Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Variants and Fan Cards => Topic started by: Davio on January 10, 2013, 07:30:00 am
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I'm wondering about the design space left and feel we have discussed parts of this, but not in a way I'd like to and maybe with Dark Ages out and Guilds around the corner this warrants a new topic.
My question is simple: In all of your games, have you experienced a certain "void" in the available cards? What kind of card could fill this void? Or, if you haven't, what's left that hasn't been done before?
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Cards that do something with cards in play during the action phase, like top-deck, trash etc.
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Cards that do something with cards in play during the action phase, like top-deck, trash etc.
Somehow Urchin?
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Cards that do something with cards in play during the action phase, like top-deck, trash etc.
Somehow Urchin?
That's not a "card that does something with cards in play" but, like Hermit, a "card that, while in play, may be affected by another event".
I understand that the ability to affect any card in play opens a can of worms. But there is a void alright.
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A reaction that can save another card from being trashed.
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Player traits, or cards whose effects last as long as a player desires.
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Player traits, or cards whose effects last as long as a player desires.
That's a cool idea, it could have a long-lasting effect as a permanent and maybe a bonus a la Mining Village to allow for timely removal?
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Cards that do something with cards in play during the action phase, like top-deck, trash etc.
Somehow Urchin?
That's not a "card that does something with cards in play" but, like Hermit, a "card that, while in play, may be affected by another event".
I understand that the ability to affect any card in play opens a can of worms. But there is a void alright.
Yeah, Urchin is a "card that, while in play, may be affected by another event". It gets trashed even though it's already played. Or maybe I understood you wrong. Yes it can't target cards in play, but it gets targetted after being played.
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A card which increases prices.
A card which cares about the top of the discard pile.
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A card which increases prices.
A card which cares about the top of the discard pile.
I'd like to see a card which increases prices, but how do you make it exciting?
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A card which increases prices.
A card which cares about the top of the discard pile.
I'd like to see a card which increases prices, but how do you make it exciting?
Well, you give it a nice on-play effect, like gain a Duchy, and you have the choice to discard it during any of your Action Phase.
I wonder if such a card makes Garden strategies less attractive because you cannot just collect cards left and right, or Provinces less attainable.
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Well I don't think I'd want the increased price to persist through your opponent's turn. To me, it's fundamentally important that Copper costs $0, since it means that no matter is done, at least you can buy a Copper. Then even under relentless militia attacks, three Copper buys Silver, three Silver buys Gold, and 1xSilver + 2xGold buys Province (three Gold buys Platinum, and 2xGold + Plat buys a Colony). If you up the price of Copper for opponents, then you open the door to pinning.
Sure, the basic treasure piles can run out, but that's just because it's a physical game. The intent is clearly that the piles won't empty, except under rather extreme conditions.
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Well I don't think I'd want the increased price to persist through your opponent's turn.
Well, I certainly wouldn't want the markup to persist only through my turn! (Barring edge cases involving Bishop/Apprentice)
To me, it's fundamentally important that Copper costs $0, since it means that no matter is done, at least you can buy a Copper. Then even under relentless militia attacks, three Copper buys Silver, three Silver buys Gold, and 1xSilver + 2xGold buys Province (three Gold buys Platinum, and 2xGold + Plat buys a Colony). If you up the price of Copper for opponents, then you open the door to pinning.
Certainly. I didn't say I'd want this void to be filled. But there are options to put a limit to the pin, like M:tG's cumulative upkeep.
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Well I don't think I'd want the increased price to persist through your opponent's turn.
Well, I certainly wouldn't want the markup to persist only through my turn! (Barring edge cases involving Bishop/Apprentice)
This is why the card would need some other benefit. Possibly it would raise prices, and then also perform trash for benefit or performing some card gaining based on cost. Or maybe the card would give you a chunk of cash, like +$4, so it's like terminal gold usually, or terminal silver if you use extra buy, or a terminal copper if you use a third buy. Then it could be nice even in games with no TfB if there is also no plus buy, but would be available for cute tricks, like king's court this card and then graverob a madman out of the trash.
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Cards that stay out the entire game (Permanents) yes I know this similar to durations, but w/e
Cards that aren't gained directly to your deck (ie. When you buy this card, set it aside for 3 turns)
Cards that are gained directly to your opponents deck (ie. Hot Copper $2 produces $1, when you would gain this, your opponent to your left gains it instead)
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Maybe we'll have cards that are removed from the game entirely.
I mean, now they can be revived from the trash.
Or maybe we'll get Dominion: Legacy. :)
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Optional prices? A card which may be purchased for either $4 or P.
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Optional prices? A card which may be purchased for either $4 or P.
I doubt we'll ever see X in purchasing.
