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[Galzria]

Doing my next reread now: But as I'm doing it, the thought that if Tep/O are scum I'm going to be very upset crossed my mind - not because they don't deserve to win if they are (they do) - but because I'm wasting my damn time doing this when there's a 0% chance I win here.

Also, while I'm doing this (and as it's my only day off over the course of a 10-day, 90 hour work span), DAMA.

Still rereading. More DAMA than before.

[Galzria]

Fausty, the Snow Man:

A lot of his early stuff revolved around Redirector. I'm not sure how I feel about this... but maybe I just don't really have a feeling about the role itself. I mean, while it's only 2-shot, if feels strictly better than Doctor to me (as it can be Doctor <Target Living Player A> Redirect <Target Dead Player B>, but can also serve other functions <Target Scum Poisoner> Redirect <Target other Scum>)... Am I wrong? In the below, faust say's it's not a strong town role... but I think I disagree. If faust is scum, he knows where the Poisoner is, so it's conceivable he wants to know where a Redirector is too:

I tentatively agree with this, but would also include the 2-shot Redirector.

Why include that claim?

For the same reasons as the Posioner? It's not a strong town role, it's a strong scum role. Plus if the Smoke Monster bid Summon Mother again, we can force them to either fakeclaim another slot or fakeclaim that role from the slot; a decision they'd have to make at some point anyway, but forcing it early forces this without much additional information and we could get a slip up.

Also, If faust is scum, it's quite possible that his partner Iguana bid on this role and failed to get it - leading faust to know for certain that it is, in fact, in play.


Ha. Arguing with the Town Redirector. Funny stuff:

I would argue that it is a stronger town role than people give it credit for.

Well last game no townie bid for it, so it seems you are in a minority position there.

Faust actually addresses most of what I've been on about above in the below quote... but... I dunno:

vote: Faust

Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.

What does this mean?

Redirector role should make you worried if you are scum, if town took it.

Wow, err ok. You definitely have better gkrieg parsing skills than me!

The implication is that scum!me tries to out a town Redirector? I mean no. That is just not how I do things.

I guess I just hate self-aware posts. And I know I'm guilty of them sometimes too (does that make this sentance a self-aware post?) - but the way this is stated is both defensive and self-aware. Maybe it's my bias because of my feelings after rereading Space. Anyway, I suppose it's not super relevant. Still haven't seen much interaction from Faust outside of the Redirector and Poisoner stuff. What's missing so far (from a town!Faust read) is the usual questioning that he does. He prods everybody and everything when he's town. Here... he just seems to have opinions, no questions. Again, maybe confirmation bias. Gonna keep rereading.


Weak, Weak, Weak. It was then, it is now:

Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?

He used too many exclamation marks.

Circling back, Faust, could you clarify your read of iguana for me D1? Because I'm just getting a constant feel for mixed signals:
Nullish?

Nullish?

Townish?

Scummish?

Best line of the game:

I would've thought more people would be here at 8:30 EST but what do I know?

You know nothing, John Locke.

Townie, unless it's coaching, and then it's scummy:

Right now I feel like I don't have like a solid skum lead on anyone, so I am not going to cast a vote right this moment. If we still have no movement by tomorrow evening I will force out a chum2skum list and cast for the skummiest.

Also you don't need a solid scum lead to vote. All you need is pretend that you do.

Townie:

Scummy (Not really - except I don't recall Town!Faust ever striking me as joke-y):

Townie:

RR Hmmm...

RR Hmmm...

RR Hmmm...

Datswan Hmmm...

Eevee Hmmm...

See? The below is absolutely what I feel like town!faust believes:

Sorry. I know I was a bit aggressive there, that's not a nice tone. You are right that I should not have responded that way. I apologize. I know part of it is just mild annoyance about past performance, but I will try harder to not let that bleed into this game.

As far as the WW case goes, I guess I don't see the scumminess there. I agree that questions are easier for scum than reads, but they are also a pro-town thing, and I thought WW's reaction to the Poisoner claim before was on the townie side.

Faust loves his questions when he's town. I get annoyed at him and scum read him often because he tends to ask many questions but not post reads. And when he finally does post "reads", it's simply to mark who should and should not be lynched on the day (based, I'm sure, on the questions - but he generally doesn't STATE that). This game, the questions are lacking, and he's seemed to want to justify all of his reads. It just feels... backwards.


Datswan Hmmm...

This interaction is SUPER weird:

I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.

I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!

faust, tell them I'm town please

I don't know yet, but I will know by D3 the latest, so it seems stupid to lynch you now.

How exactly do you know you'll be alive D3, hm?

Are you trying to convince me to lynch you?   

no, i'm not trying to. I'm trying to understand if you're scum because you may as well be

You're nullish. I have no particular reason to lynch you. Plus you're easy to read later on, so even among my null reads, you are low priority.

