Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Those piles are fickle little creatures  (Read 1714 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TheExpressicist

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 200
  • Respect: +203
    • View Profile
Those piles are fickle little creatures
« on: February 08, 2015, 10:24:14 am »
0



Code: [Select]
Crossroads, Herbalist, University, Advisor, Bandit Camp, Count, Mandarin, Royal Seal, Tribute, Wharf
https://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150208/log.5144ecf7e4b0bef57ec85b7d.1423405598265.txt

So first, the shameless gloating; that final turn buy/gain of 4xAdvisors+Province+Estate pileout for the 1-point win was one of the more satisfying victories I've had in recent memory.

Now for the questions. I'm curious as to everyone else's take on this game.

1. What's the best open here? My thought was, obviously Wharf is going to be the dominant card; it's a shelters game so I have necro for +Actions, and Crossroads is on the board which can soak up some extra coin. So I didn't think the +Actions from University would be necessary early on. I don't usually like to open Silver/Silver (and then I wound up picking up a third silver on T3.... yuk.) but I thought Potion-Silver would be too slow. However, although my deck initially loaded up faster, his four Universities really allowed him to ramp up his deck to the next level once his engine started going.

2. At what point do you buy the Count? I thought his T3 purchase was too soon, since his deck was already going to be a bit slower due to the University open. And my T11 purchase was too late, but I felt like I had to win the Wharf pile to stand a chance, so I didn't want to use up any $5 buy/gains.

3. Was it a mistake for my opponent to go after Bandit Camps so heavily? I deliberately ignored them until the end because I thought that the Spoils would gum up the engine. My thought was, I would have gone for a mix of Advisors and Bandit Camps. He needed card draw due to losing the Wharf split. And since he had 4 Universities, he'd be in a much better position to control the pile-out of Bandit Camps if he needed to end the game.
Logged

-Stef-

  • 2012 & 2016 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1574
  • Respect: +4419
    • View Profile
Re: Those piles are fickle little creatures
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2015, 02:39:51 pm »
+3

1. What's the best open here? My thought was, obviously Wharf is going to be the dominant card; it's a shelters game so I have necro for +Actions, and Crossroads is on the board which can soak up some extra coin. So I didn't think the +Actions from University would be necessary early on. I don't usually like to open Silver/Silver (and then I wound up picking up a third silver on T3.... yuk.) but I thought Potion-Silver would be too slow. However, although my deck initially loaded up faster, his four Universities really allowed him to ramp up his deck to the next level once his engine started going.
I'd go with Silver/Potion. Skipping university is always tempting on boards with Wharf. But you will hit a number of <5$ hands, and you need some cards to buy on those turns. Here I'd say that's too weak with only Crossroads and Advisor. Not opening with potion but going for it later on in the game can't be good here. The positive way to look at it would be "you realized your mistake just in time to still have a chance" but it's sort of inconsistent.

2. At what point do you buy the Count? I thought his T3 purchase was too soon, since his deck was already going to be a bit slower due to the University open. And my T11 purchase was too late, but I felt like I had to win the Wharf pile to stand a chance, so I didn't want to use up any $5 buy/gains.
There are several ways to approach this that could work. Getting the Count ASAP and trash fast to increase the frequency of your Universities, or first get all the Wharves so you can do some efficient trashing later. What your opponent does here - get the Count quickly but then delay on trashing - is very inconsistent and probably what cost him the game. His first Count hand is a bit disappointing for trashing but he still should take it. But turn 3 Wharf for him looks a lot safer regardless, especially if he realizes contesting wharves against a silver/silver opening is important.

3. Was it a mistake for my opponent to go after Bandit Camps so heavily? I deliberately ignored them until the end because I thought that the Spoils would gum up the engine. My thought was, I would have gone for a mix of Advisors and Bandit Camps. He needed card draw due to losing the Wharf split. And since he had 4 Universities, he'd be in a much better position to control the pile-out of Bandit Camps if he needed to end the game.
Getting Bandit Camps at some point looks good, just for the money. But here your opponent misses on the timing. He still hasn't trashed down and all the incoming spoils will hurt that process. The game ends 2-3 turns too soon for his buildup plan.


