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[Eevee]

I don't know, Eevee. Another simply interpretation of your actions is simply "I want mail-mi lynched, but I don't want to be the one holding the rope".

I'm explicitly saying I don't think he is the best lynch for today, despite some of the weird stuff he has done. The weird stuff is just a part of his MO, no matter what.

I don't know what more I can say. It feels like you are punishing me for putting my thoughts out there. Heck, we don't even know if mail-mi is town, and now I'm to blame for secretly pushing for his mislynch (even though I really am not)?

[ashersky]

Guys, we're on page 38 now?  This is D1.  We're killing ourselves on future days with this.

We need to narrow this down.

[nkirbit]

Should we set a softdeadline, then?  That's one way to narrow it down.

Shraeye and Raerae said they were gone 7/3 through 7/somethinglater, right?  What about a soft deadline for Tuesday night?  Heck, we can probably even do tomorrow night.

[raerae]

TA, what scumhunting has mail-mi been doing?  I don't recall anything in particular that wasn't a resaying of something somebody else had already said.

Mostly the Xeiron stuff. It's unlike him to go and read someone D1 and form his own opinions, whens the last time you saw that happen? I'm also probably tilted by the fact that he made the same point about Xeiron regarding the "exactly 3 scum" that I saw, which I think was a really really good point.

Oh look, someone else called you out on it.  To quote you:

"...he does seem like he's been more active and trying to catch people...given what he's been doing with scumhunting this game..."

You think "mostly the Xeiron stuff" fits the description you gave in your read?  "Catch people" sounds like a plural to me.  What scumhunting?  I get it, he did one re-read.  WOOOOOO!  No, really, where are you coming from, TA?

No, like seriously, when he's been scum, he sheeped ALWAYS and NEVER did anything original. This is out of the norm for mail-mi to me, and to me, the norm for mail-mi is scum.

Getting caught up and this post is shady as shady gets.  You said when he's scum he sheeps and doesn't do anything original.  Then you say that he is NOT doing that now and is therefore scum.  What what???  (Also, I'm like 6 pages behind the rest of the world so if this has been answered...oh well.)

[Twistedarcher]

Hm. That's interesting, and you're bringing up a lot of interesting stuff. I still think mail-mi is town, but...could they be partners? I doubt it, given that I think mail-mi is town. But very possibly Eevee is trying to push town towards a mail-mi mislynch.

Eevee has said that he thinks it's unlikely that there's a scum among the active posters today...from among that group (myself, Nkirbit, EFHW, Eevee, Ashersky) I would most certainly lynch Eevee over anyone else.

(I kept your fix in, just cleaned it up for readability.)

What?  If Eevee is going for a mail-mi mislynch, why did he jump in when he did and defend mail-mi?  There was a decent amount of pressure at that point, and he had a hand in stopping the momentum.  I just don't get how Eevee would be trying to push a mail-mi mislynch here.

Ugh, there's been so many things happening today, I'm forgetting the timeline. I know Eevee was pointing out scummy things that mail-mi did early, then defended him by saying that actually, Xeiron was a natural target to re-read. Did Eevee defend mail-mi more than I'm recalling?

I got the impression Eevee's been finding scummy things that mail-mi, but didn't want to lynch, mostly for meta reasons. Is this a correct characterization, Eevee? That's still putting scummy things out there, though.

[nkirbit]

Raerae... pretty sure TA's conclusion and read on mail-mi is that mail-mi is town.  So there's no contradiction there. 

[Twistedarcher]

TA, what scumhunting has mail-mi been doing?  I don't recall anything in particular that wasn't a resaying of something somebody else had already said.

Mostly the Xeiron stuff. It's unlike him to go and read someone D1 and form his own opinions, whens the last time you saw that happen? I'm also probably tilted by the fact that he made the same point about Xeiron regarding the "exactly 3 scum" that I saw, which I think was a really really good point.

Oh look, someone else called you out on it.  To quote you:

"...he does seem like he's been more active and trying to catch people...given what he's been doing with scumhunting this game..."

You think "mostly the Xeiron stuff" fits the description you gave in your read?  "Catch people" sounds like a plural to me.  What scumhunting?  I get it, he did one re-read.  WOOOOOO!  No, really, where are you coming from, TA?