And... I'm finally into D2 (lol). There's so much here that I'm really not sure I can really draw conclusions based on content.

Things that stand out from D1:

Faust really pushes RR for a majority of D1. He leaves the wagon shortly after it heating up to 6 votes, and then rejoins once it's died down. Early on, Iguana was the first vote on RR and jumped off before it became a thing. Can anybody with experience tell me how Scum!Faust tends to treat his scummates? It's noticeable that he had almost 0 interaction with Space D1, as well as almost no interaction with Iguana (he glossed over the claim early on, and seemed to engage more in the talk regarding Redirector). If he's scum, and his pattern is to NOT engage with teammates (as would be evidenced by Iguana/Space), then I think the most likely scummate is Eevee based off D1 play. He interacted heavily with RR, and some with Datswan. He had limited interaction with me and less with Eevee.

---------
*To be continued*

[Eevee]

Break from my reread. This amused me D1, and it amuses me now. Oh the challenges of Mafia. The following two posts were literally made back-to-back, 7 seconds apart, following LL's claim. One of two things are true now (and were then, but we had less information then): WW is town and Eevee is town, or WW is town and Eevee is scum. They're both reading the same game though. They're both reading the same posts. And they both come to absolutely 100% different opinions on the exact same things. In a completely black and white universe, I think this would suggest Eevee is scum - but here, I just think that it is what it is. Two people reading things two completely different ways.

I think LL is town.

LL sure sounds like scum.

But I was right!

[Galzria]

Break from my reread. This amused me D1, and it amuses me now. Oh the challenges of Mafia. The following two posts were literally made back-to-back, 7 seconds apart, following LL's claim. One of two things are true now (and were then, but we had less information then): WW is town and Eevee is town, or WW is town and Eevee is scum. They're both reading the same game though. They're both reading the same posts. And they both come to absolutely 100% different opinions on the exact same things. In a completely black and white universe, I think this would suggest Eevee is scum - but here, I just think that it is what it is. Two people reading things two completely different ways.

I think LL is town.

LL sure sounds like scum.

But I was right!

Define right? I agreed with you, and kept my vote on him. And he WAS scum. But not the kind anybody had in mind when those posts were made. WW wasn't wrong, really. Neither were you. But that isn't really the point. The point was just that one player saying "X" can lead two different players to read them in polar opposites.

[Eevee]

Define right: Ww said LL was town, that was untrue. I said he sounds like scum, which he was.

Anyway, not the point I know. I just like to take my small victories, knowing I'm usually wrong. Drunk DAMA for like 10 minutes, I'll be asleep shortly.

[faust]

Also, If faust is scum, it's quite possible that his partner Iguana bid on this role and failed to get it - leading faust to know for certain that it is, in fact, in play.

If I am town, then I bid on Redirector and failed to get it. Note that this does not mean I know for certain that it is in play, because there is another role in that same slot - Summon Mother. And that is the main reason I pushed for the claim, because I thought it would help out the SK.

[Galzria]

Also, If faust is scum, it's quite possible that his partner Iguana bid on this role and failed to get it - leading faust to know for certain that it is, in fact, in play.

If I am town, then I bid on Redirector and failed to get it. Note that this does not mean I know for certain that it is in play, because there is another role in that same slot - Summon Mother. And that is the main reason I pushed for the claim, because I thought it would help out the SK.

SK hunting is a scum tell. Just ask our gracious host.

But in all seriousness, yes, your claim works fine if you're town. Everybody's claims do.

[Galzria]

You lynched someone! Good job, humans! Treats all around! Right?

Vote Count 4.Final

Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (6): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee, 2.71828
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671

Not Voting (0):

With 10 alive it took 6 to lynch.

SpaceAnemone has been crossed off Jacob's list. They were Penelope Widmore, the Others-aligned Watcher.

Night 4 begins now and lasts for 48 hours. Thread locked.

At work for 9 hours today and tomorrow both, with a social outting tomorrow after work. I won't have time to continue my reareads until Monday at the earliest.

But I can do single post type stuff while here - so let's look at the end of day yesterday:

How viable were each of the lynch's, and what does each of them suggest?

Possible lynches:

Faust: (Preferred Lynch): e, DatSwan (Would Lynch): Space, Galzria --- I think this was the least likely lynch to occur. I don't think O or Teproc would've switched over unless it meant no lynch instead - and even then I'm not certain they would have (especially following the lack of hammers on Space, if Space was on Faust - I dunno). As for Eevee and Qvist, I don't think either would've switched either, but I could be wrong. Regardless, I don't believe there was any chance of this happening.

