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[yuma]

Mcmc detaches himself from "the cases" made on Cuzz, but instead says that he finds him scummy because of his reaction. Announces intent to hammer, then 2 posts to raerae and then goes to bed...

This is very frustrating, I did not announce intent post twice and go to bed. I announced intent, came back a few hours later expecting to find at most one page of new things, an answer to the question that had still been out there and I would hammer. I instead came back to 6 pages and a mini wagon on a second player, i believe cuzz was not even a L-1 anymore(will check this when im not on movile)So I decided wow maybe lynching cuzz isn't the right idea anymore, I couldn't put my vote down untill I read the 6 new pages which I was not planning on nor wanted to do 7 hours before waking up for class, so I went to bed. Again expecting to wake up to a few more posts, I would read everything and post my thoughts which would have included a vote for cuzz. Instead I once agai woke up to a surprise, thread was locked and cuzz had been hammered.
In summary please stop saying I posted and went to bed as though I didn't care about the cuzz lynch, the game exploded in the few hours I was gone, this is not a blitz game and we were not at deadline.

sorry, I didn't make it clear, but it should have been as this wasn't one of my points for voting for you. I am not suggesting that your willingness to hammer and then not hammering was scummy. I disagree with munch and lio on this point. If I had I would have included it as one of my subpoints and talked about it more, the quote from above was just me going through a reread and putting down what I saw.  However, I do not think that your behavior makes you more town either. To me, your willingness to hammer is a bit scummy (only because Cuzz ended up being town). But the fact that you did not, potentially because of real life obligations, neither makes you scummy nor does it make you town.

The case I have on you stands alone from that point.

[yuma]

I can't believe how quickly this deadline is coming up. I see some merit on each of the wagons though I really wish others were interested in lynching Munch. I will review and get in some more content soon...ish.

is there any particular reason we should be focusing on TheMunch that you would like to point out for us. If you really wish for something to happen, perhaps you could do something to make it happen? I don't know. Themunch is somewhere in the middle of the pack for me, but if you put something together I would certainly be willing to look at it. But again, I am leaning more toward mcmc or glooble than anyone else. Although I also think lio could take an extra look as well.

[Robz888]

I support taking an extra look at lio. He's said some sharp things, but he's still on the lower side of posting and I don't like his vote for Mcmc, in light of his explanation. I know some other people expressed scumreads on him.

[yuma]

1. I have explained this ad nauseum, I found the way Jimm pushed the case on eevee and made it out to be bigger than it was scummy. This should answer 3. As well seeing as this was the beginning of the game and I continued to find Jimm scummy for most of D1, up to the point I mention I felt I was tunneling him. I was unaware tunneling meant voting for a long time...
2. I don't see how this is a problem at the time I simply had a null read, I guess a crappy way of explaining, I didn't find him scummy but I didn't find him town either, I had no case to make on him but would have been open to hearing one.
4. I have posted less content, along with almost every other player, not only is this game 3 times as large as the two blitz games I played in, this is the first D2 I have ever played as town. RMM (D2 has just started)
5.  unvote I agree I voted him because he read scummy to me, many people disagreed and I will unvote for that. Though I am wary of listening to my elders, it along with being to rash lost me ZMX
6. What would you like me to say about him, I agree with much of what has been said about him, I agree with what has been said.

Thanks for your responses. I know you have responded to point 1 before, but I still continue to find it scummy. So don't think that I am ignoring your responses. I read them, but they haven't been enough to dispel my suspicion. In looking back and 3 I see that you were very suspicious of Jimmm throughout Day1 and that this behavior could be construed as "tunneling."

I would disagree that every other player has posted less content. Well I mean in substance yes, because there are less posts because this day has been shorter, but I mean more in comparrisson to total posts. This is especially striking because I believe that this day offers more opportunity for talking about subject matter that is actually important and substantial whereas day1 lacked much of that.

Point 5... wasn't so much about you voting for ash--I do continue to disagree that he is scummy, so I am glad to see you unvote--but it was more that you had changed the way you approached voting... Like I said, before you had tried to gauge the opinion of "the elders" before pressing or voting, but in this situation you jumped the gun a bit. It isn't damning, but was suspicious to me.

Point 6... There isn't much you can say about Galz, because of all of the things I list this is the hardest to interpret because it requires a meta-analysis of galz and meta-analysis of a potential scum partnership between the two of you. I think it is possible, if not the most plausible out of the whole group.

[ashersky]

We're at a day and half left of D2.  Two viable wagons at this point.  Is it time for us to take stock of who is willing to lynch either or both or neither?

I think just about everyone has mentioned a scum read on at least one of the two, and provided reasons for both.  There are have been some good defense posts on both, as well.

My worry is, we get one up to L-1, they claim, we drop back and get the other to L-1, they claim, and now we've outed two players, real or fake, and we're stuck at deadline with not wanting to lynch either one.