On a side note, I think you want 2 Universities here. Getting 4 of them hurts your drawing too much. Universities often get overbought. The fact that the first couple of them are great does not automatically imply you should keep buying them.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

Throwaway_bicycling

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 151
  • Respect: +140
    • View Profile
Re: Those piles are fickle little creatures
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2015, 05:07:17 pm »
+1

1. What's the best open here? My thought was, obviously Wharf is going to be the dominant card; it's a shelters game so I have necro for +Actions, and Crossroads is on the board which can soak up some extra coin. So I didn't think the +Actions from University would be necessary early on. I don't usually like to open Silver/Silver (and then I wound up picking up a third silver on T3.... yuk.) but I thought Potion-Silver would be too slow. However, although my deck initially loaded up faster, his four Universities really allowed him to ramp up his deck to the next level once his engine started going.
I'd go with Silver/Potion. Skipping university is always tempting on boards with Wharf. But you will hit a number of <5$ hands, and you need some cards to buy on those turns. Here I'd say that's too weak with only Crossroads and Advisor. Not opening with potion but going for it later on in the game can't be good here. The positive way to look at it would be "you realized your mistake just in time to still have a chance" but it's sort of inconsistent.
So although it didn't happen here, does this mean on 5/2 you would open Potion/- or Potion/Crossroads? The other obvious $5 cards are Wharf and Count, but since you do want two universities, you'd like the Potion early...but both Wharf and Count are cards you may want and help in their own way to cycle. Part of me screams "Open Count/-", but since no part of me is better than a level 20-something schmo, I don't always trust that little voice.

2. At what point do you buy the Count? I thought his T3 purchase was too soon, since his deck was already going to be a bit slower due to the University open. And my T11 purchase was too late, but I felt like I had to win the Wharf pile to stand a chance, so I didn't want to use up any $5 buy/gains.
There are several ways to approach this that could work. Getting the Count ASAP and trash fast to increase the frequency of your Universities, or first get all the Wharves so you can do some efficient trashing later. What your opponent does here - get the Count quickly but then delay on trashing - is very inconsistent and probably what cost him the game. His first Count hand is a bit disappointing for trashing but he still should take it. But turn 3 Wharf for him looks a lot safer regardless, especially if he realizes contesting wharves against a silver/silver opening is important.

3. Was it a mistake for my opponent to go after Bandit Camps so heavily? I deliberately ignored them until the end because I thought that the Spoils would gum up the engine. My thought was, I would have gone for a mix of Advisors and Bandit Camps. He needed card draw due to losing the Wharf split. And since he had 4 Universities, he'd be in a much better position to control the pile-out of Bandit Camps if he needed to end the game.
Getting Bandit Camps at some point looks good, just for the money. But here your opponent misses on the timing. He still hasn't trashed down and all the incoming spoils will hurt that process. The game ends 2-3 turns too soon for his buildup plan.


On a side note, I think you want 2 Universities here. Getting 4 of them hurts your drawing too much. Universities often get overbought. The fact that the first couple of them are great does not automatically imply you should keep buying them.
[/quote]
Logged

ThaddeusB

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 133
  • Respect: +140
    • View Profile
Re: Those piles are fickle little creatures
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 12:50:43 pm »
0

I would open silver-potion and get Count on my first chance. On a 5-2 I would take Count-crossroads.  The plan then is to trash as much as possible, relying on University to contest the Wharfs. If I lose the supply, so be it (although thinned deck should make it a closer race) - I'd rather have the right deck than all staring cards and 6 wharf.  I I'd  pick up 2 bandit camps before considering switching to advisor.
Logged

-Stef-

  • 2012 & 2016 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1574
  • Respect: +4419
    • View Profile
Re: Those piles are fickle little creatures
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2015, 01:02:31 pm »
+1

...If I lose the supply...
Playing against a legend? ;)

But yes on 5/2 I agree with delaying the potion. Both Wharf and Count could work out, I'd probably also go with count. If you get to $4 on your non-Count hand you're really happy.
After a Silver-Potion opening I feel more like delaying the Count and going with Wharf first. The risk of 'bad trashing hands' increase quickly and the relative value of trashing decreases (you trash a smaller part of your deck).
Logged
Join the Dominion League!
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.093 seconds with 21 queries.