Galzria: (Preferred Lynch): Datswan, Space (Would Lynch): Teproc, O, Eevee --- This is slightly more viable, and Space knew it. Teproc and O had been scum reading me for days, and until very recently had been pushing me as the primary lynch for the day. While e really did not want to lynch me, it's completely reasonable that he would've hammered if I were the only option for a lynch. Unfortunately, had my lynch occured, A) The game would likely be over (unless e RB'd a NK), but B) The switch of players involved would not have told us much about the gamestate (since Tep/O are all but guaranteed to be town). That is, the only people really responsible for getting scum off the lynch hook would've been the two most likely town players.

Datswan: (Preferred Lynch): e, faust, RR (Would Lynch): Galzria, Space - Now this one is interesting. Space didn't really throw Swan out there as a possible "not Space" lynch until the very end - in fact only in a single post just before the lynch itself did Space even bring up Swan as a possible alternate lynch. Noticeably, prior to the lynch, e was on Swan and Space was NOT - that would've put Swan at 4 vs Space at 5. Had even one of me or Eevee or Qvist jumped ship on Space and gone over to Swan at that point Tep/O would've been faced with a switch or no-lynch situation. What was the worst thing that could happen here for Space? If Datswan is town and we successfully make the switch, Space wins. If Swan is town and we end at No-Lynch, scum is in a much better place than they are now - and I look scummy as hell. And if Space ends up getting lynched anyway, scum is in the same spot as they are now, and I still look scummy as hell for trying to derail Space's lynch.

The only thing Space has to lose here is if Swan is scum, right? Moreover, only if Swan is more important scum than Space - because why wouldn't Space be doing everything possible to avoid their own lynch here?

Looked at another way:

Let's assume for a moment (my perspective here) Swan is town: He's set on me, another townie, won't move. Space is scum, and two of RR/Faust/Eevee are scum with him. Either both scum buddies are already on Swan, or one (Eevee) is currently on him and could switch to Swan. e has already said he strongly prefers Swan. If Space goes there and Eevee is his partner, that's an easy switch - puts Swan at 5 to Space's 4 - it would force somebody to move (and lose), or no-lynch. This right here suggests that Space/Iguana/Eevee/{RR/Faust} are almost 100% NOT the scum team. Now, what if Space's partners are {RR/Faust}? Space switches to Swan, putting Swan at 4 (with e) to Space's 5. This is possible, and would've required either Eevee or I to switch over to Swan (something I was probably more inclined to do than Eevee) in order to get the same 5:5 split. While this may not be super likely, it was probably moreso than Space continuing to try and push my lynch - and I don't see why Space wouldn't have at the very least have explored this possability.

The interesting side effect of all of this is that Datswan should be considering Eevee or myself to be scum extremely unlikely at this point - because if either of us were scum with Space then between us and Space, and e, we could've forced a 5:5 split (Tep/O/Qvist/X/Swan on Space vs Faust/RR/Space/e/X on Swan) - and it would've come down to who gave first: Teproc or e (or neither and we go no-lynch, also a win for scum here).

What this all boils down to then, is that from an end of day standpoint:

Datswan is super scummy - not just for not voting Space, but also for Space's refusal to pursue him as a viable alternative lynch when faust/RR were parked there, and e made it extremely clear that Swan was his preferred lynch choice.

On the flip side, if Swan IS Town, I find it -extremely- unlikely that Eevee is scum.

I think I'll move Swan up and reread him following my conclusion of faust.

[Galzria]

I'll post whenever I get asked a question, but late game wagon analysis is something that I am like 0% at.

Yay! Well, why Faust? You weren't on the wagon for Space, but I also don't think you were around. Then again, neither was Faust. Swan was. He wasn't on the lynch either. So why Faust?

Which brings me back to this: You were on Swan before. Why Faust with no reason now?

[Roadrunner7671]

I'll post whenever I get asked a question, but late game wagon analysis is something that I am like 0% at.

Yay! Well, why Faust? You weren't on the wagon for Space, but I also don't think you were around. Then again, neither was Faust. Swan was. He wasn't on the lynch either. So why Faust?

Which brings me back to this: You were on Swan before. Why Faust with no reason now?

I think O, Teproc,  and Eevee are town. I know I'm town. That leaves you/Datswan,Faust. The more you post, the less likely I think you are to be scum, so that leaves Datswan and Faust. I voted for Faust because he feels more likely today that Datswan.

[Teproc]

I will note here that scum needs two town votes on town for a quickhammer. Just noting it.

RR, have you reread DatSwan and faust ?

[Roadrunner7671]

RR, have you reread DatSwan and faust ?

I looked at all of Faust besides D1 but I haven't reread Datswan.

[Teproc]

RR, have you reread DatSwan and faust ?

I looked at all of Faust besides D1 but I haven't reread Datswan.

This is lylo-ish so ideally you should really reread everyone, but barring that (long game, limieted time, I get it) at the very least you should reread everyone in your lynchpool.

Also, why is Eevee town ?

[Roadrunner7671]

The optimal plan is for me to start a reread at about 11:00 forum time and end by like 11:45.