No, like seriously, when he's been scum, he sheeped ALWAYS and NEVER did anything original. This is out of the norm for mail-mi to me, and to me, the norm for mail-mi is scum.

Getting caught up and this post is shady as shady gets.  You said when he's scum he sheeps and doesn't do anything original.  Then you say that he is NOT doing that now and is therefore scum.  What what???  (Also, I'm like 6 pages behind the rest of the world so if this has been answered...oh well.)

No, you misunderstand. Most of the times I've played with mail-mi, he's been scum. Therefore, to me, normal mail-mi is scum. This game, and his re-read on Xeiron, was different. Since he's been scum in most of my experiences with him, different = towny. I have a town read on mail-mi.

[Twistedarcher]

I still think you all should consider spiritbears. I still have yet to hear a good defense from spiritbears, or from anyone else for that matter. Every time I bring it up no one answers

[ashersky]

I still think you all should consider spiritbears. I still have yet to hear a good defense from spiritbears, or from anyone else for that matter. Every time I bring it up no one answers

I've got nothing.  If it gets down to it, and he's on the chopping block, I won't stop it.

[ashersky]

Should we set a softdeadline, then?  That's one way to narrow it down.

Shraeye and Raerae said they were gone 7/3 through 7/somethinglater, right?  What about a soft deadline for Tuesday night?  Heck, we can probably even do tomorrow night.

Tomorrow night is good for me, given the time difference that's 7/2 for me.  I'll be mostly VLA from 7/3 to 7/7 for the holiday; taking the fam on a trip.

[nkirbit]

Okay.

Soft Deadline 7/1 at 9pm forum time?

Does anyone have an objections to that?

[raerae]

You know the problem with an X lynch?  Zero info gained from his flip, either way.  I mean, that's a good reason to lurk if you are scum, but still.

The only real interaction we have is mail-mi's re-read.  And if X is scum, mail-mi got lucky or is bussing.

Obviously there would still be information. Who voted, who didn't?

The "If he was scum, he'd be more excited and post more" argument kind of does give me some pause about xeiron though. Changed my mind, don't want him lynched I don't think..

I SOOOOOOOOOOOOO disagree with this.  I was terrified out of my face when I subbed as scum in Bankers and had very little interest in posting because I was afraid of saying something scummy.  Yes, most of you people are normal and excited to play scum but it's totally plausible to be on the other side of that boat and not want to post because of it.

[ashersky]

Okay.

Soft Deadline 7/1 at 9pm forum time?

Does anyone have an objections to that?

I like it.

[raerae]

I'm with Eevee at this point with little certainty on who to lynch.  I haven't found anyone's cases compelling.  My opinion of Shraeye hasn't changed, but it feels like old news now, with no new events to bolster it with, except that he hasn't been around.  His post count was 40, 2 lower than Ahoppy.

raerae has been very much under the radar, too, I'd say.  Are they off somewhere lurking together? 

Past due time for Theorel to come back.

ARE YOU F-ING KIDDING ME???   What?  I'm gone for six hours and suddenly that's classified as lurking?  What world do you live in??

[shraeye]

Yeah, both raerae and shraeye are VLA.

I thought that didn't start until Thursday.  They're not listed.

I'm with Eevee at this point with little certainty on who to lynch.  I haven't found anyone's cases compelling.  My opinion of Shraeye hasn't changed, but it feels like old news now, with no new events to bolster it with, except that he hasn't been around.  His post count was 40, 2 lower than Ahoppy.

raerae has been very much under the radar, too, I'd say.  Are they off somewhere lurking together? 

Past due time for Theorel to come back.

ARE YOU F-ING KIDDING ME???   What?  I'm gone for six hours and suddenly that's classified as lurking?  What world do you live in??

Wow, really wow.  We have been at a going away party most of the day.  We slacked off during preparations to throw in many posts this morning, but when 6 pages show up in 8 hours or so...suddenly it's time to wonder if we're V/LA??

[raerae]

Assuming there aren't 18 new pages again, I would be fine with the proposed deadline.  Would lynch TA, X, or chairs.  Seeing as how that chairs lynch just ain't gonna happen, I'm going with X for not voting for a null-read over a scumread.  I'm going to bed now.  Then I'm going to work.  Then I'm going to pack.  So, let me just announce to the entire thread that I will be v/la for 18 to 20 hours.  I will update you on bathroom breaks as needed.

