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[Awaclus]

Wtf why does the bitcoin forum look exactly like the dominion forum this is weird af

Because every Simple Machines Forum ever looks like this and they're both SMF.

[Awaclus]

Death Note (2007)

For what it's worth, the 2006 live action movies are way better. They diverge from the anime's plot after about episode 6 (not quite completely, but very drastically), specifically by leaving out a lot of stupid stuff and replacing it with stuff that's both more intellectually compelling and makes for a more exciting narrative.

[silverspawn]

Sweet, I didn't know that there was an early live-action adaptation. I'll watch it.

[silverspawn]

("way better" would be a very high bar here)

[Awaclus]

("way better" would be a very high bar here)

(I actively regret spending time on watching the Death Note anime to completion, so it is not a high bar for me. But the movies are decent.)

[silverspawn]

Death Note The Moive (2006)

This movie covers the story until about the halfway point. The plot is very similar to the anime, and since both were derived from the manga, that probably means they were both pretty faithful.

Changes to the story are:

- There are a few additional steps, including regarding the plot hole I mentioned where everyone automatically assumes that the killings are done by an individual; the movie addresses this. These changes are all fantastic. At one point L mentions the law of large numbers, and the movie actually cuts to a different conversation so you don't hear what point he makes, but I happen to know the law of large numbers and know what point he was going to make, and made perfect sense, as did every other argument they added. I'd like to think this is stuff I would have done if I had the data and were in this case. And that's unfortunately a pretty high bar; usually when movies try to incorporate mathy concepts it doesn't make a lot of sense.

- Light is quite different. He starts off being portrayed as much more human-like and less robotic, and he also has a girlfriend. I was wondering how they'd proceed since this doesn't really align with the plot points, but then they just did the plot points anyway. Which is pretty interesting, and you could consider it both bad and good. Bad because now it's inconsistent, or good because now he goes through an arc; he becomes a psychopath as the story goes on. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet.

- The last plot point with the wife of the detective that was following Light is changed. I think the version in the movie is better. This was actually an episode I outright skipped in the anime because I remembered finding it emotionally painful. But even if it wasn't, I think the movie version is more interesting. Although there is a pretty big caveat here, which is that it relies on her telling Light that she's the husband of the detective, which is a profoundly stupid thing to do. And this wasn't necessary, you couldn't have just had Light figure it out on his own.

- L is different. It's not by much; he basically has the same characteristics, but the details are different. The L from the anime has this slow, methodical nature that I think is lost in the movie character. It's kinda weird because you'd think the life-action version would be more grounded, but instead I feel like his version more over the top, and unfortunately I really don't like it. Like with the anime character, I always viewed the eating sweets thing as, you're doing this incredibly difficult job that requires you to be on top of your intellectual game constantly, and this is a way to make it more bearable. In the life-action version it just feels like has an addiction. It looks like a detail but it changes so much.

Aside from  changes, the movie constantly felt a bit strange, I think just because it is a pretty out there story, and it sort of feels more natural to have that kind of story in anime format. This might go away if I viewed more life-action adaptations of manga.

Gonna wait with the rating until I see the second one, but probably 7 or 8. I realize I only really had one critique, but L was the main thing that made the anime so good, so selling his character is pretty key.

[silverspawn]

Oh and there's this bit where they mention that Light's father hasn't slept in 3 days because he's bothered by Light being under suspicion. Thankfully this has no bearing on anything because it was the worst line of the movie. Relevant context here is ofc that I didn't sleep for about three days after catching covid, and if you actually experienced this, I doubt you'd write that line.

[silverspawn]

Hey listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxZRAFPGxys. Maybe the whole Trump is legally barred from becoming president thing has some teeth after all.

[silverspawn]

That could be the market reacting

[silverspawn]

You might think a conservative supreme court would never rule similarly. But I'm not entirely sure. The thing is that people who know Trump personally tend to think he's a complete idiot whether they're conservatives or not. The whole fantasy that he's actually smart is much easier to sustain if you only hear his public appearances. And of course, supreme court judges have much less public pressure on them than congress members

[silverspawn]

Consider how many cases we have of people who've known Trump personally shitting on him in private while praising him in public, considering that probably only a small percentage of those ever get out. I would not be surprised if the conservative supreme court judges don't actually like Trump very much, and if they don't, that reduces the bias significantly.