[Swowl]

You lynched someone! Good job, humans! Treats all around! Right?

Vote Count 4.Final

Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (6): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee, 2.71828
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671

Not Voting (0):

With 10 alive it took 6 to lynch.

SpaceAnemone has been crossed off Jacob's list. They were Penelope Widmore, the Others-aligned Watcher.

Night 4 begins now and lasts for 48 hours. Thread locked.

At work for 9 hours today and tomorrow both, with a social outting tomorrow after work. I won't have time to continue my reareads until Monday at the earliest.

But I can do single post type stuff while here - so let's look at the end of day yesterday:

How viable were each of the lynch's, and what does each of them suggest?

Possible lynches:

Faust: (Preferred Lynch): e, DatSwan (Would Lynch): Space, Galzria --- I think this was the least likely lynch to occur. I don't think O or Teproc would've switched over unless it meant no lynch instead - and even then I'm not certain they would have (especially following the lack of hammers on Space, if Space was on Faust - I dunno). As for Eevee and Qvist, I don't think either would've switched either, but I could be wrong. Regardless, I don't believe there was any chance of this happening.

Galzria: (Preferred Lynch): Datswan, Space (Would Lynch): Teproc, O, Eevee --- This is slightly more viable, and Space knew it. Teproc and O had been scum reading me for days, and until very recently had been pushing me as the primary lynch for the day. While e really did not want to lynch me, it's completely reasonable that he would've hammered if I were the only option for a lynch. Unfortunately, had my lynch occured, A) The game would likely be over (unless e RB'd a NK), but B) The switch of players involved would not have told us much about the gamestate (since Tep/O are all but guaranteed to be town). That is, the only people really responsible for getting scum off the lynch hook would've been the two most likely town players.

Datswan: (Preferred Lynch): e, faust, RR (Would Lynch): Galzria, Space - Now this one is interesting. Space didn't really throw Swan out there as a possible "not Space" lynch until the very end - in fact only in a single post just before the lynch itself did Space even bring up Swan as a possible alternate lynch. Noticeably, prior to the lynch, e was on Swan and Space was NOT - that would've put Swan at 4 vs Space at 5. Had even one of me or Eevee or Qvist jumped ship on Space and gone over to Swan at that point Tep/O would've been faced with a switch or no-lynch situation. What was the worst thing that could happen here for Space? If Datswan is town and we successfully make the switch, Space wins. If Swan is town and we end at No-Lynch, scum is in a much better place than they are now - and I look scummy as hell. And if Space ends up getting lynched anyway, scum is in the same spot as they are now, and I still look scummy as hell for trying to derail Space's lynch.

The only thing Space has to lose here is if Swan is scum, right? Moreover, only if Swan is more important scum than Space - because why wouldn't Space be doing everything possible to avoid their own lynch here?

Looked at another way:

Let's assume for a moment (my perspective here) Swan is town: He's set on me, another townie, won't move. Space is scum, and two of RR/Faust/Eevee are scum with him. Either both scum buddies are already on Swan, or one (Eevee) is currently on him and could switch to Swan. e has already said he strongly prefers Swan. If Space goes there and Eevee is his partner, that's an easy switch - puts Swan at 5 to Space's 4 - it would force somebody to move (and lose), or no-lynch. This right here suggests that Space/Iguana/Eevee/{RR/Faust} are almost 100% NOT the scum team. Now, what if Space's partners are {RR/Faust}? Space switches to Swan, putting Swan at 4 (with e) to Space's 5. This is possible, and would've required either Eevee or I to switch over to Swan (something I was probably more inclined to do than Eevee) in order to get the same 5:5 split. While this may not be super likely, it was probably moreso than Space continuing to try and push my lynch - and I don't see why Space wouldn't have at the very least have explored this possability.

The interesting side effect of all of this is that Datswan should be considering Eevee or myself to be scum extremely unlikely at this point - because if either of us were scum with Space then between us and Space, and e, we could've forced a 5:5 split (Tep/O/Qvist/X/Swan on Space vs Faust/RR/Space/e/X on Swan) - and it would've come down to who gave first: Teproc or e (or neither and we go no-lynch, also a win for scum here).

What this all boils down to then, is that from an end of day standpoint:

Datswan is super scummy - not just for not voting Space, but also for Space's refusal to pursue him as a viable alternative lynch when faust/RR were parked there, and e made it extremely clear that Swan was his preferred lynch choice.

On the flip side, if Swan IS Town, I find it -extremely- unlikely that Eevee is scum.

I think I'll move Swan up and reread him following my conclusion of faust.

You lynched someone! Good job, humans! Treats all around! Right?

Vote Count 4.Final

Galzria (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (6): O, Teproc, Galzria, Qvist, Eevee, 2.71828
DatSwan (2): faust, RoadRuner7671

Not Voting (0):

With 10 alive it took 6 to lynch.