Vote: Xeiron

[Twistedarcher]

I'm with Eevee at this point with little certainty on who to lynch.  I haven't found anyone's cases compelling.  My opinion of Shraeye hasn't changed, but it feels like old news now, with no new events to bolster it with, except that he hasn't been around.  His post count was 40, 2 lower than Ahoppy.

raerae has been very much under the radar, too, I'd say.  Are they off somewhere lurking together? 

Past due time for Theorel to come back.

ARE YOU F-ING KIDDING ME???   What?  I'm gone for six hours and suddenly that's classified as lurking?  What world do you live in??

In the world where we post 10 pages in 1 day!

I lol'd at your guys reactions. Don't worry, I'm not holding it against you (or against anyone else), and I hope no one else will as well. Good luck with the re-read!

[nkirbit]

Yeah, both raerae and shraeye are VLA.

I thought that didn't start until Thursday.  They're not listed.

I'm with Eevee at this point with little certainty on who to lynch.  I haven't found anyone's cases compelling.  My opinion of Shraeye hasn't changed, but it feels like old news now, with no new events to bolster it with, except that he hasn't been around.  His post count was 40, 2 lower than Ahoppy.

raerae has been very much under the radar, too, I'd say.  Are they off somewhere lurking together? 

Past due time for Theorel to come back.

ARE YOU F-ING KIDDING ME???   What?  I'm gone for six hours and suddenly that's classified as lurking?  What world do you live in??

Wow, really wow.  We have been at a going away party most of the day.  We slacked off during preparations to throw in many posts this morning, but when 6 pages show up in 8 hours or so...suddenly it's time to wonder if we're V/LA??

 

Sorry.  I expressed similar concerns.  I think it's partly due to the fact that we went through 10 pages today... I think "game time" moving so fast made some of us forget that it actually hadn't been that long in real time.  Out of sight, out of mind, I guess.  But no offense meant!

[shraeye]

Regarding ahsersky's EFHW crusade: EFHW is foreground, these will be the people who are much easier to analyze day2, and frankly less likely to be scum.  I thought you agreed with that.

I could be wrong, sure.  But I could be right.  Good enough chance of that to think you are our best chance of lynching scum on D1.

I don't see myself voting for anybody who's been in the foreground during day1.  I have just been burned too much by going after scummy-looking loud people, which just lets scum skate by.  I think this is really true of f.DS meta-styles recently, and the reason why town has lost so many.  Scum walk into day 1 being very careful not to say anything too "out there" and wait for town to blow up on itself, which towns inevitably do.  The players that I consider "foreground players" would be raerae, EFHW, spirit, Twisted, ashersky, myself.  I think nkirbit/Eevee have rode a line, where they pop out at certain moments looking obvious, and seem to be hidden in my mind at others; I don't put them on the no-lynch list.  I think that background players so far are Xeiron, AHoppy, chairs, theorel, mail-mi.

Agree with shraeye here that we should be looking to lynch an acti-lurker.

[Twistedarcher]

I still think you all should consider spiritbears. I still have yet to hear a good defense from spiritbears, or from anyone else for that matter. Every time I bring it up no one answers

I've got nothing.  If it gets down to it, and he's on the chopping block, I won't stop it.

Seems like we've got several people in this position, but no one other than me (and maybe Nkirbit and Ahoppy) willing to push the wagon.

Would it help people consider it if I posted the case again? I'll look elsewhere (probably at Xeiron) if necessary, but I would really like to get the SB wagon going, I really do think he's by far the likeliest to turn up scum.

[Twistedarcher]

Soft deadline works for me

[shraeye]

Anyways, obviously there will be similarities, I did try to emulate my town self in that game.. and after all we are the same person still!

Eevee, who is the 'we' you are talking about here?

[ashersky]

Regarding ahsersky's EFHW crusade: EFHW is foreground, these will be the people who are much easier to analyze day2, and frankly less likely to be scum.  I thought you agreed with that.

I could be wrong, sure.  But I could be right.  Good enough chance of that to think you are our best chance of lynching scum on D1.

