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[gkrieg13]

Is the because we're going along with them, or because we're just at each other's throats?  DatSwan went through easily, but Galz/O/Teproc, and Robz/mcmc were difficult?  But I know I was part of making Galz/O/Teproc difficult, and I'm town.  (although, I guess they had already died down a bit when I replaced in).  Regardless, scum probably helped us lynch DatSwan...which puts scum in:
Teproc, Robz, Eevee, me, gkrieg, Galz, IDPTG.  (Also O had threatened to hammer). 

Off-wagon we have:
mcmc, ash, EFHW, DatSwan, O.
EFHW and DatSwan are dead, O may as well have been on wagon...that leaves mcmc and ash off.

Do we think any scum stayed off-wagon?  If so, that's basically ash and mcmc.  I dunno, I'm gonna just vote: ashersky and see what happens.  Why not?

Why ash over mcmcsalot?

[theorel]

I find ash's play overall scummier than mcmc's.  And I think mcmc has been in the spotlight more than ash, so putting a spotlight on ash would be better.

However, after giving it some more thought, I really think Galzria is scum.  I think that Galzria yesterday in his argument for why Teproc/O were scum was trying to put himself in town-Galz's shoes.  However, I think he already knew that EFHW was an activated Tracker, and he didn't manage to filter that information out of his reasoning.  Essentially, I think if he knew about one more power role beyond his own, then his over-reaction becomes less over-reactive and more reasoned reaction to the number of Power Roles he's seen.

That seems less convincing written than it seemed in my head.  I'm still going to vote: Galzria though.

I think IDPTG's hammer is also suspicious.  He didn't want to put DatSwan to L-1, but then after Robz goaded him, he was fine with hammering.  I'd like to hear an explanation there as to why he changed his mind that severely...after all L-1 doesn't end the day, it just adds more pressure.  Datswan still could have responded at that point, for instance.  The hammer ends all discussion for certain.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I think IDPTG's hammer is also suspicious.  He didn't want to put DatSwan to L-1, but then after Robz goaded him, he was fine with hammering.  I'd like to hear an explanation there as to why he changed his mind that severely...after all L-1 doesn't end the day, it just adds more pressure.  Datswan still could have responded at that point, for instance.  The hammer ends all discussion for certain.

Good point. vote: Robz

[Galzria]

Well, I either saved myself and killed EFHW, or did nothing.

I redirected to EFHW last night. I don't -believe- scum tried to kill me (especially if I'm correct in my stated reads from yesterday), so I think the kill was natural. The only thing above me in priority (still alive/possible) is Gkrieg, and I doubt he messed with much.

My thought process was that O, if town, was likely to target me to Roleblock. He got ascetic wrong and I was hopeful he got order resolution wrong as well. I also thought scum would have a player with lesser suspicion perform the kill so I didn't want to re-target  to a top read. That brought me to Robz/EFHW as my top two scummy-but-under-the-radar choices. I picked EFHW.

With that said, Robz and Theorel both come across as scum here:

Robz's "Sure would be nice to have more information here" sounds like he knows, as scum, that they tried to shoot me last night but EFHW wound up dead. Like he has foresight into shenanigans.

Theorel takes it a step further - again, his post reads like he knows that I must come out with this information, and is looking to preempt it by calling me out as scum. It's very direct and very targeted, and it explains why he's having trouble even justifying his own case.

With 10 alive (3 scum), a mislynch today places the game into into MyLo {8, 3} tomorrow.

This indicates that O is -probably- Town, as I believe that if scum targeted me to kill then it's because they believed I would redirect to my biggest scum read.

I'll go with a vote: Robz for now.

On another note:

Claimed or known PR's:

Joseph
EFHW
Mcmc
Galz
Teproc
O

Mcmc, who did you target for neighborizer N1?

[O]

Well, I either saved myself and killed EFHW, or did nothing.

I redirected to EFHW last night. I don't -believe- scum tried to kill me (especially if I'm correct in my stated reads from yesterday), so I think the kill was natural. The only thing above me in priority (still alive/possible) is Gkrieg, and I doubt he messed with much.

My thought process was that O, if town, was likely to target me to Roleblock. He got ascetic wrong and I was hopeful he got order resolution wrong as well.

This is absurd. There's a massive difference between accepting that someone could misread a role and assuming that they will. I knew my roleblock was useless against you anyways if you wanted to perform a kill and did not target you.

I read the role description literally to make my mistake. Your proposed mistake involves me not reading the highly visual order resolution at the bottom of the screen.

[O]

From your perspective: If I'm town, you would have redirected me to block... EFHW? She was that strong of a scum read that you wanted to roleblock a potential tracker after giving me shit for roleblocking a one shot doctor?

If I'm scum, do you think EFHW is my scumbuddy after she went after me? Why not just redirect back to me? 


Seriously if you thought I was going to target you as either alignment -- it makes no sense as town

[O]

Do agree that its slightly concerning that Theorel votes for Galzria before Galzria claims to have potentially redirected a kill...


But mitigating that is the fact that EFHW is probably a prime kill target anyways, so regardless of if Galzria was town, it'd be no guarantee the kill was redirected from him anyways.

[gkrieg13]

I think IDPTG's hammer is also suspicious.  He didn't want to put DatSwan to L-1, but then after Robz goaded him, he was fine with hammering.  I'd like to hear an explanation there as to why he changed his mind that severely...after all L-1 doesn't end the day, it just adds more pressure.  Datswan still could have responded at that point, for instance.  The hammer ends all discussion for certain.