SpaceAnemone has been crossed off Jacob's list. They were Penelope Widmore, the Others-aligned Watcher.

Night 4 begins now and lasts for 48 hours. Thread locked.

At work for 9 hours today and tomorrow both, with a social outting tomorrow after work. I won't have time to continue my reareads until Monday at the earliest.

But I can do single post type stuff while here - so let's look at the end of day yesterday:

How viable were each of the lynch's, and what does each of them suggest?

Possible lynches:

Faust: (Preferred Lynch): e, DatSwan (Would Lynch): Space, Galzria --- I think this was the least likely lynch to occur. I don't think O or Teproc would've switched over unless it meant no lynch instead - and even then I'm not certain they would have (especially following the lack of hammers on Space, if Space was on Faust - I dunno). As for Eevee and Qvist, I don't think either would've switched either, but I could be wrong. Regardless, I don't believe there was any chance of this happening.

Galzria: (Preferred Lynch): Datswan, Space (Would Lynch): Teproc, O, Eevee --- This is slightly more viable, and Space knew it. Teproc and O had been scum reading me for days, and until very recently had been pushing me as the primary lynch for the day. While e really did not want to lynch me, it's completely reasonable that he would've hammered if I were the only option for a lynch. Unfortunately, had my lynch occured, A) The game would likely be over (unless e RB'd a NK), but B) The switch of players involved would not have told us much about the gamestate (since Tep/O are all but guaranteed to be town). That is, the only people really responsible for getting scum off the lynch hook would've been the two most likely town players.

Datswan: (Preferred Lynch): e, faust, RR (Would Lynch): Galzria, Space - Now this one is interesting. Space didn't really throw Swan out there as a possible "not Space" lynch until the very end - in fact only in a single post just before the lynch itself did Space even bring up Swan as a possible alternate lynch. Noticeably, prior to the lynch, e was on Swan and Space was NOT - that would've put Swan at 4 vs Space at 5. Had even one of me or Eevee or Qvist jumped ship on Space and gone over to Swan at that point Tep/O would've been faced with a switch or no-lynch situation. What was the worst thing that could happen here for Space? If Datswan is town and we successfully make the switch, Space wins. If Swan is town and we end at No-Lynch, scum is in a much better place than they are now - and I look scummy as hell. And if Space ends up getting lynched anyway, scum is in the same spot as they are now, and I still look scummy as hell for trying to derail Space's lynch.

The only thing Space has to lose here is if Swan is scum, right? Moreover, only if Swan is more important scum than Space - because why wouldn't Space be doing everything possible to avoid their own lynch here?

Looked at another way:

Let's assume for a moment (my perspective here) Swan is town: He's set on me, another townie, won't move. Space is scum, and two of RR/Faust/Eevee are scum with him. Either both scum buddies are already on Swan, or one (Eevee) is currently on him and could switch to Swan. e has already said he strongly prefers Swan. If Space goes there and Eevee is his partner, that's an easy switch - puts Swan at 5 to Space's 4 - it would force somebody to move (and lose), or no-lynch. This right here suggests that Space/Iguana/Eevee/{RR/Faust} are almost 100% NOT the scum team. Now, what if Space's partners are {RR/Faust}? Space switches to Swan, putting Swan at 4 (with e) to Space's 5. This is possible, and would've required either Eevee or I to switch over to Swan (something I was probably more inclined to do than Eevee) in order to get the same 5:5 split. While this may not be super likely, it was probably moreso than Space continuing to try and push my lynch - and I don't see why Space wouldn't have at the very least have explored this possability.

The interesting side effect of all of this is that Datswan should be considering Eevee or myself to be scum extremely unlikely at this point - because if either of us were scum with Space then between us and Space, and e, we could've forced a 5:5 split (Tep/O/Qvist/X/Swan on Space vs Faust/RR/Space/e/X on Swan) - and it would've come down to who gave first: Teproc or e (or neither and we go no-lynch, also a win for scum here).

What this all boils down to then, is that from an end of day standpoint:

Datswan is super scummy - not just for not voting Space, but also for Space's refusal to pursue him as a viable alternative lynch when faust/RR were parked there, and e made it extremely clear that Swan was his preferred lynch choice.

On the flip side, if Swan IS Town, I find it -extremely- unlikely that Eevee is scum.

I think I'll move Swan up and reread him following my conclusion of faust.

Other than the parts that call me skum, I actually think this is relevant information.
I AGREE that;
1) Me not hammering Space looks bad. I don't agree it is skummy. I had a read, the read is that Space was Town. If I was right and I hammered then we lose. E! expressed that he would do it if needed. If he didn't do it, then tomorrow we lynch Skum!E! (weird to type out), and after the no lynch he forced we are just back in the same spot. If he does do it, then it was his call and we take it from there, but given the first option I did not want to act quickly.
2) O and Teproc are Masons. Or at least I am not questioning it at this point.
3) That Space's actions make me look super skummy. However, Space was there at the end. If I were skum (or "important skum" as you put it) why would an experienced player such as Space take this line?


