring us to vote for you.  Why?

My actions shouldn't make you want to vote me.  Lynch mafia, not scum.
I'm being an irritant because I feel like I only have one liners to work with.  Only one person left to catch up, though, right?

[Dsell]

Right now, I'm feeling some nervousness about DSell.  He's hanging around the middle post count wise, and his major contributions to date have been:

1. Jumping on pops for his terse play yesterday.
2. Railing on SFS - which reads like "picking on noob and hoping he cracks"  Maybe this is good play, but it seemed to go on a little further than was strictly necessary.

While I don't like pops' play, I'm putting him in the "O" camp for now... as in too crazy to get a meaningful read - so I saw DSell as just potentially trying to rile up the town.

Vote: DSell

@Captain_Frisk, I don't believe those are my only contributions, but it's fair to say they're my main ones.

Let me defend my questioning of SFS. First, I think the premise of "don't rail on the noob" is wrong. Like I've said, being new to the game does not preclude him from being mafia, and he DID sign up for playing this game. Maybe he didn't know what he was getting into, but none of these things give him a bye. Furthermore, I had to be persistent because we weren't really getting anything out of him. My "railing" of SFS can be summed up as:

1) "SFS, you haven't said anything of substance, which is suspicious."
(lots more fluff)
2) "SFS, please say something of substance so that we can get an idea of where your head is at."
(even more fluff and minimal substance)
3) "SFS, you still haven't said much of substance, and even your minimal substance has done very little to calm my suspicions."

The reason it was much longer and more drawn out is because he kept posting and posting but I wasn't hearing anything but fluff.

I completely stand by jumping on pops. Separate from whether he is mafia or town, his style is extremely offputting to me, and he has made more posts in the same style recently. So far in this game I have seen a lot of reasons for suspecting people, so I'm going to make a post on that soon.