[Robz888]

That's a fine idea, Ash.

Want to lynch: Shraeye
Would lynch: Munch
Might lynch: Liopoil, (edit: Eevee)
Neutral: Yuma
Slightly against lynching: Mcmc, Jimm
Very against lynching: Glooble, theorel, ashersky, (edit: Dsell)

Who am I missing? Had to go check, okay, Dsell and Eevee (!?). Eevee is being weird here, guys. I get what he said, but lurking Eevee is just like no Eevee I've ever seen, and I've rarely seen scum Eevee.

Uh, I guess I have to add Eevee to the might lynch category. With regard to Dsell, you guys know the drill already.

[TheMunch]

Would lynch:  Ashersky, Mcmc
Wouldn't Lynch:  Shraeye, Liopoil, Yuma

[ashersky]

Would lynch: Eevee, shraeye, mcmcsalot
Might lynch: Glooble, liopoil
Really in this game?:  Jimmmmm, Dsell
Rather not lynch: theorel, TheMunch
Would NOT lynch: ashersky, Robz, yuma

[liopoil]

I'm going to do a slightly different version of the lynching thing. I'm going to do it for who I might vote for, not lynch.

Voting: mcmc
wouldn't vote: munch, dsell, eevee, glooble
would vote for if I saw a good reason: everyone else.

[Robz888]

I'm going to do a slightly different version of the lynching thing. I'm going to do it for who I might vote for, not lynch.

Voting: mcmc
wouldn't vote: munch, dsell, eevee, glooble
would vote for if I saw a good reason: everyone else.

Why wouldn't you vote for Eevee or Munch?

[liopoil]

well, the fact that eevee doesn't see the need to act towny is itself towny. He could just be saying that I suppose... doubt it though. I don't actually think he would lurk as much as mafia in this case. Munch has said lots of stuff I agree with, among other things.

[Robz888]

well, the fact that eevee doesn't see the need to act towny is itself towny. He could just be saying that I suppose... doubt it though. I don't actually think he would lurk as much as mafia in this case. Munch has said lots of stuff I agree with, among other things.

But Eevee has like never lurked before in any game I've ever played with him (we are talking 20 games here), and he has almost always been town.

This seems like a flimsy thing on which to acquit someone.

[liopoil]

hmmm, I didn't know that. reconsidering.

[mcmcsalot]

Would lynch: liopoil, munch
Might lynch: glooble, shraeye, eevee
neutral: Jimm, Dsell
wouldn't lynch: Theorel, Robz, yuma

liopoil's recent jumping on yuma's case on me for not even the reason yuma finds me scummy is what has put him and the top of my list. As well as his recent would/would not lynch. We know your voting me, of course you will vote for someone you see a good case on, all you have given us is 4 town reads

[liopoil]

well yes, it wasn't intended to be a terribly informative post. and I wasn't jumpig on Yuma's case. I was jumping on munch's case.

[Jimmmmm]

At this stage my top two would-lynches would be shraeye and mcmc. I'd probably lean towards shraeye, but my vote is on mcmc for the moment to see what comes of that. For the record, I don't think there's terribly much to the hammer thing

Need to go back and read lio and develop an opinion on him. Also Munch.

[yuma]

Well I for one am a little hesitant to use the "who would you be willing to lynch method (WWYBTLM for short)" as it often results in finding the most common ground, which leaves everyone unhappy and I think trends toward lynching town--at least it did in MVIII where I learned to be wary of it. But I do think we need to come to a consensus before deadline because no-lynch is bad (obviously)... so I will participate but warily.

So:

Would lynch: mcmc, glooble and probably lio (need a full reread (man lots of people wanting to go back and reread lio...), but you could at least put him in the next category down)
Might lynch: shraeye, Jimmm, Robz, TheMunch, Eevee
Won't lynch: theorel, dsell, ashersky, yuma

oh... and everyone is basically in order of preference

[liopoil]

I feel so scrutinized XD... except nobody has actually said much about me yet... I think my newbie pass is coming to an end now that we are in D2

[yuma]

Lio... can I just say that regardless of what I find here, whenever I type your name it makes me think of the comic strip "Lio" which is a favorite of mine... and it makes me happy.