I DO NOT agree with;
1) Your logic behind the Space switch to me because if he does it there is no downside for a Skum Team. At the same point in time that E! switched to me putting 3 on me, Galz has 2 (me and Space) on him. If 2/3 (in your logic here) of Eevee, Faust, and RR are skum for this scenario, they could of taken either 2 off of me onto you, or 1 off of me and one off of Space onto you and put you at 4. This would have the situation read Galz (4), Space (4 or 5), Swan (1 or 2). If you are Town!Galz and I am Skum!Swan (knowing of course now that it was Skum!Space), wouldn't this clearly an equal or superior play for Skum based on your logic set forward? It creates a great no lynch scenario if Eevee is skum (i.e. 4 on Space instead of 5), if you are Town it puts an potentially equal amount of votes on you to Space, and it would also pull 1-2 votes off of Skum!Swan. Just saying, there are multiple theories. Just because that is the one you chose to focus on doesn't make it the most likely.
2) The ideal that Town!Swan = Town!Eevee because it dictated by the fact that we are assuredly dealing with a Town!Galz.
3) That I should be looking at you AND Eevee as Town. I submit that the actions would make one assume both of you are not Skum, but one of you easily still could be.



MORE IMPORTANTLY:
Now I need to re read to make sure everything parses... but the last few posts have made me realize that (and I get how skummy this freeking sounds, but it is absolutely true) - Every Townie alive has two primary objectives at this point in time:
1) Lynch Skum
2) Don't get lynched
(If we fail both of these tasks, then we are reliant upon accidently finding the poisoned ally and go to "must find the poisoner" situation tomorrow.)

I am not sold on the idea that this is not Skum!Galz. I am simply acknowledging that I do not believe I can currently succeed at both of the above points if I am tunneling you. Thought about this yesterday, and I didn't want to type it out because there was just no point. It makes me look skummy for backing off, it takes pressure of of you (who I still think could be Skum). So I have an idea:

Between you and I, there is one fact that must be true based on our 100% knowledge - There absolutely cannot be a Skum Team reamaining of Galz!Swan.
Since the majority of our reads seem to lead us to the conclusion against each other, either one of us is Skum, Skum is setting us up, or we are missing something.

To quote the words of our fallen E!, "I will team with skum to lynch skum".

If I remove the possibility that you, I, Teproc, or O are lynched today (only way to do it that makes sense in this context - whole idea is for me to not consider you, I cannot consider myself because if I die we lose and then it is irrelevant, and Teproc and O because Mason claim yadda yadda)... My lynch pool is narrowed at it's widest to RR, Faust, and Eevee. Now I am not saying that 2 among them must be skum, because I am still acting under the mentality that you could be the second (and if you wanna play skum hunter with me you should do the same as it relates to me). However, with these 3 remaining, these are the possibilities I am left with to consider:

Lynch Town!RR - If so, it would suggest Eevee is also Town (could be lying about RR Track I guess, but why would he? could of just of easily claimed Teproc or O in that situation trying to "verify" they were masons. This of course would of left RR on the table as a potential lynch candidate). Because of this, I would be left with you or Faust and to determine where I would go I would need to decide whether it is more likely RR was attempting to bus Faust or get him killed as Town - either making him the candidate for Skum or between you and Eevee.

Lynch Skum!RR - If so, I imagine he will flip Poisoner. It would leave the most likely remaining skum in my mind to be Eevee (no RR in any tracks, and then randomly claimed to think he was the skummiest last night. Assuming that the Poisoner is not allowed to let another skum mate poison for them - I believe that to be true - based on the whole "probably poisoner if skum" logic I guess I can see why, but still.. Eevee would be at the top. Then you simply by PoE because he has been hardcoring me and Faust all game.

Lynch Town!Faust - If so, it would mean that poison was blocked or Faust was poisoned. Also, based on claims, it would have me looking at you as the last remaining Skum.

Lynch Skum!Faust - If so, I imagine he will flip not the Poisoner based on the same logic everyone has mentioned. At this point I would kind of rule you out I guess? Leaving me to read back on Faust!Eevee and Faust!RR.

Lynch Town!Eevee - If so, it would mean poison was blocked or Eevee was poisoned. It would also mean RR is not Poisoner (which to me makes him Town). This leaves you and Faust and TBH I have to go back and re read on this situation more to decide where I would go there.

Lynch Skum!Eevee - If so, Eevee will either flip Tracker or Poisoner. If they flip Poisoner, based on bid claims and the likelihood of setting up that admittedly amazing play, I would be looking at you as the last remaining Skum. If they flip Tracker, I would be looking at RR as last remaining Skum based on same logic under the "Skum!RR" idea.