[silverspawn]

Ironically this would actually be disastrous news for Biden's chances because boy do I not see him winning against Haley.

[silverspawn]

Biden said that he perhaps wouldn't be running if Trump wasn't. Imagine if Trump gets kicked off the ballot and Biden steps down.

[faust]

Consider how many cases we have of people who've known Trump personally shitting on him in private while praising him in public, considering that probably only a small percentage of those ever get out. I would not be surprised if the conservative supreme court judges don't actually like Trump very much, and if they don't, that reduces the bias significantly.

I don't really think whether they personally like him or not comes into it at all. It's more like, do they think that he is the best person to get them want they want? And I think he's still a useful tool for the authoritarian Christian right.

[Awaclus]

- Light is quite different. He starts off being portrayed as much more human-like and less robotic, and he also has a girlfriend. I was wondering how they'd proceed since this doesn't really align with the plot points, but then they just did the plot points anyway. Which is pretty interesting, and you could consider it both bad and good. Bad because now it's inconsistent, or good because now he goes through an arc; he becomes a psychopath as the story goes on. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet.

My take is that Light was always a psychopath but he didn't have much of a purpose in life until he found the Death Note, so he was just doing a generic overachiever thing because why not. His girlfriend is a part of that; having a girlfriend is what society would expect from a generic successful-at-life university student, so he has one. IIRC he is never particularly affectionate towards her at any point and as you know by now, he murders her as soon as it slightly helps him with his Death Note related goals. A psychopath could obviously also just love a person romantically, it's just Light in particular who probably doesn't feel that way about his girlfriend and is only using her as a means to an end.

Aside from  changes, the movie constantly felt a bit strange, I think just because it is a pretty out there story, and it sort of feels more natural to have that kind of story in anime format. This might go away if I viewed more life-action adaptations of manga.

For me, after I got used to the CGI shinigamis, the only part that really stuck out as ridiculously out-of-place in live action was in the second movie where they mostly didn't remove the scenes about the manga author's not-very-subtle bondage kink.

[silverspawn]

Consider how many cases we have of people who've known Trump personally shitting on him in private while praising him in public, considering that probably only a small percentage of those ever get out. I would not be surprised if the conservative supreme court judges don't actually like Trump very much, and if they don't, that reduces the bias significantly.

I don't really think whether they personally like him or not comes into it at all. It's more like, do they think that he is the best person to get them want they want? And I think he's still a useful tool for the authoritarian Christian right.

If you think the judges have low enough integrity that they care about things other than what the law says, why does it end at political goals? Voting based on politics seems about equally immoral as voting on personality.

Also, why would Trump even be good for their political goals? Haley is the most likely alternative, and according to the markets, she has a whopping 79% chance to become president conditional on winning the nomination, vs. around 49% for Trump. The number is probably pretty volatile, but nonetheless, if you want a conservative president, getting rid of Trump seems beneficial, and if you want to get a president who has Christian values, it also seems beneficial.

If you want an authoritarian president in particular, then Trump would be your guy, but do you really think justices want that?

[silverspawn]

- Light is quite different. He starts off being portrayed as much more human-like and less robotic, and he also has a girlfriend. I was wondering how they'd proceed since this doesn't really align with the plot points, but then they just did the plot points anyway. Which is pretty interesting, and you could consider it both bad and good. Bad because now it's inconsistent, or good because now he goes through an arc; he becomes a psychopath as the story goes on. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet.

My take is that Light was always a psychopath but he didn't have much of a purpose in life until he found the Death Note

Yeah that's a reasonable take. It's also more realistic.

as you know by now, he murders her as soon as it slightly helps him with his Death Note related goals. A psychopath could obviously also just love a person romantically, it's just Light in particular who probably doesn't feel that way about his girlfriend and is only using her as a means to an end.

