Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Flip5ide on June 17, 2014, 08:25:48 pm
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There's a lot of cards in Dominion that I seriously underestimated as a beginner being exposed to newer cards through online play.
Here's a few of my "Wow that looked weak" cards:
Ambassador
Chapel
Rebuild
Anyone else have a card they thought was weak when they first saw it?
...Or alternatively, a card that you overestimated. For me, that was Bureaucrat. I used to self-veto it when picking cards for games IRL.
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...Or alternatively, a card that you overestimated. For me, that was Bureaucrat. I used to self-veto it when picking cards for games IRL.
You can't possibly have overestimated Bureaucrat - it's the strongest card in the game!
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I, like everyone, underestimated trashing, though I underrated Moneylender a lot more than Chapel. I also underestimated Junk Dealer (well I thought it was extremely good, but that was still an understatement), Governor, Goons and Watchtower (I mean, it gets rid of the Curse, and it returns your hand size back to 6 after a discarding attack, so it's kind of like Moat but it just costs $3 ::)).
And I overrated like every card, but especially Golem, Trader, Workshop (it looks so powerful when you compare it to Feast!), Cellar (though it actually used to be better than it is now because I didn't use trashing) and Spy (if I discard a bad card every time, it's like a Lab but it also attacks!).
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I seriously underestimated Jack of All Trades at first glace, and continued to for awhile even after getting trounced by it. I guess I didn't playing games with it until I was already pretty decent with the other sets, so it just seemed pretty meh if you take the bonuses one at a time. The Spy effect is rather weak, it has worse draw than Watchtower, one-at-a-time trashers are way slow, and you get more middling treasure - but all together, you have one heck of a card that's useful on a lot of boards.
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
The first thing I thought upon reading Rebuild was, "Isn't this ridiculously powerful?"
I think my default assumption about cards is that they're good. I've overestimated a lot of cards, though.
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
I underestimated Jack slightly, but I still knew it was powerful. I never underestimated IGG or Rebuild.
That is probably because I started playing with them after joining the community and the cards were already out for a while ::)
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
I underestimated Jack slightly, but I still knew it was powerful. I never underestimated IGG or Rebuild.
That is probably because I started playing with them after joining the community and the cards were already out for a while ::)
See, I'm the old fogey (and I'm certainly not the oldest on here) who remembers the Hinterlands spoilers back in '11. And we were all "well that's a funky thing" with JoaT.
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So... No one here played Village Idiot their first game? I bought my first set when Prosperity came out. I've always overestimated +Action cards and underestimated Attack cards.
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Merchant Guild: I think a lot of players still underestimate this one.
I'm not claiming it's super powerful, just better than what people generally think.
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Merchant Guild: I think a lot of players still underestimate this one.
I'm not claiming it's super powerful, just better than what people generally think.
I overestimated it at first. I still think it's pretty powerful, just less so than what I initially thought.
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Hunting Party was a big one that doesn't appear intuitively powerful.
Also, I agree that Golem is not nearly good enough to buy a potion for, although I see it done all the time. I mean sure, the effect is pretty cool but I mean if you want to be waiting like 5-6 more turns to use it.
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Duke, Library, Gardens, Ambassador and Apothecary.
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
I think the original estimations of IGG are pretty accurate and people overestimate the card now. Sure, if there's nothing else going on you can play a one-card strategy and it seems like IGG is really powerful, but after Sea Hag it's my favorite card to ignore, and I think uncontested IGG can end the game in 20 turns or something if it's lucky? Yeah I'll play the other thing thank you.
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
I think the original estimations of IGG are pretty accurate and people overestimate the card now. Sure, if there's nothing else going on you can play a one-card strategy and it seems like IGG is really powerful, but after Sea Hag it's my favorite card to ignore, and I think uncontested IGG can end the game in 20 turns or something if it's lucky? Yeah I'll play the other thing thank you.
I also don't think IGG by itself is usually going to win you games. But I do enjoy using it tactically to give my opponents Curses at critical junctures or to run out piles when it's advantageous for me. You don't have to rush Ill-Gotten Gains for it to be useful, I think.
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
I think the original estimations of IGG are pretty accurate and people overestimate the card now. Sure, if there's nothing else going on you can play a one-card strategy and it seems like IGG is really powerful, but after Sea Hag it's my favorite card to ignore, and I think uncontested IGG can end the game in 20 turns or something if it's lucky? Yeah I'll play the other thing thank you.
I also don't think IGG by itself is usually going to win you games. But I do enjoy using it tactically to give my opponents Curses at critical junctures or to run out piles when it's advantageous for me. You don't have to rush Ill-Gotten Gains for it to be useful, I think.