After doing this exercise I realized something interesting - if I reverse engineer you into the situation, I actually think I would prefer to lynch RR today instead of you. He makes just as much sense and also would reveal potentially far more information. Also, I currently believe he is the most likely place to find the Poisoner.

Not saying it removes you from the table. Just assuming the following:

Lynch Town!Galz - Doesn't tell us much I guess. You were voting Space to be true - so I guess since I think there was at least one bus on Space, that would mean Eevee next. You have been fighting me, but I can't argue that there are skummy ties I have unfortunately not prevented. You could be pro-playing with Faust, but you also could not be. And you have limited interactions with RR.

Lynch Skum!Galz - Tells us less. I think there is still a chance that you could be the Poisoner, but honestly upon doing this, I think it is more likely to be RR. Assuming you come up Goon... I assume there must of been at least one bus on Space so there is that, but it doesn't mean that there were not 2. You could be pro-playing with Faust, but I don't think he is poisoner so probably not.. so I guess Faust would be next. And you have limited interactions with RR so IDK.

Also, FWIW:

Lynch Town!Swan - Pretty much puts you on the block. All of this puts us back at square one as above.

Lynch Goon!Swan - Poisoner kind of has to be RR still. You don't make sense. Faust has never made sense. If I am Goon then Eevee is Tracker and therefore town. Again, square one.

Lynch Poisoner!Swan - So in the fairness of the exercise I will be honest. Obviously, this has an upside. You get essentially absolved, RR's strategy would not make sense if I am the Poisoner and he is a Goon. If I am Poisoner then Eevee must be Tracker and is therefore likely Town. Faust is the remaining target making the clear team Swan!Faust. This is of course dictated on the concept of me being exactly the Poisoner.

At the end of this I want to say something like, "if people still want to, I am down to still lynch Galz", but honestly, I do not think that is true right now.
For now at least, Vote: RR is where I want to be.

[Roadrunner7671]

Just because I'm a little confused, how could Eevee and me have different alignments? Can the scum poisoner also do the NK?

[Galzria]

Just because I'm a little confused, how could Eevee and me have different alignments? Can the scum poisoner also do the NK?

Yes

[Galzria]

Others
At night, one of the Others may perform the factional kill. You may also perform other actions if you received PRs from the draft.


Smoke Monster

You are the Smoke Monster! Your goal is to kill Jacob’s precious Candidates so that you are finally free to leave the island and extinguish the light… everywhere.

You win when all six Candidates have been eliminated and you are still alive. This is a difficult task, so you may take advantage of a number of special powers, or “loopholes.”

At night, you may perform the factional kill.

You are also an Even-Night Commuter and an Odd-Night Candidate Checker. On even nights, you may choose to commute. If you commute, you can take no other actions and all actions taken against you will fail.

On odd nights, you may choose another player to check and see if this player is a candidate. This is a unique action--it’s called a “check” rather than an investigation--and cannot fail or be mis-directed in any way, by any other power or status (including Investigation Immunity and Godfather).

Commuting and checking always succeed: they happen outside normal power resolution.

You may kill and check in the same night. You may not commute and kill in the same night.

You may also gain a PR from the draft.

It is possible for you to be one of the Candidates. If you are a Candidate, you do not have to kill yourself--you only have to eliminate the five other Candidates. You will have access to the Candidate QT, and can become the Leader of the Candidates. (Note: This will obsolete your Odd-Night Candidate Check power, since you will already know all the Candidates.)

For balance purposes, if you are a Candidate, and you eliminate the five other Candidates for the win, you must survive one additional game phase (day or night) after the last Candidate’s death.

This same condition applies if you choose the Recruit Mother PR and Mother is chosen as one of the Candidates. (You do not need to kill Mother, but you do need to survive an additional game phase after the other five are eliminated. See the Mother Role PM for additional info.)


Candidates (Any alignment)

Candidates are picked at random, independent of role or alignment, after all other phases of the draft have ended. The Serial Killer could even be a Candidate.
 
Candidates have a QT with day chat, but no night chat. During the day, they may vote amongst themselves for a Leader. Candidates cast their votes in private, in their own QTs, and may vote for themselves. The Leader—the Candidate who receives the most votes (or reaches 2 votes first in case of a tie)—may perform an investigative action that night; the Leader can investigate any player to learn whether this player is the Smoke Monster.
 
The Leader will receive the result: “Smoke Monster” if the target is the Smoke Monster, “Not Smoke Monster,” if not, or “No Result” if the action is thwarted.
 
The next day, the Candidates may select a different Leader, or the same one.

If the Smoke Monster dies, the Candidate QT locks permanently.