Day1 -

is on the Jimmm wagon pretty early primarily for Jimmm's argument on eevee, but also a bit for Jimmmm's early claim shenanigans... has a really large post analyzing everyone that gives him some towncred.... (thing that strikes me here is that there is actually analysis and give real opinions, whereas other lists of this type are often full of "null-reads" which results in scum reads on ash, Robz and Jimmmm.... votes robz after I encourage more votes.... switches to a vote on Mcmc but w/o explanation (previously in his big post he said he had a null read on mcmc)... starts to express a confusion and feeling overwhelmed about mid-day....  posting starts to dwindle a bit... agreed with both the votes and the unvotes on Glooble.... From the shraeye/cuzz interaction gets a scum read from cuzz, but town from cuzz, especially finds the deflection argument to be compelling... likes my analysis of mini-wagons... expresses willingness to vote cuzz or jimmmm... ends up voting cuzz after glooble and shraeye and 1 other?.... expresses a townread on Galz and raerae (the two that are night killed...) thinks munch and shraeye are pushing too hard for the cuzz lynch in a scummy way... and isnt' around for the shraeye quick wagon or the lynch.


day2....

has some early theory talk regarding who killed galz/raerae, etc.... and some posts that don't have a lot... votes mcmc sheeping themunch's rationalization regarding the intent to hammer... expresses a town read on everyone else?... says he would vote for everyone else except munch, dsell, eevee, glooble...

so my beef with lio:

1. he is never the perpetuator of a wagon, he always joins. This isn't necessarily scum, especially for a new player that isn't posting super often, but I thought it was worth pointing out... actually now that I think about it, he may have had original votes early day 1... yes he did on Robz... so this point isn't accurate after all.
1. That he was on the Cuzz wagon, that is for starters, but further that he found shraeye and themunch to be scummily pushing a wagon on Cuzz, but that he was still on it. He explains this in that even if they are scum, they are likely scum hunting for the other scum... But still, I tend to not trust the reads of people I find to be scummy.
2. Low post count and quality day2. Same kind of trend that I talked about with mcmc. For scum it becomes increasingly harder and harder to find anything to talk about w/o increasing scrutiny.
3. his mcmc vote sheeping themunch that I disagree with and have a hard time seeing it as compelling reason to vote someone.
4. his post listing who he would be willing to lynch was weird, as was his townread on "everyone but mcmc and galz" just a few posts earlier.

Things going for lio. His confusion/overwhelmed posts day1 read town as did his huge analysis even earlier to that. I don't think i want to switch my vote to lio.

[liopoil]

while I do see reasons to think people besides mcmc are scum, the arguments are way too weak and meta-based to counter the fact that a majority of people in this game are station. Even mcmc is more likely to be town than scum I think, but we "have" to lynch someone, and I think he is our best bet. (by "have" I mean that not lynching someone is a very bad idea.)

where do I express the thought that shraeye and themunch were scummily pushing the cuzz wagon? I do remember saying something about them pushing the wagon, but I don't think I was saying that they could be scum because they lynched town. I think I might have been commenting on how they were saying "c'mon, this day is way too long, let's just end it". This is what I thought to be a bit scummy. I was not anyone to hammer just to end it, in fact, I think I said during D1 that if someone hammers it should be because they think that cuzz is scum, not because they want to end the day. I realize that a long D1 is bad, but if it would mean a better chance of a scum lynch I think it is worth it.

[theorel]

This is about how I feel about people (refer to my 2 scumScore posts yesterday).

Want to lynch: shraeye
Willing to lynch if it's the most likely wagon: Jimmmmm, ashersky, mcmcsalot, liopoil, glooble
Willing to lynch if given a compelling reason: Munch, Eevee
Won't lynch unless something severely changes: yuma, Robz, DSell

Honestly given the discussion with shraeye since then, his scumScore has actually dropped to around maybe 35 in my mind...It's still the highest one though, and I think his flip would be informative if nothing else.
I'm thankful to yuma for his summary posts, although I would like to reread myself it at least gives me some idea of what's going on.  Mostly it just leaves me feeling more or less neutral about those players though, nothing stands out as scum-play, nothing stands out as town-play.

[Glooble]

I'm here - working on a list, but I don't want to half-ass it.

[Glooble]

Blagh. I don't want to no lynch, but right now I can't think of anyone I actually want to lynch. mcmc is probably the person I'm mostly likely to vote for right now, but my read on him is pretty null.

I will not put my name to a shraeye lynch. It feels too reactive and way too obvious. I really don't think scum shraeye would be so sure of himself as he pushed for a lynch. When you drive a wagon as hard as that, you're taking a huge risk that the heat is going to fall on you if you're wrong, and that's a risk town is much more likely to take than scum. It just doesn't add up for me.

[ashersky]

I will not put my name to a shraeye lynch. It feels too reactive and way too obvious. I really don't think scum shraeye would be so sure of himself as he pushed for a lynch. When you drive a wagon as hard as that, you're taking a huge risk that the heat is going to fall on you if you're wrong, and that's a risk town is much more likely to take than scum. It just doesn't add up for me.

This reasoning is good.  We should push for a separate lynch and see where we go.  Mcmc is the most likely candidate, with I think everyone but Robz supporting or okay with it.

vote: mcmcsalot

[ashersky]

Also, that's L-2 on mcmc.