I don't see myself voting for anybody who's been in the foreground during day1.  I have just been burned too much by going after scummy-looking loud people, which just lets scum skate by.  I think this is really true of f.DS meta-styles recently, and the reason why town has lost so many.  Scum walk into day 1 being very careful not to say anything too "out there" and wait for town to blow up on itself, which towns inevitably do.  The players that I consider "foreground players" would be raerae, EFHW, spirit, Twisted, ashersky, myself.  I think nkirbit/Eevee have rode a line, where they pop out at certain moments looking obvious, and seem to be hidden in my mind at others; I don't put them on the no-lynch list.  I think that background players so far are Xeiron, AHoppy, chairs, theorel, mail-mi.

Agree with shraeye here that we should be looking to lynch an acti-lurker.

I did, until EFHW slipped.  I'll always lynch obvscum over anyone else.

[shraeye]

Multiple snippets of my thoughts:

Then vote him! He still hasn't provided adequate answers to my questions, or any answers at all. I know the personal stuff is getting in the way (and sorry SB, I really don't mean this personally at all), but I still do like my case. I can repost it if it makes it so people don't have to dig through the thread to find it.

You are asking us to vote a neutral read over our scum reads.  That doesn't sound odd to you?

This could possibly be a deflection, and I think it does show a possible connection between mail-mi/Twisted.

What are your thoughts on the two words I bolded there?  For reference, they are "I agree."  That usually indicates agreement.

I was totally going to say this, but then I saw that you beat my snarky butt to it.

It's weird that he chose Xeiron, who's one of the easier mislynches.. but if you don't have a history of building cases and you're looking to get into it, choosing the guy with ten posts is a pretty good way to start, right?  So his choice is troubling on one hand, because it's Xeiron, and perfectly reasonable on the other hand, because it's Xeiron.  He could have chosen Xeiron because he was an easy mislynch target, but he also could have chosen Xeiron because he's an easy re-read because there's just not much.  I don't see a reason to be troubled with his choice of Xeiron.

The more interesting question is whether or not I have an issue with him asking us to choose who to do a re-read on.  It is odd, and is something that's attributable to scum, but on the other hand, it's a little too obvious.  I keep wanting to say things like "Wouldn't scum be more careful than that?" because that's such an obviously scummy thing, and I'm worried that I'm overthinking it.  But I do think that scum!mail-mi would be more careful.

The middle two paragraphs of a big post from nkirbit are just a pile of unnecessary hedgy stuff.  Like, I have no idea what his conclusion from all this could possibly be.  Just trying to point out the multiple things that we could be thinking about?

[shraeye]

-- He brings up the possibility that scum can steal items.  This could be read either way, but in general I don't think scum would want to alert town to possible dangers, especially since scum could get a stealing power from items even if they don't have one now.

See bolded sentence for possible scumslip, or yet another instance of town claiming information on accident.  How could you know scum can gain the ability to steal something from items?  Scum might know this from their own info.  Or you yourself know of such an item, as town.  But really, this is bad.  Like, lynching bad.

I think you must be misunderstanding me.  My reasoning went like this:

1.  If scum has a stealing power and TA is scum, he would not remind town of the possibility.
2.  If scum doesn't have stealing power, TA could still be scum and bring up stealing to create confusion and seem towny.
3.  BUT in this game, even if scum doesn't have stealing power now, they could get it in the future and therefore #1 still applies, and this is evidence of TA's towniness.

The possibility of a scumslip lies in the possibility of you saying "The power's out there, and scum COULD get it", rather than it coming across as "There COULD be a power out there that lets scum do this". Ash is interpreting as the first I presume. I don't agree that this is necessarily the case.

I didn't say anything about the power existing.  And if mentioning stealing reveals that it exists as a power (which it doesn't), then you'd have to find TA scummy for that for being the first to say it.

You said "especially since scum could get a stealing power..."  That's exactly what you said.  Scum "could" get a "stealing power" is a conditional, and the condition to me seems like they could get one [later] even if they don't have one [now].

How do you know they could get one?  That's my question.

This doesn't look like a scumslip to me.  Why did I end up reading at least a page worth of posts about semantics?  It looks pretty apparent that EFHW is talking about the possibility of something happening, and it looks like speculation, not knowledge.