QTs

A note about QTs: It is illegal to quote directly from any QT into the main thread or another QT, other than a personal QT.

If a faction (other than town) has access to the Candidates QT--because one of its members is a Candidate--then the entire faction will receive access to the QT, though only the member who is a Candidate can post in it. If Others-aligned Player X is a Candidate, a link to the Candidate QT will appear in the Others QT.

Whenever a Candidate dies, a new QT for the Candidates will be sent out to all people entitled to access it. If all Others-aligned Candidates have been eliminated, then the new Candidates QT link would not be posted in the Others QT. The Others would lose access to the Candidates QT, but the surviving Candidates would not know that there were no more Others in their ranks.


Role Slots
 
The Hydra (Station One)
Jailkeeper
Godfather
 
The Arrow (Station Two)
Strongman (Others and SM only)
Gunsmith
 
The Swan (Station Three)
Masons (Town only)
Bomb
 
The Flame (Station Four)
Role Cop
1-Shot Day Vigilante
 
The Pearl (Station Five)
Watcher
Investigation Immune
 
The Orchid (Station Six)
2-Shot Redirector
Summon “Mother” (SM only)
 
The Staff (Station Seven)
Doctor
1-Shot Kill Proof
 
The Looking Glass (Station Eight)
Roleblocker
Bodyguard

The Tempest (Station Nine)
Poisoner
Ninja (Others and SM only)
 
The Lamp Post (Station Ten)
Double Shot Candidate Cop
Tracker
 
The Statue of Tawret
Protector of the Island
JOAT (1-shot Ninja, 1-shot Strongman, 1-shot Roleblocker)
 
The Bamboo Forest
Last Recruit
Day 2 Innocent Child (Town only)

The Cabin
1-Shot Disabler
Night 3 Forensic Scientist
 
The Dharma Initiative Barracks
Random
Random
Random

[Galzria]

Others
At night, one of the Others may perform the factional kill. You may also perform other actions if you received PRs from the draft.

Sorry, phone quote fail.

[Roadrunner7671]

Right on. I'm doing my reread right now, if I include the quotes from me yesterday indicating that I thought there were 2 scum, would that make me townier?

[Roadrunner7671]

Faust, do you prefer being town or scum?

[Roadrunner7671]

Time to stop slackin and start crack a lackin

Well, I was going to agree with the Poisoner claiming, but it seems I'm late to the party.

First thing I saw. Reads sort of ingenuine to me.

If iguana is scum, then there is no guarantee that he is actually the Poisoner. It could be a teammate. Though that would require very quick thinking there on parts of both scum!iguana and his partner.

Hmmmm

vote: Faust

Redirect or should also worry scum if town took it.

No clue how we all missed this claim.

Also, Datswam hopped on gkrieg then hopped off even though he definitely didn’t have to. Towny

Right now I feel like I don't have like a solid skum lead on anyone, so I am not going to cast a vote right this moment. If we still have no movement by tomorrow evening I will force out a chum2skum list and cast for the skummiest.

Still a tad scummy.

Galz joins a D1 Eevee wagon at a scummy time.

I'm going VLA for the next few days. Don't want to be on RR anymore so why not sheep him?

Vote: Datswan for spelling scum with a k.

This makes Datswan a little scummier in my mind.

Datswan's vote for me right after I voted for him is skummy and I don't like it.

Right after this post I get in a little argument with Galz and Datswan. I can’t deduce anything from it, but I think it’s worth checking out. Particularly if you’re not RR, Galz or Datswan.

RR (7): Iguana, Qvist, Swan, Galz, Faust, Arche, Eevee

That would be L-2. unvote for now. Got time. Wanna think.

Galz pulls out. I think this is scummy, because he knows I won’t get night killed so he can look towny later in my eyes when I’m still alive later. It’s the long con.

Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1

Fwiw - also agree with this. It is the reason I un voted him a few days back. It does seem like the speculation on Gkrieg is kind of based on pretty far fetched stuff at this point. Not all votes, some people have made at least some reasonable notes... but if anyone is actually voting based on exclamation marks right now... probably not the best move.

But you know, this is actually pretty right coming from the guy who said this:

Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?

1) Mainly the post content with, from what I can find, like 0 attempts at hunting.
2) I don't know why it bothers me, but he seems to care to much about this Redirector bit.

PPE

Vote: DatSwan I think.

Seems partner-y from Faust to Datswan.

I'm torn between not wanting to lynch LL because he's contributing and wanting to lynch him because he has lots of interactions.

I'm torn between wanting to lynch you because you're lurking and wanting to lynch you because you're scummy!

Doesn’t seem like scum Faust.





That's D1 for me. Overall, not a ton to look at.

[Roadrunner7671]

Prod O

Prod: Faust

Prod: Eevee

[Galzria]

VLAish this weekend

[Roadrunner7671]

VLAish this weekend

Whoops