I think that scene works with both interpretations since the movie ends on that plot point. So either it means that his evolution into a psycho is now complete, or that he now revealed to the audience what he's really like.

But actually the way it's communicated is more in line with your interpretation since Ryuk asks him if he ever loved her and he's like "eh".

[faust]

If you want an authoritarian president in particular, then Trump would be your guy, but do you really think justices want that?

Yes, I think many Republicans want to end democracy, and Trump is currently their best shot at doing so. I can't speak to the judges personally, but they have largely supported the push towards authoritarianism in the past, and are financed by people who want the same thing.

[silverspawn]

Yeah, we really disagree there then. I doubt that any of the judges wants to end democracy, including the ones that Trump put there. I also don't think donors play a big role there.

[faust]

I also don't think donors play a big role there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/09/22/clarence-thomas-here-are-all-the-ethics-scandals-involving-the-supreme-court-justice-amid-koch-network-revelations/

[silverspawn]

I also don't think donors play a big role there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/09/22/clarence-thomas-here-are-all-the-ethics-scandals-involving-the-supreme-court-justice-amid-koch-network-revelations/

Does this really support your case? It seems like all of these numbers here are pretty small, like all of them are below a million dollars. If it were really about money, there's hundreds of people in the USA that could easily outbid these puny favors and steer the justice in their direction.

This is also my general problem with the money in politics hypothesis. There's so little money that if it had causal influence, it seems to lead to absurd conclusions. This is a pretty extreme case where we're talking about one of only nine justices in  the supreme court, so a person with enormous power, and he is purchasable by less than a million? That  can't be right.

So my general view is more that politicians get socially close with people whose values they share anyway and then maybe they have some marginal influence, but not much. And I don't see why that's not still the best explanation here. I mean the guy is already conservative, so it's not surprising if he rules the way that conservative donors like.

[silverspawn]

This model still says that donors have some influence since influential people hang out with them, and people naturally converge toward views that are popular in their social environment. But they essentially choose their environment based on their prior beliefs so on net the effect isn't very large.

[faust]

Does this really support your case? It seems like all of these numbers here are pretty small, like all of them are below a million dollars. If it were really about money, there's hundreds of people in the USA that could easily outbid these puny favors and steer the justice in their direction.

What people? Justice already is in favor of the rich, so it's not like much needs to be done there.

This is also my general problem with the money in politics hypothesis. There's so little money that if it had causal influence, it seems to lead to absurd conclusions. This is a pretty extreme case where we're talking about one of only nine justices in  the supreme court, so a person with enormous power, and he is purchasable by less than a million? That  can't be right.

I'm not sure what those adsurd conclusions are. Clarence Thomas threatened to step down as a Supreme Court judge because he didn't earn enough money to pay off his debts, and right-wing millionaires saw a way to keep him in that wouldn't cost them all that much, so they did. It's probably hard to bribe someone into ruling on a specific case in a particular way, but it's easy to keep people in power that you can expect to generally rule in your interest.

[silverspawn]

Does this really support your case? It seems like all of these numbers here are pretty small, like all of them are below a million dollars. If it were really about money, there's hundreds of people in the USA that could easily outbid these puny favors and steer the justice in their direction.

What people? Justice already is in favor of the rich, so it's not like much needs to be done there.

Well, left-leaning millionaires or billionaires

It's probably hard to bribe someone into ruling on a specific case in a particular way, but it's easy to keep people in power that you can expect to generally rule in your interest.

Yeah, I think I'd agree with that. But I'd describe that as very limited influence.

[faust]

Does this really support your case? It seems like all of these numbers here are pretty small, like all of them are below a million dollars. If it were really about money, there's hundreds of people in the USA that could easily outbid these puny favors and steer the justice in their direction.

What people? Justice already is in favor of the rich, so it's not like much needs to be done there.

Well, left-leaning millionaires or billionaires

Even if those existed in any significant capacity, the left-leaning position is usually to keep money out of politics, so by doing this they would act contrary to their own beliefs.