Good point. vote: Robz

Good point. vote: IDPTG

[Robz888]

Galz, I have no “foresight into shenanigans,” I was just hoping someone was going to know something.

Oh and vote: Galz

I’ll post my full case tomorrow but I don’t think efhwh died because you redirected to her (why would scum shoot you? And why would town!you want efhw to die??), I think she died because you killed her.

[Robz888]

Theorel’s points about IDP make sense too. I’ve found him scummy all game but we can never get a wagon going there. Probably that means something.

[Robz888]

And is there a reason Tep and O are holding back night actions? I guess they would say if they thought it would tell us anything. O, if you blocked Galz last night, you should speak up, that would actually mitigate my scum read on him.

[O]

And is there a reason Tep and O are holding back night actions? I guess they would say if they thought it would tell us anything. O, if you blocked Galz last night, you should speak up, that would actually mitigate my scum read on him.

I pretty much confirmed I did not block Galzria last night in my last post.

[Eevee]

O’s case on Galzria is compelling.

[Galzria]

Look, everybody all good with lynching me just like Swan. You're all so gullible it's ridiculous. Pay attention people, and stop being sheep. Use those individual thinking skills and actually look for scum.

[O]

Look, everybody all good with lynching me just like Swan. You're all so gullible it's ridiculous. Pay attention people, and stop being sheep. Use those individual thinking skills and actually look for scum.

I am.

why EFHW?

[Galzria]

Look, everybody all good with lynching me just like Swan. You're all so gullible it's ridiculous. Pay attention people, and stop being sheep. Use those individual thinking skills and actually look for scum.

I am.

why EFHW?

Because I scum read you yesterday, and there was a non-zero chance you would attempt to roleblock me last night (as town or scum). You're correct, anybody who looks at the setup resolution wouldn't target me (but you had already messed the setup up once) - but if you assume that, and are in my position, then you assume nobody will ever target you (because why bother?). You're the only claimed role I could imagine doing something with having your power (ie. you targeting me), and I didn't think scum would have their scummiest players perform the kill (If you are scum, for example, I doubt you performed the kill).

As I scum read you yesterday, something you said raised flags on EFHW - Mainly that the play on solo-scum you (Teproc isn't your partner) didn't add up because I "didn't take into account a Tracker". You're right, I didn't. But that wouldn't have mattered if EFHW was your partner. Add in that, despite what you've said here a few posts ago, I felt EFHW was doing her best to derail trains against you later in the day (she was on early - a good place for a partner, but then jumped off when the heat got turned up and went into defense mode on you). This put her towards the top of my list of "potential O partners".

Honestly, hell if I know if scum actually targeted me to kill. The only way that really makes sense to me is if:

A) You're town and scum wanted/expected me to redirect to you
B) You're scum and thought you could Roleblock and then kill me (obviously, again, missing the setup resolution)

But really, I expected none of two things to happen to me:
1) Scum tries to kill me
2) You try to roleblock me

And in both cases I was ok with redirecting to EFHW. It's great to pretend I should've known she was town and all - but you know, town doesn't actually know these things.

[O]

I honestly didn't come into today thinking I'd be gunning for your lynch but this just doesn't add up in the slightest from the town!Galz perspective

1) If I'm scum, you'd much rather redirect back to me than guess EFHW. If I'm town, why is anyone trying to kill you? Teproc I guess?
2) Given that you scum read me yesterday, you are claiming you then operated under the assumption that I 1) would continue to misread the setup (If I'm scum, why believe that I misread it to start with...?) and 2) Wouldn't go over my plan with my scumbuddies?

Like would the other scum just be sharing my delusions, or am I not talking to them in this scenario.

I get that town!Galz doesn't know EFHW was town last night. But you scumread me. Your one claim of suspicion on EFHW is a scum-pairing where I'm the other scum. It just seems I would be the redirect target.

[Galzria]

Why would I redirect you? I don't believe scum!O does the NK, and I don't believe scum try and kill me if you're scum because of the CHANCE that I redirect to you.

Seriously, what at all do I gain by redirecting to you if I think you're scum?

[O]

ah

yeah, fair enough

[Galzria]

I mean, you realize I don't ACTUALLY have a power unless somebody targets me with SOMETHING, right? The odds I do anything at all are already extremely small regardless, and that only happens if somebody fucks up the setup.

[Galzria]

[Teproc]

Yeah, I don't think Galz's night action is great, but I guess I don't see how town!Galz would use it in a productive way anyway, and I don't see what scum!Galz gains from claiming this either. I guess it can alleviate the whole "PRs are suspicious because why did scum shoot EFHW instead" maybe ? Meh.

I think people should take more time to reread (I will at some point this week when I have the time). We got day 2 very, very wrong.

[mcmcsalot]

Coincidences are adding up. I have lots to say and still need to read pages 36 through now. I’ve only skimmed. Sorry final cruise day and flight days took more time than expected.

Will be reading when I can and catching up by this evening.

[Eevee]

Vote: ash

I'm not not suspicious of Galzria, but this doesn't seem like something that he would need to lie about if he was scum. Interested to hear what mcmc has to say, I'd like to update my read on him.

(Robz's case on Galzria interests me as well, if it's still coming.)

[O]

The scummiest thing about galz is choosing EHFW, not not choosing me. Mostly because it’s hard to see her as the largest or second largest after me scum read.

I ‘m slightly worried i’m a lamb being led to slaughter by Eevee, because I seem to be agreeing with him all the time