IGG doesn't have to be a monolithic strategy. You can even get a few in the presence of other cursers in a slog game. An almost Silver that helps you with the curse split is not something that should be auto-ignored.
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
I think the original estimations of IGG are pretty accurate and people overestimate the card now. Sure, if there's nothing else going on you can play a one-card strategy and it seems like IGG is really powerful, but after Sea Hag it's my favorite card to ignore, and I think uncontested IGG can end the game in 20 turns or something if it's lucky? Yeah I'll play the other thing thank you.
I also don't think IGG by itself is usually going to win you games. But I do enjoy using it tactically to give my opponents Curses at critical junctures or to run out piles when it's advantageous for me. You don't have to rush Ill-Gotten Gains for it to be useful, I think.
IGG doesn't have to be a monolithic strategy. You can even get a few in the presence of other cursers in a slog game. An almost Silver that helps you with the curse split is not something that should be auto-ignored.
All of this is true, but the "conventional wisdom" is that an IGG rush is so powerful and so strong that you can never play anything but a slog in its presence, and there are alternatives to this so often
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
I think the original estimations of IGG are pretty accurate and people overestimate the card now. Sure, if there's nothing else going on you can play a one-card strategy and it seems like IGG is really powerful, but after Sea Hag it's my favorite card to ignore, and I think uncontested IGG can end the game in 20 turns or something if it's lucky? Yeah I'll play the other thing thank you.
I also don't think IGG by itself is usually going to win you games. But I do enjoy using it tactically to give my opponents Curses at critical junctures or to run out piles when it's advantageous for me. You don't have to rush Ill-Gotten Gains for it to be useful, I think.
IGG doesn't have to be a monolithic strategy. You can even get a few in the presence of other cursers in a slog game. An almost Silver that helps you with the curse split is not something that should be auto-ignored.
All of this is true, but the "conventional wisdom" is that an IGG rush is so powerful and so strong that you can never play anything but a slog in its presence, and there are alternatives to this so often
I don't think that people generally think that way, though. At least they don't play that way.
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
I think the original estimations of IGG are pretty accurate and people overestimate the card now. Sure, if there's nothing else going on you can play a one-card strategy and it seems like IGG is really powerful, but after Sea Hag it's my favorite card to ignore, and I think uncontested IGG can end the game in 20 turns or something if it's lucky? Yeah I'll play the other thing thank you.
I also don't think IGG by itself is usually going to win you games. But I do enjoy using it tactically to give my opponents Curses at critical junctures or to run out piles when it's advantageous for me. You don't have to rush Ill-Gotten Gains for it to be useful, I think.
IGG doesn't have to be a monolithic strategy. You can even get a few in the presence of other cursers in a slog game. An almost Silver that helps you with the curse split is not something that should be auto-ignored.
All of this is true, but the "conventional wisdom" is that an IGG rush is so powerful and so strong that you can never play anything but a slog in its presence, and there are alternatives to this so often
I don't think that people generally think that way, though. At least they don't play that way.
Perhaps. I guess my point is that I think IGG is a weak card.
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
I think the original estimations of IGG are pretty accurate and people overestimate the card now. Sure, if there's nothing else going on you can play a one-card strategy and it seems like IGG is really powerful, but after Sea Hag it's my favorite card to ignore, and I think uncontested IGG can end the game in 20 turns or something if it's lucky? Yeah I'll play the other thing thank you.
I also don't think IGG by itself is usually going to win you games. But I do enjoy using it tactically to give my opponents Curses at critical junctures or to run out piles when it's advantageous for me. You don't have to rush Ill-Gotten Gains for it to be useful, I think.
IGG doesn't have to be a monolithic strategy. You can even get a few in the presence of other cursers in a slog game. An almost Silver that helps you with the curse split is not something that should be auto-ignored.
All of this is true, but the "conventional wisdom" is that an IGG rush is so powerful and so strong that you can never play anything but a slog in its presence, and there are alternatives to this so often
IGG-Gardens is an example of star-crossed lovers though.
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IGG-Gardens is an example of star-crossed lovers though.
I feel like Gardens is like one of those popular guys/girls in high school, great-looking, really talented and will end up very successful, and really friendly to everyone (I'm imagining an oboe player here; anyone?). One of those people who gets homecoming king/queen by a landslide. Gardens is wooed and sought after by all the kids at the school; Ironworks, Beggar. Gardens can deal with all the bullies who pick on everyone else; Mountebank, Ambassador. Gardens gets along great with the other guys/girls who are just like him/her only not quite as pretty; Silk Road, Feodum.