E.g.: You may pay X for this card. +1 VP Token for X divided by 2, rounded up.
So if you buy it for 8 you get 4 VP tokens.
Wouldn't work with TfB cards obviously or set a fixed minimal price or make it $0.
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Optional prices? A card which may be purchased for either $4 or P.
I doubt we'll ever see X in purchasing.
E.g.: You may pay X for this card. +1 VP Token for X divided by 2, rounded up.
So if you buy it for 8 you get 4 VP tokens.
Wouldn't work with TfB cards obviously or set a fixed minimal price or make it $0.
Right, too many cards refer to cost. One work around could be a card which costs $6, but whose cost is reduced by $2 for each Potion you have in play (but not less than $0). Something like that.
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Peddler was the first example for a discount, so that is not exactly new. Davio was referring to voluntary overbuy for a benefit. I don't see how this cannot happen, as there is still a value assigned to a card.
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Peddler was the first example for a discount, so that is not exactly new. Davio was referring to voluntary overbuy for a benefit. I don't see how this cannot happen, as there is still a value assigned to a card.
Yeah, what I meant was:
Assume there's a VP card costing $3, giving 1 regular VP.
It has an on-buy effect specifying: When you buy this, you may pay $4 more for it. If you do, gain 2 {VP}.
Something like that anyway. That way it still works with TfB cards.
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I wouldn't say there's a void, per se. There are existing game mechanics that could be explored further and I'm sure there are also workable new mechanics as well. I thought it'd be nice if there were more one-shots, so I made a set of cards based on that theme. I never expected to create another set of cards after that, but then I thought of a cool way to explore the "powerful cards with a penalty" space, and I'm working on cards for that.
The nice thing is that if you think of a good, novel mechanic, it's much easier to come up with card ideas. It gives you direction and it's less likely that your cards will be too similar to existing cards.
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Cards that stay out the entire game (Permanents) yes I know this similar to durations, but w/e
Similarly: cards that stay out indefinitely, but after being played do nothing until you voluntarily take them out of play, at which point they have a second effect. (Could make for a sort of improved Walled Village, or a way to sock away coin and/or buys in "savings"...)
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With cards that can save trashed cards, I've thought of something. Have the reaction part say "when you trash a card, you may reveal this. If you do, set that card aside, and put it in your discard pile at the end of the current player's turn." The only problem is, what happens with thief...
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Action - Attack
while this is in play, when you play another attack, each opponent gains a copper.
Entwine
Choose one: X or Y
Discard a card: get the other option too!
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With cards that can save trashed cards, I've thought of something. Have the reaction part say "when you trash a card, you may reveal this. If you do, set that card aside, and put it in your discard pile at the end of the current player's turn." The only problem is, what happens with thief...
Not a new idea, and not the only problem. :P
One mechanical problem -- what happens if multiple people try to reveal the reaction? Who gets the trashed card then?
Balance problems -- well, it can get really, really swingy with trashing attacks, particularly Saboteur. There are already ways to steal Provinces (Possession + Amb/Masq; trashing attacks + Highway + Graverobber/Rogue) so maybe another way isn't so bad, but still -- it's something to think about.
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With cards that can save trashed cards, I've thought of something. Have the reaction part say "when you trash a card, you may reveal this. If you do, set that card aside, and put it in your discard pile at the end of the current player's turn." The only problem is, what happens with thief...
What happens with Thief is:
1. Opponent plays Thief
2. You reveal and trash a Silver
3. You reveal your reaction
4. The Silver is set aside
5. Thief tries to gain the Silver for your opponent, but fails by losing track
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With cards that can save trashed cards, I've thought of something. Have the reaction part say "when you trash a card, you may reveal this. If you do, set that card aside, and put it in your discard pile at the end of the current player's turn." The only problem is, what happens with thief...
Not a new idea, and not the only problem. :P
One mechanical problem -- what happens if multiple people try to reveal the reaction? Who gets the trashed card then?
"When you trash a card, you may reveal this."
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With cards that can save trashed cards, I've thought of something. Have the reaction part say "when you trash a card, you may reveal this. If you do, set that card aside, and put it in your discard pile at the end of the current player's turn." The only problem is, what happens with thief...
Not a new idea, and not the only problem. :P
One mechanical problem -- what happens if multiple people try to reveal the reaction? Who gets the trashed card then?
"When you trash a card, you may reveal this."
Oh, didn't notice that!
Might be OK then?
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There still is the balancing issue, though. But it might still work, it would have to be playtested.
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There still is the balancing issue, though. But it might still work, it would have to be playtested.
Well the specific issue I brought up is no longer a problem because it won't let you steal Provinces (except in specific cases with Possession). The self trash rescuer would then have a best case of comboing with tfb, which seems acceptable to me. In theory, at least.