IGG is that guy on the football team who is 3 feet taller than everybody else and everybody is afraid to talk to. His buddies on the football team; Coppersmith, Salvager; are the only people that really hang out with him, but Gardens is of course nice to IGG just like everybody else. IGG thinks that Gardens' attention means affection and has a misplaced crush on him/her.
I feel like Thief is that nerdy kid Gardens is with, who isn't all that popular, but everyone knows they're going to grow up and get married and live happily ever after and make lots of babies. IGG always thought that Thief -- wait for it -- stole Gardens away from him (oh, yes, it's so good) but the truth is, IGG has nothing on Thief -- s/he is just perfect for Gardens <3 <3 <3
ADK? You up for another fanfic?
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What just happened?
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IGG-Gardens is an example of star-crossed lovers though.
(I'm imagining an oboe player here; anyone?).
You know what the difference is between an oboe and an onion? No one cries when you slice apart an oboe.
Seriously, there's a reason Prokofiev picked the oboe to be the duck.
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IGG-Gardens is an example of star-crossed lovers though.
(I'm imagining an oboe player here; anyone?).
You know what the difference is between an oboe and an onion? No one cries when you slice apart an oboe.
Seriously, there's a reason Prokofiev picked the oboe to be the duck.
What do you have against ducks?
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IGG-Gardens is an example of star-crossed lovers though.
(I'm imagining an oboe player here; anyone?).
You know what the difference is between an oboe and an onion? No one cries when you slice apart an oboe.
Seriously, there's a reason Prokofiev picked the oboe to be the duck.
I was picturing an oboe player because it takes a lot of talent to get pleasant sounds out of an oboe, and Gardens is the type of person who is just that talented at everything s/he does.
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I thought Cellar was a lot more powerful than it is when I first started. When I would get Cellar on the board instead of Chapel, I would think "Well, I can't trash cards, but I can cycle through them, so that should be good enough..."
So, yeah.
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Masquerade... I used to just think it was mostly a silly card that just was meant for the fun of messing around with people's decks.
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Throne Room. Of course playing cards twice is good, but Throne Room a Throne Room for the first time and your mind explodes.
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So... No one here played Village Idiot their first game? I bought my first set when Prosperity came out. I've always overestimated +Action cards and underestimated Attack cards.
I definitely remember opening Village / Smithy in a number of games.
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
I think the original estimations of IGG are pretty accurate and people overestimate the card now. Sure, if there's nothing else going on you can play a one-card strategy and it seems like IGG is really powerful, but after Sea Hag it's my favorite card to ignore, and I think uncontested IGG can end the game in 20 turns or something if it's lucky? Yeah I'll play the other thing thank you.
I also don't think IGG by itself is usually going to win you games. But I do enjoy using it tactically to give my opponents Curses at critical junctures or to run out piles when it's advantageous for me. You don't have to rush Ill-Gotten Gains for it to be useful, I think.
IGG doesn't have to be a monolithic strategy. You can even get a few in the presence of other cursers in a slog game. An almost Silver that helps you with the curse split is not something that should be auto-ignored.
I just played a game like that last night! http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140618/log.516d31dbe4b082c74d7b3391.1403155530359.txt - double Sea Hag into three IGGs to drive home the un-trashable Curses. What a disgusting slog.
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I thought Cellar was a lot more powerful than it is when I first started. When I would get Cellar on the board instead of Chapel, I would think "Well, I can't trash cards, but I can cycle through them, so that should be good enough..."
Whenever I saw Cellar on Isotropic I thought, "Great, Chapel, I'll take that for $4!"
I played Village idiot. My group also loved Ironworks: "You get more Actions? For free?"
Chapel and Ambassador were of course undervalued. More interestingly, I didn't get Trading Post. "Wait, so you turn 2 Coppers into one Silver? What's the point of that?"
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The big struggle Thief has with Gardens is that he/she doesn't know what to do with when they're alone together.
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mh, minion i guess. before i played online dominion i just thought the card was pretty useless, a silver or exchange 5 cards for 4 both is pretty bad
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Masquerade... I used to just think it was mostly a silly card that just was meant for the fun of messing around with people's decks.
I mean, that is what it is…. The fact that it's also a really powerful single-card trasher that fits into both engine and money strategies is really just a pleasant accident.
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Prince, it looks too expensive to be really strong. We'll see...
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Prince, it looks too expensive to be really strong. We'll see...
I agree with this. I think it will be a card that hardly ever gets bought.
The problem is that you likely won't have a deck full of $4's worth colliding this with and cost reducers to attach a $5 are hard to come by and hitting $8 is pretty fricking hard.
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Prince, it looks too expensive to be really strong. We'll see...
I agree with this. I think it will be a card that hardly ever gets bought.
The problem is that you likely won't have a deck full of $4's worth colliding this with and cost reducers to attach a $5 are hard to come by and hitting $8 is pretty fricking hard.
But...But... you could make a deck that just plays itself every turn with Highway and Prince. have to try that against a bot.
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Prince, it looks too expensive to be really strong. We'll see...
Maybe it plays a bit like a (Treasure Map) gambit in that you could try to get lucky early and cruise for the rest of the game?
I wonder if a strategy like this will beat BM-Smithy:
- Open Smithy/Silver
- On first $8, get Prince
- On $4, get Smithy
- On $3, get ...?
- Whenever you get the chance, Prince the Smithy
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Prince, it looks too expensive to be really strong. We'll see...
When I first got my hands on it, I asked myself, "Is this really worth $8?" It turns out the answer is, "Haha who cares this is awesome!"
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Prince, it looks too expensive to be really strong. We'll see...
When I first got my hands on it, I asked myself, "Is this really worth $8?" It turns out the answer is, "Haha who cares this is awesome!"
Gahhh I just want this to get on Goko!
EDIT:
Before we can answer when it will be completed, we need to figure out how we can fit it into our schedule, as we didn't have any advance knowledge of the Prince card. We'll post a general update on our current projects shortly.
It seems no one told Goko about Prince...
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Prince, it looks too expensive to be really strong. We'll see...
When I first got my hands on it, I asked myself, "Is this really worth $8?" It turns out the answer is, "Haha who cares this is awesome!"
Gahhh I just want this to get on Goko!
EDIT:
Before we can answer when it will be completed, we need to figure out how we can fit it into our schedule, as we didn't have any advance knowledge of the Prince card. We'll post a general update on our current projects shortly.
It seems no one told Goko about Prince...
100% this has tons of bugs when it comes out
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1st bug - Every turn, Prince lets you set aside a card to play every turn Prince lets you set aside a card to play every turn Prince lets you.....
Hey, it's Goko. I wouldn't be surprised.
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1st bug: game crashes when you play it on a Duration.
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Nah, 1st bug lets you play it on a Treasure card.
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1st bug? Do they, like, develop one bug first, then continue to develop more bugs?
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1st bug? Do they, like, develop one bug first, then continue to develop more bugs?
By making one obvious bug, they can hide all the bugs they haven't found yet. They easily fix it and everyone thinks they are doing a great job. It's a conspiracy!
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Prince probably won't have a bug. It'll just work in a confusing manner that encourages you to trash or discard cards by accident.
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Ah yes. Share button space with other functions. Maybe the new guys will use different colors?
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We all underestimated Jack of all Trades. And Ill-Gotten Gains. And Rebuild.
I underestimated Jack slightly, but I still knew it was powerful. I never underestimated IGG or Rebuild.
That is probably because I started playing with them after joining the community and the cards were already out for a while ::)
See, I'm the old fogey (and I'm certainly not the oldest on here) who remembers the Hinterlands spoilers back in '11. And we were all "well that's a funky thing" with JoaT.
Agreed. My first reaction to JoaT was: haha, that does so many things, that's ridiculous but endearing, like Transmute. I'm probably going to lose lots of games because I buy this card and try to make it work even though it sucks.
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Prince, it looks too expensive to be really strong. We'll see...
When I first got my hands on it, I asked myself, "Is this really worth $8?" It turns out the answer is, "Haha who cares this is awesome!"
Gahhh I just want this to get on Goko!
EDIT:
Before we can answer when it will be completed, we need to figure out how we can fit it into our schedule, as we didn't have any advance knowledge of the Prince card. We'll post a general update on our current projects shortly.
It seems no one told Goko about Prince...
Well, he did that whole symbol name change thing in the 90s, maybe that confused them?
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Prince, it looks too expensive to be really strong. We'll see...
When I first got my hands on it, I asked myself, "Is this really worth $8?" It turns out the answer is, "Haha who cares this is awesome!"
Gahhh I just want this to get on Goko!
EDIT:
Before we can answer when it will be completed, we need to figure out how we can fit it into our schedule, as we didn't have any advance knowledge of the Prince card. We'll post a general update on our current projects shortly.
It seems no one told Goko about Prince...
Well, he did that whole symbol name change thing in the 90s, maybe that confused them?
The card formerly known as Really Old Joke.